ARW Revisited

[luna65]

It's all about managing expectations. It's always better to under-promise and over-deliver. If they had begun with a low key, surprise announcement that they had got together to tour, playing old music with a new twist, but with no pretensions to be Yes, and no inflated promises about future plans, there would only be positive feelings about them among fans.

Exactly. IMO, they really squandered the good will of the fanbase with the kind of hype machine promotion they engaged in with all of the anniversary observance (or not, as was the case). Jon should have always considered, in the back of his mind, that Trevor might decide to ripcord out of the proceedings at any time.

[Mr. Holland]

It's all about managing expectations. It's always better to under-promise and over-deliver. If they had begun with a low key, surprise announcement that they had got together to tour, playing old music with a new twist, but with no pretensions to be Yes, and no inflated promises about future plans, there would only be positive feelings about them among fans. If it then worked out that new material was completed and recorded in some form (an album would have been my preference too), and further touring on the back of it that would have been a bonus. Or an even better option might have been to record new material first then launch the band and a tour to support it. But what we got was probably the most that could be realistically achieved in any case. It was just unfortunate that the positives got overshadowed by the hype .

Well, they went with Brian Lane as their manager, so the under-promise and over-deliver thing went out of the window with that decision

[Yorkshire Square]

Well, they went with Brian Lane as their manager, so the under-promise and over-deliver thing went out of the window with that decision

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Gtkgasman]

Chill. Whichever version you prefer, we need to recognise that this is just a beat combo on their last trip round the block.

Shame Jon never got that Grammy he so dearly wants...

Always the shots at Jon and Rick. Even when folks just want to have a conv with you. Come on man...... life’s too short..... 😊

[Gtkgasman]

Exactly. IMO, they really squandered the good will of the fanbase with the kind of hype machine promotion they engaged in with all of the anniversary observance (or not, as was the case). Jon should have always considered, in the back of his mind, that Trevor might decide to ripcord out of the proceedings at any time.

I have to respectfully disagree. No good will was squandered. These are artists. They are working. Working and doing business. That’s all. And we like or don’t like what they do. If anybody expects or expected anything from the band/members the that’s on them.

[PeterCologne]

I think it was a mixture of Brian Lane and Jon Anderson, that was leading to those hyperbolic announcements. That is the price you have to pay if you have Jon Anderson in Yes, but in case of YesF I at least got two times for two hours a Yes-experience again with a lead singer with a strong voice and with that powerplant-energy and special charme in the middle that does boost the band and make it really rock. And I got a band that was able to really play with Yesmusic in a creative way. I always had my problems with Awaken, but they managed to give it that edge that I always missed. So what YesF actually delivered IMHO at least was really good. No need for a trial about what they did not deliver. Isn't it always a good sign in a way if we are disappointed about not getting something we looked forward to? At least better than vice versa,

I have not much hope for an encore though and even less hope for a Yesalbum by the Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman. Maybe Jon Anderson wanted too much and whirled the whole thing apart with his too high expectations. But I will remain mysterious if the - fine - Fragile was the only thing worth releasing. There was some talk about recorded material. But where is the stuff?

If I consider though what Anderson and Wakeman did release in the recent two decades - not much of class I find - I come to the conclusion that Trevor Rabin would be the one to deliver the new material for an album. But we see no signs for that. Well, the whole thing was great while it lasted, that is already something.

[yamishogun]

There was some talk about recorded material. But where is the stuff?

If I consider though what Anderson and Wakeman did release in the recent two decades - not much of class I find - I come to the conclusion that Trevor Rabin would be the one to deliver the new material for an album. But we see no signs for that. Well, the whole thing was great while it lasted, that is already something.

We have already heard "Fragile" and a 10 minute version of "Bolero" on Red Planet that Rabin mentioned in the summer of 2006. Apart from maybe the two minute introduction played on the European tour, we haven't heard three long-form songs that in late 2016 of which Rabin said he was doing most of the writing. It seems like Anderson was contributing to the songs as he did on Talk. Since the remaining songs were likely all Rabin's, I think we will hear some of that on his instrumental album he said he wanted to work on. Unless something unusual happened, his vocal solo album has been finished or nearly finished for a while.

[Frumious B]

They certainly overpromised and underdelivered, but the show I saw was still easily the best Yes music concert I’ve seen since 2002. Apollo from ARW and Lyon from the Benoit era are the only post 2004 live albums I ever play.

