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2000-2008: What Went WRONG For "Classic YES"?

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    Originally posted by Yesed View Post
    [/B]

    Really? I didnt realize this. What changed financially, when the band went out again without Anderson. Maybe the financial prospects were just as good with a new album, against a possible No Jon/no Yes blowback. Or a new Yes album without Anderson was on par with a tour with Anderson and no new album. Still hard to believe the band wouldnt wait,, but moved on without Jon , while Jon was "dying" of respiratory failure.
    Jon wasn't 'dying' of respiratory failure when the band decided to move on without him. He was in the middle of his six months prescribed rest.

    What I do know from reliable source (a friend talked to then tour manager Paul Silveira) is that the CTTE and Back tour was on the verge of either being cancelled or being rebooked in smaller venues already before Jon's hospitalisation due to lack of ticket sales (the tour was booked in pretty large sheds). What changed financially is that Yes' momentum of 2004, that was build up again by a lot of touring and hard work from 1997 - 2003, on which they could fill 6.000 - 8.000 seats arenas, had declined between 2004 - 2008. The momentum got lost, but management and promoters didn't recognise this and booked the CTTE and Back tour in way too large sheds.

    Now I'm 100% convinced that Jon's health problems were very real as was his hospitalisation. To suggest otherwise, as Mr. Peters does, is disgraceful. But I'm also confident that it was also used as an excuse for the cancellation of a tour that as said was already on the verge of being cancelled or rebooked anyway.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Yesed View Post
      [/B]

      Really? I didnt realize this. What changed financially, when the band went out again without Anderson. Maybe the financial prospects were just as good with a new album, against a possible No Jon/no Yes blowback. Or a new Yes album without Anderson was on par with a tour with Anderson and no new album. Still hard to believe the band wouldnt wait,, but moved on without Jon , while Jon was "dying" of respiratory failure.
      Squire moved on immediately because he knew it was over with Anderson as a singer. Anderson was done with Yes after the 35th tour. Squire agreed to unrealistic demands by Anderson to return as a contract singer for the Close and Back Tour but this turned into a disaster as the tour did not sell. Squire needed Anderson but by then Anderson did not need Squire or the rest of the band.

      Squire throughout his entire Yes career had to keep working constantly. Tour after tour after tour. He was not financially set and when he passed he was living a middle class lifestyle in Phoenix.

      Alot of the bad blood revolved around money.. Some were better than others in keeping what they made..

      Comment


        Originally posted by Mr. Holland View Post

        Jon wasn't 'dying' of respiratory failure when the band decided to move on without him. He was in the middle of his six months prescribed rest.

        What I do know from reliable source (a friend talked to then tour manager Paul Silveira) is that the CTTE and Back tour was on the verge of either being cancelled or being rebooked in smaller venues already before Jon's hospitalisation due to lack of ticket sales (the tour was booked in pretty large sheds). What changed financially is that Yes' momentum of 2004, that was build up again by a lot of touring and hard work from 1997 - 2003, on which they could fill 6.000 - 8.000 seats arenas, had declined between 2004 - 2008. The momentum got lost, but management and promoters didn't recognise this and booked the CTTE and Back tour in way too large sheds.

        Now I'm 100% convinced that Jon's health problems were very real as was his hospitalisation. To suggest otherwise, as Mr. Peters does, is disgraceful. But I'm also confident that it was also used as an excuse for the cancellation of a tour that as said was already on the verge of being cancelled or rebooked anyway.
        It was not the promoters or management's fault at booking the Close and Back Tour in larger venues. They had no choice in that smaller venues were not viable with Anderson's contract demands.

        The show could not be rebooked in smaller venues.. Ticket had already gone on sale for a long time. A considerable amount of $ in promotion was spent and as I mentioned Anderson's contract meant smaller venues would not work.

        But you are the first after 14 years to admit the truth. The CTTE and Back tour was canceled due to bad ticket sales and Jon's health was an excuse.

