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2000-2008: What Went WRONG For "Classic YES"?

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  • agentarmstrong
    replied
    "Change, We Must."

    Leave a comment:


  • michelle johnston
    replied
    April 1968

    I wake up to the sound of the Mill Siren going off in Skipton.
    Jon Anderson borrows £500 from the mill owner.

    February 1971.

    I watch Disco 2 in the common room of my school. Yes are on and play a piece where the intro goes on forever bah ba ba bah. I grow to like it and I buy the album take it home for the summer holiday and listen it every day. I see a Melody Maker in London with the news on the front page that Rick Wakeman is joining Yes.

    May 1975

    Front Row at Colston Hall for UK Tour. I am working for Barclays Bank. I buy Beethoven's 5th Symphony.

    July 1984

    Yes concert at Wembley. I attend with a Legal Executive who I work with in a large Financial Services Company. I am buying Sibelius Seven Symphonies. I am married for the second time.

    August 2001

    On an episodic holiday across Canada with my two children and partner I attend Yes's Symphonic Concert at Vancouver. I have my own Financial Services Business and listen to Miles Davis, Frank Sinatra and Sing in a Church Choir.

    June 2004

    Attend Yes concert with friends at Wembley and walk out, the sound is so bad up in the tiers. I am divorced and listen to Krall, Streisand, Shostakovich and Stravinsky.

    November 2009

    Attend Yes concert in Colston Hall Bristol the beginning of nine years of attending with Yes fans met on the Internet. I am heavily involved in a second career of property restoration. During this period I begin extensive travelling. I listen to Awaken at the bottom of a Glacier (Matuktucki) as the sun emerges in New Zealand and walk the deserted beaches and the backcountry with my I Pod. Very rarely listening to Yes.


    March 2018

    Fly back to England to attend the two Palladium Concerts and a fan afternoon. Completely underwhelmed, though its great to see several Yes fans I admire (more for their work than their fandom).

    The first half of the concert is the same old, same old except they played Onward live. I enjoyed the second half with Oceans.

    June 2022

    The band switch out of Relayer and opt to promote CTTE50. I give my tickets away and fly to Lombok for Scuba Diving and Mountain Climbing. When I arrive in the UK I do not do the 400 mile round trip to York but go to a revelatory performance of Richard III at the RSC Stratford. I leave the UK and fly to Switzerland and attend four concerts of the Menuhin Festival that are sensational. I fly home and as always the back ground to my day is Radio 3 interspersed with Plant /Krauss, Opera, Shakti among many.


    My point

    We change and evolve.

    Steve, Chris and Jon are/were musicians for life but when I consider how much I have changed during my life I think it’s a miracle they worked together as long as they did. That is what makes Alan, whose photo location for the GFTO cover I found a few weeks ago, so honourable he stuck at it all his professional life despite the tensions around him and tensions, which are entirely understandable.

    My only regret is I wish the guys would answer questions about why? with “come on we all change, whatever. and we have fantastic memories." and so do I.






























    Last edited by michelle johnston; 09-25-2022, 01:45 AM.

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  • alex peters
    replied
    Originally posted by luvyesmusic View Post

    Jon was very ill for a long time. There is no disputing that. That is a fact, whether you want to believe it or not. Again, I have been a breath a way from Jon on a few occasions, and front row many others. I listened to and observed the man. I was in tune with his singing. I watched when he was in bad shape, and when he was recovering/improving on subsequent recordings. I listened to, felt his pain, when he told the audience what he went through.

    What I actually wrote was my timeline was vague ( it has been quite a while ) and it would be nice to go back and look at some of the old posts and threads on the old YES-fans com. ( I'm pretty sure there were some cancelled shows and posts about them by folks who were suppose to go)had tickets ). I actually wrote that he went into the hospital a day or two after the Philly show. Then about four days later, he spent three or four days in the hospital.

    Did I get actual updates on his hospitalizations and surgery/surgeries from Paul, Janee, Deborah, Jade or Damion? Of course not. Folks shared what was known. or appropriate to share. Of course actual details were sparse because it was really none of our buisness, say for missed shows, and then even then.

