Universities finally pushing back

[rePete]

It's about time.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/26/opinions/harvard-stanford-cornell-woke-right-avlon/index.html

[Enlighten]

It's about time.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/26/opini...lon/index.html

Amen, Pete. Thank you for posting this. I knew about the event at Stanford, I hadn’t heard about what had gone down at Cornell.

I have a number of teachers as clients and so many of them have felt handcuffed and silenced by the students that they teach. A lot of these students have been coddled into thinking that they aren’t responsible for their own reactions. If anything or anyone makes them feel uncomfortable in any way, it has nothing to do with them and their own inner response. It’s like disempowerment has become the new empowerment. Some of us in the Gen X and Baby Boomer generations have been complicit in co-creating this dynamic with the millennials and Gen Z’s. We wanted to “give our kids everything”, we wanted to always be there for them, we didn’t want to be like our parents who could sometimes have the “it’s my way of the highway” mentality. We wanted our kids to know that we were always there for them and that their needs came first. And the real kicker is, if we’re being honest, we wanted to know that they loved us and that we were lovable and sometimes we did all that extra to “make sure” we were loved by them. This is simplistic, of course, there are a lot of other variables that figure into what we’ve created but I see it played out so many times in my work as a therapist.

[rePete]

Amen, Pete. Thank you for posting this. I knew about the event at Stanford, I hadn’t heard about what had gone down at Cornell.

I have a number of teachers as clients and so many of them have felt handcuffed and silenced by the students that they teach. A lot of these students have been coddled into thinking that they aren’t responsible for their own reactions. If anything or anyone makes them feel uncomfortable in any way, it has nothing to do with them and their own inner response. It’s like disempowerment has become the new empowerment. Some of us in the Gen X and Baby Boomer generations have been complicit in co-creating this dynamic with the millennials and Gen Z’s. We wanted to “give our kids everything”, we wanted to always be there for them, we didn’t want to be like our parents who could sometimes have the “it’s my way of the highway” mentality. We wanted our kids to know that we were always there for them and that their needs came first. And the real kicker is, if we’re being honest, we wanted to know that they loved us and that we were lovable and sometimes we did all that extra to “make sure” we were loved by them. This is simplistic, of course, there are a lot of other variables that figure into what we’ve created but I see it played out so many times in my work as a therapist.

Beautifully put, Jay.

The thing is, it's a huge, crippling disservice to students (and adults!) to teach them that they don't have to see anything that might upset them, be exposed to points of view that differ from their own, or that the world owes them safe spaces. When they leave the campus bubble, they're not nearly as likely to be able to manage, let alone flourish, in life. The private sector in particular will chew them up and spit them out more often than not if they're ill equipped in this way.

Teach people critical thinking and analysis. Teach them to reach for more than the McNuggets when they're trying to understand an issue. Teach them how to present their own ideas respectfully but with confidence and clarity. Teach them that having rights comes with great personal and societal responsibility, and that no rights are absolute. One of those responsibilities is the ability to accept the existence (if not adopt) differing points of view - especially in a pluralist society. There is value in understanding that multiple points of view are valid. It's how we push forward, grow and mature.

But don't hamstring them with an inability to manage in a world that could care less they they get triggered over different points of view. It (ill)-equips them with weakness before they've even gotten started.

[madbear]

Interesting... liberal values being espoused, yet the right wing objects to liberals and the left. People can [and do] say what they want, but they have to face the consequences, which may be being shouted down for being sexist, homophobic, racist or supporting violence. When it's the same warmongering, racist, patriarchal, neoliberal economic shit being espoused it is not an 'alternative' view, it is outdated and offensive. If freedom to control your own body, love life, sexuality, gender, belief or unbelief is not a given right then the so called West is in trouble. Surely, it's pretty much established now that slavery is wrong? Racism is wrong? Are they not givens in a civilised world?

I'm a university lecturer (in England not America) and there is a myth about 'snowflakes' and a lack of thinking. At the moment we have a huge mental health problem on the back of covid, not a problem with student learning. It's also been established that trigger warnings have any positive effect, so we do not use them; we have started asking studnets to use a tutorial to discuss concerns they may have about specific issues. Very few students do so. But it is fair enough to question what now seems out of date, sexist or colonial – to contextualise and debate work, without necessarily justifying it.

