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  • Somis Sound
    replied
    Originally posted by pianozach View Post

    Both Billy Sherwood and Trevor Rabin have been fairly transparent about what they did with Yes. I'd take them at their word.

    If Billy says he didn't work on Talk, it's very likely he didn't. Working with Yes isn't a thing a musician would sorta forget, or deny.

    Jimmy Haun was also quite forthcoming about what he did for the Union album.

    Perhaps the only tracks that have vague credits are the demos from Rabin submitted for Union.
    I agree. It is very likely Trevor replaced, "fixed", and/or edited a lot of Chris bass parts, as Chris said by the time he heard it, it sounded so manipulated and edited he couldn't tell what was him! As for the drums, Trevor 100% edited, chopped up, sampled/ looped, and manipulated Alan's drums. Not to mention adding sampled drums and cymbals over it. As for Billy, I think you are right.

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  • pianozach
    replied
    Originally posted by Somis Sound View Post

    Alan recorded all the drums at A&M studios. Rabin took the tracks back to his home studio and edited the heck out of them in the digital system. There are plenty of drum and cymbal samples too, not necessarily Alan. I don't think Billy played drums on a whole song, but it's possible sampled some cymbal or drum hits for Trevor. Chris said he played on the whole album. But again, by the time he heard it, it was so manipulated and edited, he couldn't tell what was him on a lot of it. Totally possible Trevor edited his bass lines or redid them in parts.... As for the drums, at the time he tracked the bass, the drums still were just the drum tracks, not manipulated, edited, or samples added with it yet. The 2 of them finished their parts WAY before the album was edited and finished by Trevor.

    Billy has said he played the bass on The More We Live or did this or that. He said he didn't play on Talk and I don't think it is the result of a NDA...
    Both Billy Sherwood and Trevor Rabin have been fairly transparent about what they did with Yes. I'd take them at their word.

    If Billy says he didn't work on Talk, it's very likely he didn't. Working with Yes isn't a thing a musician would sorta forget, or deny.

    Jimmy Haun was also quite forthcoming about what he did for the Union album.

    Perhaps the only tracks that have vague credits are the demos from Rabin submitted for Union.

    Leave a comment:


  • Somis Sound
    replied
    Originally posted by Frumious B View Post

    There are definitely some programmed drums and samples mixed in. I don’t have a fraction of Trevor Rabin’s musical ability, but even I can dick around with a drum machine and get something quasi-interesting out of it. I’m supremely confident that Rabin could do way better than me. And I know Alan White was just about the ultimate team player, but he was pretty consistently effusive in his praise of Talk and often cited it as one of his favorite Yes albums ever. It seems like he would be less fond of an album where half the drums are played by an uncredited Billy Sherwood.
    Alan recorded all the drums at A&M studios. Rabin took the tracks back to his home studio and edited the heck out of them in the digital system. There are plenty of drum and cymbal samples too, not necessarily Alan. I don't think Billy played drums on a whole song, but it's possible sampled some cymbal or drum hits for Trevor. Chris said he played on the whole album. But again, by the time he heard it, it was so manipulated and edited, he couldn't tell what was him on a lot of it. Totally possible Trevor edited his bass lines or redid them in parts.... As for the drums, at the time he tracked the bass, the drums still were just the drum tracks, not manipulated, edited, or samples added with it yet. The 2 of them finished their parts WAY before the album was edited and finished by Trevor.

    Billy has said he played the bass on The More We Live or did this or that. He said he didn't play on Talk and I don't think it is the result of a NDA...
    Last edited by Somis Sound; 06-07-2022, 12:12 PM.

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  • Frumious B
    replied
    Originally posted by bondegezou View Post

    I note your points. What can I say? I don't know the answer. I know a good source told me Sherwood played bass and drums on Talk. That may well be wrong, or it might be right.

    As for (4), I note that Rabin doesn't drum on his own work.
    There are definitely some programmed drums and samples mixed in. I don’t have a fraction of Trevor Rabin’s musical ability, but even I can dick around with a drum machine and get something quasi-interesting out of it. I’m supremely confident that Rabin could do way better than me. And I know Alan White was just about the ultimate team player, but he was pretty consistently effusive in his praise of Talk and often cited it as one of his favorite Yes albums ever. It seems like he would be less fond of an album where half the drums are played by an uncredited Billy Sherwood.

    Leave a comment:


  • Progify
    replied
    Originally posted by bondegezou View Post

    3/4 of the bass and 1/2 the drums is what I was told. I don't know how accurate this was. It could be a misunderstanding somewhere. Sherwood has denied it.
    I don’t hear any drums on Talk that sound like his usual tripping over the kit rhythmic stylings.

