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    Capitalism and Community

    Over the last couple of decades, greed and capitalism have been destroying community. Partly by the taking of excess profits, and partly by monetizing everything possible. A big part of it is the reduction in tax rates for the extremely wealthy. Without the redistribution of wealth through taxes, too many essentials go unfunded. Another aspect is the huge inequity in wealth, with 1/10th of 1 percent holding 95 percent of the wealth. Then there is the definition of 'wealth'. Numbers in bank computers are considered 'wealth', but they don't actually have value. Not like houses, bridges, schools, water systems, electrical grids, etc.

    I am sure that others can point out examples of capitalism destroying community, but what I am interested in is describing a way to stop the destruction. For instance, bringing some manufacturing jobs back to where they used to be done. The higher levels of pay created demand for services that gave many people a livelihood. House cleaner, nanny, cook, gardener, many semi- and unskilled jobs resulted from people making good money and wanting to spend their time doing things other than taking care of their house and yard.

    For the most part, jobs were off-shored because that allowed higher profits to be taken. Having someone in China assemble your product was still cheaper after all the shipping than having someone in the U.S. assemble it. The drive for ever higher profit disregards the consequences of taking well-paying jobs away from people. We have also seen the quality of products diminish because of the use of inferior materials, poor design, and sloppy assembly. One of the most common things I encounter is the 'snap together' item, which cannot be taken apart without breaking it. This is acceptable for inexpensive items, but when the price is substantial, I expect that the item should be repairable.

    Another example is the reduction in the amount of room at the top of a bottle of water, juice, or some other product. In order to save 1/100th of a penny per bottle, the distributors have reduced the free space in the container by decreasing the room from the top of the contents to the top of the container. Squeeze the container to open it, and you end up wearing the contents. Okay, that is not going to destroy the community in and of itself, but it is another straw to put on the camel's back.

    And capitalism is based on consumption, which is what is creating the problems with the environment. Reducing consumption reduces the profits to be made, so there is a lot of resistance to reducing consumption. To really be able to reduce the production of greenhouse gases, people need to leave their cars and trucks at home and use mass transit, ride a bicycle, carpool, or walk. But those alternatives will put a lot of people who make cars out of work, so we get electric vehicles, which are touted as being more 'environmentally sound'. They are heavier, so need more energy to move around, and require exotic materials to make the batteries with. Electric vehicles are a way to go on consuming while pretending to be conserving.

    Fossil fuels contain absurd amounts of energy per given unit of measure. Nothing I know of equals fossil fuels in energy density. So switching automobiles to electricity means generating huge amounts of energy somehow. The average vehicle today has a powerplant that is rated in the range of 150 to 200 kilowatts. Even though electric vehicles are more efficient, that is still a lot of energy to come up with. Multiply that by the millions of vehicles on the road, and our current generating capacity is nowhere near what is needed. And this increase in electrical energy will require a grid that is several times more robust than our current arrangements. But no one is going to get up in front of the crowd and tell them that to save themselves they will have to stop driving.

    So what do we do?
    When Yes is the answer, anything is possible.

    #2
    Wear an extra jumper when it's cold. Use candles. Consume roadkill. Walk. Learn oral history around campfires. Wonder at the stars above. Be human.

    The upcomin' decades will see huge climate impacts not only in poor countries but also in places like Texas and the Southern states. Migration to states like Michigan and Wisconsin predicted to be biblical.

    Down here the coast is the only place for large populations anyway. Desalination plants will provide freshwater whilst wind farms and solar panels will provide batteries like Musk's one in South Australia to provide base load energy. Alongside Fortescue Metal's owned by Andrew Twiggy Forrest green hydrogen will power steel and concrete industries and mass heavy transit. And Australia has vast supplies of rare Earth metals. We lack manufacturin' capability which must be addressed.

    As for community. That starts with fair transparent governance and the will of people to commit to a higher purpose. Now since the Pandemic, we have a clearer picture as to which countries have a likelier chance to succeed.

    As for community. That comes down to you, your neighbors and the things that bind you. As for capitalism the profit motive is the engine. But bosses and landlords need to be regulated as bosses and landlords can not be trusted to be good and moral. They need to be taxed effectively. Don't hold them back but don't leave anyone behind. That is how a strong community develops.
    Last edited by Gilly Goodness; 09-24-2022, 01:48 AM.

