Q: Steve Howe has no "guitar heir"...Is Yes "done" after Steve's done?

[bondegezou]

Interesting that there was some sort of legal agreement as far back as 1984. However, I find it ludicrous that if you left the band, you were not allowed to mention you were ever in the band. I mean, I could see some stipulation about not being allowed to say that you were a continuation of the band or were the real band or something like that, but to be forbidden from ever mentioning you were in it? Sheesh. That’s extreme.

It wasn't, AIUI, that you were banned from mentioning it, but you couldn't use the fact prominently in how you promoted your music. A poster saying "Jon Anderson of YES singing live" was not allowed, but talking about being a member in an interview to promote the tour, sure.

[downbyariver]

Anyone can play anything they want live.

For most intents and purposes, yes, but technically, no (at least in the United States).

Excerpted from: http://www.askamusiclawyer.com/archi...ic-venues.html

Performing copyrighted songs implicates the copyright owner's exclusive right to publicly perform a work and to authorize others to publicly perform it. Public performances of copyrighted music at live music venues, with limited exceptions, require payment. However, it is generally the responsibility of the venue owner (i.e., the presenter of the public performance), not the performer, to obtain a public performance license and pay any required licensing fees.

As a practical matter, venue owners obtain blanket licenses from the performing rights organizations (ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC, in the U.S.) to have the right to present musical performances at their venues. That's because it's not feasible for venue owners to research the ownership of each song and negotiate individual public performance licenses. (Imagine the venue owner requiring you to give them your set list weeks in advance and making you promise not to deviate from the list!)

So, for the most part it's not really a concern for the people playing the cover, and from what I've heard the royalties the original song writers get from live covers that aren't transmitted or recorded are pretty miniscule.

[mikemiller48]

One could actually see the first tour or two dictating whether Yes could carry on basically as it has been, has to scale down to doing state fairs and festivals while recording at Billy's studio, packs it in, or anything in between those three scenarios. Promoters will be watching, too- and that's really who determines what options you have for subsequent tours.

So, I also see the argument for a "safe" pick to make sure things keep going. Haun isn't going to rejuvenate the band, but he also isn't going to fall on his face live. He'd continue to offer a similar experience on stage to what people see today.

I would be on board with them continuing post-Howe (not that they asked, haha). If we postulate Steve hanging on another five years, well, that time goes by pretty quickly. I would argue that the post-Anderson In the Present tour was a larger risk. They couldn't have known if that would fly long-term or consign them to laughable Ted-Nugent-circuit status.

Incidentally, Yes was one of the main stage acts at the Wisconsin State Fair in 2013.

Cheers,
Mike

[Mr. Holland]

Ideally Anderson and Howe would truly rediscover their friendship. For the sake of themselves. I remember the body language during the last few tours with Anderson and Howe, Steve seemed very unhappy on stage. Steve Howe has been much happier-looking on stage since then. So I don't want them to re-unite for the sake of a paycheck. But I could see a situation in which promoters offer better compensation if there could be a tour with both Anderson and Howe. Yes have never done a farewell tour, I'd enjoy seeing some dates which included the current official band plus people like Kaye, Moraz, Benoit, Horn, and of course Anderson, Wakeman and Rabin. I know that will not happen, I'd just like to see it. Just think about the vocal possibilities if every lead singer of the band was on stage. They could do Leave It without tapes. But I'm getting very carried away here!

Rediscovering their friendship might mean NOT working together anymore, because working together might actually get in the way of friendship .

Just last month Howe said in an interview:

"I love Jon Anderson and I believe we have an understanding and an immense respect for each other. But the difficulties of trying to work together are too great."

[RedSonja]

Just thinking about Alan today. Just kind of heavy... both what he means to YES (a hell of a lot), and what "YES" means with one member left from the 1970s.

The band had an "heir apparent" for both Chris Squire / bass, AND drums with Jay Schellen.

But what happens after Steve's done? What does / can YES actually "mean" in the 2020s and beyond...when NO members in the band are left from the halcyon days of YES in the 1970s...???


-Douglas

They are finished now. The OTSWOF example, recent albums, etc, is what we have become accustomed too and is a harbinger of the inevitable to come. Retire the name

[Olorin]

Interesting that there was some sort of legal agreement as far back as 1984. However, I find it ludicrous that if you left the band, you were not allowed to mention you were ever in the band. I mean, I could see some stipulation about not being allowed to say that you were a continuation of the band or were the real band or something like that, but to be forbidden from ever mentioning you were in it? Sheesh. That’s extreme.

[Frumious B]

Not even in the ABHW era? I thought legal action, or the threat thereof, was why ABWH called themselves that instead of Yes, and why they called their tour An Evening of Yes Music, Plus..." so as not to seem to be calling the then-new songs Yes songs.

