Relayer on tour - will it be a train wreck?

[bondegezou]

The name of the thread includes, “will it be a train wreck”? That’s open for debate. Don’t we have plenty of examples of this current Yes in a live setting to be able to consider how they might be able or might not be able to handle the difficult material that is Relayer? You characterizing this as shitting on poor Yes is more a statement about you and your own inner sense of what decorum is related to how we talk about this band. I’m sorry if you’re offended by my honesty but don’t worry about my musical happiness, I have plenty of that.

There will always be transcendent, brilliant Yes music to listen to because they’ve already made it. And others, like the Band Geeks and the pianist I posted a video of, are continuing the legacy by playing it the way it was meant to be played, with passion, energy and fire. Yes music still makes me happy, whether it’s played by others or whether it’s played by the band itself, when it was in its prime.

I'm glad you have many sources of musical happiness.

I'm not offended by your honesty. You're a Yes fan working through your thoughts about the band. I'm a Yes fan working through my thoughts about the band. The point I perhaps didn't make clear enough earlier is that you cannot be honest, or dishonest, about Yes's Relayer tour, because you've not heard it yet, because it hasn't happened yet. (Likewise, none of us have heard the Band Geeks live yet, although we do have their earlier studio renditions.) Posing a leading question -- and don't pretend "will it be a train wreck" isn't a leading question -- is not a neutral approach. You have your reasons to expect failure (which we have talked about at length), but it's not a review in the way reviewers normally work, and I was replying to your comment where you were comparing yourself to a regular reviewer.

A regular reviewer would go to a show, write up what they thought about it, and move on. You have spent weeks repeatedly predicting that something that hasn't happened yet will be terrible. These are different activities. There is space on Yesfans for both of them.

[bondegezou]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laKt80x0E4k

It remains a great song, but what a lifeless performance! I really don't get what people saw in recent Crimson. They're executing what they want to play with great technical proficiency, but there is no soul in that rendition. It has nothing on the gut-wrenching, emotional '70s performances. To my ears, at least.

[Enlighten]

I can predict the future

no matter what the current lineup does whether they play it 100% like the album or not there will be people on this site who will hate it and those who love it…


Now for more amazing predictions call 1-900- yes-fans where I will make more stunning predictions. Like will dbar like the next Yes album.. Will Frumious B and when will Rabin105 stop talking about Hilary Duff

call now operators are standing by

How about some other points along the trajectory between love and hate? Or does your standard black and white thinking prohibit that?

My guess is that they do a decent to good job with “To Be Over,” it’s pretty low key, not too fast. Of all those pieces, that one would be most in their wheelhouse. I think they’re going to have a rough go with Soundchaser, ooops, I may have just shit on the band. So sorry for all of those who have sensitive Yes stomachs. Gates will be a mixed bag.

[rabin105]

I can predict the future

no matter what the current lineup does whether they play it 100% like the album or not there will be people on this site who will hate it and those who love it…


Now for more amazing predictions call 1-900- yes-fans where I will make more stunning predictions. Like will dbar like the next Yes album.. Will Frumious B and when will Rabin105 stop talking about Hilary Duff

call now operators are standing by

[Enlighten]

You make a comparison with reviews and reviewers. A reviewer generally experiences something, comments on it and then moves on. You created a thread to shit on something before it even happened. This comes across as more about you seeking some sort of catharsis for your own feelings of disappointment than just someone posting a review.

You are engaging in a fan discourse, not a generic consumer/reviewer discourse. You are acting as a fan (a disappointed one). As such, others will judge you in terms of what sort of fan discourse they seek.

What is Yesfans? It is, I think, among other things, a space where we can work through our feelings about Yes, and what it means to be a Yes fan. I hope that there are sources of happiness for you from the worlds of Yes and related music in 2023. Maybe the new Yes album and tour won't be what you want (maybe they will), but hopefully something else can be.

The name of the thread includes, “will it be a train wreck”? That’s open for debate. Don’t we have plenty of examples of this current Yes in a live setting to be able to consider how they might be able or might not be able to handle the difficult material that is Relayer? You characterizing this as shitting on poor Yes is more a statement about you and your own inner sense of what decorum is related to how we talk about this band. I’m sorry if you’re offended by my honesty but don’t worry about my musical happiness, I have plenty of that.