    Comment


      #3
      I always appreciate your threads and posts, scootwhoman. Glad to see you here, once again.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Gilly Goodness View Post
        Wear an extra jumper when it's cold. Use candles. Consume roadkill. Walk. Learn oral history around campfires. Wonder at the stars above. Be human.

        The upcomin' decades will see huge climate impacts not only in poor countries but also in places like Texas and the Southern states. Migration to states like Michigan and Wisconsin predicted to be biblical.

        Down here the coast is the only place for large populations anyway. Desalination plants will provide freshwater whilst wind farms and solar panels will provide batteries like Musk's one in South Australia to provide base load energy. Alongside Fortescue Metal's owned by Andrew Twiggy Forrest green hydrogen will power steel and concrete industries and mass heavy transit. And Australia has vast supplies of rare Earth metals. We lack manufacturin' capability which must be addressed.

        As for community. That starts with fair transparent governance and the will of people to commit to a higher purpose. Now since the Pandemic, we have a clearer picture as to which countries have a likelier chance to succeed.

        As for community. That comes down to you, your neighbors and the things that bind you. As for capitalism the profit motive is the engine. But bosses and landlords need to be regulated as bosses and landlords can not be trusted to be good and moral. They need to be taxed effectively. Don't hold them back but don't leave anyone behind. That is how a strong community develops.
        The cost of desalination plants is exorbitant beyond comprehension. The migration from California to Texas is at all time highs. The migration from New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania to Florida and other Southern states is at all time highs

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by scootwhoman View Post
          Over the last couple of decades, greed and capitalism have been destroying community. Partly by the taking of excess profits, and partly by monetizing everything possible. A big part of it is the reduction in tax rates for the extremely wealthy. Without the redistribution of wealth through taxes, too many essentials go unfunded. Another aspect is the huge inequity in wealth, with 1/10th of 1 percent holding 95 percent of the wealth. Then there is the definition of 'wealth'. Numbers in bank computers are considered 'wealth', but they don't actually have value. Not like houses, bridges, schools, water systems, electrical grids, etc.

          I am sure that others can point out examples of capitalism destroying community, but what I am interested in is describing a way to stop the destruction. For instance, bringing some manufacturing jobs back to where they used to be done. The higher levels of pay created demand for services that gave many people a livelihood. House cleaner, nanny, cook, gardener, many semi- and unskilled jobs resulted from people making good money and wanting to spend their time doing things other than taking care of their house and yard.

          For the most part, jobs were off-shored because that allowed higher profits to be taken. Having someone in China assemble your product was still cheaper after all the shipping than having someone in the U.S. assemble it. The drive for ever higher profit disregards the consequences of taking well-paying jobs away from people. We have also seen the quality of products diminish because of the use of inferior materials, poor design, and sloppy assembly. One of the most common things I encounter is the 'snap together' item, which cannot be taken apart without breaking it. This is acceptable for inexpensive items, but when the price is substantial, I expect that the item should be repairable.

          Another example is the reduction in the amount of room at the top of a bottle of water, juice, or some other product. In order to save 1/100th of a penny per bottle, the distributors have reduced the free space in the container by decreasing the room from the top of the contents to the top of the container. Squeeze the container to open it, and you end up wearing the contents. Okay, that is not going to destroy the community in and of itself, but it is another straw to put on the camel's back.

          And capitalism is based on consumption, which is what is creating the problems with the environment. Reducing consumption reduces the profits to be made, so there is a lot of resistance to reducing consumption. To really be able to reduce the production of greenhouse gases, people need to leave their cars and trucks at home and use mass transit, ride a bicycle, carpool, or walk. But those alternatives will put a lot of people who make cars out of work, so we get electric vehicles, which are touted as being more 'environmentally sound'. They are heavier, so need more energy to move around, and require exotic materials to make the batteries with. Electric vehicles are a way to go on consuming while pretending to be conserving.

          Fossil fuels contain absurd amounts of energy per given unit of measure. Nothing I know of equals fossil fuels in energy density. So switching automobiles to electricity means generating huge amounts of energy somehow. The average vehicle today has a powerplant that is rated in the range of 150 to 200 kilowatts. Even though electric vehicles are more efficient, that is still a lot of energy to come up with. Multiply that by the millions of vehicles on the road, and our current generating capacity is nowhere near what is needed. And this increase in electrical energy will require a grid that is several times more robust than our current arrangements. But no one is going to get up in front of the crowd and tell them that to save themselves they will have to stop driving.

          So what do we do?
          You are confusing Capitalism and Globalism. Capitalism creates competition whereby the most efficient and the highest productivity businesses succeed while keeping prices at competitive levels for the consumer.

