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ARW what do you believe they did?

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    #46
    What did they do?

    Live, Trevor butchered the classics, Rick tinkled all over the Yeswest stuff and Jon was just livin' the dream.

    In the studio? Don't ask me, ask Yami. He knows what went down... 🤣🤣🤣

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      #47
      Originally posted by bondegezou View Post
      I've not voted as I don't think the poll captures the possibilities that well! There were demos, but I think there's a difference between a band member emailing around a demo or idea of theirs and the three actually collaboratively working on something. The former seems to have happened; the latter, much less so.

      We know they did something together because we know of "Fragile/Touch". I don't think there's reams of collaboration beyond that song. I would guess there's close to nothing else. But we don't know what we don't know!
      So why didn't you say from the start that you didn't know? Again, unless they were lying they did say they were working together by file exchanges in late 2010 and early 2011. It is (again) a strawman to say you don't think there were "reams" of collaboration - no one said there was. From all the quotes, there was never a mention of a song Anderson brought in - just that he was adding to some music and that was prior to "Fragile."

      The interesting thing about "Bolero" is that Wakeman said what he brought to Rabin was "a very simplistic thing" yet Rabin said in 2020 that what they had worked on was essentially the same as the version that was released on The Red Planet.

      Rabin said in late 2016 that he was writing most of the music so there was no reason for Anderson to be adding much or anything in late 2016 and early 2017. So "writing together" as Rabin said in early 2016 must have reverted back to how Talk was written - Rabin brought in the core song and Anderson and others added to them. For those who think Anderson wasn't doing much during that time, I agree but that doesn't mean there wasn't music being written and as Pomeroy said, recorded.

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        #48
        So why then, do you think the only thing 'released' [if you can call it that] was a slightly modified song from a prior, unrelated, Rabin project?

        {{{{CAUTION}}}} Requires thinking.

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          #49
          Originally posted by Chris2210 View Post
          So why then, do you think the only thing 'released' [if you can call it that] was a slightly modified song from a prior, unrelated, Rabin project?

          {{{{CAUTION}}}} Requires thinking.
          I've given the likely reasons several times and all are obvious. What isn't obvious is how much each factor weighed in.

          "Fragile" was not "slightly modified" given the power of the lyrics. The extra music brought in also distinguishes it from a background soundtrack.

          A version of "Bolero" was also released, this time in the more traditional formats of vinyl, CD, cassette and 8 track. It is apparently close to the ARW version.
          That is 15 minutes of ARW music, not counting the intro music to the European concerts.

          Last edited by yamishogun; 04-14-2022, 06:30 AM.

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            #50
            I've clearly missed your 'likely', 'obvious' reasons why a lot of collaborative work was just ditched.

            It's [Bolero] probably close to the 'ARW version' because it's based on the demo Wakeman submitted. I don't 'know' that, but when there's no evidence to the contrary and I'm making a guess at something, I'll go for the scenario that doesn't require unnecessarily complex mental gymnastics to form a hypothesis. Call me old-fashioned if you like, but old William was no fool.

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              #51
              I'll preface this by saying I'm an idiot for breaking my rule yet again but - let's go over this again since my original post about this is now gone (or at least would probably be difficult to find on the Wayback Machine). So I'm establishing this is not the first time I've had to state this.

              Originally posted by yamishogun View Post
              "Fragile" was not "slightly modified" given the power of the lyrics. The extra music brought in also distinguishes it from a background soundtrack.
              "Fragile" was completed before Rick and Jon worked on it. The only thing which Jon added was the vocal melody/lyrics for the "be the touch" bridge (hence it becoming "Fragile/Touch"). But because we only heard parts of the song in the episode of Agent X I can understand why someone might consider it only a theme. It was used in a way to suit what was going on in the footage. But it was, in fact, an entire song. Even at the time of airing the showrunner noted this - that it was a new song, written specifically for the show at his request. But Trevor retained the rights because he wasn't specifically compensated for writing it. Rick's piano parts are only augmentations. So slightly more than "slightly modified" but still - a song which was already finished which then included parts from Rick and Jon so it could technically be labeled as a song by ARW.
              Rabin-esque
              my labor of love (and obsessive research)
              rabinesque.blogspot.com

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                #52
                Originally posted by luna65 View Post
                I'll preface this by saying I'm an idiot for breaking my rule yet again but - let's go over this again
                Let's not. Nobody cares about your rule and you breaking it. Also, a song is not complete when there is still a bridge and vocals/lyrics to add.

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                  #53
                  Originally posted by Chris2210 View Post
                  I've clearly missed your 'likely', 'obvious' reasons why a lot of collaborative work was just ditched.

