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Relayer on tour - will it be a train wreck?

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    Relayer on tour - will it be a train wreck?

    The current Yes will be attempting Relayer on tour this Spring. Will it be a train wreck? Will they do any abridged versions of songs? How will they pull off Sound Chaser? It seems to me that this particular lineup, of any Yes lineup, is the least equipped to handle this material. What do you all think?

    #2
    I’ve seen this lineup do Gates, which they did quite well. I think they’ll be able to do To Be Over quite well. Sound Chaser is tough, but I think they can do it. The keyboard solo in that song is somewhat like the Moog solo in RSOG, which Geoff did very well.

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      #3
      Slowly, carefully, cautiously, blandly, they'll trundle through...
      Sometimes the lights all shining on me, other times I can barely see.
      Lately it occurs to me what a long strange trip it’s been.

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        #4
        Originally posted by Ash Armstrong View Post
        Slowly, carefully, cautiously, blandly, they'll trundle through...
        And that’s exactly my concern. Ain’t nothing slow, careful, cautious or bland about Sound Chaser or Gates.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Enlighten View Post
          The current Yes will be attempting Relayer on tour this Spring. Will it be a train wreck? Will they do any abridged versions of songs? How will they pull off Sound Chaser? It seems to me that this particular lineup, of any Yes lineup, is the least equipped to handle this material. What do you all think?
          I think the rhythm section of Schellen and Sherwood will be just fine. There hasn't been a Yes song that Davison can't handle.

          Downes, in my observation, sometimes struggles with the more technical passages, and Howe seems to want to play slower than everyone else.

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            #6
            Originally posted by pianozach View Post

            I think the rhythm section of Schellen and Sherwood will be just fine. There hasn't been a Yes song that Davison can't handle.

            Downes, in my observation, sometimes struggles with the more technical passages, and Howe seems to want to play slower than everyone else.
            Yes, I think indeed the senior members of Yes are the ones who face the most challenges with the material.

            To me the contradiction is that especially Steve seems in general to want to stay as close to the original versions of songs as possible, which seems exactly to be that what provides the most challenges. I think this lineup would be better of doing its own interpretation of the Relayer material while still remaining respectful to the originals, although that is perhaps a difficult combination??

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              #7
              Originally posted by Enlighten View Post
              The current Yes will be attempting Relayer on tour this Spring. Will it be a train wreck? Will they do any abridged versions of songs?
              No and no. Howe is clear in his intent and his expectations. He's generally interested in performing material as on the record. There are exceptions. Sometimes, they are when he's unhappy with the studio material: the 2 recent examples here are both from Tormato ("Madrigal", "OtSWoF"). But he's repeatedly talked of wanting to do Relayer in full.

              The band have been working up to this for years. They know it's a challenge. They're not going to do it unless it's up to a certain standard. I'm not saying it will be the best ever performances of the album, but they're not going to go out there to deliver train wrecks.

              Originally posted by Enlighten View Post
              How will they pull off Sound Chaser? It seems to me that this particular lineup, of any Yes lineup, is the least equipped to handle this material. What do you all think?
              I suggest the Anderson/Squire/Banks/Kaye/O'Reilly line-up of late 1968 would've been less equipped. I imagine ARW would've been less equipped.

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                #8
                Originally posted by bondegezou View Post

                Howe is clear in his intent and his expectations. He's generally interested in performing material as on the record.

                I suggest the Anderson/Squire/Banks/Kaye/O'Reilly line-up of late 1968 would've been less equipped. I imagine ARW would've been less equipped.
                If he’s generally interested in performing material as on record, that would mean at the same tempo and with the same energy. You’ve also got the issue of Geoff not being fully able to cover Wakeman’s parts let alone what Moraz does on Relayer.

                Pulled the Anderson, Squire, Banks, Kaye and O’Reilly lineup out of your butt, huh Henry? ARW would have been able to pull it off, albeit in a different style. Wakeman still has chops, just not jazz rock chops. They certainly would have been able to bring more power and drive to Relayer, which is what it needs.



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                  #9
                  Whatever Steve may intend, expect, hope for, aspire to with regards to performing Relayer, his capabilities are very much diminished compared to what they were when it was originally created, and the musicians he has chosen to accompany him are similarly lacking in those capabilities, to the point of anonymity. If he truly wants to perform Relayer/be involved in performances of Relayer, approximating what was delivered in performances in 1974/75 (or even Gates in 2001), the current band that likes to call itself Yes needs some additional players with the capabilities of delivering it.
                  Sometimes the lights all shining on me, other times I can barely see.
                  Lately it occurs to me what a long strange trip it’s been.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    From Sherwood’s description of the Topographic Drama assembly process, we know the band plays (or has recently played) to a click track, which is required to trigger prerecorded samples, if such a thing were desired. Fifty years ago Yes’s engineers were playing tapes of keyboards along with performances of “Close to the Edge” (see the Yessongs video, transition from 3d to 4th movements). And live performances, from “Sound Chaser” (“cha-cha-cha”) to “Changes” and beyond, have been augmented by prerecorded vocals. As far as I know these were all justified as necessary to reproducing the original studio works. If reproducing the original studio works is the goal, they could play along to a click track which triggers prerecorded keyboard tracks. This would not enable Downes to play faster or more precisely but it would allow him to focus more solely on the parts which require speed and precision.

                    (my 2¢: I agree with those above who would prefer re-arrangements to playing along to tapes.)

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Enlighten View Post
                      If he’s generally interested in performing material as on record, that would mean at the same tempo and with the same energy. You’ve also got the issue of Geoff not being fully able to cover Wakeman’s parts let alone what Moraz does on Relayer.