    Going back and revisiting things like the tour, Jon's illness, or anything for that matter is wasted energy. Like someone told me recently, he couldn't be in two places in history at once. ( Can you be two places at once in the now. You certainly can. I once was so relaxed leading and winning a motorcycle race, that I actually had an out of body experience, where I came up out of myself, watching me ride my bike and navigate the corners while I was above and behind myself-sounds like one of Jon's dimension stories, doesn't it? Truth! ) Are we privy to all actual facts when it comes to one of our favorite bands, and all the individuals involved? Absolutely not! As someone recently posted "pure speculation". What we do know it was a gamble to begin with with the size of the venues, Jon became ill, and then very ill, and the tour didn't happen.

    Look, I tend to simmer quite a bit with all the stupidity that goes on around me, and within the country, and much if the world, my wife, bad drivers, etc, etc . I can talk and explain things, Alex, but I never try to constantly butt heads. It's no good for anyone. Do I feel it's right that you were called all kinds of names, and folks felt they were entitled to on another thread/,threads? Absolutely not. I do like how you came back and wouldn't put up with any crap, but there is a time and a place Would I think twice if I had to put someone down, or hold them until authorities came back in my younger days when I was fit, trained strong, and had great reflexes? Absolutely not. But that is ALWAYS last resort. Talking, negotiating, being diplomatic, trying to put yourself in someone else's shoes, redirecting energy and coming into situations in a calm manner is always best. That goes for anyone. And if course there are times when you come across low i q., violent folks, sometimes on something where it is best to just avoid. Always evaluate situations, and safety, and do what is best.

    And when it comes to this place, which use to be full of amazing and of course really diverse good people at one time ( and it is fantastic seeing more folks show up ( Hi, Jeremy-I know I spelled it wrong it has been a very long time), and continuing reading and interacting with Arno and Erik, while fantastic, sometimes we all need to take a deep breath, or maybe a break from this place. Thanks to John, this place is still going, and will be here if folks take a break. YES and talking about YES, and all the other things here should not be about ugliness. There is more than enough of that around us to some degree, that no one can escape.

    Cheers, everyone! Thanks for being here, and thanks for those new who have joined/contributed. Nothing lasts forever, and it has been one heck of a long, and dysfunctional YES and all things YES-related ride. Everyone knows that. ;-)

    ​​​​
    Your a fine chap Mr. Luvyesmusic. Your defending mine and others freedom of speech is appreciated and commendable.

    Leave a comment:


  • luvyesmusic
    replied
    Originally posted by alex peters View Post

    Relax Mr. Somis Sound. MR. luvyesmusic said Anderson went into the hospital for 3 or 4 days after the Philly show. I said he was mistaken as Jon did 3 shows in the next 5 days after the Philly show and then another show that month in March and then 3 days in a row on April 8, 9, and 10 in California in 3 different cities .

    He was mistaken. The post you reference is basically all factual.. No conspiracy theory.. Just alot of coincidence


    The rest of what you are saying is all hearsay hearsay hearsay
    Jon was very ill for a long time. There is no disputing that. That is a fact, whether you want to believe it or not. Again, I have been a breath a way from Jon on a few occasions, and front row many others. I listened to and observed the man. I was in tune with his singing. I watched when he was in bad shape, and when he was recovering/improving on subsequent recordings. I listened to, felt his pain, when he told the audience what he went through.

    What I actually wrote was my timeline was vague ( it has been quite a while ) and it would be nice to go back and look at some of the old posts and threads on the old YES-fans com. ( I'm pretty sure there were some cancelled shows and posts about them by folks who were suppose to go)had tickets ). I actually wrote that he went into the hospital a day or two after the Philly show. Then about four days later, he spent three or four days in the hospital.

    Did I get actual updates on his hospitalizations and surgery/surgeries from Paul, Janee, Deborah, Jade or Damion? Of course not. Folks shared what was known. or appropriate to share. Of course actual details were sparse because it was really none of our buisness, say for missed shows, and then even then.

    Going back and revisiting things like the tour, Jon's illness, or anything for that matter is wasted energy. Like someone told me recently, he couldn't be in two places in history at once. ( Can you be two places at once in the now. You certainly can. I once was so relaxed leading and winning a motorcycle race, that I actually had an out of body experience, where I came up out of myself, watching me ride my bike and navigate the corners while I was above and behind myself-sounds like one of Jon's dimension stories, doesn't it? Truth! ) Are we privy to all actual facts when it comes to one of our favorite bands, and all the individuals involved? Absolutely not! As someone recently posted "pure speculation". What we do know it was a gamble to begin with with the size of the venues, Jon became ill, and then very ill, and the tour didn't happen.