There will always be transcendent, brilliant Yes music to listen to because they’ve already made it. And others, like the Band Geeks and the pianist I posted a video of, are continuing the legacy by playing it the way it was meant to be played, with passion, energy and fire. Yes music still makes me happy, whether it’s played by others or whether it’s played by the band itself, when it was in its prime.

[Enlighten]

You are free to your opinion. Everyone is. I'm just a little confused as to why there are so many posts on yesfans, a fansite, trying to compare the yes of today to the yes of the 70s. They were never going to be as good as they were back then.

In spite of all that, I really like Fly From Here and The Quest. Do I have my problems, yes. Do I think they could add a bit more rock into their new music, absolutely, but I won't complain relentlessly about it because I am grateful that these guys go out there and still play. Yes is, and always has been a changing outfit and I'm excited for what is to come next. I choose not to dwell on the slowing down of Steve Howe because I respect this 75 year old man for all he has done for us over these years.

We agree on certain things, the band is slower, but I wouldn't want to remove Howe, would you?

As I’ve said before, a fan can be a fan without being a fan of everything a band does.

As far as Howe, I think a second guitarist would benefit both Yes and Howe, at this point. But Steve would never go for that.

[Enlighten]

Well, i think Yes probably is the best that can be done at the moment, though previous versions have been way better. But Wakeman won't return, Anderson is away with the pixies, Alan and Chris have left the planet. and Bruford is retired. And imho Rabin should never have been allowed near the band.

Fripp and King Crimson are good, yes, but again way past their best incarnation[s]. The current [or last?] group managed to turn even the sharp postpunk gamelan of tracks from Discipline in to turgid swamp prog. I'll go with some of court of the Crimson King, Red, Starless, Discipline, Project X and lots of the live stuff, but however great Belew is on guitar he shouldnt be allowed to sing, and 3 drummers is just silly.

I don’t agree that they are the best they can be at the moment. There are better keyboard players and better drummers out there. Billy is fine, if anything, he is restrained on the last album, which is too bad. So that’s an example of not utilizing the talent that they already have. Davison is meh, just doesn’t have the command and depth that a better singer would.

As far as Crimson, we must be on different planets. They’ve maintained their high standard in their live shows by bringing in amazing talent. Belew isn’t in the group anymore, hasn’t been for awhile. The video below is a testament to the difference between Yes and KC. Fripp is still a force and Tony Levin is an absolute bass guitar stud. Both are older than Steve Howe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laKt80x0E4k

[bondegezou]

I find posts like this interesting. If a movie is made by a big name director and has talented actors in it and it turns out to be mediocre or worse, you’ll hear a lot about it's shortcomings by reviewers and regular people who have seen it. If an art exhibit is mediocre or worse, the same thing will happen. Same thing for sports teams, cable TV series, restaurants, anything that is put out to the public. Hell, with Yelp and Google, just about anyone with a public shingle hung out there, will get reviewed. And yet, those poor, poor guys in Yes are the unfair victims of people who a voicing an honest opinion about them (and ironically, it’s not always a so called “negative” opinion).

Remember when Yes really use to be about “reaching new musical heights,” in deed and not in word? Remember when Yes always use to bring in better musicians to replace the ones who had left? Remember when Yes use to be all about challenging themselves musically and using the uncomfortable dynamics in their interpersonal relationships to fuel their creativity? Remember when Yes had 5 fully statured members who all contributed their best bits and vision to the Yes soup, to create the most dynamic music they were capable of creating? Now Yes is mainly about comfort and not rocking the boat. It’s also mainly one person’s vision of Yes. They’re choosing to put themselves out there and make money with the Yes brand. “Laugh at their faults,” yikes, they aren’t doing this for charity. Do people really think that this is the best Yes can be right now? Is the product they are putting out there commensurate with the Yes standard? Of course people will have different opinions and that’s as it always is and should be. When you put yourself out to the public and want the public to partake of your product, you can’t realistically expect people to not have an opinion of what you put out. Yes have the added burden of being the greatest progressive rock band of all time but that didn’t come by way of embracing comfort and mediocrity. They created a standard and for better or worse, they’ll be judged by that standard.

