The foundational key to all great Yes music- a happening rhythm section

[Enlighten]

For me anyway. As I stare at the reality of having listened to Cut from the Stars over 20 times in the last 36 hours, it’s pretty apparent what the key is. It’s the drums and the bass. What drew me to Yes in the seventies was the Chris Squire/Bill Bruford magic and the Chris Squire/Alan White magic. So much of what propels great Yes music is the power and intricacy of that drum/ bass combo. In my own experience as a bass player in several bands, I learned pretty early on that you aren’t going very far in any musically creative process, without a happening drummer. Bill was incredible on the holy trinity of TYA, Fragile and CTTE. And then Alan came in and they got even more powerful. Alan White was an absolute beast on Topographic Oceans, Relayer, GFTO, Tormato and Drama. He was also a phenomenal live drummer. We were spoiled for so many years to have Chris and Alan at the top of their game. But things started to change after their last tour with Jon A. Chris and Alan were still good during the Benoit period but not quite hitting the fastball like the use to. After Fly From Here there was another down tick in what I was hearing. The last period of time, from Heaven and Earth through The Quest, has been a rough time for this Yes fan. It was obvious that Alan was struggling and couldn’t bring the power and finesse like he use to. God bless him, he gave his life and his life force to this band. Being a drummer in a rock band can be so unforgiving to the physical body.

As I listen to this first track from Mirror to the Stars, what hits me immediately is the snap, pop and drive of the drums. Couple that with Billy’s propulsing, front of the mix, jaunty bass guitar and you’ve got the engine going again. When you’ve got that, you’ve got the foundation on which to create good Yes music. I’m really pleasantly surprised.

[pianozach]

I concur.

I even alluded to it in a comment in the thread about the new single. Crisp drums, and Squire-ish bass. Both upfront and mixed properly. I'll be curious to see who's responsible for the engineering and mixing on this. I can only guess that Howe allowed the experts to do their job, rather than the somewhat muddy mixes on H&E.

I also referred to the Old Yesfans member that remastered Heaven and Earth bringing out the bass and drums, and made it far more enjoyable.

If the rest of the tracks are as good as this one, then the album will be a real artistic triumph.

[Mr. Holland]

I concur.

I even alluded to it in a comment in the thread about the new single. Crisp drums, and Squire-ish bass. Both upfront and mixed properly. I'll be curious to see who's responsible for the engineering and mixing on this. I can only guess that Howe allowed the experts to do their job, rather than the somewhat muddy mixes on H&E.

I also referred to the Old Yesfans member that remastered Heaven and Earth bringing out the bass and drums, and made it far more enjoyable.

If the rest of the tracks are as good as this one, then the album will be a real artistic triumph.

I concur as well, but it's not just the mixing and mastering, it's the playing first and foremost. There's an energy back that was sorely missing. Alan fully deserved to go on as long as he wanted. With his long standing service and loyalty he deserved that. But (and I hope that not all hell will break lose on me now) quite possibly the music suffered for it.

When I saw the band in 2018, they played the two Tales songs and Alan took over from Jay during the solo in Ritual. The drop in energy was palatable unfortunately.

I'm starting to think now that perhaps the songs selected for The Quest were also based on what Alan could handle, hence it became a softer album. If the new album is more high energy, as the press release on the official website says, and with the album so relatively close to The Quest in time, it would surprise me if all the songs for it were freshly written after the release of The Quest. But I could be wrong of course.

No disrespect ment to Alan, he was and will always be one of my all-time favourite drummers, but the change in energy is certainly for a great part because of Jay handling the drums now.

[JMKUSA]

I concur as well, but it's not just the mixing and mastering, it's the playing first and foremost. There's an energy back that was sorely missing. Alan fully deserved to go on as long as he wanted. With his long standing service and loyalty he deserved that. But (and I hope that not all hell will break lose on me now) quite possibly the music suffered for it.

When I saw the band in 2018, they played the two Tales songs and Alan took over from Jay during the solo in Ritual. The drop in energy was palatable unfortunately.

I'm starting to think now that perhaps the songs selected for The Quest were also based on what Alan could handle, hence it became a softer album. If the new album is more high energy, as the press release on the official website says, and with the album so relatively close to The Quest in time, it would surprise me if all the songs for it were freshly written after the release of The Quest. But I could be wrong of course.