    Look, I tend to simmer quite a bit with all the stupidity that goes on around me, and within the country, and much if the world, my wife, bad drivers, etc, etc . I can talk and explain things, Alex, but I never try to constantly butt heads. It's no good for anyone. Do I feel it's right that you were called all kinds of names, and folks felt they were entitled to on another thread/,threads? Absolutely not. I do like how you came back and wouldn't put up with any crap, but there is a time and a place Would I think twice if I had to put someone down, or hold them until authorities came back in my younger days when I was fit, trained strong, and had great reflexes? Absolutely not. But that is ALWAYS last resort. Talking, negotiating, being diplomatic, trying to put yourself in someone else's shoes, redirecting energy and coming into situations in a calm manner is always best. That goes for anyone. And if course there are times when you come across low i q., violent folks, sometimes on something where it is best to just avoid. Always evaluate situations, and safety, and do what is best.

    And when it comes to this place, which use to be full of amazing and of course really diverse good people at one time ( and it is fantastic seeing more folks show up ( Hi, Jeremy-I know I spelled it wrong it has been a very long time), and continuing reading and interacting with Arno and Erik, while fantastic, sometimes we all need to take a deep breath, or maybe a break from this place. Thanks to John, this place is still going, and will be here if folks take a break. YES and talking about YES, and all the other things here should not be about ugliness. There is more than enough of that around us to some degree, that no one can escape.

    Cheers, everyone! Thanks for being here, and thanks for those new who have joined/contributed. Nothing lasts forever, and it has been one heck of a long, and dysfunctional YES and all things YES-related ride. Everyone knows that. ;-)

    ​​​​
    Last edited by luvyesmusic; 09-23-2022, 08:31 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • alex peters
    replied
    Originally posted by Somis Sound View Post

    YOU are mistaken. And YOU are making a conspiracy theory just right here above in your post. Look dude, I spent a lot of time with Deborah at the time, and spent some time with Squire and White on a few different occasions. I can tell you 100% fact is that Jon did come off stage with a blanket at a solo show right before he got even worse, that he was in a hospital, that he did die for a few minutes and was resuscitated, it was no stunt to get out of the tour, that the other guys did NOT agree to his demands for the CTTEABT, and there was extreme bad vibes and relations. They had meetings with someone during the "negotiations" on Jon's demand, to replace him then! Or to put a fire under his feet and get back down to Earth on his demands. This DID happen and it was renegotiated after said events when he came to his senses and heard what was going on. Also I did see Beniot at the SAME location the CTTEABT was booked on the ITP Tour. YOU are mistaken, again. And it is a big venue... Here is the link:
    http://forgotten-yesterdays.com/index.asp

    You are correct the CTTEABT didn't sell many tickets and was most likely going to be re-booked and rescheduled, but all this other conspiracy theory and claims is just bizarre. Take a deep breath and pop on your favorite Yes album and let it go dude...
    Relax Mr. Somis Sound. MR. luvyesmusic said Anderson went into the hospital for 3 or 4 days after the Philly show. I said he was mistaken as Jon did 3 shows in the next 5 days after the Philly show and then another show that month in March and then 3 days in a row on April 8, 9, and 10 in California in 3 different cities .

    He was mistaken. The post you reference is basically all factual.. No conspiracy theory.. Just alot of coincidence


    The rest of what you are saying is all hearsay hearsay hearsay
    Last edited by alex peters; 09-23-2022, 06:02 PM.

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  • Somis Sound
    replied
    Originally posted by alex peters View Post


    The 2008 tour was just over a month away from starting. Rehearsals were about to begin with a new keys player. The band as a whole had not played together in 4 years

    And then just at that moment right before rehearsals Anderson has the greatest health crisis of his lifetime. Some say asthma. Some say respiratory failure. Some say he was dead and resuscitated. Some say pancreatitis. Some say all of the above.

    Do you know what the odds of that happening at that moment? 1 in 10,000 .


    Alot of $ had been spent leading up to this huge production. If there was no insurance policy for the cancellation someone was going to lose alot of pesos.