You make a comparison with reviews and reviewers. A reviewer generally experiences something, comments on it and then moves on. You created a thread to shit on something before it even happened. This comes across as more about you seeking some sort of catharsis for your own feelings of disappointment than just someone posting a review.

You are engaging in a fan discourse, not a generic consumer/reviewer discourse. You are acting as a fan (a disappointed one). As such, others will judge you in terms of what sort of fan discourse they seek.

What is Yesfans? It is, I think, among other things, a space where we can work through our feelings about Yes, and what it means to be a Yes fan. I hope that there are sources of happiness for you from the worlds of Yes and related music in 2023. Maybe the new Yes album and tour won't be what you want (maybe they will), but hopefully something else can be.

[bondegezou]

Fripp and King Crimson are good, yes, but again way past their best incarnation[s]. The current [or last?] group managed to turn even the sharp postpunk gamelan of tracks from Discipline in to turgid swamp prog. I'll go with some of court of the Crimson King, Red, Starless, Discipline, Project X and lots of the live stuff, but however great Belew is on guitar he shouldnt be allowed to sing, and 3 drummers is just silly.

Definitely not "current"; very probably "last". And, agree, they sucked the life out of so much of the back catalogue.

[soundchaser09]

I find posts like this interesting. If a movie is made by a big name director and has talented actors in it and it turns out to be mediocre or worse, you’ll hear a lot about it's shortcomings by reviewers and regular people who have seen it. If an art exhibit is mediocre or worse, the same thing will happen. Same thing for sports teams, cable TV series, restaurants, anything that is put out to the public. Hell, with Yelp and Google, just about anyone with a public shingle hung out there, will get reviewed. And yet, those poor, poor guys in Yes are the unfair victims of people who a voicing an honest opinion about them (and ironically, it’s not always a so called “negative” opinion).

Remember when Yes really use to be about “reaching new musical heights,” in deed and not in word? Remember when Yes always use to bring in better musicians to replace the ones who had left? Remember when Yes use to be all about challenging themselves musically and using the uncomfortable dynamics in their interpersonal relationships to fuel their creativity? Remember when Yes had 5 fully statured members who all contributed their best bits and vision to the Yes soup, to create the most dynamic music they were capable of creating? Now Yes is mainly about comfort and not rocking the boat. It’s also mainly one person’s vision of Yes. They’re choosing to put themselves out there and make money with the Yes brand. “Laugh at their faults,” yikes, they aren’t doing this for charity. Do people really think that this is the best Yes can be right now? Is the product they are putting out there commensurate with the Yes standard? Of course people will have different opinions and that’s as it always is and should be. When you put yourself out to the public and want the public to partake of your product, you can’t realistically expect people to not have an opinion of what you put out. Yes have the added burden of being the greatest progressive rock band of all time but that didn’t come by way of embracing comfort and mediocrity. They created a standard and for better or worse, they’ll be judged by that standard.

One last thing. I think if Yes really put the effort into getting the best possible musicians into the band, to replace the incredible ones we’ve lost, it would be a different story. I look at King Crimson and the standard they’ve upheld, especially as a live unit, it’s incredible. Love him or hate him, Fripp has always recruited the best musicians to carry forth the Crimson legacy.

You are free to your opinion. Everyone is. I'm just a little confused as to why there are so many posts on yesfans, a fansite, trying to compare the yes of today to the yes of the 70s. They were never going to be as good as they were back then.

In spite of all that, I really like Fly From Here and The Quest. Do I have my problems, yes. Do I think they could add a bit more rock into their new music, absolutely, but I won't complain relentlessly about it because I am grateful that these guys go out there and still play. Yes is, and always has been a changing outfit and I'm excited for what is to come next. I choose not to dwell on the slowing down of Steve Howe because I respect this 75 year old man for all he has done for us over these years.

We agree on certain things, the band is slower, but I wouldn't want to remove Howe, would you?

[madbear]

Remember when Yes really use to be about “reaching new musical heights,” in deed and not in word? Remember when Yes always use to bring in better musicians to replace the ones who had left? Remember when Yes use to be all about challenging themselves musically and using the uncomfortable dynamics in their interpersonal relationships to fuel their creativity?

