Interesting quote about The Quest (and perhaps current Yes?)

[Mr. Holland]

I was reading an article on Ultimate Classic Rock and it was followed by a ranking of all 24 Yes studio albums. They put The Quest at no. 18 and Mirror to the Sky at no. 16.

The short review for The Quest:

Yes' first album of new material in seven years – and first since the 2015 death of bassist Chris Squire, the only original member to appear on every Yes LP – dives headlong into the nostalgia pool. From the Roger Dean cover art to lengthy songs about mystical thoughts and places, 'The Quest' goes through some familiar motions. This puts it in line with the rest of their catalog since began splintering after an early-to-mid-'70s peak: 'The Quest' is more in service to the idea of the band than it is to the music that the band makes. In other words, it sounds like a Yes album if you shut your eyes and believe you're listening to a Yes album.

"It sounds like a Yes album if you believe your listening to a Yes album". And to take it one step further; does current Yes sound like Yes if you believe you're listening to Yes.

Thoughts?

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/yes-albums-ranked/

[madbear]

An interesting take. The Quest is not a very good Yes album, believing it or not. MttS is: it has yes music [especially guitars and bass], lyrics and the whole package works for me (give or take a track or two, as discused elsewhere). Bands change, develop, mutate, mellow...
That's OK

[soundchaser09]

belief has nothing to with it. The band is Yes and sounds very much like them.

I think critics of the Quest and Mirror to the Sky get too hung up on the lineup sometimes.

[Mr. Holland]

belief has nothing to with it. The band is Yes and sounds very much like them.

I think critics of the Quest and Mirror to the Sky get too hung up on the lineup sometimes.

Well, it were the people in those line-ups who pretty much created the reference point of Yes and Yes music. I don't see how you can completely seperate the music from the people who, well for lack of a better term, where the DNA of Yes. For something to be Yes and recognisable as Yes, there has to be a connection to the history and to the past. And there is less and less of that. If you take minced meat and spaghetti out of Spaghetti bolognese, and replace those with pieces of chicken and Fusilli, then can it still qualify as Spaghetti bolognese? But perhaps if you close your eyes and believe it is Spaghetti bolognese, it will taste like spaghetti bolognese to some.....

[soundchaser09]

Well, it were the people in those line-ups who pretty much created the reference point of Yes and Yes music. I don't see how you can completely seperate the music from the people who, well for lack of a better term, where the DNA of Yes. For something to be Yes and recognisable as Yes, there has to be a connection to the history and to the past. And there is less and less of that. If you take minced meat and spaghetti out of Spaghetti bolognese, and replace those with pieces of chicken and Fusilli, then can it still qualify as Spaghetti bolognese? But perhaps if you close your eyes and believe it is Spaghetti bolognese, it will taste like spaghetti bolognese to some.....

but lets be clear, Yes has always had a changing lineup let's see we have:

Steve Howe: 1971-1981, 1988-1992, 1995-present
Geoff Downes: 1980-81, 2011-present
Billy Sherwood: 1997-2000, 2015-present (plus other involvement)
Jon Davison: 2012-present
Jay Schellen: 2023 (and as a touring and guest musician prior)

Now to me that absolutely consitutes a band that has a link back to the past. Removing Howe would of course naturally bring up legitimacy arguments (even for me) but that's where I stand.

[Mr. Holland]

but lets be clear, Yes has always had a changing lineup let's see we have:

Steve Howe: 1971-1981, 1988-1992, 1995-present
Geoff Downes: 1980-81, 2011-present
Billy Sherwood: 1997-2000, 2015-present (plus other involvement)
Jon Davison: 2012-present
Jay Schellen: 2023 (and as a touring and guest musician prior)

Now to me that absolutely consitutes a band that has a link back to the past. Removing Howe would of course naturally bring up legitimacy arguments (even for me) but that's where I stand.

Well yeah, Yes has always had a changing line up. But up till last year it always had two or more principals aboard in the form of either Jon, Chris, Steve, Alan or Steve, Chris, Alan or Jon, Chris, Alan and Steve and Alan. You can only lose so much key ingredients before spaghetti bolognese isn't spaghetti bolognese anymore, even if you gradually change the ingredients.