    There are no conspiracies theories and there are no coincidences.
    YOU are mistaken. And YOU are making a conspiracy theory just right here above in your post. Look dude, I spent a lot of time with Deborah at the time, and spent some time with Squire and White on a few different occasions. I can tell you 100% fact is that Jon did come off stage with a blanket at a solo show right before he got even worse, that he was in a hospital, that he did die for a few minutes and was resuscitated, it was no stunt to get out of the tour, that the other guys did NOT agree to his demands for the CTTEABT, and there was extreme bad vibes and relations. They had meetings with someone during the "negotiations" on Jon's demand, to replace him then! Or to put a fire under his feet and get back down to Earth on his demands. This DID happen and it was renegotiated after said events when he came to his senses and heard what was going on. Also I did see Beniot at the SAME location the CTTEABT was booked on the ITP Tour. YOU are mistaken, again. And it is a big venue... Here is the link:
    http://forgotten-yesterdays.com/index.asp

    You are correct the CTTEABT didn't sell many tickets and was most likely going to be re-booked and rescheduled, but all this other conspiracy theory and claims is just bizarre. Take a deep breath and pop on your favorite Yes album and let it go dude...
    Last edited by Somis Sound; 09-23-2022, 04:51 PM.

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  • alex peters
    replied
    Originally posted by luvyesmusic View Post
    Would be nice to go back and look at some of the old posts/threads from yesfans.com.
    People like money. Jon was probably hoping he would recover for the tour. However, earlier in the day he did announce the tour on the radio for the first time. I may have heard the announcement/ interview much later. However, I was in Philly to see Jon that evening where he announced the tour for the second time. He was far too sick , to healthy to be on stage, and, again, frankly too sickly, as a person who has studied tens of thousands of people, and not a doctor, to even be discussing a tour; yet I still bought a few tickets, anyway

    My timeline is slightly vague, but Jon either went to the hospital the day after Philly show, or two days later for the first time in this juncture. Then about four days later, I believe it was reported he spent three or four days in the hospital. Sometime after he had surgery in California . Henry probably has a list of things done to Jon over the years, surgery wise.
    Jon was lucky to be alive. Yes, I heard about a resuscitation as well. He was housebound and weak for a very long time. Yes, he did some work over the Internet, with different musicians who were happy to work with Jon, and share those works. Jon sounded old, frail and extremely weak. Painful to listen to. I thought the days of Jon touring were over. Somehow he did some solo shows and a tour with Rick where I never saw him play guitar so well. At his age, his voice will never be what it was; but it is amazing still. Yes, poor ticket sales may have played a part, but Jon was extremely ill, hospitalized twice during a short period of time during his solo tour just after the announcement of the tour, and surgery shortly after back in California. There were a couple of videos put out by one of Jon's daughters that weren't up long.

    I know when folks are sick, esp. when I've been watching them for years in the front rows of all kinds of venues. I also know when people are healthy.

    ​​​
    Your are great Luvyesmusic but Jon did 3 more shows in the next 5 days after the Philly show. And several weeks later in April 8 ,9 and 10 he did 3 shows in California at 3 different locations.

    You are mistaken
    Last edited by alex peters; 09-22-2022, 06:53 PM.

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  • luvyesmusic
    replied
    Would be nice to go back and look at some of the old posts/threads from yesfans.com.
    People like money. Jon was probably hoping he would recover for the tour. However, earlier in the day he did announce the tour on the radio for the first time. I may have heard the announcement/ interview much later. However, I was in Philly to see Jon that evening where he announced the tour for the second time. He was far too sick to be on stage, and, again, frankly too sickly, as a person who has studied tens of thousands of people, and not a doctor, to even be discussing a tour; yet I still bought a few tickets, anyway.

    My timeline is slightly vague, but Jon either went to the hospital the day after Philly show, or two days later for the first time in this juncture. Then about four days later, I believe it was reported he spent three or four days in the hospital. Sometime after he had surgery in California . Henry probably has a list of things done to Jon over the years, surgery wise.
    Jon was lucky to be alive. Yes, I heard about a resuscitation as well. He was housebound and weak for a very long time. Yes, he did some work over the Internet, with different musicians who were happy to work with Jon, and share those works. Jon sounded old, frail and extremely weak. Painful to listen to. I thought the days of Jon touring were over. Somehow he did some solo shows and a tour with Rick where I never saw him play guitar so well. At his age, his voice will never be what it was; but it is amazing still. Yes, poor ticket sales may have played a part, but Jon was extremely ill, hospitalized twice during a short period of time during his solo tour just after the announcement of the tour, and surgery shortly after back in California. There were a couple of videos put out by one of Jon's daughters that weren't up long.

    I know when folks are sick, esp. when I've been watching them for years in the front rows of all kinds of venues. I also know when people are healthy.