                  It's [Bolero] probably close to the 'ARW version' because it's based on the demo Wakeman submitted. I don't 'know' that, but when there's no evidence to the contrary and I'm making a guess at something, I'll go for the scenario that doesn't require unnecessarily complex mental gymnastics to form a hypothesis. Call me old-fashioned if you like, but old William was no fool.
                  You aren't old-fashioned, just aren't saying anything reasonable. Unless Rabin is lying, the song on The Red Planet is very similar to that which ARW worked with.

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                    #54
                    Originally posted by luna65 View Post
                    I'll preface this by saying I'm an idiot for breaking my rule yet again but - let's go over this again since my original post about this is now gone (or at least would probably be difficult to find on the Wayback Machine). So I'm establishing this is not the first time I've had to state this.



                    "Fragile" was completed before Rick and Jon worked on it. The only thing which Jon added was the vocal melody/lyrics for the "be the touch" bridge (hence it becoming "Fragile/Touch"). But because we only heard parts of the song in the episode of Agent X I can understand why someone might consider it only a theme. It was used in a way to suit what was going on in the footage. But it was, in fact, an entire song. Even at the time of airing the showrunner noted this - that it was a new song, written specifically for the show at his request. But Trevor retained the rights because he wasn't specifically compensated for writing it. Rick's piano parts are only augmentations. So slightly more than "slightly modified" but still - a song which was already finished which then included parts from Rick and Jon so it could technically be labeled as a song by ARW.
                    Yamis doesn’t care but I do don’t break your rule

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                      #55
                      Originally posted by RelayerI View Post
                      They charged a lot for tickets.

                      Beyond that, who knows ?
                      Because they could do , unlike another band who cannot be named :-)

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                        #56
                        Originally posted by rabin105 View Post
                        Yamis doesn’t care but I do don’t break your rule
                        I appreciate your support, Danny.
                        Rabin-esque
                        my labor of love (and obsessive research)
                        rabinesque.blogspot.com

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                          #57
                          Originally posted by yamishogun View Post

                          Let's not. Nobody cares about your rule and you breaking it. Also, a song is not complete when there is still a bridge and vocals/lyrics to add.
                          I care. Not about you obviously.
                          Sometimes the lights all shining on me, other times I can barely see.
                          Lately it occurs to me what a long strange trip it’s been.

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                            #58
                            Originally posted by yamishogun View Post

                            Let's not. Nobody cares about your rule and you breaking it. Also, a song is not complete when there is still a bridge and vocals/lyrics to add.
                            I suppose this isn’t ‘reasonable’ either because it doesn’t suit your narrative. I didn’t say that Bolero wasn’t like the ‘ARW version’ did I? I said it probably was because that was largely the demo that Wakeman submitted to the group. We perhaps will never know, but your hypothesis requires some sort of convoluted explanation for why the three would work up a lot of material jointly and then release none of it except for a piece largely pre-existing the ARW project and even that not in a commercial format.

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                              #59
                              Originally posted by Chris2210 View Post

                              I suppose this isn’t ‘reasonable’ either because it doesn’t suit your narrative. I didn’t say that Bolero wasn’t like the ‘ARW version’ did I? I said it probably was because that was largely the demo that Wakeman submitted to the group. We perhaps will never know, but your hypothesis requires some sort of convoluted explanation for why the three would work up a lot of material jointly and then release none of it except for a piece largely pre-existing the ARW project and even that not in a commercial format.
                              I just quoted Wakeman who said that what he gave to the group " was a very simplistic thing at the time based on Ravel’s Bolero". Does what appeared on The Red Planet seem very simplistic to you?

                              You are the same as Henry and a couple of others who repeatedly strawman and put words in my mouth. Those who do this have no real argument. I never said the three "worked up a lot of material jointly." That is your strawman. I just wrote that it seems that Anderson added to music but there was never a mention in 2016 or 2017 about a song he brought in. Anderson did say in 2011 that he was writing a couple of songs with Rabin and a couple of songs with Wakeman.

                              At the end of 2016, Rabin discussed collaboration: "We're actually about a third of a way through writing new stuff, Jon has come up quite often to my house, my home studio, and we've done work here. We're sharing files, and the same goes for Rick for quite a while. I'd say we're closing in on half an hour of what we feel is pretty good stuff. Rabin said a month later at the start of 2017: "We're writing all the time.... We are recording and will put out music when we're ready, on our terms."

                              But somehow because an album wasn't released, you think that AWR did almost nothing but slap on lyrics to an essentially completed song... Okay...
                              Last edited by yamishogun; 04-14-2022, 01:02 PM.

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                                #60
                                Originally posted by Ash Armstrong View Post

                                I care. Not about you obviously.
                                I was wondering how you could get up to 1,400 posts. Now I see it.

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