        As far as my allegations being disgraceful well you practically have confirmed what I was saying was true.. Kind of a real coincidence he came down with this illness at the same time the tour was cancelled. And here is the voice of Yes for 40 years and not 1 former or present member of Yes went to the hospital to wish him well. No one! Many former or present members at the time did not even make a statement and the ones that did the statement was carefully worded . What did Squire do? He basically said FY Jon and got a new singer while he was on his supposed death bed.

        Every movie that is being made has an insurance policy on the lead actors in case he dies or gets sick and cannot finish a movie.

        Anderson's contract demands after 2004 and the 35th created permanent bad blood . But it is a business and business is business.
        Last edited by alex peters; 09-21-2022, 12:23 AM.

        Comment


          Sometimes the lights all shining on me, other times I can barely see.
          Lately it occurs to me what a long strange trip it’s been.

          Comment




            I am into the truth; not spin . We live in a world today where the truth is discarded if it does not fit our agenda and narrative. I also like the debates. Sometimes I am wrong and sometimes I am right.

            BUT the main difference between me and you Mr. Armstrong is I do not dislike anyone that disagrees with me. You dislike me passionently. It is a leftist disease. They dislike and even hate Anyone that disagrees with them.
            Last edited by alex peters; 09-21-2022, 01:35 AM.

            Comment


              You see all these politicians and previous cabnet and staff members of various Presidential administration's write books. after they are done and gone. They write unflattering gossip about the President they served all to make $.

              You see it in the music business also. Ex Yesmen have written books with plenty of gossip.

              Are these people trolls? Or are they just writing gossip to make a buck? Or are they trolls and gossip influencers?

              In the leftist mind it all depends on whether you like what they are saying.. If you like what the person writes in his book you love him or her.

              If you do not like what they write you dislike them and call them a troll

              Getting to the truth is irrelevant today. The agenda and "party line" "trumps" anything. Marshall Stalin was the Godfather of this.
              Last edited by alex peters; 09-21-2022, 01:58 AM.

              Comment


                The reason I brought up the subject of the 2008 canceled tour is because it is an intergal part of Yes history. This was the final nail in the coffin for Anderson ever playing with Yes again. This thread says What Went Wrong?

                The 2008 debacle is never mentioned. It is avoided like the plague. One can believe what they want to believe. All views should be respected.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by alex peters View Post
                  Asthma and respiratory failure are 2 different things. Respiratory failure is either chronic or acute. He would not be performing today. Probably not alive . It is not curable.

                  This sounded like a made up press release. I believe it was BS.

                  What hospital was he in? I know where he lives? He could not be in a hospital with respiratory failure without people knowing and spreading the word. Anderson had a small sinus procedure done 2 years ago or so. He thanked his doctor and staff. publicly. He said who the doctor was that did the procedure.

                  This supposed 2008 crisis he has never mentioned the hospital. He never has thanked the doctors. Where was he? He always just mentioned in vague terms he was ill.

                  He is 63 with respiratory failure and 14 years later at 76 performing without a hint of a cough knocking them dead with the kids.. NOT POSSIBLE! Sure Henry!

                  The tour was a disaster in the making.. A new keys player and 1 month before the tour the band had not rehearsed. Ticket sales were terrible. A financial disaster was in the offing. Promoters were going to take a.bath financially..Did the band wait for Anderson to recover his supposed illness? No! They immediately hired Benoit and went out and played theatres because their fan base had deteriorated and the country was in a financial crisis. Anderson never sung with Yes again.

                  You believe what you want to believe and I will believe what I want to believe.
                  Several of your claims above are simply false. I also note that Anderson is entitled to his privacy. I don't see why we should have to know what hospital he was in, nor would the absence of that information indicate any sort of conspiracy. He did say on his website on 12 Sep 2008: "I'm getting so much better with the help of the doctors at Stanford hospital, my ever present angel Janeee, the love of my children Jade, Deborah, Damion, and the powerful love connection with Divine Mother Audrey along with all my friends and fans around the world." This is a rather vague message, but he's a private citizen: why should he provide detail?