One last thing. I think if Yes really put the effort into getting the best possible musicians into the band, to replace the incredible ones we’ve lost, it would be a different story. I look at King Crimson and the standard they’ve upheld, especially as a live unit, it’s incredible. Love him or hate him, Fripp has always recruited the best musicians to carry forth the Crimson legacy.

Well, i think Yes probably is the best that can be done at the moment, though previous versions have been way better. But Wakeman won't return, Anderson is away with the pixies, Alan and Chris have left the planet. and Bruford is retired. And imho Rabin should never have been allowed near the band.

Fripp and King Crimson are good, yes, but again way past their best incarnation[s]. The current [or last?] group managed to turn even the sharp postpunk gamelan of tracks from Discipline in to turgid swamp prog. I'll go with some of court of the Crimson King, Red, Starless, Discipline, Project X and lots of the live stuff, but however great Belew is on guitar he shouldnt be allowed to sing, and 3 drummers is just silly.

[Enlighten]

so much negativity guys, come on, let's enjoy these guys while they're still here, instead of laughing at the faults.

I find posts like this interesting. If a movie is made by a big name director and has talented actors in it and it turns out to be mediocre or worse, you’ll hear a lot about it's shortcomings by reviewers and regular people who have seen it. If an art exhibit is mediocre or worse, the same thing will happen. Same thing for sports teams, cable TV series, restaurants, anything that is put out to the public. Hell, with Yelp and Google, just about anyone with a public shingle hung out there, will get reviewed. And yet, those poor, poor guys in Yes are the unfair victims of people who a voicing an honest opinion about them (and ironically, it’s not always a so called “negative” opinion).

Remember when Yes really use to be about “reaching new musical heights,” in deed and not in word? Remember when Yes always use to bring in better musicians to replace the ones who had left? Remember when Yes use to be all about challenging themselves musically and using the uncomfortable dynamics in their interpersonal relationships to fuel their creativity? Remember when Yes had 5 fully statured members who all contributed their best bits and vision to the Yes soup, to create the most dynamic music they were capable of creating? Now Yes is mainly about comfort and not rocking the boat. It’s also mainly one person’s vision of Yes. They’re choosing to put themselves out there and make money with the Yes brand. “Laugh at their faults,” yikes, they aren’t doing this for charity. Do people really think that this is the best Yes can be right now? Is the product they are putting out there commensurate with the Yes standard? Of course people will have different opinions and that’s as it always is and should be. When you put yourself out to the public and want the public to partake of your product, you can’t realistically expect people to not have an opinion of what you put out. Yes have the added burden of being the greatest progressive rock band of all time but that didn’t come by way of embracing comfort and mediocrity. They created a standard and for better or worse, they’ll be judged by that standard.

One last thing. I think if Yes really put the effort into getting the best possible musicians into the band, to replace the incredible ones we’ve lost, it would be a different story. I look at King Crimson and the standard they’ve upheld, especially as a live unit, it’s incredible. Love him or hate him, Fripp has always recruited the best musicians to carry forth the Crimson legacy.

[soundchaser09]

so much negativity guys, come on, let's enjoy these guys while they're still here, instead of laughing at the faults.

[tumnus]

Maybe they slow down “Soundchaser” and do sort of a swingin’ show tune version to really get those toes a tapping and those fingers a popping.

I just watched the Atlantic City Rat Pack show (on What We Do In The Shadows) so i'm seeing them with cheesey tuxedo suits and loose bow ties, pointing at the audience going "ring a ding ding!" - well except Steve who is pointing at the audience to identify which members are to be ejected from the venue

[Kevin W]

Will the five guys in Yes be able to do justice to Soundchaser like this dude?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqR0AP7A_l4

Wow. Just wow. Thanks for posting. That is by far the best piece of interpretation of Yes music I have ever seen.

I think the answer to your question has to be no. This incredible solo piano version reminds us all just how fiendishly complex the song is. But that's OK. I think they will do alright with GoD and with To Be Over - one of my favourite 'lost' Yes songs - so I am still looking forward to the show as I have never seen either track performed live.