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    #16
    Originally posted by Zeroninety View Post

    I'd have loved for either H&E or The Quest to feature a Yessified version of the "Sunday News Suite": add a couple instrumental sections to let Steve and Geoff stretch out, and end with one more return to the amazing "Sunday News" chorus, and a terrific Buggles-y synthpop suite is transformed into a 20 minute+ Yes epic.
    Your words, to God's ear.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by Homemade Parachute View Post
      I wouldn't necessarily read a lot into it, other than maybe he's helped them out live, they all like each other and enjoy playing together, and felt he could add some colour or textures, to some extent. And likely as they're hoping to hit the road at some point, he'll likely be the main drummer for most of the shows, and if they're planning to play some of the new material, it'll help to have him way more aware of and invested in it. Or they're all lying and he laid down more of the core drums than they want to let on… I'll assume it's entirely Alan's call, how long he feels he wants to keep doing this; it doesn't seem like anyone is pushing him out, certainly given what he brings to the band legally, credibility-wise, historically, and just atmospherically. Bluntly, he's keeping the band from being "Steve Howe and Friends", as the longest-serving continuous member of the band. But also bluntly, Yes without Alan White could continue with Jay. Yes without Steve Howe, right now, I think is done. In the sense that there's no obvious replacement (no, it wouldn't be Rabin) who could take on being the frontman role. (If nothing else, Spinal Tap shows us how easy it is to replace the drummer but not the guitarist… sucks, drummers!)
      Well, here we are four months later, and, sadly, Alan has left us. Do you still think it's now just "Steve Howe and Friends"?

      Not only that, there are guitarists that COULD fill Steve's spot, if they were asked, and wanted to.

      Jimmy Haun has been on the periphery of Yes for a very long time now, and actually DID fill in for Steve Howe on Union. He's played with a two or three Yes members, as I recall. There's also Johnny Bruhns who's played with Chris Squire, as well as being the guitarist for a Yes tribute band. Johnny is probably the MOST "ready-to-go": I don't know if he sings or writes music, but he certainly has the guitar end nailed down. There's also some other tribute band guitarists that could fill in on a moment's notice as well.

      There are also some top notch A-List players that could likely work up the material as well. I'm sure you could fill in their names.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by pianozach View Post

        Well, here we are four months later, and, sadly, Alan has left us. Do you still think it's now just "Steve Howe and Friends"?

        Not only that, there are guitarists that COULD fill Steve's spot, if they were asked, and wanted to.

        Jimmy Haun has been on the periphery of Yes for a very long time now, and actually DID fill in for Steve Howe on Union. He's played with a two or three Yes members, as I recall. There's also Johnny Bruhns who's played with Chris Squire, as well as being the guitarist for a Yes tribute band. Johnny is probably the MOST "ready-to-go": I don't know if he sings or writes music, but he certainly has the guitar end nailed down. There's also some other tribute band guitarists that could fill in on a moment's notice as well.

        There are also some top notch A-List players that could likely work up the material as well. I'm sure you could fill in their names.
        It's too soon to tell whether it becomes Steve Howe and Friends, but I think that's where it's headed, yes. Part of that is Howe's own doing, by focussing relentlessly on material from one decade only, with rare, rare exceptions, and also on the whole album tour, where they try to recreate an album as closely as possible, which is something tribute bands are maybe more likely to do.

        Essentially Howe's now the only one with an extensive connection to the songs they choose to play in concert, so you've got JD, sang on two albums one of which we'll probably never hear from again, and another they may play a couple of songs from; GD, played on four albums, two of which we'll probably never hear from again, one of which may get tossed into the setlist occasionally, and one we're yet to see how they handle; JS, not yet played on any Yes album; and BS, played on two full albums we'll likely never hear from again, and one, again, we're yet to see.

        Are there many talented guitarists who could play SH's and TR's notes in concert? Absolutely. But without stepping into the Ship of Theseus territory, I have to believe that part of what makes a band a band is the shared experiences, of writing and performing, learning and growing together. Chris and Alan were phenomenal, not just as individual musicians, but as a team which had experimented together, learned from each other, and got better and better, together. I mean, the rhythm section on Sound Chaser was the same as on Owner of Lonely Heart — how ridiculous is that! Take out Steve, and any fine guitarist could fit in, yes, and they could even make great new music (you mention Jimmy Haun, and sure, he's got some history, but there already is a band with JD, JS, BS, and JH, and they've made their album), but would it be Yes without that shared experience, which is getting chipped away ever more?

        I've said before, I'd love to see today's Yes focus on what they can do, what their songs are, so they can learn from each other, figure out how each of them works, and what they can bring to the band. That's about the only way into a valid future that I can see, not replicating the same lines from previous musicians night after night.

