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Failing to chart in the US- Why?

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  • Failing to chart in the US- Why?

    Both The Quest and Mirror to the Sky have failed to break into the Billboard 200 chart. This is despite the fact that across Europe and in Japan both albums had a reasonable showing. Is this the end of Yes's success with new music in the states? Its ironic given the fact that Yes has just become a majority American band now.
    The Definitive YES Albums

    -The Yes Album-Fragile-Close to the Edge-Tales From Topographic Oceans-
    -Relayer-Going for the One-Drama-90125-Big Generator-Union-Talk-
    -The Ladder-Magnification-Fly From Here-The Quest-Mirror to the Sky-

  • #2
    That's disappointing. Many fans who would normally have purchased a new album have probably given up on them because of the new direction or Anderson not being in the band. It is a little surprising though that as recently as 2014, H&E was 26 in its first week.

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    • #3
      They changed the formula for the Billboard 200 in late 2014 to increase the weight of streams. Maybe that change makes the chart less Yes friendly?
      “Well ain’t life grand when you finally hit it?”-David Lee Roth

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      • #4
        There is a Billboard chart that is only physical sales, but you have to be a paid subscriber to access.
        “Well ain’t life grand when you finally hit it?”-David Lee Roth

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        • #5
          Maybe American Yes fans are buying the music off British sources? That's what I did. Does that matter? I'm Canadian though.

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          • #6
            Outside people who closely follow the band's activities, I doubt anybody is aware that the album is out.

            Then, you have people like me who are Yes fans, still follow from time to time what Yes is up to, but don't like the band's current direction and don't buy the albums.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Davy
              That's disappointing. Many fans who would normally have purchased a new album have probably given up on them because of the new direction or Anderson not being in the band."
              I'd say it is because Yes have written very few interesting songs since 2011.

              It is a little surprising though that as recently as 2014, H&E was 26 in its first week.

              2014 isn't recent in the music business, though. Also, H&E was released just three years after the mostly favorably rated Fly From Here.

              This is also from an older era, but I remember reading that Toto sold 10,000 albums of XIV in 2015, and it peaked at number 99 in the U.S.
              Last edited by yamishogun; 05-30-2023, 06:54 AM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Frumious B
                They changed the formula for the Billboard 200 in late 2014 to increase the weight of streams. Maybe that change makes the chart less Yes friendly?
                Originally posted by Frumious B
                There is a Billboard chart that is only physical sales, but you have to be a paid subscriber to access.
                My presumption had been that The Quest didn't chart in the US because production delays meant that digital, CD and LP releases were all in different weeks, but the failure of MttS to chart there suggests that something else is going on. ​I think you're right, Frum. The album does well on sales, but loses out on streaming.

                Someone who does have paid access shared the sales chart data for the US. MttS was Private Messages in Internet albums (i.e., physical sales through online stores), Steve Howe in current album sales, Billy Sherwood in album sales, Billy Sherwood in current digital albums and Jon Anderson in digital albums. Likewise, in the UK, while Trevor Rabin overall, the album was Special on sales, Special on physical sales, #11 on vinyl, Articles on downloads and Jon Anderson in independent record store sales.

                I bet the countries where it has charted well, like Switzerland and Germany, also don't include or put less weight on streaming.

                So, the question then becomes, why does the album do badly on streaming? The obvious answer is that the streaming audience skews younger and Yes's fanbase is mostly older. Indeed, I think Yes is charting as well as they are on sales because total sales volumes are down and sales bias towards older fans.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by soundchaser09
                  Its ironic given the fact that Yes has just become a majority American band now.
                  Yeah but geographically and musically are different things, lol.
                  Rabin-esque
                  my labor of love (and obsessive research)
                  rabinesque.blogspot.com

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by yamishogun
                    This is also from an older era, but I remember reading that Toto sold 10,000 albums of XIV in 2015, and it peaked at number 99 in the U.S.
                    98, says Wikipedia. And the compilation 40 Trips Around the Sun made 82. Toto have since stopped releasing new studio material, instead we're getting Steve Lukather and Joseph Williams solo albums (with lots of Toto people playing on them). Luke's 2021 I Found the Sun Again failed to chart in the US, while making the top 20 in Switzerland, Austria and Germany. Again, I'm guessing the Swiss, German and Austrian charts treat streaming differently.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bondegezou