[soundchaser09]

Well yeah, Yes has always had a changing line up. But up till last year it always had two or more principals aboard in the form of either Jon, Chris, Steve, Alan or Steve, Chris, Alan or Jon, Chris, Alan and Steve and Alan. You can only lose so much key ingredients before spaghetti bolognese isn't spaghetti bolognese anymore, even if you gradually change the ingredients.

its an interesting discussion. After all, There was a change in lineup between Mirror, The Quest, Fly From Here, From a Page (when it was first worked on), Magnification, The Ladder, Open Your Eyes, The Keys albums, Talk, Union, Big Generator....

Does the fact that they were not a part of the 70s band mean that in time Billy or Geoff or Jon Davison could never be seen as 'legitimate', despite all their work within the band? It almost feels more of a fan perception thing than anything. True, those guys were not a part of Yes in the days of its commercial success, but they are still making albums collectively.

I think if they were not making new music, I would view them as a tribute act towards themselves. In fact I kinda got bored with Yes for a couple of years and only came back when Ice Bridge came out. New music to me signals taht this is still a band with a determination to drive forwards with its own vision. I give credit to them for that.

As far as bolognese talk goes you have to remember that at one point, Howe, Wakeman, White, Rabin would have been seen as non-key ingredients after replacing earlier members. It was naturally a different time in the band's career but still, I think as long as they make new music, Yes is a functioning and alive band. Without Howe you do lose all connection to 70s, perhaps at that point I will be inclined to call them Arc of Life, but we'll see.

[Kevin W]

It's Yes for me. The ever changing line up argument is very relevant. And whilst I can see where some who question whether the current line up is Yes come from, the clincher for me is that both Chris and Alan chose successors knowing that they wouldn't be able to continue themselves. So for me that legitimatises Billy's and Jay's places in the band (quite apart from the fact that Billy has already had a stint on the band).

The Quest and MTTS are merely taking the Yes DNA and using it to add another layer of Yes music. Which some will not like of course, just as some were turned off by YesWest. Me? I love all incarnations of the band and am very happy to see them so busy in the studio again, adding more chapters to the band's history.

[Homemade Parachute]

In other words, it sounds like a Yes album if you shut your eyes and believe you're listening to a Yes album.

This sounds to me not unlike those blind taste tests they do with people and wine, where occasionally (or at least so the rumour goes!) experienced sommeliers get fooled by chilled red wine and call it white…

But of course lots of things would sound like Yes albums, if you shut your eyes and someone spun it for you: much of the Yes members' solo catalog, for sure. And but also: did 90125 sound like a Yes album when it came out? What about Drama? Part of what can make each album exciting or interesting is the elasticity with which it both does and doesn't sound like our idea of a Yes album. Sometimes that stretching of our idea is more successful than other times, for sure. For me, I hear a lot of GftO and Tormato in MttS's DNA, but it doesn't really sound like either, either.

[Mr. Holland]

This sounds to me not unlike those blind taste tests they do with people and wine, where occasionally (or at least so the rumour goes!) experienced sommeliers get fooled by chilled red wine and call it white…

But of course lots of things would sound like Yes albums, if you shut your eyes and someone spun it for you: much of the Yes members' solo catalog, for sure. And but also: did 90125 sound like a Yes album when it came out? What about Drama? Part of what can make each album exciting or interesting is the elasticity with which it both does and doesn't sound like our idea of a Yes album. Sometimes that stretching of our idea is more successful than other times, for sure. For me, I hear a lot of GftO and Tormato in MttS's DNA, but it doesn't really sound like either, either.

The idea of the thread was indeed to have an interesting discussion.

You make some valid points. To me 90125 sounds like a Yes album. Because of Jon, Chris, Alan, Tony, not so much because of Rabin. Drama sounds like Yes to me because of Steve, Chris and Alan, not so much because of Trevor and Geoff. The same can be said for Fly From Here. I realise however there are fans out there who feel 90125 doesn't sound like Yes at all, or Drama doesn't sound like Yes.

So, what makes something sound like Yes is, of course, very subjective. For me it seems it's tied up to a number of principals on an album, contributing their unique style and personality to the music. And if too many are missing it becomes less and less recognisable as Yes for me.

[madbear]

Interesting points of view... 90125, Magnification and Big Generator have never sounded like Yes albums to me; Drama always has, as do Talk, Open Your Eyes and The Ladder. Tormato and Quest were poor Yes albums. Fly From Here sounded like Yes but not great. I can definitely hear GftO in MttS, yes. I think it's more than what a listener expects, i think it's about the balance between band members etc. Rabin didn't really fit in for me, there was too much orchestra on magnification, and i dont think Jon Anderson and Wakeman were settled in the Tormato studio period. In the end they are just music albums though.

