Why do so many Yes fans seem to hate Asia?

[Kevin W]

I enjoyed the first album, got the next two on vinyl but spent years not listening to them and generally following the majority view that the band was a waste of prog talent. Finally I matured and decided to listen to them again on the basis of only expecting what they set out to be from the start - a rock-pop band with a bit of progressive overtones and guess what? I enjoyed listening to their music again after years of ignoring it! Went on to collect all of the Payne-era albums which I enjoy as well. Just have to be in the right mood for them. If I want to listen to progressive stuff I can put Tales, CTTE or Relayer on. But if I am in the mood for something lighter, then some Asia sometimes fits the bill very well.

[Ash Armstrong]

I think it was clear from the outset that they were steering towards commercial success in North America, filling arenas, getting radio airplay, etc. Those media and concert outlets existed in abundance across that continent, but not over here in the UK, where they all came from.
That perhaps they sought to emulate the success and musical stylisations of US generic soundalike arena bands like Styx, Boston, Journey, Kansas, Toto, and who knows how many other bands who named themselves after their city of origin, or named themselves trying to sound deep and mystical and too clever by half, is one reason why I never took to their music at all.
There's no 'hate' involved, however; disappointment, yes, indifference, certainly: a measure of despondency at knowing where these musicians had come from and previously achieved in the realm of sonic design and musical architecture, compared to what they seemingly preferred to pursue under the Asia banner? Absolutely.
Is that comparable to what happened with other former member of Yes in that decade? Undoubtedly.
Entirely a personal view of course, nothing more, and of no intrinsic consequence, but when music-makers I'd hitherto followed keenly, and whose music I'd enjoyed enormously, shift their craft to making music I don't care for in the slightest, I tend to stop listening. Life's too brief to squander it in those ways.

[PhaseDance]

The consensus in the responses is that there isn't really hate for Asia. It's indifference at worst, so the whole premise here is false.

Anyway, I have a real nostalgic soft spot for the debut album. Catchy rock pop, with some interesting instrumental interludes from everyone tucked away in the tracks. Not prog, but still worthwhile.

By Alpha, John was doing all the backing vocals himself so it didn't sound as "full". I like John's voice but using multiple backing voices beefs up the sound better and adds depth. Think about how rich it sounds to have McCartney+Lennon+Harrison harmonising backing vocals together as opposed to just one of them doing overdubbed harmonies. Also, Steve's guitar was getting increasingly buried in the mix, and the production sounded less aggressive than the first album. Possibly too many synths and not enough guitars? I don't know, but it sounded toothless. I like a few of the tracks (Eye to Eye, Midnight Sun), but it's a weaker collection than the debut.

By Astra, they lost Steve, so they lost me too for the most part.

I still like the first album, although I rarely think to play it.

[luvyesmusic]

'Progitis' is something that strikes many fans of Yes and other similar bands, and symptoms include disdain for what may be considered 'pop' or 'commercial/sell-out' and toxic attitudes towards such music and bands that perform songs that may be shorter, simpler or accessible/hits. I went through a short spell of this, when things like Asia and 80's Genesis were considered 'pop crud' or 'not REAL music', but fortunately my taste buds healed, and my symptoms went away.

Seriously, I did not know Asia were made up of members from three bands I dug at first. When I saw the names attached, I gave it a more honest listen. Listening to the debut album at the beach was a good experience. True, Alpha was a little less involved but still had a large rock sound. Astra was the newest Asia album at the time I started giving them a listen, and was surprised that Voice Of America and Rock & Roll Dream didn't become big anthems. When Asia returned in the 90's with John Payne, I gave them a chance and remained on board when most fans bailed. Asia themselves have disowned this chapter in their career, but you can't really airbrush out a 15 year period with 8 studio albums, but that's another topic. Asia has become one of my top favorite bands and I still drag them to the beach. Orangey summer skies go with those Geoff Downes synth textures.

I can understand why some prog fans saw the line-up when the 1st album came out and expected something like UK or Yes with Carl Palmer on drums, thus felt deceived. Many viewed them as a band trying to fit in with the AOR/Journey/Styx/Boston kinda sound. To me, it sounds like a continuation of the electric Drama Yes sound, or at least the debut does. Even the Dean artwork: the shore on the cover of Drama - you follow that shoreline to the East and you'll probably come to that wider part of the water where that friggin' dragon is splashing around, playing with a giant silver pinball. Other than the first two or three radio hit, which are cool as well, you'll hear a pretty proggy album. Time Again sounds like ELP with special guest Steve Howe, Cutting It Fine is actually two songs, ending with a grand synth-classical composition, and Without You - possibly the best track on the album - is just grand. And emotional. Nothing Journey or Toto about that first album. It's engaging. You want to hear a former progressive band doing a bad pop album? Try Canadian band FM's 1987 album 'Tonight' which includes a lame-for-the-ages cover of Good Vibrations. Once you hear that, you'll direct your venom away from Asia in a heartbeat.

