In the Court of the Crimson King movie

[Olorin]

He was kind of cryptic about the future of KC. He never said King Crimson were dead, but he did say that there are no plans to tour and no plans to make a studio album. David Singleton said something along the lines of King Crimson is ongoing, and mentioned the film and other ventures like the Exposure box set as Crimson activity.

I guess it's a thing nowadays just not to say that a group is defunct. If continuing to release archival product means you're still an active group, then we could consider that Rush and R.E.M. are both still around, when that's clearly not the case. I don't know; maybe Singleton thinks product will sell better if it's coming from an extant group versus a defunct one.

He did say that he saw both the Stick Men group and Belew's power trio live and considered them both excellent but when they combined as the Krimson ProjeKct, it made him angry because he could sense the presence of King Crimson - that it was unavailable and absent (his words, I remember). He appears to consider King Crimson a separate entity, regardless of its members. Like Fripp & co are vessels in which the music is brought forth into the world. I guess that is what makes Crimson Crimson - maybe you can't reform KC like you can a Yes or something - the music has to come to and through the players, whichever players are selected to bring it to life.

You know, I always thought that it was cute/quaint/precious in the past when Fripp said things like, when King Crimson music appears, King Crimson will eventually appear to play it. But now it sounds more like he's just nutty. But really, this sounds more like he was just displeased by being on the outside. We can have all sorts of discussions about what is or isn't Yes, but it was always much easier for King Crimson: If Fripp wasn't in it, it wasn't King Crimson. He probably saw the Krimson Project as something that most fans would accept as KC or an alternative KC and he felt like that eroded his status. To me, it's pretty easy: either let them perform the repertoire or not. If you're going to get your back up about it, then don't let them play it.

As for the Champaign-Urbana sessions of 1983: ironic, as that's the same question I would have asked him but didn't. Three Of A Perfect Pair is my favorite Crimson album and nothing Crimson did, or anybody ever did, before or after, sounded like it. They tried to record an album, but it wasn't clicking for them. They produced some fascinating Simmons and flanger-heavy demos of futuristic material which sounded like something from an industrial scrapyard on one of Neptune's moons. I wonder what was the spark that was escaping them in 1983 which they eventually found in 1984. At what point did the material shape into the material on 3OAPP? I for one love the sounds they were producing during that period found on 3OAPP, the Fripp/Summers albums and Desire Caught By The Tail.

It's of interest to me as one of those "if only I'd known/wouldn't it have been cool if" scenarios. In January 1983, King Crimson was recording in a building in downtown Champaign and I was sitting in a classroom a scant mile away, in my final semester at the University of Illinois. At that time, I had the Discipline album and probably Beat also, as well as most of or all of the older albums. But in those days there was no internet (though important parts of it would gestate at the University of Illinois), I didn't subscribe to any music magazines, and the local papers didn't cover anything like King Crimson. if I heard about anything, it was pretty much only by word of mouth. And I don't think I knew anybody then who was into King Crimson. So, I had no idea that Adrian Belew lived in the same town as me, or that King Crimson was here. A few years later when I did know of some of those things (but was living elsewhere myself), I thought maybe KC would play in CU. I had no idea they'd broken up after 3OAPP.

Anyway, it's kind of jaw dropping to me in retrospect. King Crimson/Belew was a local connection that I can be proud of. One of the greatest prog groups of all time, and they almost did an album here, and I was so nearby.... (REO Speedwagon formed here and called Champaign its home town, and was for a while obscenely popular...but we don't have to talk about them....) Now, decades later I read stories and just say, "wow" or "OMG." I remember reading one about the time Belew and Fripp indulged in a food fight in a local restaurant. Bad boy rock stars! I did see a couple of Belew solo shows here, one in 1989 and one in 2002 (as The Bears). Belew may still have been a local resident in 1989 but had definitely moved on by 2002.

