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Q: Steve Howe has no "guitar heir"...Is Yes "done" after Steve's done?

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  • bondegezou
    replied
    Originally posted by Enlighten View Post

    It’s so interesting to observe a bunch of folks here get their tail feathers ruffled by my comments about capitalism and not consider the way we actually do capitalism. As if there’s only one way. I’d ask you Kenny, how free is our so called free market capitalism? How free is our so called free press, which is inextricably linked to our free market capitalism? How free has our so called democratic government been to actually enforce anti-trust laws, which were actually installed to prevent the kind of bs we’ve seen gain more traction decade after decade. Any system can move towards tyranny and authoritarianism. Take a look at the world, the new tyrants are billionaire oligarchs and we’ve got our version of that in the good old USA. Those billionaire oligarchs are calling the shots as to how our free market is actually working. You good with that?
    I don't want to get into a broader political discussion, but I do agree that there are alternatives to how we do things and, indeed, there are many alternative forms of capitalism. (Of course, you could say the capitalism in the UK is already somewhat different to the capitalism in the US, etc.)

    So, the question might then arise: would people want there to be a different way of assigning band names than that we have at present? Who would make the determinations? Would people want to see a system where a government-appointed body rules on who got to call themselves "Yes". Should this system only apply to music and other artistic enterprises? Would other businesses come under these new rules, so who owned the name of a popular restaurant wasn't something that could be sold, but was something that a quasi-judicial system assigned to someone(s)?

    Leave a comment:


  • bondegezou
    replied
    Originally posted by Kenny View Post
    Without capitalism, there would be no music industry. Name a Communist country, or one governed by Marxists, that has had a thriving music industry. The Soviet and Chinese authorities sought to suppress rock and pop music.

    The alternative to free market capitalism is totalitarian crap. Under socialism, music is a tool to enforce obedience and subservience to the ruling classes' authoritarian ideology and their privileged lifestyle.
    I suggest a biography of Dmitri Shostakovich would demonstrate that music under communism was not all terrible. The Soviet and Chinese authorities at times sought to suppress rock and pop music, but not always. The Soviet prog rock band Horizont might appear to Yes fans. Music can thrive and has thrived in many contexts. Indeed, communism/Marxism is not the only alternative to capitalism, and music has thrived under all sorts of systems around the world and down through the millennia.

    But my point was not to critique capitalism. It was to point out that who gets to call themselves "Yes" is part and parcel of a set of broader rules that govern society.

    Leave a comment:


  • Frumious B
    replied
    Or if Anderson wanted to troll Drama fans: Jon Anderson: Answers To Yes.

    Leave a comment:


  • bondegezou
    replied
    Originally posted by Ash Armstrong View Post
    'reform Yes' in the sense of assembling a group of musicians to play Yesmusic live, presumably, rather than a soon-to-be-78-year-old attempting to put together a viable, creative group of like-minded musicians to make new music for however long he still has? Talk sense man!

    No one individual still living has more right to put together a band to play classic Yesmusic than Jon Anderson, and to call it Yes. No one.
    That may true for some sort of abstract, moral right, but he doesn't appear to have a legal right to call it (just) Yes, whereas Howe and possibly Downes do. I return to my previous point. We can say these things about who truly deserves the name, but we live in a law-based, contract-based, capitalist society under which ownership of a band name is not tied to an individual's history with the work of that band, but to contractual arrangements. If Anderson put together a band and called it "Yes", he would probably be in danger of losing a lawsuit to Howe.

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  • bondegezou
    replied
    Originally posted by Gilly Goodness View Post
    In days of yore, musicians and actors were paid in kind. Lodgin's. Chickens. Mead. The very good ones won royal patronage. The King's Men of whom Willy Waggle Dagger was one, for example.. This allowed him to devote his time completely to writin' and memorisin' thousands of lines a month. Of his and other writers. Theatre owners of which WWD was one also made money by chargin' a tiered system of tickets. So anybody could roll up for 3 hours durin' their day of servitude and expect to get a ticket. High prices for seats. Cheap prices to stand in front as a groundlin'. So from entertain' a court, the same works could be performed for the masses. You have to cover all the costs of the production, esp. Costumes and prop machinery. Amateurs still performed locally for religious festivals and special feast days.

    So unless your favourite musician wants to perform for free, you have to pay the piper. And his landlord, manager, personal assistant, PR person, masseuse, publishin' company. It has been a business for centuries.
    It has been a business for millennia, not just centuries. That said, rules around intellectual property are much more recent, in particular rules saying designated songwriters get income from a song and a band name is a thing that can be owned, bought and sold.

    Leave a comment:


  • Frumious B
    replied
    Billionaires are individual people too. Silly to paint them as evil thieves or whatever. McCartney is worth $1.5 billion. I guess he’s stealing from me by continuing to sell me Beatles crap.

    And “oh no!”…I ordered it on Amazon.

    Leave a comment:


  • Enlighten
    replied
    Originally posted by Kenny View Post

    Without capitalism, there would be no music industry. Name a Communist country, or one governed by Marxists, that has had a thriving music industry. The Soviet and Chinese authorities sought to suppress rock and pop music.