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Anderson_Bruford_Wakeman_Howe

“On 31 May 1989, weeks before the release of their album and tour, the group were subject to a suit filed by Yes that wished to prevent Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe from mentioning the name "Yes" in their promotional material, suggesting or calling attention to Yes music, which they argued may cause "confusion in the minds of the public over which group is the real Yes", and prohibiting Anderson from speaking of his former membership in Yes.^[14] The suit was based on a separation agreement entered into by each past and present member of Yes in May 1984 that specified who was entitled to use the Yes name; any "withdrawing partner" from the group could no longer use the name or mention they were in the band before, after a specified date. Yes argued that Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe had "wrongfully converted" the Yes name in an advertisement for Los Angeles Times that promoted their upcoming concert as "an evening of Yes music plus".^[14] Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe filed a response on 5 June; their attorneys called Yes's suit "an outrageous attempt ... to stop the media and public from comparing ABWH's new recording with theirs".^[14]According to former Yes tour co-ordinator Jim Halley, "the European promoters began splashing the name Yes all over the posters ... in the end they came to an accommodation".^[3] Anderson stressed, "wenever said we were Yes. It was the record company."^[3] In June 1989, a U.S District Court judge ruled that ABWH could refer to its Yes heritage and material in promoting their tour.^[15]”

[Olorin]

They're not currently. Anyone can play anything they want live. You can't pass yourself off as Yes, but it would be up to Yes to take legal action if they were concerned, and I don't think they have.

Not even in the ABHW era? I thought legal action, or the threat thereof, was why ABWH called themselves that instead of Yes, and why they called their tour An Evening of Yes Music, Plus..." so as not to seem to be calling the then-new songs Yes songs.

[pjt]

I guess tribute bands for other acts of Yes's era are so numerous, taking action against one would probably trigger action against all, depending on the territory in which they operate? And it is free publicity of a sort I guess?

Copyright law allows you to play live anything you want. If you want to publish it, then it's a different category.

[Ash Armstrong]

They're not currently. Anyone can play anything they want live. You can't pass yourself off as Yes, but it would be up to Yes to take legal action if they were concerned, and I don't think they have.

I guess tribute bands for other acts of Yes's era are so numerous, taking action against one would probably trigger action against all, depending on the territory in which they operate? And it is free publicity of a sort I guess?

[bondegezou]

Do they have to be 'authorised' by the copyright holders/owners?

They're not currently. Anyone can play anything they want live. You can't pass yourself off as Yes, but it would be up to Yes to take legal action if they were concerned, and I don't think they have.

[Ash Armstrong]

Do we know how many Yes tribute bands there are active, on both sides of the Pond, at the moment? Do they have to be 'authorised' by the copyright holders/owners?

[pjt]

Yes, the same here. I even think, although I admit it's pure speculation on my part, it plays a role in the formation of Arc of Life; to have already established a format where Davison, Sherwood and Schellen can continue working together. They'll have their own music and no doubt live will play a few Yes songs, after Yes has ended.

And don't forget Jimmy Haun. He is well capable to play Steve's parts as we have heard on Union on Circa: live.

Edit: Already discussed, of course
Anyway...

[Soundwaveseeker]

I guess that's why I mooted the question of Sherwood or Davison taking over the guitar duties upthread. I don't think either of them is nearly as good a guitarist as Howe, nor could they come close to pretending to play like Howe (a la Haun). But they have the Yes spirit, and to me at least, have a proper claim to the Yes legacy and identify.

By the way, I doubt many folks here have listened to the 'new' Flash album from 2013, but the original Flash bassist Ray Bennett (an excellent Squire-style bassist by the way) took over as guitar on the new album. He has very much his own style, quite different from Banks, but the recipe worked for me. The new Carter-Bennett Flash is not that much like the Banks Flash, but still very good and legitimate in my eyes.

I remember that Flash album from 2013. Haven't heard it in a while. Interesting how in the 2000's a number of albums from pre-Yes and original Yes related outfits started showing up: The Syn, Flash Featuring Carter/Bennett, Mabel Greer's Toyshop. Yeah, it was like a more 'mature' Flash and Bennet's guitar wasn't too shabby at all. Colin Carter's voice was less over the top than before. That's an album that came and went, and they never continued after that one album. I'm not sure who else has heard it. They did a cover of a Nine Inch Nails song (!). I suppose without Peter Banks, interest in a Flash without him was limited.

[YesWill]

It's interesting that folks sometimes give a lot of thought to some person who had been in the Yes orbit in the past (Haun for example) - but there are countless guitarists who could play the Steve Howe parts very well. In the event Yes were looking for a new guitarist, its possible they could find one who not only plays, but sings and writes songs. But if Steve Howe were to leave the band, then there would be no one remaining who had been involved with either the classic 70's albums or the 80's albums, and then you'd have a Yes which would be several degrees from the Yes on those records.

I guess that's why I mooted the question of Sherwood or Davison taking over the guitar duties upthread. I don't think either of them is nearly as good a guitarist as Howe, nor could they come close to pretending to play like Howe (a la Haun). But they have the Yes spirit, and to me at least, have a proper claim to the Yes legacy and identify.

By the way, I doubt many folks here have listened to the 'new' Flash album from 2013, but the original Flash bassist Ray Bennett (an excellent Squire-style bassist by the way) took over as guitar on the new album. He has very much his own style, quite different from Banks, but the recipe worked for me. The new Carter-Bennett Flash is not that much like the Banks Flash, but still very good and legitimate in my eyes.