I think it'd be cool to go hear Fripp talk, and he is coming to Chicago, but I'm just not comfortable being in a room full of people with Covid still around...too big a risk for me. So thank you so much for the detailed report. I will definitely look forward to getting the bluray when it comes out. I think it's pretty much going to be the swansong for King Crimson (unless that entity suddenly comes to inhabit Fripp again). Who knows, maybe I will spring for the expanded set. It's only $67, which is not bad for 8 discs.

[Soundwaveseeker]

I guess it's a thing nowadays just not to say that a group is defunct. If continuing to release archival product means you're still an active group, then we could consider that Rush and R.E.M. are both still around, when that's clearly not the case. I don't know; maybe Singleton thinks product will sell better if it's coming from an extant group versus a defunct one.



You know, I always thought that it was cute/quaint/precious in the past when Fripp said things like, when King Crimson music appears, King Crimson will eventually appear to play it. But now it sounds more like he's just nutty. But really, this sounds more like he was just displeased by being on the outside. We can have all sorts of discussions about what is or isn't Yes, but it was always much easier for King Crimson: If Fripp wasn't in it, it wasn't King Crimson. He probably saw the Krimson Project as something that most fans would accept as KC or an alternative KC and he felt like that eroded his status. To me, it's pretty easy: either let them perform the repertoire or not. If you're going to get your back up about it, then don't let them play it.



It's of interest to me as one of those "if only I'd known/wouldn't it have been cool if" scenarios. In January 1983, King Crimson was recording in a building in downtown Champaign and I was sitting in a classroom a scant mile away, in my final semester at the University of Illinois. At that time, I had the Discipline album and probably Beat also, as well as most of or all of the older albums. But in those days there was no internet (though important parts of it would gestate at the University of Illinois), I didn't subscribe to any music magazines, and the local papers didn't cover anything like King Crimson. if I heard about anything, it was pretty much only by word of mouth. And I don't think I knew anybody then who was into King Crimson. So, I had no idea that Adrian Belew lived in the same town as me, or that King Crimson was here. A few years later when I did know of some of those things (but was living elsewhere myself), I thought maybe KC would play in CU. I had no idea they'd broken up after 3OAPP.

Anyway, it's kind of jaw dropping to me in retrospect. King Crimson/Belew was a local connection that I can be proud of. One of the greatest prog groups of all time, and they almost did an album here, and I was so nearby.... (REO Speedwagon formed here and called Champaign its home town, and was for a while obscenely popular...but we don't have to talk about them....) Now, decades later I read stories and just say, "wow" or "OMG." I remember reading one about the time Belew and Fripp indulged in a food fight in a local restaurant. Bad boy rock stars! I did see a couple of Belew solo shows here, one in 1989 and one in 2002 (as The Bears). Belew may still have been a local resident in 1989 but had definitely moved on by 2002.

I think it'd be cool to go hear Fripp talk, and he is coming to Chicago, but I'm just not comfortable being in a room full of people with Covid still around...too big a risk for me. So thank you so much for the detailed report. I will definitely look forward to getting the bluray when it comes out. I think it's pretty much going to be the swansong for King Crimson (unless that entity suddenly comes to inhabit Fripp again). Who knows, maybe I will spring for the expanded set. It's only $67, which is not bad for 8 discs.

He was cool about Belew Levin Mastelotto going out to play the material and gave it his blessing and was glad that someone was out there playing it, but he said that King Crimson (the entity, I guess, that he refers to) was missing from their performance. I saw another Fripp interview talking about the same thing and he said the notes were played right but something was missing, the presence of King Crimson was unavailable and absent. I guess he had to be there to make it 'Crimson' enough. But he went on to say that right after seeing that Krimson ProjeKct show he made the decision to return KC to active service with 3 drummers.

