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When could have YES captured the most mystique?

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  • Soundchaser413
    replied
    Originally posted by Ash Armstrong View Post

    I wasn't specifically referring to concert-goers, and I'm disinclined to 'grade' fans, either as 'casual', 'hardcore', or anything else. I guess it's another way of denigrating one group of people against another, like placing them in the generation categories so in vogue these days. It stands to reason there are fewer fans still living who discovered the band in the early 70s than there are of those who only discovered them in the mid-80s. We're steadily dying off! Obviously there will be exceptions to such a generalisation.
    Ha ha. I see your point but I still disagree. That's ok. We can agree to disagree. Many, many people discovered prog and Yes in the 70's (not just early 70's). Yes actually reached their touring peak around 1978. Plus just discovering a band doesn't make you a fan. My point was most of them didn't translate to fans (someone who owns all or most albums and has seen them live). I know of many 80's bands and can name a few songs by the Culture Club or whoever but it doesn't make me a fan. Yeah, the 90125 album sold a lot but judging by the sales of most of the albums that came after it's safe to say that a lot of people bought just the one album and nothing else by them. My main point is that imo more people became fans of Yes in the 70's than in the 80's despite their brief pop chart success then. If you want to say casual fans as in only have heard the most well known songs or only have one or two albums then fine you might win on that account but to me that's not really much of a "fan."

    Anyway, this discussion is too similar to the one in the "are Yes known to most people these days" thread that I started so from now on I would rather continue this kind of discussion over there.
    Last edited by Soundchaser413; 03-27-2022, 08:44 AM.

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  • Ash Armstrong
    replied
    Originally posted by Soundchaser413 View Post

    I totally disagree with that statement. When I have seen Yes live there are definitely more people there older than me than younger than me or around my age (I'm almost 52 and by your measure one of those "younger" fans). The 90125 album sold a lot but most who got into them then only became very casual fans at best. The majority of their fans in my opinion are fans from the 70's or their kids or the younger generation who got into them through being into prog(especially newer prog) and bands such as Tool, Dream Theater, Porcupine Tree and probably also Rush and Pink Floyd.
    I wasn't specifically referring to concert-goers, and I'm disinclined to 'grade' fans, either as 'casual', 'hardcore', or anything else. I guess it's another way of denigrating one group of people against another, like placing them in the generation categories so in vogue these days. It stands to reason there are fewer fans still living who discovered the band in the early 70s than there are of those who only discovered them in the mid-80s. We're steadily dying off! Obviously there will be exceptions to such a generalisation.

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  • Soundchaser413
    replied
    Originally posted by Ash Armstrong View Post

    From my perspective, fans who only 'discovered' the band during the 1980s are 'younger' fans, and there are a lot more of them than there are of people like me....
    I totally disagree with that statement. When I have seen Yes live there are definitely more people there older than me than younger than me or around my age (I'm almost 52 and by your measure one of those "younger" fans). The 90125 album sold a lot but most who got into them then only became very casual fans at best. The majority of their fans in my opinion are fans from the 70's or their kids or the younger generation who got into them through being into prog(especially newer prog) and bands such as Tool, Dream Theater, Porcupine Tree and probably also Rush and Pink Floyd.
    Last edited by Soundchaser413; 03-27-2022, 07:32 AM.

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  • Ash Armstrong
    replied
    Originally posted by Gilly Goodness View Post

    OK Boomer.

    I think from lurking on the old site and now here on the new site, there's plenty of Children of the Seventies.
    You can see us from the receding, grey hair, increasing girths and our fondness for Barbara Eden from I dream of Jeannie. 😍
    I'm more Julie Andrews and Elizabeth Montgomery.... And 'Boomer', along with the other, usually derogatory, terms of demographic designation aren't used in the UK. The girth bit is accurate though.


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  • Gilly Goodness
    replied
    Originally posted by Ash Armstrong View Post

    From my perspective, fans who only 'discovered' the band during the 1980s are 'younger' fans, and there are a lot more of them than there are of people like me....
    OK Boomer.

    I think from lurking on the old site and now here on the new site, there's plenty of Children of the Seventies.
    You can see us from the receding, grey hair, increasing girths and our fondness for Barbara Eden from I dream of Jeannie. 😍

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  • Ash Armstrong
    replied
    Originally posted by Soundchaser413 View Post

    Well, for one thing they would have far fewer younger fans than they do now (which I suppose isn't saying much since they really don't seem to have many younger fans now) but I also think they would be mostly forgotten. I could say they would be as popular as King Crimson but that's not fair since King Crimson are still around. Maybe a good comparison would be Traffic but it depends on when exactly Yes broke up. I'm sort of drawing a blank on popular seventies bands that broke up never to reform( I know there must be some though).

    Maybe I'm a bit confused about the capturing a mystique comment. I suppose you could definitely say that applies to the Beatles or Led Zeppelin. But it woulnd't matter with everyone. Take for example the band Gentle Giant. They only existed for ten years (like LZ) but because they were never that big to begin with it's mainly just hardcore prog fans who know about them now. Is there some mystique? Possibly. With some things we'll probably never really know.
    From my perspective, fans who only 'discovered' the band during the 1980s are 'younger' fans, and there are a lot more of them than there are of people like me....

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  • bondegezou
    replied
    Originally posted by Soundchaser413 View Post
    but that's not fair since King Crimson are still around.
    They've ceased touring. It is unclear whether they still exist in any meaningful sense as a going concern.

