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Jay’s future with Yes

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    #46
    Originally posted by Mr. Holland View Post
    Not to overlook the fact that, apart from some of the hit acts of today, no albums are moneymakers anymore, certainly not for older acts. That ship has sailed some time ago. Touring is where the money is.
    And most hit acts are young. There are very, very, very few artists of Steve Howe's age who are still big successes. There are some, but you need to pick ex-Beatles and the like.

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      #47
      Originally posted by josuev80 View Post
      Kaye wouldn't allow himself to be used as a pawn for "legitimacy" purposes of the band's name.
      Again, anyway.

      There's something very sad about this thread when you read it in hindsight.
      Last edited by luna65; 06-01-2022, 07:02 AM.
      Rabin-esque
      my labor of love (and obsessive research)
      rabinesque.blogspot.com

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        #48
        Originally posted by bondegezou View Post

        Kansas still has one original member in Phil Ehart and another very early/classic line-up member in Rich Williams, but it's notable that they people who wrote nearly all the music, Livgren and Walsh, are long gone. The bassist, Greer, joined in 1985, after their best known albums, but a fair while ago. The band has continued to record, but set lists are mostly older music.
        Rich Williams is an original member.

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          #49
          Originally posted by Progify View Post
          Rich Williams is an original member.
          He was on the first studio album, but he wasn't there right at the start. He's not on Early Recordings from Kansas 1971–1973.

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            #50
            Originally posted by bondegezou View Post

            He was on the first studio album, but he wasn't there right at the start. He's not on Early Recordings from Kansas 1971–1973.
            That’s really an entirely different band altogether. Only Livgren is present there. “Proto-Kaw” as they are called in the current age, which actually means before Kansas. So, in order to determine the actual members of Kansas we need only to start at the recorded output of said band, without delving into White Clover or any of the other associated early acts.

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              #51
              Originally posted by Progify View Post

              That’s really an entirely different band altogether. Only Livgren is present there. “Proto-Kaw” as they are called in the current age, which actually means before Kansas. So, in order to determine the actual members of Kansas we need only to start at the recorded output of said band, without delving into White Clover or any of the other associated early acts.
              Yes.

              Same with other bands, notably The Beatles. They replaced drummer Pete Best with Ringo, just shortly before their first professional recordings as a stand-alone band. Ain't She Sweet and Cry For a Shadow are the only truly pro recordings made prior to that, but they'd been hired by Tony Sheridan as a backing band, and they somehow managed to squeeze in these two recordings made without him during the session. And they weren't released at the time, only surfacing later, after their first singles and first album had been released.

              But no one goes back and claims Pete ". . . was on the first studio album, but he wasn't there right at the start. He's not on Early Recordings from Kansas 1971–1973" with a straight face.

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                #52
                Originally posted by pianozach View Post
                Same with other bands, notably The Beatles. They replaced drummer Pete Best with Ringo, just shortly before their first professional recordings as a stand-alone band. Ain't She Sweet and Cry For a Shadow are the only truly pro recordings made prior to that, but they'd been hired by Tony Sheridan as a backing band, and they somehow managed to squeeze in these two recordings made without him during the session. And they weren't released at the time, only surfacing later, after their first singles and first album had been released.

                But no one goes back and claims Pete ". . . was on the first studio album, but he wasn't there right at the start. He's not on Early Recordings from Kansas 1971–1973" with a straight face.
                You're probably one of those people who says Geddy Lee is an original member of Rush.

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                  #53
                  Originally posted by bondegezou View Post

                  You're probably one of those people who says Geddy Lee is an original member of Rush.
                  The Red Rider fans here know what's what…

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                    #54
                    Originally posted by Progify View Post

                    Rich Williams is an original member.
                    Phil Ehart was also original Kansas member there on the first album. He and Rich Williams are the only two members who appear on every album. Proto-Kaw is pre-Kansas. Proto-Kaw/Early Recordings in Yes terms would be The Syn and Mabel Greer's Toyshop and associated acts.

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                      #55
                      Originally posted by bondegezou View Post

                      You're probably one of those people who says Geddy Lee is an original member of Rush.
                      No Mick Abrahams, no Jethro Tull

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                        #56
                        Originally posted by Soundwaveseeker View Post
                        Phil Ehart was also original Kansas member there on the first album. He and Rich Williams are the only two members who appear on every album. Proto-Kaw is pre-Kansas. Proto-Kaw/Early Recordings in Yes terms would be The Syn and Mabel Greer's Toyshop and associated acts.
                        Except Proto-Kaw was not called Proto-Kaw at the time. The band was called Kansas.

                        Had Mabel Greer's Toyshop been called Yes earlier... well, then it would have been Yes earlier.

                        If you want to argue that these early line-ups don't matter, what matters is who's there when a band makes it, then I agree. But I would personally favour using another word other than "original" to describe band members to whom that applies.

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                          #57
                          Originally posted by bondegezou View Post

                          Except Proto-Kaw was not called Proto-Kaw at the time. The band was called Kansas.

                          Had Mabel Greer's Toyshop been called Yes earlier... well, then it would have been Yes earlier.

                          If you want to argue that these early line-ups don't matter, what matters is who's there when a band makes it, then I agree. But I would personally favour using another word other than "original" to describe band members to whom that applies.
                          We need a word for the Neil Pearts, the Martin Barres of the world, who missed that crucial first album and so aren’t “original”, but really defined a band’s sound. Newsicians?

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                            #58
                            Originally posted by bondegezou View Post

                            Except Proto-Kaw was not called Proto-Kaw at the time. The band was called Kansas.

                            Had Mabel Greer's Toyshop been called Yes earlier... well, then it would have been Yes earlier.

                            If you want to argue that these early line-ups don't matter, what matters is who's there when a band makes it, then I agree. But I would personally favour using another word other than "original" to describe band members to whom that applies.
                            Well, this is true. ProtoKaw was named thus well after the fact - and went on to make three more albums in the current age. I agree the starting point is when that first album comes out and who's on that. 'Original' is a misleading title I suppose if there were others in on the formation of something. But album 1 and when a group is named is where I usually put the starting marker.

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                              #59
                              Also, the record deal with Kirshner was established before the band settled on going back to the name Kansas. So, the lineup for the first album was in place, and the name was agreed upon. All members appearing on the first, self-titled album are original members. To put the official stamp on this fact, the liner notes state: “We are Kansas! Kansas is a band!”

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                                #60
                                My favorite "First Album" story is that of the Moody Blues.

                                For the longest time now their website has pretended that album with Denny Laine never existed, even though it bills itself as the best site for information about the band. You'll also find that they've erased Mike Pinder and Pat Moraz, even though he was in the band 1978–1991. Ray Thomas is almost completely gone.

                                Actually, Pinder and Thomas do get a brief mention because they both guested on Lodge's 2nd solo album.


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