          The most successful businesses today are the ones that are employee owned. They give the janitor a piece of the action. By giving everyone a stake in the business you develop loyalty and a sense of everyone must do their job to keep the wheels greased.

          The Globalists are the enemy of the people. The Walmarts who buy their goods from China because Globalists like the Clinton's SOLD OUT America in the 1990's with NAFTA and other bad trade agreements. Walmart treats their employees like Chinese coolies were treated 150 years ago.

          The Clinton's and others like them naively believed in this Utopian world where everyone will trade fairly and everyone will get along. The Clinton's and their kind are fools and idiots. The Chinese have laughed at us as they have manipulated their currency for decades to keep trade unfairly under their control.

          All this wonderful solar and green this and that is wonderful but how will you pay for it? Millions are homeless sleeping against abandoned city buildings. The United States is bankrupt with 31 trillion in debt.

          The average Joe is worried about feeding his family, paying the rent or mortgage and figuring out how in the world his children can afford college. This green this and that and high priced electric cars are not even thought of by the regular Joe.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by scootwhoman View Post
            Over the last couple of decades, greed and capitalism have been destroying community. Partly by the taking of excess profits, and partly by monetizing everything possible. A big part of it is the reduction in tax rates for the extremely wealthy. Without the redistribution of wealth through taxes, too many essentials go unfunded. Another aspect is the huge inequity in wealth, with 1/10th of 1 percent holding 95 percent of the wealth. Then there is the definition of 'wealth'. Numbers in bank computers are considered 'wealth', but they don't actually have value. Not like houses, bridges, schools, water systems, electrical grids, etc.

            I am sure that others can point out examples of capitalism destroying community, but what I am interested in is describing a way to stop the destruction. For instance, bringing some manufacturing jobs back to where they used to be done. The higher levels of pay created demand for services that gave many people a livelihood. House cleaner, nanny, cook, gardener, many semi- and unskilled jobs resulted from people making good money and wanting to spend their time doing things other than taking care of their house and yard.

            For the most part, jobs were off-shored because that allowed higher profits to be taken. Having someone in China assemble your product was still cheaper after all the shipping than having someone in the U.S. assemble it. The drive for ever higher profit disregards the consequences of taking well-paying jobs away from people. We have also seen the quality of products diminish because of the use of inferior materials, poor design, and sloppy assembly. One of the most common things I encounter is the 'snap together' item, which cannot be taken apart without breaking it. This is acceptable for inexpensive items, but when the price is substantial, I expect that the item should be repairable.

            Another example is the reduction in the amount of room at the top of a bottle of water, juice, or some other product. In order to save 1/100th of a penny per bottle, the distributors have reduced the free space in the container by decreasing the room from the top of the contents to the top of the container. Squeeze the container to open it, and you end up wearing the contents. Okay, that is not going to destroy the community in and of itself, but it is another straw to put on the camel's back.

            And capitalism is based on consumption, which is what is creating the problems with the environment. Reducing consumption reduces the profits to be made, so there is a lot of resistance to reducing consumption. To really be able to reduce the production of greenhouse gases, people need to leave their cars and trucks at home and use mass transit, ride a bicycle, carpool, or walk. But those alternatives will put a lot of people who make cars out of work, so we get electric vehicles, which are touted as being more 'environmentally sound'. They are heavier, so need more energy to move around, and require exotic materials to make the batteries with. Electric vehicles are a way to go on consuming while pretending to be conserving.

            Fossil fuels contain absurd amounts of energy per given unit of measure. Nothing I know of equals fossil fuels in energy density. So switching automobiles to electricity means generating huge amounts of energy somehow. The average vehicle today has a powerplant that is rated in the range of 150 to 200 kilowatts. Even though electric vehicles are more efficient, that is still a lot of energy to come up with. Multiply that by the millions of vehicles on the road, and our current generating capacity is nowhere near what is needed. And this increase in electrical energy will require a grid that is several times more robust than our current arrangements. But no one is going to get up in front of the crowd and tell them that to save themselves they will have to stop driving.