No disrespect ment to Alan, he was and will always be one of my all-time favourite drummers, but the change in energy is certainly for a great part because of Jay handling the drums now.

I agree. But I think Alan did well on The Quest considering his situation. Billy got the best out of him.

[Enlighten]

I concur as well, but it's not just the mixing and mastering, it's the playing first and foremost. There's an energy back that was sorely missing. Alan fully deserved to go on as long as he wanted. With his long standing service and loyalty he deserved that. But (and I hope that not all hell will break lose on me now) quite possibly the music suffered for it.

When I saw the band in 2018, they played the two Tales songs and Alan took over from Jay during the solo in Ritual. The drop in energy was palatable unfortunately.

I'm starting to think now that perhaps the songs selected for The Quest were also based on what Alan could handle, hence it became a softer album. If the new album is more high energy, as the press release on the official website says, and with the album so relatively close to The Quest in time, it would surprise me if all the songs for it were freshly written after the release of The Quest. But I could be wrong of course.

No disrespect ment to Alan, he was and will always be one of my all-time favourite drummers, but the change in energy is certainly for a great part because of Jay handling the drums now.

Hell should not break loose on you for being honest. I concur with everything you said. The music did suffer but the trade off was that Alan wasn’t cast aside. He was treated with the utmost respect by his bandmates. That doesn’t happen a lot in rock and roll.

[Mr. Holland]

Hell should not break loose on you for being honest. I concur with everything you said. The music did suffer but the trade off was that Alan wasn’t cast aside. He was treated with the utmost respect by his bandmates. That doesn’t happen a lot in rock and roll.

That was indeed the trade off and as said Alan deserved that fully.

[rePete]

For me anyway. As I stare at the reality of having listened to Cut from the Stars over 20 times in the last 36 hours, it’s pretty apparent what the key is. It’s the drums and the bass. What drew me to Yes in the seventies was the Chris Squire/Bill Bruford magic and the Chris Squire/Alan White magic. So much of what propels great Yes music is the power and intricacy of that drum/ bass combo. In my own experience as a bass player in several bands, I learned pretty early on that you aren’t going very far in any musically creative process, without a happening drummer. Bill was incredible on the holy trinity of TYA, Fragile and CTTE. And then Alan came in and they got even more powerful. Alan White was an absolute beast on Topographic Oceans, Relayer, GFTO, Tormato and Drama. He was also a phenomenal live drummer. We were spoiled for so many years to have Chris and Alan at the top of their game. But things started to change after their last tour with Jon A. Chris and Alan were still good during the Benoit period but not quite hitting the fastball like the use to. After Fly From Here there was another down tick in what I was hearing. The last period of time, from Heaven and Earth through The Quest, has been a rough time for this Yes fan. It was obvious that Alan was struggling and couldn’t bring the power and finesse like he use to. God bless him, he gave his life and his life force to this band. Being a drummer in a rock band can be so unforgiving to the physical body.

As I listen to this first track from Mirror to the Stars, what hits me immediately is the snap, pop and drive of the drums. Couple that with Billy’s propulsing, front of the mix, jaunty bass guitar and you’ve got the engine going again. When you’ve got that, you’ve got the foundation on which to create good Yes music. I’m really pleasantly surprised.

I agree with you - mostly.

That rhythm section foundation was/is critical to the band's success, but not without the other components. Kind of like an exquisite pasta dish. The meat on it's own - fine, but bland. The pasta and veggies on their own - same thing. Bland. The cheese (insert your favourite Wakeman sound choice joke HERE) also fine, but unremarkable. But put it all together in the right amounts and seasoning, and it's a home run. The foundation is nothing without the rest, or at least some strength in the other components - and the same goes for the other components.

Now I'm hungry.

[Mr. Holland]

I agree with you - mostly.

That rhythm section foundation was/is critical to the band's success, but not without the other components. Kind of like an exquisite pasta dish. The meat on it's own - fine, but bland. The pasta and veggies on their own - same thing. Bland. The cheese (insert your favourite Wakeman sound choice joke HERE) also fine, but unremarkable. But put it all together in the right amounts and seasoning, and it's a home run. The foundation is nothing without the rest, or at least some strength in the other components - and the same goes for the other components.