Yeah - back then, I didn't know Crimson disbanded after the 3OAPP tour either. I never saw the Sleepless video on MTV, never heard anything about them on the radio. I remember seeing the Three Of A Perfect Pair single at the record store, and the Sleepless dance mix 12" single. I got into them probably a month after that tour ended. I assumed they were going to come back in 1985 or 1986 with a purple, green or orange album. By then I was collecting the solo things like Belew's solo albums, Exposure, etc. in place of any new KC album.

The show wasn't heavily attended, everyone was kinda spread out. It felt sort of semi-Covid safe as far as I could tell (famous last words),definately a low key kind of evening. At first I was on the fence about seeing it, but a friend of mine was keen on it and he's not even as big a Crimso fan as I am. But I suppose Fripp is Fripp, he says things like 'achieve an aim' and 'the drive to 1981' and 'music enters our world' and things like that. Could be cosmic horse flop, but I guess that's what makes him Fripp and I'm sure there is some truth to some of what he's on about.

[Soundwaveseeker]

Nice summary Soundwaveseeker and I'm glad you enjoyed their talk! I've resigned myself to the thought that I'll never see Robert shredding with KC ever again and I'm super thankful we got to see the final friends and family show we were able to get to in Albany which provided nice closure to literally the end of an era. I've also moved past missing Robert and Adrian playing together even though Betsy never got the chance to see them share a stage. Of course Adrian and his trio are still touring which definitely helps fill the gap, and I hear rumors that Tony Levin is getting ready to jump back into Peter Gabriel's touring machine in 2023 which will be great fun indeed if it happens.

I saw the Crimson show in DC last year (the one at the Anthem that resulted in the current 'Music Is Our Friend' live album) and remember Fripp being the last to walk off stage, looking back once before hobbling off into the backstage shadows. I remember thinking that was the last I'd see of Crimson and was ok with it. I think the 3 drummer version of KC went on a bit longer than it should have, though I liked the lineup and didn't mind Jakko as singer and liked that Mel Collins from the Islands lineup was back it - never saw that coming. But I think that incarnation did run its course anyway. If Crimson ever do become a creative and touring entity again, if ever, it would be something different no doubt.

I won't hold my breath for Peter Gabriel, but I'll be there when/if he does go forward with a new album & tour. It's been way too long. I'm ready for a new Peter Gabriel album.

[Yesjim]

I saw the Crimson show in DC last year (the one at the Anthem that resulted in the current 'Music Is Our Friend' live album) and remember Fripp being the last to walk off stage, looking back once before hobbling off into the backstage shadows. I remember thinking that was the last I'd see of Crimson and was ok with it. I think the 3 drummer version of KC went on a bit longer than it should have, though I liked the lineup and didn't mind Jakko as singer and liked that Mel Collins from the Islands lineup was back it - never saw that coming. But I think that incarnation did run its course anyway. If Crimson ever do become a creative and touring entity again, if ever, it would be something different no doubt.

I won't hold my breath for Peter Gabriel, but I'll be there when/if he does go forward with a new album & tour. It's been way too long. I'm ready for a new Peter Gabriel album.

Looks like a go...
https://americansongwriter.com/peter...ur%20in%202023.

[madbear]

"I won't hold my breath for Peter Gabriel, but I'll be there when/if he does go forward with a new album & tour. It's been way too long. I'm ready for a new Peter Gabriel album."

I won't hold my breath either. I like Gabriel [and Genesis with Gabriel) music, but do wish he'd stop overproducing albums and just record them and tour with them. I have found his last few albums incredibly dry and cold, with no energy in them.

[Ash Armstrong]

Just ordered my In the Court of the Crimson King big box from Burning Shed.
Along with the Beatles Get Back set, that's my holiday viewing covered.

The front and back covers of the Krim set are Tony Levin's photographs of the Royal Albert Hall audiences, and from what I'm able to see, I believe I'm on the back cover shot from Wednesday June 19...!

[kkleinschmidt]

I'm hoping Santa has this on his list for me but if not I will pick it up sooner than later. Loving the packaging because like you Ash we were there for the RAH shows but we were in one of the boxes so not sure if we got in the pictures.