        Comment


          #19
          I still say if Tony Kaye became a full time memeber even if he just played the encores well we would of at least one member from every album

          and in some cases two

          as for me I like Jay he likely will be the drummer and to me it’s still very much Yes looking at the current lineup you still have

          howe who was on the 70’s albums
          downes who has been on 5 albums if we count return trip as it’s own thing
          sherwood who was extremely important in the yes story since 1989 going as far as to resurrect yes in 97 when the band basically broke up (a feat he could of done twice had he been willing to be the lead vocalist in 06)
          Davison has been the lead singer for a decade making him the second longest lead singer in yes’s history and by January (I am assuming) he will have 3 albums under his belt
          and Jay Schellen has been associated with yes really since 2005 with Conspiracy Live

          is it the band any of us grew up with no but yes is about perpetual change

          will I support them without Alan of course I supported them without Jon and Chris as well

          Comment


            #20
            IMO there are two discussions running simultaneously and through each other.
            One is “When does Yes stop being Yes?”, or indeed the ship of Theseus. (1)
            The other is “Can Yes still make music that moves us as much as before?” (2)

            Yet another question is how you prioritize the touring band vs the recording unit.

            For my part, I notice I’m shifting towards the second discussion. Before, I was very
            purist about who was or should be in the band. Up to the point of ‘getting upset’ when
            people from outside the band were co-writing songs for Yes.
            These days I take the good music from wherever it comes and whoever writes it.

            I haven’t changed about what activity of the band matters most to me. It’s always been
            recording new music.

            I like the Yes brand, but not regardless of what it produces.
            If the next album is as much better than The Quest as The Quest is
            better than Heaven & Earth, I might like it was much as Fly From Here,
            and that would be great. No matter what the name on the cover is.

            Hope I’m making sense.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Ceasar’s Palace View Post
              IMO there are two discussions running simultaneously and through each other.
              One is “When does Yes stop being Yes?”, or indeed the ship of Theseus. (1)
              The other is “Can Yes still make music that moves us as much as before?” (2)

              Yet another question is how you prioritize the touring band vs the recording unit.

              For my part, I notice I’m shifting towards the second discussion. Before, I was very
              purist about who was or should be in the band. Up to the point of ‘getting upset’ when
              people from outside the band were co-writing songs for Yes.
              These days I take the good music from wherever it comes and whoever writes it.

              I haven’t changed about what activity of the band matters most to me. It’s always been
              recording new music.

              I like the Yes brand, but not regardless of what it produces.
              If the next album is as much better than The Quest as The Quest is
              better than Heaven & Earth, I might like it was much as Fly From Here,
              and that would be great. No matter what the name on the cover is.

              Hope I’m making sense.

              for me yes is whoever yes is and I will enjoy it until it’s over lol

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Ceasar’s Palace View Post
                IMO there are two discussions running simultaneously and through each other.
                One is “When does Yes stop being Yes?”, or indeed the ship of Theseus. (1)
                The other is “Can Yes still make music that moves us as much as before?” (2)

                Yet another question is how you prioritize the touring band vs the recording unit.

                For my part, I notice I’m shifting towards the second discussion. Before, I was very
                purist about who was or should be in the band. Up to the point of ‘getting upset’ when
                people from outside the band were co-writing songs for Yes.
                These days I take the good music from wherever it comes and whoever writes it.

                I haven’t changed about what activity of the band matters most to me. It’s always been
                recording new music.

                I like the Yes brand, but not regardless of what it produces.
                If the next album is as much better than The Quest as The Quest is
                better than Heaven & Earth, I might like it was much as Fly From Here,
                and that would be great. No matter what the name on the cover is.

                Hope I’m making sense.
                As much sense as anyone makes around here, sure…

                In a lot of ways, we're in uncharted territory, which is interesting. When you say "Can Yes still make music that moves us as much as before?", I think they can, but maybe not in the form we expect: part of what makes Arc of Life so interesting (although, full caveat, I may have given it a spin on streaming and that's it), is that they're (mostly) very associated with Yes, but not Yes, and this wasn't recorded as a Yes album, and the songs, as far as I know, not brought to Yes. Maybe they were, and Steve rejected them; maybe, and I've said this before, the writers have a feeling as to where these songs best live, and they become AoL, not Yes, for them. Fair enough. I think when Yes made their main sequence that everyone seems to love so much, they had far fewer outlets for their music, and so almost everything got poured into Yes. (Not to mention the pressures in the early 70s of cranking out an album a year — they needed everything they could get!) Things change, though, and Jon in the 80s is a great example: he's got Vangelis, he's got his solo stuff, he's got Yes, he's got a tonne of ways of sharing his music, and somehow in there he figures out what the best outlet is — he can swing from Big Generator to City of Angels to ABWH in a couple of years. Today, Billy, say, has solo albums, Arc of Life, Yes, probably twenty other collaborations we don't know about, and that's going to swing both ways: maybe part of what made Yes so interesting and weird and progressive is they as writers and players had nowhere else to dump their ideas, so they brought it all together and called it Yes. Fifty years on, though, it's much harder to do that (maybe unless you're King Crimson…): you inevitably start to second guess, and figure out "is this Yes-like?" and if not, you might put it over there, instead.