    The alternative to free market capitalism is totalitarian crap. Under socialism, music is a tool to enforce obedience and subservience to the ruling classes' authoritarian ideology and their privileged lifestyle.
    It’s so interesting to observe a bunch of folks here get their tail feathers ruffled by my comments about capitalism and not consider the way we actually do capitalism. As if there’s only one way. I’d ask you Kenny, how free is our so called free market capitalism? How free is our so called free press, which is inextricably linked to our free market capitalism? How free has our so called democratic government been to actually enforce anti-trust laws, which were actually installed to prevent the kind of bs we’ve seen gain more traction decade after decade. Any system can move towards tyranny and authoritarianism. Take a look at the world, the new tyrants are billionaire oligarchs and we’ve got our version of that in the good old USA. Those billionaire oligarchs are calling the shots as to how our free market is actually working. You good with that?

    Leave a comment:


  • Frumious B
    replied
    Originally posted by Ash Armstrong View Post

    I don't really care whether he does or not, to be honest, but he could if he chose to. But it's probably academic: after this forthcoming Band Geeks tour I'm not expecting him to be this active again. His hammock beckons...
    Shrug…we don’t know what his bank account looks like or what his overall health is. IMHO as long as he can sound this good singing “And You And I” there is absolutely no reason for him to stop:

    Folks keep shuffling Anderson and Howe off the stage to retirement, but I get the sense that they are both going to keep going as long as they can until something unforeseen forces them to stop. It seems like music is just what they do. Could they be happy without it?

    Leave a comment:


  • Kenny
    replied
    Originally posted by Enlighten View Post

    We’re talking apples and oranges. I’m referring to the music and one could make a very compelling case that the cold, calculating strictures of capitalism have debased and degraded the music that is produced by the music industry. Thank god for independent platforms and musicians being able to release their own music.
    Without capitalism, there would be no music industry. Name a Communist country, or one governed by Marxists, that has had a thriving music industry. The Soviet and Chinese authorities sought to suppress rock and pop music.

    The alternative to free market capitalism is totalitarian crap. Under socialism, music is a tool to enforce obedience and subservience to the ruling classes' authoritarian ideology and their privileged lifestyle.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ash Armstrong
    replied
    Originally posted by Frumious B View Post
    The problem with Anderson just calling it Yes is that there has been a Yes touring for 14 years without him and he would want folks to know that he is in it. Something like Jon Anderson Visions of Yes sounds cooler than to me than Yes Featuring Jon Anderson or Jon Anderson’s Yes. His upcoming tour is called Yes Epics and Classics Featuring Jon Anderson. I like Visions of Yes better.
    I don't really care whether he does or not, to be honest, but he could if he chose to. But it's probably academic: after this forthcoming Band Geeks tour I'm not expecting him to be this active again. His hammock beckons...

    Leave a comment:


  • Frumious B
    replied
    The problem with Anderson just calling it Yes is that there has been a Yes touring for 14 years without him and he would want folks to know that he is in it. Something like Jon Anderson Visions of Yes sounds cooler than to me than Yes Featuring Jon Anderson or Jon Anderson’s Yes. His upcoming tour is called Yes Epics and Classics Featuring Jon Anderson. I like Visions of Yes better.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ash Armstrong
    replied
    Originally posted by HankCPA View Post
    I agree that Jon Anderson would try to reform Yes if Steve Howe retires. And that is so tragic.
    'reform Yes' in the sense of assembling a group of musicians to play Yesmusic live, presumably, rather than a soon-to-be-78-year-old attempting to put together a viable, creative group of like-minded musicians to make new music for however long he still has? Talk sense man!

    No one individual still living has more right to put together a band to play classic Yesmusic than Jon Anderson, and to call it Yes. No one.

    Leave a comment:


  • josuev80
    replied
    Originally posted by HankCPA View Post
    I agree that Jon Anderson would try to reform Yes if Steve Howe retires. And that is so tragic.
    What would be so tragic about it?

    Leave a comment:


  • HankCPA
    replied
    I agree that Jon Anderson would try to reform Yes if Steve Howe retires. And that is so tragic.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gilly Goodness
    replied
    In days of yore, musicians and actors were paid in kind. Lodgin's. Chickens. Mead. The very good ones won royal patronage. The King's Men of whom Willy Waggle Dagger was one, for example.. This allowed him to devote his time completely to writin' and memorisin' thousands of lines a month. Of his and other writers. Theatre owners of which WWD was one also made money by chargin' a tiered system of tickets. So anybody could roll up for 3 hours durin' their day of servitude and expect to get a ticket. High prices for seats. Cheap prices to stand in front as a groundlin'. So from entertain' a court, the same works could be performed for the masses. You have to cover all the costs of the production, esp. Costumes and prop machinery. Amateurs still performed locally for religious festivals and special feast days.

    So unless your favourite musician wants to perform for free, you have to pay the piper. And his landlord, manager, personal assistant, PR person, masseuse, publishin' company. It has been a business for centuries.

    Leave a comment:

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