    ​​​
    Last edited by luvyesmusic; 09-22-2022, 06:19 PM.

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  • alex peters
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Holland View Post

    Just more repeated unsubstantiated speculation about Jon's illnes and more casting an unsubstantiated shadow of doubt on whether it was all that serious and not half made up as an excuse for a cancelled tour.

    I do remember by the way that a couple of days prior to his asthma attack, Jon did a phone interview with some radio show, promoting the tour, and he sounded very hoarse and was coughing an awful lot and quite a few people on the old site where wondering out loud how in that condition he was going to do the tour.
    No. Just repeating all the reports from various sources. If he was hoarse and coughing and sick why was he doing the radio show? He should have been in bed and Squire does the radio show

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Holland
    replied
    Originally posted by alex peters View Post


    The 2008 tour was just over a month away from starting. Rehearsals were about to begin with a new keys player. The band as a whole had not played together in 4 years

    And then just at that moment right before rehearsals Anderson has the greatest health crisis of his lifetime. Some say asthma. Some say respiratory failure. Some say he was dead and resuscitated. Some say pancreatitis. Some say all of the above.

    Do you know what the odds of that happening at that moment? 1 in 10,000 .

    Alot of $ had been spent leading up to this huge production. If there was no insurance policy for the cancellation someone was going to lose alot of pesos.

    There are no conspiracies theories and there are no coincidences.
    Just more repeated unsubstantiated speculation about Jon's illnes and more casting an unsubstantiated shadow of doubt on whether it was all that serious and not half made up as an excuse for a cancelled tour.

    I do remember by the way that a couple of days prior to his asthma attack, Jon did a phone interview with some radio show, promoting the tour, and he sounded very hoarse and was coughing an awful lot and quite a few people on the old site where wondering out loud how in that condition he was going to do the tour.

    Leave a comment:


  • alex peters
    replied
    Originally posted by Davy View Post
    It wasn't just respiratory issues, Anderson had other health problems as well.

    The 2008 tour was just over a month away from starting. Rehearsals were about to begin with a new keys player. The band as a whole had not played together in 4 years

    And then just at that moment right before rehearsals Anderson has the greatest health crisis of his lifetime. Some say asthma. Some say respiratory failure. Some say he was dead and resuscitated. Some say pancreatitis. Some say all of the above.

    Do you know what the odds of that happening at that moment? 1 in 10,000 .

    Alot of $ had been spent leading up to this huge production. If there was no insurance policy for the cancellation someone was going to lose alot of pesos.

    There are no conspiracies theories and there are no coincidences.
    Last edited by alex peters; 09-22-2022, 12:42 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • alex peters
    replied
    Originally posted by Davy View Post
    It wasn't just respiratory issues, Anderson had other health problems as well.
    And today at 77 he does 14 dates with the kids in a month knocking them dead.

    Leave a comment:


  • Davy
    replied
    It wasn't just respiratory issues, Anderson had other health problems as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • alex peters
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Holland View Post

    So basically everyone else has to rebute with facts, facts, facts, while you can just spout all sorts of unsubstantiated thoughts about Jon's illnes and cast an unsubstantiated shadow of doubt on whether it was all that serious and not half made up as an excuse for a cancelled tour. Does the saying "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" ring a bell?
    I love that saying. " What's good for the goose is good for the gander". Yes. You make an excellent point.


    The reason for the 2008 show cancelation was horrible ticket sales. That is a fact.

    Jon's illness is speculation. How bad it was? What exactly it was. The lack of information that came out at the time and then when you did get information months later it was contradictory and not from the horses mouth.. I fully admit it.

    I do not believe in conspiracies but I do not believe in coincidences also..

    In September 2008 Anderson angrily gives an interview with NME complaining about YES moving on and not waiting until 2009 and his recovery. He says only Alan White called him with 1 phone call. The article states he had acute respiratory failure.

    Well, did the band not believe his illness. Did the band realize his contract demands were never going to work anymore with the fanbase Yes had because the Close and Back Tour did not sell? Why not at least a phone call from Howe and Squire?

    One thing you never get from these guys after 1980 is the straight truth.

    Leave a comment:


  • alex peters
    replied
    Originally posted by Somis Sound View Post

    But the same venue on that cancelled tour was rebooked in LA with Benoit! I was there........ But hey, believe what you want to.
    Sorry. You are mistaken. But time does blur all our memories

    Leave a comment:

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