    Leave a comment:


  • Homemade Parachute
    replied
    Originally posted by luna65 View Post

    Yes I DO understand such a concept. I was asking if there was specifics either way.
    I wish I knew too, but Yes can be such a cagey band about some things, esp. after Union, eh? One day there will be a great documentary about the history of the band, Yeshōmon…

    Leave a comment:


  • bondegezou
    replied
    Originally posted by luna65 View Post
    Did you get specifics? I mean, officially it was always "no he didn't" but I can see them making a pact to cover up potential holes in the process, as it were.
    3/4 of the bass and 1/2 the drums is what I was told. I don't know how accurate this was. It could be a misunderstanding somewhere. Sherwood has denied it.

    Leave a comment:


  • bondegezou
    replied
    Originally posted by Frumious B View Post

    I don’t have access to the sources you do, but I have a hard time thinking this is the case for several reasons:

    1. I asked Billy Sherwood directly and he said he’s not on the record.
    2. Nearly all of the album was played live with Squire as the primary bassist and it didn’t seem like he was having any difficulty with the material at all or was unfamiliar with it. I know you can practice and learn these things, but if Squire was in such a bad way that the band had Sherwood ready to go as a backup for the tour then do you think Squire would have been in good enough shape to learn an album’s worth of new bass parts originally played by Sherwood?
    3. I think that Sherwood ghosting Squire would have made more of an effort to put more classic Squire trademarks into the record both because he was a superfan and it would have been his job to make people think his playing was Squire, much like it was Jimmy Haun’s job to sound like Steve Howe on Union.
    4. Trevor Rabin was all ready producing, singing, playing guitar, keyboards and co-writing the album. If he needed a little more bass here or there to fill in any gaps left by Squire he could have done it himself very easily.
    I note your points. What can I say? I don't know the answer. I know a good source told me Sherwood played bass and drums on Talk. That may well be wrong, or it might be right.

    As for (4), I note that Rabin doesn't drum on his own work.

    Leave a comment:


  • luna65
    replied
    Originally posted by Homemade Parachute View Post
    "Sherwood *did* do session work on Talk" and "Sherwood does *not* appear on the album" may not be mutually exclusive
    Yes I DO understand such a concept. I was asking if there was specifics either way.

    Leave a comment:


  • downbyariver
    replied
    Originally posted by Progify View Post

    Over 30 years?
    Alright, Talk was released in 1994, so 28 years. For some reason I was basing my mental math on Union.

    I'm glad there isn't some sort of forum wide accuracy rating by poster, because my performance on this thread would really be zeroing me out right now.

    Leave a comment:


  • Progify
    replied
    Originally posted by downbyariver View Post

    That's interesting. Someone should ask Sherwood about it in an interview. It's been over 30 years, he might be willing to admit to it now even if it was hush-hush at the time.
    Over 30 years?

    Leave a comment:


  • rabin105
    replied
    Originally posted by Homemade Parachute View Post

    Not to get all lawyerly (which I'm not, other than, you know, being a parent of snarky teenagers), but "Sherwood *did* do session work on Talk" and "Sherwood does *not* appear on the album" may not be mutually exclusive, if "session work" indeed means rehearsals, rough mixes/demos, etc etc, but material that is ultimately not used… I mean until Talk: Return Trip shows up, say…
    Stop giving Trevor Horn ideas I still have night mares about fly from here return trip

    Leave a comment:


  • Somis Sound
    replied
    Originally posted by Davy View Post
    Some of the bass work is probably Trevor. Even Chris on one of the documentaries said he's not sure how much of his playing is on it, although he may have been referring to the way some of the music was changed via the computer.
    Yep. He said much like BG, he and Alan had finished their work on the album much earlier. Trevor spent the bulk of the time on guitars, keys, editing, overdubbing, vocals, and mixing. And Chris did mention in some parts of Talk it was so manipulated and edited, he couldn't tell if it was him anymore. As Frum mentioned, if Trevor wanted to change a bass line, he certainly did. As well as added drum samples and editing all over the place. Listen to the live I Am Waiting, it is a bit different of a bass line than the album. But songs like Real Love or The Calling are spot on. The Talk live dvd is soooo good
    Last edited by Somis Sound; 06-06-2022, 02:40 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Davy
    replied
    Some of the bass work is probably Trevor. Even Chris on one of the documentaries said he's not sure how much of his playing is on it, although he may have been referring to the way some of the music was changed via the computer.

    Leave a comment:


  • Homemade Parachute
    replied
    Originally posted by luna65 View Post

    Did you get specifics? I mean, officially it was always "no he didn't" but I can see them making a pact to cover up potential holes in the process, as it were.
    Not to get all lawyerly (which I'm not, other than, you know, being a parent of snarky teenagers), but "Sherwood *did* do session work on Talk" and "Sherwood does *not* appear on the album" may not be mutually exclusive, if "session work" indeed means rehearsals, rough mixes/demos, etc etc, but material that is ultimately not used… I mean until Talk: Return Trip shows up, say…

    Leave a comment:

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