It's not about being 'triggered by different points of view', it's a much deeper question of why the usual suspects (usually male, usually rich, usually white, often old) are given a platform for their old-fashioned reactionary views.

I am sure others have cut-off points, issues they are concerned with, and many countries have laws in place to do with hate crimes, holocaust denial, incitement to racial hatred etc. This is about making society work.

[madbear]

And of course, the real problem is that universities have been forced to become businesses, with students as customers... so any idea of time to study and think is now replaced by bullshit about degrees facilitating jobs, student satisfaction etc. Rather than places to learn to think, research and process information and ideas.

[downbyariver]

When I read the subject line, I suppose I was hoping for pushback against DeSantis' educational policies.

Angry at DeSantis, Fla. Students Take to the Streets — and Take a Banned Lesson

1 in 8 prospective freshman won’t attend college in Florida, cite DeSantis education policies

‘Hostile takeover’: the tiny Florida university targeted by Ron DeSantis

[Enlighten]

Beautifully put, Jay.

The thing is, it's a huge, crippling disservice to students (and adults!) to teach them that they don't have to see anything that might upset them, be exposed to points of view that differ from their own, or that the world owes them safe spaces. When they leave the campus bubble, they're not nearly as likely to be able to manage, let alone flourish, in life. The private sector in particular will chew them up and spit them out more often than not if they're ill equipped in this way.

Teach people critical thinking and analysis. Teach them to reach for more than the McNuggets when they're trying to understand an issue. Teach them how to present their own ideas respectfully but with confidence and clarity. Teach them that having rights comes with great personal and societal responsibility, and that no rights are absolute. One of those responsibilities is the ability to accept the existence (if not adopt) differing points of view - especially in a pluralist society. There is value in understanding that multiple points of view are valid. It's how we push forward, grow and mature.

But don't hamstring them with an inability to manage in a world that could care less they they get triggered over different points of view. It (ill)-equips them with weakness before they've even gotten started.

Pete, I couldn’t agree more.

I’d add one other thing. I taught at a university for a number of years and one of the things that I noticed was that a lot of the academics that taught there, lived from their neck up. Some of them literally had no heart intelligence. That inability to have empathy and compassion and the over abundance of mental muscle, left me cold. It had a direct impact on these kids. There has to be a more full spectrum approach to cultivating all levels of intelligence, not just head intelligence. Without empathy, without compassion, there is no willingness to understand other perspectives and viewpoints.

[Soulsearcher]

It's about time.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/26/opini...lon/index.html

it's good to see this.. it is just egregious to stop free speech. There are a lot of things i don't agree with but I don't stop anyone from saying them, even if i dont like it. I can disagree, and they can disagree with me. Once opinions are stifled as well as warnings out on opinions, we're doomed

[pianozach]

When I read the subject line, I suppose I was hoping for pushback against DeSantis' educational policies.

Angry at DeSantis, Fla. Students Take to the Streets — and Take a Banned Lesson

1 in 8 prospective freshman won’t attend college in Florida, cite DeSantis education policies

‘Hostile takeover’: the tiny Florida university targeted by Ron DeSantis

Thank you.

Universities SHOULD be bastions of "wokeness".

But the first few posts in this thread a couple of Yesfans members throw around the word "Woke" like it's a "bad thing". I cannot fathom how some folks think being "woke" is some sort of evil agenda.

To be 'Woke" politically in the Black community means that someone is informed, educated and conscious of social injustice and racial inequality. The word has evolved to include being aware of injustices against women, LGBTQ+, minorities, and religions, especially those that are systemic within government systems.

The problem is that the word itself has become weaponized. The problem when you hear “woke” today, at least from Fox News, DeSantis ("We reject woke ideology,"), Trump or the rest of the fringey Right Wing, they see it as some kind of socialist agenda, at least that’s their perspective. And so, anything they deem incorrect is considered woke. When they say somebody is “woke” and they are just using it as a weapon, they’re not really taking into consideration a person’s expertise and knowledge of a particular issue.