There's nothing to hate with Asia. They really should be taken seriously as a legacy band with a history of ups and downs, line-up changes, direction changes, and 15 studio albums filled with good playing, catchy songs and strong harmony vocals. Anyone who reads a rock magazine, you get the same narrative all the time about Asia. People are generally just told not to like Asia. They may not be for everyone, but they're solid to me. Some albums are better than others, but that's true with any band, including the ones we feel can do no wrong. But count me in for Team Asia.

Too good to be a great post, do I will say fantastic! Thanks for taking the time to write your thoughts. I am right there with you.

[Soundwaveseeker]

Thanks. To those who dislike or are indifferent with Asia: I love 'em, but I won't say the band was without its faults either. By the 2006-2014 reunion, Wetton indeed was doing most of those backing vocals and there are spots where the lines between Asia and Icon/Wetton solo indeed blur a little. Don't want to hear too much vocals from Steve in Yes, but he stopped doing them for Asia which they needed to sound more 'full'. In Yes, well you had Chris or have Billy for that, but Asia needed his backing vocals a little more. And on albums like Phoenix and Gravitas, the drumming was a little 'wimpy' in places and kinda low in the mix, I must add. This is supposed to be Carl Palmer. That was definitely NOT the case with that first album or even Alpha, no matter if they were chasing after MTV or American radio hits or whatever. Those drums are there in spades, even if it's 4 or 5 minutes of it instead of 12. And I'm sure there is a lot of indifference to the John Payne era of Asia - but I kinda respected them in that era, they knew they were floundering in obscurity('Asia'? You mean they're still around? I thought they split up after 'Don't cry' I would hear). Yet they staggered forward, because the need to create music was apparently too great for them. 'Aura' from 2001 is a pretty good representation of that era - Steve Howe guests on 2 songs.

I'm sure the band's original line-up is a major factor in how people feel about Asia whether they like, love, hate or are indifferent to it. I wonder: if Asia had just come out with that first album featuring musicians Yes fans didn't know, they would probably be seen today as a pretty musical semi-prog/art rock kinda outfit like, say, Saga, with a lengthy discography and various line-ups and eras. Expectation can be a prison.

[Gilly Goodness]

Gotta echo your opinion on AURA. Favourite ASIA album with some of the coolest Howe guitar. Ever recorded. Strong songwriting. Great playing. Listen without prejudice

[josuev80]

Prog snobs who couldn't understand and/or tolerate the concept of the band and its music when they debuted in a vastly different decade from the previous one. Much like YesWest.

[Gilly Goodness]

70's : Progsnobs sit on the ground in rapture

80's : Disco gets everyone back up and dancing.
So prog goes pop and dance-friendly

90's : Grunge loses the glam

00's : Gave up noticing pop culture

10's : ....

20's : The Quest renews the concept of beauty.
( with 3/4 of ASIA if you include Billy ) )

[brianos]

Asia was my favorite band in the early 80s - I was in my early teens, just starting high school. I knew of Yes, but was too young to follow them in their heyday, so when Asia hit the scene their pedigrees were interesting, but didn't set any expectations for me. I just knew I liked the singles & videos I was seeing on MTV. In a lot of ways Asia became my "gateway" to dig deeper into the back catalogues of Yes, ELP, UK, Crimson...

[Gtkgasman]

I think it was clear from the outset that they were steering towards commercial success in North America, filling arenas, getting radio airplay, etc. Those media and concert outlets existed in abundance across that continent, but not over here in the UK, where they all came from.
That perhaps they sought to emulate the success and musical stylisations of US generic soundalike arena bands like Styx, Boston, Journey, Kansas, Toto, and who knows how many other bands who named themselves after their city of origin, or named themselves trying to sound deep and mystical and too clever by half, is one reason why I never took to their music at all.
There's no 'hate' involved, however; disappointment, yes, indifference, certainly: a measure of despondency at knowing where these musicians had come from and previously achieved in the realm of sonic design and musical architecture, compared to what they seemingly preferred to pursue under the Asia banner? Absolutely.
Is that comparable to what happened with other former member of Yes in that decade? Undoubtedly.
Entirely a personal view of course, nothing more, and of no intrinsic consequence, but when music-makers I'd hitherto followed keenly, and whose music I'd enjoyed enormously, shift their craft to making music I don't care for in the slightest, I tend to stop listening. Life's too brief to squander it in those ways.

