Listen to the album Patrick Moraz recorded just prior to joining Yes - Refugee(s/t 1974) - man, what a progified opus and a half. Grand Canyon suite is worth the price of the album alone. Well, the question is, had Refugee (which was Moraz with Lee Jackson & Brian Davison of The Nice) decided to call themselves... The Nice - as opposed to new band moniker Refugee - would they have taken off more significantly, putting Moraz in the position to decline the Yes invitation? Keith Emerson left/split The Nice to form ELP. Jackson & Davison eventually got another keyboard virtuoso to replace him when they helped form Refugee. I know, not the same band, but, well kinda! Imagine the fireworks of a newly resurrected Nice with Moraz in Emerson's old spot, going head to head with ELP for attention. Not sure if Emerson owned the name the Nice which prevented that, or if Refugee were going for a new trio thing, but Refugee is sorta the Nice with a different keyboard maestro. I wonder if they kept the Nice name whether or not they would have been more of a sucess. On the other hand, that might have meant no Relayer, or no Relayer as we know it. Any thoughts? That Refugee album is a killer. Should have been more.
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Ritt Mickley was/is one of my favorite instrumentals from that era. Love the broken glass entry, then all hell breaks loose. Outstanding!Comment
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I’m gonna throw them both, Refugee and Mainhorse, on the turntable over next couple days. It’s been awhile! PM signed both my copies during the Chat Tour he performed at fans homes. Wonderful guy.
Great thread Soundwaveseeker, and a very interesting question!
Note - I picked up a few of The Nice records just this past summer when a vinyl store closed. I didn’t have any prior.
My flrst thought is that The Nice was maybe thought of as “Keith’s Band”, and they were looking for their own identity moving forward. But I really have no idea. Lol.Comment
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Mainhorse! Another one-and-done band/album, only one album in 1971. I think it was Moraz' 1st notable band, kind early-70's heavy rock with progressive elements - lots of organ, lengthy track on side two I remember called More Tea Vicar? Made up of other Swiss musicians, I think? It's a forgotten early 70's band/album. I'll have to throw that one on the listening stack, I haven't heard it a while either. It's kind of like One Live Badger with Tony Kaye, lot o' organ.
I remember that chat tour in the 90's! I attended one of those, he played only piano. He came in with a long scarf, looking like Dr Who. Didn't have anything for him to sign, but I enjoyed the piano performance. Way cool.
Not too late for Moraz to form another trio and call it 'Refugee'. The Nice guys, Lee Jackson is probably retired/musically inactive and Brian Davison is no longer with us. He'll have to start from scratch, but he could form something ultra-proggy and just call it Refugee. Why not? Well one can dream of scenarios like that anyway.Comment
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The Nice vs. Refugee.
While Moraz is an extraordinary keyboardist, I think it wiser that Jackson and Davison went with a new name for a new start for a new audience.
Could they have pulled off The Nice back catalog? I doubt it. Emerson and Moraz had completely different styles, and I think Moraz would have struggled with many of the Emerson parts. Emerson was so very uniqueComment
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Interesting topic! At the time they formed, rock was still in an era when a lot of new bands were forming from previous bands, and it seems that the prevailing pattern was to build excitement about the *new* band, so I doubt "Refugee" seriously considered going out as "The New Nice". Totally agree with pianozach about Emerson & Moraz having such different styles, too.Comment
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When Moraz left for Yes, I imagine it broke Jackson & Davison's hearts. They didn't try to hunt down another virtuoso keyboard guy after that, like Eddie Jobson or someone. That refugee album really was good. Jackson gets/got a lot of stick for his vocals, but I kinda like his bass playing on those nice albums and would even almost argue he was the better bass player or at least more interesting or even more innovative (bass played with a violin bow, a pick, a more groovier sound) than Greg Lake. I know, blasphemy, but listen to him on those nice albums even more so than the Refugee one. Some cool bass moments from Lee Jackson. Brian Davison was no slouch on drums either, he's no longer with us though.
Would Moraz have struggled with Emerson material? Maybe, but he would have been up for it I think. He would have had to make the material his own, like he did in Yes playing Rick Wakeman parts. It couldn't be the same or note for note, it would have to have been different enough.Comment
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Yeah, I'm the one that proffered that Moraz probably couldn't really 'cover' Emerson.
Then, this morning, I heard this.
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Yeah, he preferred a jazzier and more fluid style, but this is gold.
Oh, but Jackson's vocals were absurd. Sure, a great bassist, but an excruciating vocalist. I don't really 'get' how Emerson thought Jackson's vocals were OK. Surely there must have been better bassist/vocalists around. Or they could have found a stand-alone vocalist.Comment
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I would have been cool with Jackson on bass and Greg Lake on vocals and guitar, but JELP sounds weird. Yeah Lee's vocals - raw and, well yeah, absurd. I guess he was trying to be a bluesy kinda singer, but maybe kinda fitted that raw and primitive psychedelic sound maybe? They (the Nice that is) always did admit that vocals were their weak point. When the Nice reformed in the 2000's for some live reunion stuff his voice was even worse. Beware disc one of the live album that came from that. He sounds like he swallowed a live scorpion. I always say that about singers that lose their voice later on - looks like that scorpion got around.
As for that Moraz piano album - good stuff. He did two others, I suppose as a trilogy: ESP (Etudes Sonatas & Preludes) which is obviously more classical, and Resonance, which is in between the jazzy Window Of Time and ESP. Haven't heard them in a while though. Moraz is due for some more music.Comment
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So based on this chat, I have checked out Mainhorse ( stunning album!) on Apple Music and i am now convinced Pat made a huge mistake in joining Yes as his career was on the up with Mainhorse and Refugee - both terrific albums ( as is Relayer, to be fair) and Refgee could easily have survived for a few more albums at least untill the 'great purge' of of 1976/77.
Moraz is a fantastic player and i think he was reigned in to much by Yes. As to Refugee/nice. Refugee had PM's signiture style all over it so it was appropriate they used the name Refugee. Should have been an intrumental band though.Comment
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Refugee was a pretty impressive debut- whilst Lee's vocals can be described as an acquired taste- and I think Brian did a little too much snare - its certainly ranks up there with any of the prog albums of the era-In terms of whether they should have been Nice Mk2, they did play The Diamond Hard Apples On the Moon, but I tend to think that much of the more psychedelic aspects of the Nice's repertoire was rather passe, even by 1973! I think Pat was/ still is more than capable of playing Emerson- albeit with his own flair- It’s a pity that Yes snaffled him, given they then booted him out after just one album- I did read an interview in which Patrick he said that he regretted his departure and that if it had’ve been today- both bands would have continued.
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