                      ….Someone who does have paid access shared the sales chart data for the US. MttS was Private Messages in Internet albums (i.e., physical sales through online stores), Steve Howe in current album sales, Billy Sherwood in album sales, Billy Sherwood in current digital albums and Jon Anderson in digital albums. Likewise, in the UK, while Trevor Rabin overall, the album was Special on sales, Special on physical sales, #11 on vinyl, Articles on downloads and Jon Anderson in independent record store sales.
                      ….
                      Sorry but could this be reposted without the #s. They translate numbers into links and make for meaninglessness.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bondegezou



                        My presumption had been that The Quest didn't chart in the US because production delays meant that digital, CD and LP releases were all in different weeks, but the failure of MttS to chart there suggests that something else is going on. ​I think you're right, Frum. The album does well on sales, but loses out on streaming.

                        Someone who does have paid access shared the sales chart data for the US. MttS was Private Messages in Internet albums (i.e., physical sales through online stores), Steve Howe in current album sales, Billy Sherwood in album sales, Billy Sherwood in current digital albums and Jon Anderson in digital albums. Likewise, in the UK, while Trevor Rabin overall, the album was Special on sales, Special on physical sales, #11 on vinyl, Articles on downloads and Jon Anderson in independent record store sales.

                        I bet the countries where it has charted well, like Switzerland and Germany, also don't include or put less weight on streaming.

                        So, the question then becomes, why does the album do badly on streaming? The obvious answer is that the streaming audience skews younger and Yes's fanbase is mostly older. Indeed, I think Yes is charting as well as they are on sales because total sales volumes are down and sales bias towards older fans.
                        I found a U.K. chart that tracked physical sales only and the album was at 7 there while it ended up at 30 in the main chart so the streaming “penalty” is pretty evident there. Also, I kind of wonder which retailers report their sales for chart considerations and where since there isn’t a lot of bricks and mortar music retail at all anymore so most physical copies are ordered online from Amazon and other assorted vendors.

                        Mirror To The Sky is currently at 30 on US Amazon’s CDs and vinyl chart. For comparison Paul Simon’s new album is at 4 while Dave Matthews’ new album is at 34 Both of those albums were released on May 19 too. If you are in the U.S.A. and order from Burning Shed then I assume that counts towards U.K. sales. I bought the album as a download from Qobuz, where I get most of my new music these days. Qobuz is based in France so it could be that my purchase counts towards the French chart placement. I honestly have no idea.
                        “Well ain’t life grand when you finally hit it?”-David Lee Roth

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Khatrooper

                          Sorry but could this be reposted without the #s. They translate numbers into links and make for meaninglessness.
                          Glad I wasn't the only one going "WTF??"😉

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Drone Decipher
                            Maybe American Yes fans are buying the music off British sources? That's what I did. Does that matter? I'm Canadian though.
                            Yes, I think that is a major reason right there.

                            I have really enjoyed the recent wave of 2-CD/BluRay releases for new albums (Yes and Porcupine Tree’s recent releases leap to mind). When I try to order such releases from US Amazon, they always end up being delayed in shipping, sometimes by multiple weeks. So, now, when such a release is coming, I always buy it from Burning Shed. I may pay slightly more, but it will arrive on or a few days after the scheduled release date. Most progressive rock fans here know about Burning Shed and buy regularly from them. Our sales are undoubtedly ending up the UK sales ledger.


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                            • #15
                              In the United States, they are mainly a legacy act with little interest from the public in new music from the band regardless of the quality. Nothing will sounds like their music from the 1970s and 1980s so the general public which is generally an older fan base has little to no awareness (and probably interest in) of new album releases. Why else have they played the same stale songs as an encore for the most part for years? Having only Howe as a recognizable doesn't help things. No Anderson, Squire, Rabin, Wakeman, etc. The two bands are on two different levels in terms of recognition since the 1970s but the core of Rolling Stones is essentially the same minus Charlie Watts compared to the ongoing Yes lineup shuffle. Knowing the keyboardist from Asia and Video Killed The Radio Star is in Yes isn't going to draw more people into the band and/or its new music.
                              Last edited by josuev80; 05-30-2023, 01:22 PM.
                              Not on Yes' payroll.

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