            So what do we do?
            I think making things in America again is a great idea. We are a materialistic, throwaway society for the most part. We would respect our uses of raw materials more, and benefit the cycle of supply and demand within our own country. Global trade is an important piece of that, but the wholesale sell off to slave labor production makes me sick.
            I renovate older houses and are always amazed at the smaller storage, closet space designated in them. People had/needed less stuff. Their lives were less cluttered, and confused.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Yesed View Post

              I think making things in America again is a great idea. We are a materialistic, throwaway society for the most part. We would respect our uses of raw materials more, and benefit the cycle of supply and demand within our own country. Global trade is an important piece of that, but the wholesale sell off to slave labor production makes me sick.
              I renovate older houses and are always amazed at the smaller storage, closet space designated in them. People had/needed less stuff. Their lives were less cluttered, and confused.
              Yes. I live in 2 states. California and Oregon depending on the time of year and the health of various family members.

              My girlfriend and I have 2 small houses. Both renovated. Both 1000 sq ft. with a garage. We do not even use 1 bedroom . A far cry from the monstrosity I lived in years ago..

              You simplify your life and it is alot easier. Amazing how few things you really need. And it is easy to clean. Wood floors! Healthy!

              Comment


                #8
                "You are confusing Capitalism and Globalism. Capitalism creates competition whereby the most efficient and the highest productivity businesses succeed while keeping prices at competitive levels for the consumer."

                This is the myth of Capitalism. What actually happens is the price goes up, and the supplier gets less and less each time because the sellers and packagers want more. Capitalism simply doesn't work becuase it doesn't look after people. When people can't afford to heat their homes, buy food, let alone alone eat or drink out, a nation is fucked. Britain at the moment is in this state: the new Conservative Government have put new taxes in place which supposedly mean we all get more money, but in actual fact those who earn £100K+ will get vast amounts more, whilst those who earn the least might get an extra £5 a month, if that.

                Trickle down economics doesn't work. We don't need (for example) 20 companies making baked beans and having a price war, we just need [or not] tins of baked beans.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by madbear View Post
                  "You are confusing Capitalism and Globalism. Capitalism creates competition whereby the most efficient and the highest productivity businesses succeed while keeping prices at competitive levels for the consumer."

                  This is the myth of Capitalism. What actually happens is the price goes up, and the supplier gets less and less each time because the sellers and packagers want more. Capitalism simply doesn't work becuase it doesn't look after people. When people can't afford to heat their homes, buy food, let alone alone eat or drink out, a nation is fucked. Britain at the moment is in this state: the new Conservative Government have put new taxes in place which supposedly mean we all get more money, but in actual fact those who earn £100K+ will get vast amounts more, whilst those who earn the least might get an extra £5 a month, if that.

                  Trickle down economics doesn't work. We don't need (for example) 20 companies making baked beans and having a price war, we just need [or not] tins of baked beans.
                  Wow, your post made no sense on a couple of levels, regarding capitalist system. The baked beans example is one, we do want much output on the competitive level to benefit the consumer. No pun intended on the output reference.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Beans means Heinz.

                    Exclusively. No other correspondence will be entered into.


                    Click image for larger version

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Size:	38.3 KB
ID:	27001
                    Last edited by Gilly Goodness; 09-24-2022, 10:20 PM.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Not sure what this has to do with Yes
                      i’d thought this site was moving away from political discussions ?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Yesed View Post

                        Wow, your post made no sense on a couple of levels, regarding capitalist system. The baked beans example is one, we do want much output on the competitive level to benefit the consumer. No pun intended on the output reference.
                        Yes. Mr. Bear makes no sense at all. Inflation or prices going up is too much money chasing too few goods. You look at the $ in circulation now vs. 50 years ago. The more you print the less value it becomes. Government intervention in a free market economy never has worked.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by True View Post
                          Not sure what this has to do with Yes
                          i’d thought this site was moving away from political discussions ?
                          We are talking economics not politics. The party comrades do not like trading ideas and thoughts that deviate from THE PARTY line

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Gilly Goodness View Post
                            Beans means Heinz.

                            Exclusively. No other correspondence will be entered into.


                            Click image for larger version

Name:	images.jpeg-254.jpg
Views:	181
Size:	38.3 KB
ID:	27001
                            HP, HP, they're the beans for me... [etc]

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by alex peters View Post

                              Yes. Mr. Bear makes no sense at all. Inflation or prices going up is too much money chasing too few goods. You look at the $ in circulation now vs. 50 years ago. The more you print the less value it becomes. Government intervention in a free market economy never has worked.
                              I didn't mention government intervention or printing money. I simply said that capitalism forces prices up and creates inflation, and that we need a system where we simply produce what we [all] need. We live in a capitalist society that suggests we all need to buy, buy, buy and consume. We don't.

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