Now I'm hungry.

You'll be known as "Pasta Pete" around these parts from now on.... ...

[rePete]

You'll be known as "Pasta Pete" around these parts from now on.... ...

😁 And you can be Hollandaise! Lets start a band.

[John Southworth]

100% agree with everything said. Can’t wait to hear some more 😎

[Yesed]

For me anyway. As I stare at the reality of having listened to Cut from the Stars over 20 times in the last 36 hours, it’s pretty apparent what the key is. It’s the drums and the bass. What drew me to Yes in the seventies was the Chris Squire/Bill Bruford magic and the Chris Squire/Alan White magic. So much of what propels great Yes music is the power and intricacy of that drum/ bass combo. In my own experience as a bass player in several bands, I learned pretty early on that you aren’t going very far in any musically creative process, without a happening drummer. Bill was incredible on the holy trinity of TYA, Fragile and CTTE. And then Alan came in and they got even more powerful. Alan White was an absolute beast on Topographic Oceans, Relayer, GFTO, Tormato and Drama. He was also a phenomenal live drummer. We were spoiled for so many years to have Chris and Alan at the top of their game. But things started to change after their last tour with Jon A. Chris and Alan were still good during the Benoit period but not quite hitting the fastball like the use to. After Fly From Here there was another down tick in what I was hearing. The last period of time, from Heaven and Earth through The Quest, has been a rough time for this Yes fan. It was obvious that Alan was struggling and couldn’t bring the power and finesse like he use to. God bless him, he gave his life and his life force to this band. Being a drummer in a rock band can be so unforgiving to the physical body.

As I listen to this first track from Mirror to the Stars, what hits me immediately is the snap, pop and drive of the drums. Couple that with Billy’s propulsing, front of the mix, jaunty bass guitar and you’ve got the engine going again. When you’ve got that, you’ve got the foundation on which to create good Yes music. I’m really pleasantly surprised.

Well put, and I agree that this first release from the new album has most of the qualities that you mention, and the band has the musical will and ability to put out solid material. I get the idea of covering new ground and progressing. But would you say Cut from the Stars holds up to, say something like Siberian Khatru, from at least a melody and composition point of view.

[Enlighten]

I agree with you - mostly.

That rhythm section foundation was/is critical to the band's success, but not without the other components. Kind of like an exquisite pasta dish. The meat on it's own - fine, but bland. The pasta and veggies on their own - same thing. Bland. The cheese (insert your favourite Wakeman sound choice joke HERE) also fine, but unremarkable. But put it all together in the right amounts and seasoning, and it's a home run. The foundation is nothing without the rest, or at least some strength in the other components - and the same goes for the other components.

Now I'm hungry.

Of course, Pete. You’re dealing with the bias of a bass player here.😊

Yes, at their greatest, were a group of musicians who brought their best creative flavors to a musical entree that had just the right spice from each one of them. For me, the spice and panache of the drum/bass combo has been missing for awhile. What a pleasant surprise to hear Jay and Billy kick it up a notch and come to the fore. This band needs some power and drive and I’m hearing it in CftS. Really curious to hear the rest of this album.

[Enlighten]

But would you say Cut from the Stars holds up to, say something like Siberian Khatru, from at least a melody and composition point of view.

No but when you’ve been in a virtual desert of Yes playing their equivalent of elevator music, this is a huge improvement. As I said, I hear the engine cooking on Cut from the Stars. We take improvement as a good sign.

[Enlighten]

😁 And you can be Hollandaise! Let’s start a band.

Hey, I want in. We could be a power trio and if Erik wants to join, we can be like Spinal Tap and have two bass players.😉

[Yesed]

No but when you’ve been in a virtual desert of Yes playing their equivalent of elevator music, this is a huge improvement. As I said, I hear the engine cooking on Cut from the Stars. We take improvement as a good sign.

True. I’m hopeful for the rest of the album, for that energy factor. Not so hopeful in that Steve may have been overly absorbed into the Davison/Sherwood factor. I’m leaving Jay out of this. I like him and he’s a great drummer. I hope he gets to shine a bit more on the album.