[Chrisklenox]

I think the point that the guy was making is that it sounds as if the band went into the studio with the intention of "creating a Yes album" rather than they are the guys who are in Yes who happened to make music that sounds like this. In other words creative decisions were being made to make it "sound like Yes" rather than creating music organically with no preconceived outcome.

I like the record, but I think that's a very valid criticism. Keys to Ascension is another example of this, and I think Mirror to the Sky as well. Weirdly, Heaven and Earth sounds like more of a natural creative process to me.

[Homemade Parachute]

I think the point that the guy was making is that it sounds as if the band went into the studio with the intention of "creating a Yes album" rather than they are the guys who are in Yes who happened to make music that sounds like this. In other words creative decisions were being made to make it "sound like Yes" rather than creating music organically with no preconceived outcome.

That's an interesting angle as well, esp. as what I think we'd all pretty much agree on was a "definitive" Yes era, TYA through Relayer, came when the band members had fewer or no other options for outside work, so they brought in everything they had. Got an idea? Into "Close to the Edge" it goes! For the last however, they've had other options: every member of the current band does other things as well, and as much as we look at some of the bonus tunes on The Quest or MttS and think "Oh, that sounds like a Steve Howe solo song", well, he certainly had that option, and heard something different in it, something that belonged with Yes. Billy Sherwood, he's figuring out if an idea is right for Yes, Arc of Life, a solo album, any number of things. Geoff, is he doing something Yessy, something DBA-ish, or something else altogether? I guess I'm thinking it's natural at this point for a band with these expansive options in front of them to be thinking along those lines, and even if we can't always hear what they're hearing, they are making these choices. Maybe writing credits aside, it's that they can hear what these other bandmates will do with the song, so Steve writes "Unknown Place", but thinks "yes, this is a great song for what Jon and Billy will add to it", so it becomes a Yes song that way. I don't know, I'm not in the band…

[Homemade Parachute]

To me 90125 sounds like a Yes album. Because of Jon, Chris, Alan, Tony, not so much because of Rabin. Drama sounds like Yes to me because of Steve, Chris and Alan, not so much because of Trevor and Geoff. The same can be said for Fly From Here. I realise however there are fans out there who feel 90125 doesn't sound like Yes at all, or Drama doesn't sound like Yes.

That's funny, because to me, 90125 (one of the first Yes albums I heard before I knew anything about the band history [a gift, and as it turns out a monumental one], and also a flip flopper with CTTE for first and second favourite Yes albums of all) is a Yes album because that's what's on the cover, as it's clearly a Rabin dominated album. Yeah, there's some "ineffable" in all band discographies that might make you think this is more of a band album than this other one (Tull's Under Wraps, anyone?), in some cases it's who shows up, or the kind of music they want to make or what they're interested in at that moment, and sometimes it's because they break with exactly that, and drastically move the goal posts in one swoop. I also confess an anti-Drama bias over the years, as a Yes album without Jon Anderson was unthinkable to me, but I've certainly come around the more I heard how the band brought their A-game on that one, musically, even if it doesn't have that cosmic wackiness that is so indelibly Jon to anchor it…

[madbear]

I think the multiple bands and projects everyone is involved in is simply a response to how the music biz works these days. Tours are smaller, it's easier to make albums, and income is less. It's the combination of musicians and the attitude that makes a Yes album. I really do think MttS is quite an achievement.

It's interesting too the idea of organic music, but remember CttE was built up from segments, and the band learnt to play it [live] afterwards. There's no question about a classic Yes era, but as we can see on the forum here, plenty of people dont like Relayer or Topographic Oceans.

I can see why bands play their greatest hits and what is expected of them live, but I'd also welcome Yes being brave and doing a set of much more recent stuff with just one or two oldies included. (Unless they want to do Relayer complete of course.)

Spaghetti bolognese doesn't of course exist in Italy , it's a Western invention. (They have a meat sauce called ragu, made from pork - often wild boar - and lamb, which is the nearest thing to what we all make .)

But I'm just glad Yes are still around and making new albums I like, which hasn't always been the case.