Everything I have heard says Robert is done touring with the entity known as King Crimson, and without him it doesn't exist therefore King Crimson is done touring. We'll see how this thing with Toyah works out and he can always pull something off solo so time will tell. I am just so incredibly happy to get in the final show that we were able to see in Albany. But of course there's always Adrian, Tony, Pat, and others that help fill the void, at least for now.

[Ash Armstrong]

It's arrived! It's arrived! It's arrived!

[Olorin]

Yep, got mine the other day, too. Haven’t done anything with it yet other than log it into my database and rip the cd parts to iTunes.

[Ash Armstrong]

Yep, got mine the other day, too. Haven’t done anything with it yet other than log it into my database and rip the cd parts to iTunes.

I'm going watch the film this evening, and no doubt listen to the CDs over the next two and a half weeks of Christmas holiday.

[kkleinschmidt]

We received our copy yesterday and watched most of the first BluRay disc last night which included the 50th documentary, a 23-minute short showing excerpts from an early version of the film, and a video of the last performance of Starless. We enjoyed it very much and thought it was very well done. The interviews are wonderful with fun contributions from Bill Bruford and some of the other early members of the band, and there's quite a bit of really touching time spent with Bill Rieflin. I don't recall seeing much Tony Levin interview time and there also wasn't much (any?) historical video interviews with folks like Greg Lake, John Wetton or any of the other prior members of the band who didn't give direct interviews for the movie. Overall I would definitely give it a 10 and we'll definitely be watching again.

But the best part is Betsy and I are clearly visible in the Pompeii footage. First up was me. Someone was being interviewed for the movie before the show in the aisle half way to the stage and just after the scene starts I stand up and start looking around toward the back clear as day on the left side of the screen. Maybe 5 or 10 minutes later during one of the performances they cut to a shot of Betsy sitting in her seat enjoying the music in her white dress and you can even see her necklace (which I believe is a third eye pine cone that I got for her - we need to rewatch that again to be sure). Of course it couldn't be more fun to pop up in this movie like we did so we're totally thrilled and it's a wonderful memory of our trip there.

We also saw the Royal Albert Hall shows but didn't see us anywhere, or at least we haven't checked close enough and there certainly isn't anything nearly as obvious as Pompeii. We'll be working through the rest over the weekend. Giddy up!

[Ash Armstrong]

We received our copy yesterday and watched most of the first BluRay disc last night which included the 50th documentary, a 23-minute short showing excerpts from an early version of the film, and a video of the last performance of Starless. We enjoyed it very much and thought it was very well done. The interviews are wonderful with fun contributions from Bill Bruford and some of the other early members of the band, and there's quite a bit of really touching time spent with Bill Rieflin. I don't recall seeing much Tony Levin interview time and there also wasn't much (any?) historical video interviews with folks like Greg Lake, John Wetton or any of the other prior members of the band who didn't give direct interviews for the movie. Overall I would definitely give it a 10 and we'll definitely be watching again.

But the best part is Betsy and I are clearly visible in the Pompeii footage. First up was me. Someone was being interviewed for the movie before the show in the aisle half way to the stage and just after the scene starts I stand up and start looking around toward the back clear as day on the left side of the screen. Maybe 5 or 10 minutes later during one of the performances they cut to a shot of Betsy sitting in her seat enjoying the music in her white dress and you can even see her necklace (which I believe is a third eye pine cone that I got for her - we need to rewatch that again to be sure). Of course it couldn't be more fun to pop up in this movie like we did so we're totally thrilled and it's a wonderful memory of our trip there.

We also saw the Royal Albert Hall shows but didn't see us anywhere, or at least we haven't checked close enough and there certainly isn't anything nearly as obvious as Pompeii. We'll be working through the rest over the weekend. Giddy up!

Wonderful! Really pleased for you both