                TL;DR: Yes, the *members* of Yes can still make music that moves you as much as before, but it may not be on a Yes album.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by Homemade Parachute View Post

                  As much sense as anyone makes around here, sure…

                  In a lot of ways, we're in uncharted territory, which is interesting. When you say "Can Yes still make music that moves us as much as before?", I think they can, but maybe not in the form we expect: part of what makes Arc of Life so interesting (although, full caveat, I may have given it a spin on streaming and that's it), is that they're (mostly) very associated with Yes, but not Yes, and this wasn't recorded as a Yes album, and the songs, as far as I know, not brought to Yes. Maybe they were, and Steve rejected them; maybe, and I've said this before, the writers have a feeling as to where these songs best live, and they become AoL, not Yes, for them. Fair enough. I think when Yes made their main sequence that everyone seems to love so much, they had far fewer outlets for their music, and so almost everything got poured into Yes. (Not to mention the pressures in the early 70s of cranking out an album a year — they needed everything they could get!) Things change, though, and Jon in the 80s is a great example: he's got Vangelis, he's got his solo stuff, he's got Yes, he's got a tonne of ways of sharing his music, and somehow in there he figures out what the best outlet is — he can swing from Big Generator to City of Angels to ABWH in a couple of years. Today, Billy, say, has solo albums, Arc of Life, Yes, probably twenty other collaborations we don't know about, and that's going to swing both ways: maybe part of what made Yes so interesting and weird and progressive is they as writers and players had nowhere else to dump their ideas, so they brought it all together and called it Yes. Fifty years on, though, it's much harder to do that (maybe unless you're King Crimson…): you inevitably start to second guess, and figure out "is this Yes-like?" and if not, you might put it over there, instead.

                  TL;DR: Yes, the *members* of Yes can still make music that moves you as much as before, but it may not be on a Yes album.
                  You have a good point about the outlets.

                  I sometimes think back with nostalgia to the 70s when (at least where I come from) there were only two kinds of potato chip flavours: natural (salty) and paprika...

                  Then again, these days my favorite by far is cheese & onion.

                  What were we talking about?

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by rabin105 View Post
                    I still say if Tony Kaye became a full time memeber even if he just played the encores well we would of at least one member from every album

                    and in some cases two

                    as for me I like Jay he likely will be the drummer and to me it’s still very much Yes looking at the current lineup you still have

                    howe who was on the 70’s albums
                    downes who has been on 5 albums if we count return trip as it’s own thing
                    sherwood who was extremely important in the yes story since 1989 going as far as to resurrect yes in 97 when the band basically broke up (a feat he could of done twice had he been willing to be the lead vocalist in 06)
                    Davison has been the lead singer for a decade making him the second longest lead singer in yes’s history and by January (I am assuming) he will have 3 albums under his belt
                    and Jay Schellen has been associated with yes really since 2005 with Conspiracy Live

                    is it the band any of us grew up with no but yes is about perpetual change

                    will I support them without Alan of course I supported them without Jon and Chris as well
                    Kaye wouldn't allow himself to be used as a pawn for "legitimacy" purposes of the band's name. It would very similar to the situation with White when he toured from 2016 on with Schellen (and Dylan Howe). He is also 76 and is probably content with what he has been doing musically the last several years.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      well here's what I reckon:

                      Yes is a perpetually changing lineup, the question remains does that extend to the point beyond the classic members being present at all? I believe it can, if the band are able to tap into multiple generations of Yes through touring 70s, 80s and 90s material, as well as promoting newer material as a priority- (The Quest and its follow up must take up a decent part of the set I believe). This allows newer lineups to maintain the connection to the past whilst also giving the newest iterations' works a spotlight in the setlist.

                      If the band is now Howe/Davison/Schellen/Downes/Sherwood

                      I think we will see Arc of Life simply become Yes when Howe leaves, I reckon Geoff may also decide to leave then. If Arc of Life feel comfortable carrying on the Yes legacy then all power to them- of course the branding of Yes has alot of power still. If they don't feel comfortable then that is also fine, Yes has achieved so much already.