                      Pulled the Anderson, Squire, Banks, Kaye and O’Reilly lineup out of your butt, huh Henry? ARW would have been able to pull it off, albeit in a different style. Wakeman still has chops, just not jazz rock chops. They certainly would have been able to bring more power and drive to Relayer, which is what it needs.
                      Rabin is a very talented guitarist, who has never really sought to apply much of that talent to his interpretation of guitar parts originally by Howe. I'd hate to hear what he'd do on Relayer after what we got on the ARW tour on pieces like "And You and I". I imagine he'd play the whole album on the one guitar, for starters.

                      Downes has, of course, played "Gates" more often than Wakeman has. Downes is clearly interested in playing Moraz's parts in a way Wakeman never has been. Wakeman's idea of "a different style" when playing music he didn't originally perform is to insert random arpeggios, at least that's what I heard on the ARW tour.

                      ARW were never going to touch Relayer. I don't know what you'd have to have done to get them to play it, but in the unlikely event you could've succeeded, the result wouldn't have had power or drive. Sure, Jon would've been singing his heart out and Pomeroy would be enjoying himself, but I expect Rabin and Wakeman would just be sullenly going through the motions!

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Enlighten View Post
                        It seems to me that this particular lineup, of any Yes lineup, is the least equipped to handle this material. What do you all think?
                        I got a good laugh out of this comment. Other than maybe having Patrick on keys how could we ask for anything more, especially at this point? Are you suggesting ARW would have done a better job? Rick won't even try to play *anything* from Relayer! Igor might have been able to pull it off but frankly I am more impressed with Geoff's playing on Gates and RSOG than Igor's. The big thing Steve's crew brings to the table is desire - they want to play Relayer and have for a good long time and because of that I have little doubt they are practicing their behinds off to get it right.

                        Least equipped Yes lineup to play Relayer would have to be any lineup without Steve (sorry Trevor or Peter the thought of you hacking your way through this album gives me the willies) followed only by any lineup with Rick who has stated in the past that he won't play it (like I said above and he hasn't). Past that there might have been a chance with Oliver but we'll never know how that would have turned out. Benoit was a candle in the wind so he's out. JD and the other youngins will be just fine and I bet they will have a bit higher energy because of the challenge, so Steve is just going to have to hold on and get with the program.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by bondegezou View Post

                          Rabin is a very talented guitarist, who has never really sought to apply much of that talent to his interpretation of guitar parts originally by Howe. I'd hate to hear what he'd do on Relayer after what we got on the ARW tour on pieces like "And You and I". I imagine he'd play the whole album on the one guitar, for starters.

                          Downes has, of course, played "Gates" more often than Wakeman has. Downes is clearly interested in playing Moraz's parts in a way Wakeman never has been. Wakeman's idea of "a different style" when playing music he didn't originally perform is to insert random arpeggios, at least that's what I heard on the ARW tour.

                          ARW were never going to touch Relayer. I don't know what you'd have to have done to get them to play it, but in the unlikely event you could've succeeded, the result wouldn't have had power or drive. Sure, Jon would've been singing his heart out and Pomeroy would be enjoying himself, but I expect Rabin and Wakeman would just be sullenly going through the motions!
                          Interesting how you singled out “And You and I” on the ARW tour as a barometer for how Rabin and that particular lineup would handle other material. I thought they handled “Perpetual Change”, “Heart of the Sunrise,” “South Side of the Sky” and “Long Distance Runaround” very well. LDR was my favorite treatment of that piece by any Yes lineup. Neither Wakeman nor Rabin originally appeared on “Perpetual Change” and neither looked sullen or like they were going through the motions performing it. Relayer is a different beast but I would be so much more interested in hearing it from ARW than the current Yes. ARW had a power and energy that the current Yes simply don’t have.

                          Another irony, is there a more sullen, ill tempered, grouchy member of Yes than Steve Howe? He’s grouchy when he plays material he’s written and when it comes to eighties stuff, forget it. It’s only getting worse.
                          Last edited by Enlighten; 01-04-2023, 09:56 AM.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by kkleinschmidt View Post

                            I got a good laugh out of this comment. Other than maybe having Patrick on keys how could we ask for anything more, especially at this point? Are you suggesting ARW would have done a better job? Rick won't even try to play *anything* from Relayer! Igor might have been able to pull it off but frankly I am more impressed with Geoff's playing on Gates and RSOG than Igor's. The big thing Steve's crew brings to the table is desire - they want to play Relayer and have for a good long time and because of that I have little doubt they are practicing their behinds off to get it right.

                            Least equipped Yes lineup to play Relayer would have to be any lineup without Steve (sorry Trevor or Peter the thought of you hacking your way through this album gives me the willies) followed only by any lineup with Rick who has stated in the past that he won't play it (like I said above and he hasn't). Past that there might have been a chance with Oliver but we'll never know how that would have turned out. Benoit was a candle in the wind so he's out. JD and the other youngins will be just fine and I bet they will have a bit higher energy because of the challenge, so Steve is just going to have to hold on and get with the program.
                            What we could ask for is for them to not attempt it if they’re going to crucify it. They may not but there is a chance that they will. And if you prefer Geoff to Igor, I’m not sure what to say. Do you really think they could have pulled off the Masterworks Tour with such fire and panache with Geoff handling the keys?

                            The person who could really help this lineup is Tom Brislin but he’s been snatched up by Kansas.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Enlighten View Post
                              The current Yes will be attempting Relayer on tour this Spring. Will it be a train wreck? Will they do any abridged versions of songs? How will they pull off Sound Chaser? It seems to me that this particular lineup, of any Yes lineup, is the least equipped to handle this material. What do you all think?
                              No, I don't think it will be a train wreck. Even if they make some changes, I think I will still like it.
                              Of course, it will be fantastic if it manages to sound just as exciting and energetic as it used to but, even if it doesn't, it can still sound good!

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