                  As it happens, as well as that and the press release about the 2008 crisis, we also had a blog by his daughter Deborah about what happened, in which she was more detailed:

                  "Months have passed with so many experiences unfolding... the most poignant being the near loss of my father a few months ago. He suffered a huge asthma attack which led to him collapsing and being rushed to the hospital with his wife, Jane, by his side. Within hours my brother flew from London, I from Chicago and My sister drove up from LA to be with him. In the moments of his time in the ICU, my brother, sister, Jane and I would be with him as he slept in an unconscious state for several days, hold his hands and through meditation send him so much healing love and light. [...]

                  "My father recovered and was home before the weeks end. We were all relieved and happy to see him scratch his head in the usual manner. Dad was back.​"

                  Our own Somis Sound was working with Deborah around this time and has corroborated this. Alan White also did a radio interview in Jul 2008, in which he talked of how Jon's wife Jane told him that Jon was "dead" for two minutes before being revived.

                  You keep talking about "respiratory failure". As far as I know, what happened to Anderson was an asthma attack -- as per Deborah's blog. Asthma attacks can be very serious, they can kill, but people can also recover from them very well.

                  You can believe what you want to believe, Alex. And I am free to point out the massive holes in your logic. Anderson's health was clearly a problem for many years after 2008, affecting his ability to work and to sing. You can spot recordings of his voice from 2009-11ish quite easily by the difference in his vocals. His singing today is a marvel, for which I am thankful, but he took many years to get back to this level.

                  The other part of your conspiracy theory that makes no sense is why would Anderson go along with it? Anderson was very unhappy at the behaviour of the rest of the band. If Yes made up the press release to get out of a tour, and then went out on a tour to smaller venues with David... well, why would Anderson not simply call this out as bullshit?

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by michelforest View Post
                    I would stop enabling Mr. Peters and his theories if I were you... I feel like I'm back on alt.music.yes in the late 90's. Those were the days. 😏
                    I do not recall anything on alt.music.yes quite as out there as the conspiracy theories Alex presents for us here.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by bondegezou View Post

                      Several of your claims above are simply false. I also note that Anderson is entitled to his privacy. I don't see why we should have to know what hospital he was in, nor would the absence of that information indicate any sort of conspiracy. He did say on his website on 12 Sep 2008: "I'm getting so much better with the help of the doctors at Stanford hospital, my ever present angel Janeee, the love of my children Jade, Deborah, Damion, and the powerful love connection with Divine Mother Audrey along with all my friends and fans around the world." This is a rather vague message, but he's a private citizen: why should he provide detail?

                      As it happens, as well as that and the press release about the 2008 crisis, we also had a blog by his daughter Deborah about what happened, in which she was more detailed:

                      "Months have passed with so many experiences unfolding... the most poignant being the near loss of my father a few months ago. He suffered a huge asthma attack which led to him collapsing and being rushed to the hospital with his wife, Jane, by his side. Within hours my brother flew from London, I from Chicago and My sister drove up from LA to be with him. In the moments of his time in the ICU, my brother, sister, Jane and I would be with him as he slept in an unconscious state for several days, hold his hands and through meditation send him so much healing love and light. [...]

                      "My father recovered and was home before the weeks end. We were all relieved and happy to see him scratch his head in the usual manner. Dad was back.​"

                      Our own Somis Sound was working with Deborah around this time and has corroborated this. Alan White also did a radio interview in Jul 2008, in which he talked of how Jon's wife Jane told him that Jon was "dead" for two minutes before being revived.

                      You keep talking about "respiratory failure". As far as I know, what happened to Anderson was an asthma attack -- as per Deborah's blog. Asthma attacks can be very serious, they can kill, but people can also recover from them very well.

