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Does Rush's 2112 Belong in the Same Class as Close to the Edge and Other Yes Epics?

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    #1

    Does Rush's 2112 Belong in the Same Class as Close to the Edge and Other Yes Epics?

    Does Rush's "2112" (The song, not the album) belong in the same class as Yes' "Close to the Edge" (The song, not the album) and other Yes epics?

    I would ask that people only vote in the poll if they have heard "2112" at some point in their lives, or take the time to listen for the first time before voting.

    Also, feel free to discuss in the comments below. I would be interested in reading some takes on this that go beyond the one word poll answers. I'm not sure. I'm waiting to vote myself until I see if anyone can sway me one way or the other. I know I like "2112" and have for a long time (The album of the same name is very good as well, with the other side being 5-6 strong songs of a more normal length), but it's hard to know how to place it relative to some of the Yes songs of similar length.

    Here is the Rush song in question, in case anyone hasn't heard it and would like to:
    23
    Yes
    39.13%
    9
    No
    60.87%
    14

    The poll is expired.

    "A lot of the heavier conversations I was having with Chris toward the end were about his desire for this thing to go forward. He kept reiterating that to me. [...] He kept telling me, 'No matter what happens, Yes needs to continue moving forward and make great music. So promise me that that's something you want to do.'. And I have to keep making music. It's just what I do. [...] I'm a fan of the band and I want to see it thrive and that means new music." -Billy Sherwood
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    #2
    Of course it does. It's a stone cold classic. Well structured, well played and boy, what a finale!

    Indeed it's better than any Yes track other than CTTE or Gates and it likely ties with those two.
    Last edited by Yorkshire Square; 12-11-2021, 02:10 PM.

    Comment

      #3
      I was a big-ish fan back in the late 70s, from when All the World's a Stage came out. I think it was promoting that album that brought them over her for their first UK tour, but it's possible they came before that?
      So I saw them then at De Montfort Hall, and on all the tours after that up to and including Permanent Waves. Also saw them in Coventry, and at Bingley Hall cattleshed. Excellent performers, musicians and stage show.
      Not sure why, but I totally lost interest after Permanent Waves album and tour.
      The first album of theirs I bought was Caress of Steel. I listened to that again a few years ago out of nostalgic curiousity, and I didn't enjoy it at all. It sounded awful, frankly. I gave Moving Pictures a go too about the same time, and that didn't appeal to me either.
      Possibly, around the time of Permanent Waves, I was troubled after reading of Neil Peart's liking for Ayn Rand and her execrable philosophy, if it can be called that, but I'm not sure now.
      Sometimes the lights all shining on me, other times I can barely see.
      Lately it occurs to me what a long strange trip it’s been.

      Comment

        #4
        I would say yes, it's on par with something like Close To The Edge. It has an intro, recurring musical themes which show up throughout the piece, instrumental bits, and a finale track which brings it all back home. It depends on your outlook on Rush's classic album, some may say CTTE is a rock symphony and 2112 is a rock suite. I say it has the boldness of any good Yes material, especially for a power trio who, only three years prior, were a Zeppelin/Who influenced hard rock group. It didn't take them long to approach Yes' level of skill.

        However, when you think about it, 2112 actually has more in common with the Fly From Here suite, in that it's made up individual songs strung together in a conceptual suite, rather than one long piece like CTTE. 2112 is six or seven separate tracks. Close To The Edge is more like one long track with 'movements', like a symphony. 2112 is more like a suite or ballet with individual chapters presented as a long songs-within-the-song. I enjoy both for different reasons.

        In fact, all of Rush' side-long epics follow this kind of song cycle/suite format. 'The Fountain Of Lamneth' from Caress Of Steel follows a similar structure to 2112. The 'Fear' trilogy was just separate tracks spread across different albums and only came together when played in sequence live in concert. I suppose Hemispheres(the track, not the album) is the only one closest to the CTTE suite in format, rather than 2112. The ethereal Battle Of The Heart And Mind section of Hemispheres is not too unlike the 'I Get Up I Get Down' section of Close To The Edge. Then somehow we got the naked starman guy from 2112 on the cover of Going For The One, so the two groups are kindred spirits in terms of creativity and bold artistic moves, especially around this time period.

        I say sure, it's on par. Plus 2112 has a story you can actually follow.

        Comment

          #5
          I love 2112. I've never really thought about the song 2112 vs the song Close to the Edge. They are both so great. If I had to pick one, I think I would go with Close to the Edge. I think 2112 is a little more kick a$$, but I think there is something a little more interesting musically happening on CTTE. The bass/drum interplay during the verses, plus Wakeman's playing and the vocals, for me, give CTTE an "edge" .
          But I love the song 2112 and I still enjoy playing it very loud through my PA.