                      Personally I think a lineup of

                      Haun/Davison/Schellen/Wakeman(Oliver)/Sherwood

                      might work for a time at least, but as I said only if they want to be called Yes and only if the fans accept them. To go beyond the Classic members entirely is uncharted waters, but I will support these guys.
                      The Definitive YES Albums

                      -The Yes Album-Fragile-Close to the Edge-Tales From Topographic Oceans-
                      -Relayer-Going for the One-Drama-90125-Big Generator-Union-Talk-
                      -The Ladder-Magnification-Fly From Here-The Quest-

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by soundchaser09 View Post
                        Personally I think a lineup of

                        Haun/Davison/Schellen/Wakeman(Oliver)/Sherwood

                        might work for a time at least, but as I said only if they want to be called Yes and only if the fans accept them. To go beyond the Classic members entirely is uncharted waters, but I will support these guys.
                        Two of those musicians played on Union, maybe we could finally hear some of that material live?

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Homemade Parachute View Post

                          It's too soon to tell whether it becomes Steve Howe and Friends, but I think that's where it's headed, yes. Part of that is Howe's own doing, by focussing relentlessly on material from one decade only, with rare, rare exceptions, and also on the whole album tour, where they try to recreate an album as closely as possible, which is something tribute bands are maybe more likely to do.

                          Essentially Howe's now the only one with an extensive connection to the songs they choose to play in concert, so you've got JD, sang on two albums one of which we'll probably never hear from again, and another they may play a couple of songs from; GD, played on four albums, two of which we'll probably never hear from again, one of which may get tossed into the setlist occasionally, and one we're yet to see how they handle; JS, not yet played on any Yes album; and BS, played on two full albums we'll likely never hear from again, and one, again, we're yet to see.

                          Are there many talented guitarists who could play SH's and TR's notes in concert? Absolutely. But without stepping into the Ship of Theseus territory, I have to believe that part of what makes a band a band is the shared experiences, of writing and performing, learning and growing together. Chris and Alan were phenomenal, not just as individual musicians, but as a team which had experimented together, learned from each other, and got better and better, together. I mean, the rhythm section on Sound Chaser was the same as on Owner of Lonely Heart — how ridiculous is that! Take out Steve, and any fine guitarist could fit in, yes, and they could even make great new music (you mention Jimmy Haun, and sure, he's got some history, but there already is a band with JD, JS, BS, and JH, and they've made their album), but would it be Yes without that shared experience, which is getting chipped away ever more?

                          I've said before, I'd love to see today's Yes focus on what they can do, what their songs are, so they can learn from each other, figure out how each of them works, and what they can bring to the band. That's about the only way into a valid future that I can see, not replicating the same lines from previous musicians night after night.
                          That is quit the excellent post there!

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by rabin105 View Post


                            for me yes is whoever yes is and I will enjoy it until it’s over lol
                            Yes is of course whoever Yes is. We don't have a say in that. However I don't like an album or song automatically because it says Yes on the cover.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              I'm just going to be super honest. I'm not sure what to think? Part of me says that Yes has to contain at least some of the original members who played in the early days, and that perhaps the music has to end and just be treasured and preserved, remembered and loved. The other part of me almost looks at it like something so special that it must be played and lived on in a band. I almost see it like in Orthodoxy the way we believe in apostolic succession, that the apostles have kept the deposit of faith and Holy Mysteries alive through the laying on of hands in apostolic succession for millennia. Billy is the successor of Chris. Jay is the successor of Alan. Both had the blessings of those men. Not sure who'd be the new Steve or Geoff/Rick/Patrick/Tony? Another part of me just wishes we could've gotten one more Howe-Anderson collaboration, but I understand why it didn't happen and don't believe it should've been forced either. The other part of me wishes for an ARW album.

                              I'm full of wishes. Not sure what to think. As it says in Dune, "If wishes were fishes, we'd all cast lots"

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Jon begat Chris who begat Pete who begat Tony who begat Bill who begat Steve who begat Rick who....(Fallopians 1:5)

                                Jesus, Joseph and Mary

                                Peter, Paul and Mary

                                Pop goes the Cosmos

                                The Cosmos goes Pop


                                A Livin' Island grows and regenerates

                                Music to my Ears has to be fresh and new

                                Let's see what the next album sounds like.

                                Juano is developin' nicely as a songwriter

                                Tom, Oliver, Jimmy, Dylan. Young. In the wings.

                                Comment

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