                      You can believe what you want to believe, Alex. And I am free to point out the massive holes in your logic. Anderson's health was clearly a problem for many years after 2008, affecting his ability to work and to sing. You can spot recordings of his voice from 2009-11ish quite easily by the difference in his vocals. His singing today is a marvel, for which I am thankful, but he took many years to get back to this level.

                      The other part of your conspiracy theory that makes no sense is why would Anderson go along with it? Anderson was very unhappy at the behaviour of the rest of the band. If Yes made up the press release to get out of a tour, and then went out on a tour to smaller venues with David... well, why would Anderson not simply call this out as bullshit?
                      The 2008 Close to the Edge and Back Tour was canceled because of bad ticket sales. Squire and Yes moved immediately as he was on his hospital bed to replace him with Benoit and when Anderson made his Sept statement Yes with a new singer was about to hit the road touring.

                      Very caring and touching by the band?

                      Everything in this post is a fact
                      Last edited by alex peters; 09-21-2022, 05:32 AM.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by alex peters View Post

                        It was not the promoters or management's fault at booking the Close and Back Tour in larger venues. They had no choice in that smaller venues were not viable with Anderson's contract demands.

                        The show could not be rebooked in smaller venues.. Ticket had already gone on sale for a long time. A considerable amount of $ in promotion was spent and as I mentioned Anderson's contract meant smaller venues would not work.

                        But you are the first after 14 years to admit the truth. The CTTE and Back tour was canceled due to bad ticket sales and Jon's health was an excuse.

                        As far as my allegations being disgraceful well you practically have confirmed what I was saying was true.. Kind of a real coincidence he came down with this illness at the same time the tour was cancelled. And here is the voice of Yes for 40 years and not 1 former or present member of Yes went to the hospital to wish him well. No one! Many former or present members at the time did not even make a statement and the ones that did the statement was carefully worded . What did Squire do? He basically said FY Jon and got a new singer while he was on his supposed death bed.

                        Every movie that is being made has an insurance policy on the lead actors in case he dies or gets sick and cannot finish a movie.

                        Anderson's contract demands after 2004 and the 35th created permanent bad blood . But it is a business and business is business.
                        No, no, no, don't put words in my mouth. I have not confirmed what you say is true.

                        I said that Anderson falling seriously ill and being hospitalised was absolutely true. And it was the reason for the cancellation of the tour. But I also believe the tour in the end would have either been cancelled or rebooked in smaller venues, had Anderson not fallen seriously ill, per what Silveira told my friend. But that wasn't the case yet when Anderson had his asthma attack, and that ultimately was the reason for cancelling the tour.

                        Comment


                          Don't feed the troll!

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Mr. Holland View Post

                            No, no, no, don't put words in my mouth. I have not confirmed what you say is true.

                            I said that Anderson falling seriously ill and being hospitalised was absolutely true. And it was the reason for the cancellation of the tour. But I also believe the tour in the end would have either been cancelled or rebooked in smaller venues, had Anderson not fallen seriously ill, per what Silveira told my friend. But that wasn't the case yet when Anderson had his asthma attack, and that ultimately was the reason for cancelling the tour.
                            Ah, but you said it was on the verge of being cancelled because of poor ticket sales. What a coincidence. And how timely! And praise Jesus he has never had an asthma attack since.

                            The tour was canceled because of bad ticket sales and never rescheduled and as Anderson lies in a coma in a hospital Squire is calling Benoit for his 1st rehearsal with Yes.
                            Last edited by alex peters; 09-21-2022, 06:08 AM.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Kenny View Post
                              Don't feed the troll!
                              Don't listen to lecturing liberals

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Frumious B View Post

                                OK, but I could easily put together a playlist from SAOS, BLTN, IOK and 1KH that would perk up some Yesfreak ears. I guarantee it.
                                Message me that list I am curious

                                Comment

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