          Comment

            #6
            Absolutely not. As big a Rush fan as I am, 2112 is musically strong, but lyrically pretty dopey. Which, fair enough, it sounds like a song written by bummed out high school dudes, because it pretty much was. And sure, it was the last gasp album by a band about to be let go after not delivering on three albums, so it’s “fuck the system, man!” vibe makes sense, if it isn’t especially interesting. I do like it, but as mentioned abound, it’s a series of songs stuck together, and as soundwaveseeker says, more like FFH.

            In truth, I find all of Rush’s epics to be pretty week, like briefly summarized book reports that lay out enough footnotes so you’re impressed with their research. But then they pull off a Subdivisions or a Natural Science, and woo boy, are they cooking.
            • Likes 1

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              #7
              I love 2112 a lot, lots of power and emotion everything a massive prog epic should have and very worthy to stand next to Close to the Edge, as its (near) equal.
              The Definitive YES Albums

              -The Yes Album-Fragile-Close to the Edge-Tales From Topographic Oceans-
              -Relayer-Going for the One-Drama-90125-Big Generator-Union-Talk-
              -The Ladder-Magnification-Fly From Here-The Quest-
              • Likes 1

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                #8
                Only if it’s instrumental.

                Sorry, that’s a cheap shot. I’ve never heard it. With Rush I never got past the vocals that rub me the wrong way.
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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Ceasar’s Palace View Post
                  Only if it’s instrumental.

                  Sorry, that’s a cheap shot. I’ve never heard it. With Rush I never got past the vocals that rub me the wrong way.
                  This - No.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Ceasar’s Palace View Post
                    Only if it’s instrumental.

                    Sorry, that’s a cheap shot. I’ve never heard it. With Rush I never got past the vocals that rub me the wrong way.
                    The funny thing is that I have a couple of friends who say they can't get past Anderson's singing. I think both are great!
                    • Likes 1

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by yamishogun View Post

                      The funny thing is that I have a couple of friends who say they can't get past Anderson's singing. I think both are great!
                      Over the years I have known many people who have told me they are not big Rush fans due to the voice of the lead singer - but I have also come across quite a few who have shared the same sentiment about Yes.
                      • Likes 1

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by yamishogun View Post

                        The funny thing is that I have a couple of friends who say they can't get past Anderson's singing. I think both are great!
                        Mr Yami
                        i sent you a private message to try and clear the air from the old YesFanS and Start anew here. Not sure if you saw it. If not. Please read. Take care.
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                          #13
                          It's up there but not quite in the same league as CTTE, GoD or SR.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            I voted no. CTTE is in its own class IMHO. If I were a Rush fan first, and liked Yes, I’m sure it would be the opposite. Lol.

                            I realize the question was if they were in the same class but I just can’t do it.

                            Dont get me wrong. I listened to most all of my Caress of Steel thru Hemispheres this morn and aft. Inspired by he thread. And I love it. Love the Rush epics. Cygnus II more. But when the CTTE album and song are your fav it’s just not fair.

                            And Rush is just Rush. Excellent. Their sound is class of their own also.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Gtkgasman View Post
                              I voted no. CTTE is in its own class IMHO. If I were a Rush fan first, and liked Yes, I’m sure it would be the opposite. Lol.

                              I realize the question was if they were in the same class but I just can’t do it.

                              Dont get me wrong. I listened to most all of my Caress of Steel thru Hemispheres this morn and aft. Inspired by he thread. And I love it. Love the Rush epics. Cygnus II more. But when the CTTE album and song are your fav it’s just not fair.

                              And Rush is just Rush. Excellent. Their sound is class of their own also.
                              Caress of Steel is an undervalued gem, The Fountain of Lamneth especially. Of all the side-long Rush epics, I like it the most, because it resists answering its own questions. And maybe that's why I don't put 2112 in the same league as CttE: it has a settled point of view which strikes me as simplistic in the end. Temples of Syrinx = bad. Protagonist = good. Hemispheres the same: overly didactic to conclude hand and heart go together. CttE, though, I've been playing that one for 35 years, and I still have no idea what it's on about, which is great: it doesn't sit still, but builds upon itself, returns, reframes, reconsiders, where Rush epics tend to go forth linearly. Still love them, but wish they pulled in some of the ambiguity of their shorter tunes into the epics.
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