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  • Gilly Goodness
    replied
    Led Zep? They were pretty good and every young person knows their greatest hits.

    Never restyled themselves with big 80's production, synths. No streamlined album graphics. No dorky music videos with mullets.

    Just a fine legacy and fame.

    One of my fave bands.

    Glad YES pushed on. The Ladder. Mag. FFH, TQ.

    YES has a sterling reputation for the 70's work.
    Much loved fan base. One of the most loyal.


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  • Soundchaser413
    replied
    Originally posted by Bill M View Post
    I often wonder how YES would be regarded if they disbanded at some earlier point in time.

    One thing is certain; there would be no debate regarding whether YES is YES. I believe that without this debate, there would be more respect for the YES brand.

    Is it possible that YES would have been even more alluring if they disbanded earlier on? Would it be after Close to the Edge, Relayer, Tormato, Drama, Big Generator, some other album, or perhaps never?

    In my opinion, disbanding after “Close To The Edge” (or Yessongs) would have captured the most mystique. This scenario reminds me of “Cream” who broke up just as they were getting renowned.

    Don’t get me wrong, I probably would have been devastated if they broke up earlier, but that is not the point. I do love the music and musicians that came later and believe that it all would have still materialized in some alternative form regardless.

    How would YES be regarded if they broke up at some earlier point in time? When would have they captured the most mystique?
    Well, for one thing they would have far fewer younger fans than they do now (which I suppose isn't saying much since they really don't seem to have many younger fans now) but I also think they would be mostly forgotten. I could say they would be as popular as King Crimson but that's not fair since King Crimson are still around. Maybe a good comparison would be Traffic but it depends on when exactly Yes broke up. I'm sort of drawing a blank on popular seventies bands that broke up never to reform( I know there must be some though).

    Maybe I'm a bit confused about the capturing a mystique comment. I suppose you could definitely say that applies to the Beatles or Led Zeppelin. But it woulnd't matter with everyone. Take for example the band Gentle Giant. They only existed for ten years (like LZ) but because they were never that big to begin with it's mainly just hardcore prog fans who know about them now. Is there some mystique? Possibly. With some things we'll probably never really know.
    Last edited by Soundchaser413; 03-24-2022, 07:53 PM.

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  • Bill M
    replied
    Originally posted by Esthe View Post

    Maybe start a thread on the alternate history forum on that. I’d be interested to see how the timeline would go.
    Originally posted by Frumious B View Post
    No matter how you rewrite history or hop from one parallel universe to another I think that, barring some kind of tragedy involving a band member, Yes would have eventually reunited in one form or another.
    Here is a short diversion:
    After CTTE was recorded, Bill Bruford leaves and Alan White comes onboard for the tour. As Jon was presenting his new ambitious ideas, Rick Wakeman saw the direction this was going before committing to the next album and decided to leave.
    The group considered the obscure direction they were taking while realizing they were down to 2 original members and thought that perhaps this project was outside of YES. Patrick Moraz joined this new experimental group and stayed for both albums, Tales From Topographic Oceans and Relayer.
    After each member released solo albums, the force of nature pushed the timeline back onto the one we know. Yes rebooted with Wakeman and released Going For The One.

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  • Esthe
    replied
    Originally posted by Ash Armstrong View Post
    There is a river rising in the Himalayas which is populated with several species of mystique, so a sturdy rod and line and who knows how many might be caught...
    We have to think up a plan to lure them there!

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  • Ash Armstrong
    replied
    There is a river rising in the Himalayas which is populated with several species of mystique, so a sturdy rod and line and who knows how many might be caught...

    Leave a comment:


  • Esthe
    replied
    Originally posted by Frumious B View Post
    No matter how you rewrite history or hop from one parallel universe to another I think that, barring some kind of tragedy involving a band member, Yes would have eventually reunited in one form or another. If they had split after Tormato or Drama, even if Trevor Rabin never enters the picture, I think they still get back together with the classic lineup by the late 80s or early 90s. I’m inclined to argue that 2004 should have been the last hurrah. Fly From Here and From A Page are nice to have, but I don’t know that those records are enough to creatively justify Yes’ existence from 2008-2022.
    I’m very interested to see what kind of tragedy could befall an unsuspecting former Yes member.

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  • bondegezou
    replied
    Originally posted by Frumious B View Post
    No matter how you rewrite history or hop from one parallel universe to another I think that, barring some kind of tragedy involving a band member, Yes would have eventually reunited in one form or another. If they had split after Tormato or Drama, even if Trevor Rabin never enters the picture, I think they still get back together with the classic lineup by the late 80s or early 90s. I’m inclined to argue that 2004 should have been the last hurrah. Fly From Here and From A Page are nice to have, but I don’t know that those records are enough to creatively justify Yes’ existence from 2008-2022.
    But, just as Yes were sure to have gotten back together by the late '80s/early '90s, so also the same forces continued to be at work and Yes were sure to have gotten back together after 2004.

    Leave a comment:


  • Frumious B
    replied
    No matter how you rewrite history or hop from one parallel universe to another I think that, barring some kind of tragedy involving a band member, Yes would have eventually reunited in one form or another. If they had split after Tormato or Drama, even if Trevor Rabin never enters the picture, I think they still get back together with the classic lineup by the late 80s or early 90s. I’m inclined to argue that 2004 should have been the last hurrah. Fly From Here and From A Page are nice to have, but I don’t know that those records are enough to creatively justify Yes’ existence from 2008-2022.

    Leave a comment:

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