I gotta totally disagree on Boston - Boston’s first album is a perfect listen. And Kansas.....come on. Journey is good for what it is - I can’t be sitting in a bar and listening to just Prog. World needs some fun, some hooks, some difference.......

We cant agree on everything I suppose. 😉

This thread looks like a little backhanded slap at my continent. 😊. But I can take it. 🇺🇸

As for Asia. Never compared them to yes, kc, elp - just enjoyed them for who they were. Anthems of the time we were in And as I posted in other threads, give me Wetton vocals all day long..........Ride Easy

[Ceasar’s Palace]

I agree with the opinion too commercial, shallow pop. But..... there is an emotional aspect to it for me. Because I became a fan ca 1979. That means that when I started following them real time, the band was slowly falling apart. So when Asia popped up, I really, really, really wanted them to be “the son of Yes.”
So I was probably more sympathetic to the music than I would have been, had there been no Yes connection. And that could be why I do like a few songs on the debut, and still want to see these a Yessy.

[Soundwaveseeker]

Wetton's lead vocals got better and better as he aged. And that was on Asia's watch. Clear as a bell. Listen to his emotional delivery on Orchard Of Mines from Phoenix and the slower/near-acoustic version of I Know How You Feel from XXX(poor title for an album, never call your album X or XXX or XVI any Roman numeral!!). Emotional. He didn't sound like that in King Crimson, as much as I like prog and Crimson. I would say the closest he got to pop or at least Wetton at his most simplified would be Battle Lines and his duo collaboration with Phil Manzanera.

If somebody gets nothing out of Asia or American AOR bands, well I suppose I can respect that, everybody has their own taste. Music is formatted to each individual's DNA. It works individually and some people require different musical nutrients than others. Some people actually like hip hop and gangsta rap. Not my bag of oranges, but to each their own. But surely Kansas can't be lumped in with bland 3-chord alterno-grunge, autotuned dance-pop soundalikes or yawn-inducing moan-strummers with plaid pants. Song For America title track(1975) is like Heart Of The Sunrise. You'd be surprised at some of Kansas' material. Good stuff. Same with Styx, some stuff can be seen as ridiculous, but some of their best is consistent with the quality of Yes music. Equinox through Pieces Of Eight is some fine stuff, that was Styx at peak powers before they started to implode on themselves. So much music out there, so much to either take into our hearts or reject as not being in line with our own taste or expectations. Its all good either way. Rock on, y'all.

[Chris2210]

The first is a finely polished pop rock album - good tunes and great arrangements. Sole Survivor is a good snapshot - the lyrics are absolutely awful - there's bathos presumably without intention. But the guitar! Howe is absolutely on fire. So I'm appreciating the music on a very superficial level. But despite it not being particularly deep in thematic significance there is depth in the music making. Alpha is a bit of a decline in the material, but Midnight Sun is possibly my favourite track from the whole catalogue and I still listen fairly frequently - the closing counterpoint is something I'm just a sucker for and I always wonder with regret if there was much more of that quality from Howe that was removed in the mix - he was still at the very height of his form as purely an electric guitarist. The best ever in my book - so that's always worth having.

I don't really know the material sans Howe - none of it grabbed me much because it began to sound just too generic for my tastes. The comeback albums have decent moments on them, but by XXX Howe was seemingly only present in name and the only thing that stands out from that collection is just how awful Wetton's lyrics are. Just a string of cliches that occasionally are funny for all the wrong reasons [cf Emily]. They never quite reach the heights of accidental hilarity of Syndestructible, but they give it a good old school try.

I really like Wetton's voice and he always sings with real conviction, but his lyric writing is the equivalent of James Cameron's or George Lucas' script writing. While we're at it, I'll throw in Julian Fellowes who I suspect is ghostwritten by a naive 12 year old female relative.

[Gtkgasman]

Not always the best lyrics. Yep, I have to agree on that. BUT, that being said I never seemed to care with Wetton Just me I suppose. Wetton could sing happy birthday and i was good with it. Lol. And I think he did song with great feeling in KC also - Starless is excellent!

[Chris2210]

Orchard of Mines is a great cover- in large part down to Wetton's delivery. No idea what the lyrics mean on that, but as any Yes fan knows, that can be a good thing...