Celebrating universities "pushing back" against "woke" is buying into the rhetoric and divisiveness, the bigotry and racism, the misogyny and xenophobia, the homophobia and anti-intellectualism. It means that you are fine with a Governor, such as DeSantis, erasing race-related content in education, and limiting discussion and curriculum on race, systemic oppression, gender and sexual orientation.

It's quite ironic that DeSantis can spout thinly-veiled racism like, "What you see now with the rise of this woke ideology is an attempt to really delegitimize our history and to delegitimize our institutions . . . " when he takes steps to insure the erasure of 'wokism', that he is actually doing exactly that - attempting to delegitimize our history and institutions.

[Enlighten]

Thank you.

Universities SHOULD be bastions of "wokeness".

But the first few posts in this thread a couple of Yesfans members throw around the word "Woke" like it's a "bad thing". I cannot fathom how some folks think being "woke" is some sort of evil agenda.

To be 'Woke" politically in the Black community means that someone is informed, educated and conscious of social injustice and racial inequality. The word has evolved to include being aware of injustices against women, LGBTQ+, minorities, and religions, especially those that are systemic within government systems.

The problem is that the word itself has become weaponized. The problem when you hear “woke” today, at least from Fox News, DeSantis ("We reject woke ideology,"), Trump or the rest of the fringey Right Wing, they see it as some kind of socialist agenda, at least that’s their perspective. And so, anything they deem incorrect is considered woke. When they say somebody is “woke” and they are just using it as a weapon, they’re not really taking into consideration a person’s expertise and knowledge of a particular issue.

Celebrating universities "pushing back" against "woke" is buying into the rhetoric and divisiveness, the bigotry and racism, the misogyny and xenophobia, the homophobia and anti-intellectualism. It means that you are fine with a Governor, such as DeSantis, erasing race-related content in education, and limiting discussion and curriculum on race, systemic oppression, gender and sexual orientation.

It's quite ironic that DeSantis can spout thinly-veiled racism like, "What you see now with the rise of this woke ideology is an attempt to really delegitimize our history and to delegitimize our institutions . . . " when he takes steps to insure the erasure of 'wokism', that he is actually doing exactly that - attempting to delegitimize our history and institutions.

Evidently, you didn’t read those first few posts. Pete nor I used the term “woke” once. Intolerance can flow from many directions. The article that Pete cited was from CNN and it gave account of two instances, from two liberal colleges (Stanford and Cornell) of administrators pushing back on that intolerance. The article calls out both dysregulated sides of the political spectrum and offers a much more balanced view.

[josuev80]

This certainly counts as political news.

[Somis Sound]

This is great. Now if teachers would just start teaching without political bias, there might be hope for the US.... Sort of like the main stream media, report the news not your political commentary from either side...

BTW, this is a cool thread with a mostly decent discussion. How long till someone comes in and starts acting like an unhinged nut?

[pianozach]

Evidently, you didn’t read those first few posts. Pete nor I used the term “woke” once. Intolerance can flow from many directions. The article that Pete cited was from CNN and it gave account of two instances, from two liberal colleges (Stanford and Cornell) of administrators pushing back on that intolerance. The article calls out both dysregulated sides of the political spectrum and offers a much more balanced view.

Don't be silly. It's RIGHT THERE after the first three words, which refer to the link, which begins . . . : "The welcome pushback against campus wokeness . . . "

[Enlighten]

Don't be silly. It's RIGHT THERE after the first three words, which refer to the link, which begins . . . : "The welcome pushback against campus wokeness . . . "

You’re yelling, my friend. Be accountable for your own words. You said this: “But the first few posts in this thread a couple of Yesfans members throw around the word "Woke" like it's a "bad thing". I cannot fathom how some folks think being "woke" is some sort of evil agenda.”

You're saying Pete and I were throwing around the term “woke”. We did not. You’re in a stammer over the article itself, did you actually read it?

[Yesed]

When an attempt to have rational, intellectual discourse on most issues, social, ethic and geographical, in institutions of higher learning there is always, as of late, one group of political persuasion getting shouted down and canceled, and the other consistently doing the canceling. Not being political just a disturbing observation.
To the point of the original post, healthy education requires objective, open discussion in a respectful search for truth.