[PeterCologne]

We have already heard "Fragile" and a 10 minute version of "Bolero" on Red Planet that Rabin mentioned in the summer of 2006. Apart from maybe the two minute introduction played on the European tour, we haven't heard three long-form songs that in late 2016 of which Rabin said he was doing most of the writing. It seems like Anderson was contributing to the songs as he did on Talk. Since the remaining songs were likely all Rabin's, I think we will hear some of that on his instrumental album he said he wanted to work on. Unless something unusual happened, his vocal solo album has been finished or nearly finished for a while.

When Anderson really had already contributed to the songs why errase his voice and put the music on an instrumental album? I mean as long as the stuff is somewhat good, of course. At least they could use those songs as bonus-stuff for another livealbum from 2018. I saw the show in Mannheim, the music came over even more sovereign and dense as the already very good 2017.

[yamishogun]

When Anderson really had already contributed to the songs why errase his voice and put the music on an instrumental album? I mean as long as the stuff is somewhat good, of course. At least they could use those songs as bonus-stuff for another livealbum from 2018. I saw the show in Mannheim, the music came over even more sovereign and dense as the already very good 2017.

We don't know if it ever got to the stage where Anderson was singing. I assumed that most of the album would be sparse vocals, not a mainstream song like "Fragile" with Rabin the lead and Anderson as back up.

[Chrisklenox]

All I know is that I love the show I saw in 2016 so much that I decided it would probably be my last Yes gig since Chris is gone. I wanted my last memory of a Yes concert to be a great one, and I got it. That’s not a dig at YesO. I love The Quest, and will buy future albums sight unseen. I am just choosing to let it be as far as attending live shows goes. Would have been nice to get an ARW album, but whatever. It was fantastic that they played so many great shows, and things don’t always go as planned. I am very grateful that they got out there and put on the show that they did, and I never thought in a million years that I would ever have the chance to see Rabin live. Too cool!

[Chrisklenox]

They certainly overpromised and underdelivered, but the show I saw was still easily the best Yes music concert I’ve seen since 2002. Apollo from ARW and Lyon from the Benoit era are the only post 2004 live albums I ever play.

Same for me, come to think of it. I have the studio albums, but have skipped every live album since 2004 except for those two.

[luna65]

I have to respectfully disagree. No good will was squandered. These are artists. They are working. Working and doing business. That’s all. And we like or don’t like what they do. If anybody expects or expected anything from the band/members the that’s on them.

Okay.

From my perspective, if they had only done what they did within the context of doing those things and no more, and not created expectations for things which never came to be then I might have said the same. I don't think anyone now would doubt that I'm one of Trevor's biggest fans. But he did squander some good will with me, even as I understand the situation. I've moved past it now but every time we engage in The Discourse I can still feel the raw edges of my disappointment.

[Gtkgasman]

Okay.

From my perspective, if they had only done what they did within the context of doing those things and no more, and not created expectations for things which never came to be then I might have said the same. I don't think anyone now would doubt that I'm one of Trevor's biggest fans. But he did squander some good will with me, even as I understand the situation. I've moved past it now but every time we engage in The Discourse I can still feel the raw edges of my disappointment.

Believe me. I understand. Call me cynical, and old school, now I suppose, when it comes to business. And entertainment (and sports) are just that for me now - business - entertainment and nothing more. 15 - 20 years ago I would have felt different. Now it’s all just water off a ducks back. I’ve seen way too much ‘real life’ life that has hardened my heart in business, and life, and therefore i just try to enjoy all the good that I can now. Ie. take the good. That’s a little off track but is the basis for my feeling - if we are disappointed, it’s on us.

But , I’ll say again. Yes, I was disappointed there was no ARW record. So, a bit of a dichotomy for me too 😊. Fan at heart.....

[yamishogun]

Based on the early interviews, I assumed that we were in for something that sounded like Invention of Knowledge + Jacaranda + Retro 1 & 2, but having since heard Fragile Touch, I suppose it could just as easily have sounded more like the mellower parts of Talk + The Living Tree.

Based on the interviews, an ARW album would have sounded nothing like The Living Tree or the mellower parts of Talk - which were...."Where Will You Be" and the last part of "Endless Dream"?
Rabin said there were four long-form songs whereas the longest song on The Living Tree is 6 minutes and 30 seconds. Rabin added with respect to the four long songs: "...which we're pretty happy about, hopefully breaking new ground, sound wise." We know part of the album would have sounded something like "Valles Marineris" from Wakeman's The Red Planet since that was a form of "Bolero" that they mentioned.