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    Any fans of “White”?

    After Alan died, I realized that I didn’t have his “solo” work so I got Ramshackled on Vinyl and White on CD.

    I’ve listened to Ramshackled before and like it more than most seem to, but I hadn’t ever listened to White.

    What do people think about this album? I like it a lot so far and it features some great playing from Alan and Geoff.

    #2
    I guess when I checked it out back then it didn’t impress me much. But maybe I should revisit it, this time not so focused on whether it’s ”Yessy” enough...

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      #3
      Was not too fond of it at the time

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        #4
        I loved it and wished a few of the songs were yes songs

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          #5
          To be honest, I wasn't really into that particular band. It wasn't bad, it just never captured my imagination. "Dreamaway" was probably the best song on the album IMO, followed by "Fate".

          I feel odd offering a lukewarm opinion on an album that the Alan White was involved with given his still recent passing. So, I do want to make sure that I reiterate that I am a huge fan of most of his work with Yes, the album he did with Circa: (Circa: is a very underrated band in general), and his work on the studio cuts of John Lennon's "Imagine" and George Harrison's "My Sweet Lord".

          Also, with due respect to the excellent Bill Bruford, I preferred the style and performances of Alan White in his prime. Alan and Chris Squire were an all-time great rhythm section on Drama, 90125, and Big Generator, and of course it should also be noted that Alan was great at handling the earlier more progressive material as well, as the original drummer on Tales from the Topographic Oceans (Including "The Ancient"), and a performer of all things Yes for 50 years or so of his life.

          Not every side project is for everyone, and not everyone will always like everything even their favorite musicians do over the course of their musical lifetimes. But there's no question that Alan White was capable of and made some great music- just not with the White band IMO. And even that definitely has it's fans. It's not anything that borders on being objectively bad. It's professional.
          "A lot of the heavier conversations I was having with Chris toward the end were about his desire for this thing to go forward. He kept reiterating that to me. [...] He kept telling me, 'No matter what happens, Yes needs to continue moving forward and make great music. So promise me that that's something you want to do.'. And I have to keep making music. It's just what I do. [...] I'm a fan of the band and I want to see it thrive and that means new music." -Billy Sherwood

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            #6
            I like it. Absolutely.

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              #7
              Originally posted by downbyariver View Post
              Also, with due respect to the excellent Bill Bruford, I preferred the style and performances of Alan White in his prime. Alan and Chris Squire were an all-time great rhythm section on Drama, 90125, and Big Generator, and of course it should also be noted that Alan was great at handling the earlier more progressive material as well, as the original drummer on Tales from the Topographic Oceans (Including "The Ancient"), and a performer of all things Yes for 50 years or so of his life.
              No apologies or conditions required, really: clearly Alan and Chris got on better than Bill and Chris did, and the two of them indeed worked as a rhythm section almost ceaselessly for 45 years. I mean, other than my brother, I don't think I've even *known* anyone that long, never mind performed as a team with them, you know? Sure, they had highs, and some lows, along the way, but that chemistry is part of why it all worked, and why members in a significant band can't be easily replaced, technical chops aside. Bill was a great drummer, absolutely, but I think what he wanted was different from what Chris wanted, and from what Alan wanted, so having a partner more in alignment with your own goals is a very real edge.

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                #8
                I very much like the album and was glad to add it to my collection when it came out in 2006. It fits in with the World Trade/Sherwood/John Payne Asia/Esquire/21st century Syn side of things in the Yes Cinematic Universe. Good rock. I would bring it with me to the beach - good after swimming/before goin' out to the boardwalk at night kinda stuff. Orangey sky music. Haven't listened to it in a while. I will revisit soon.

                This isn't for the prog crowd, this is a rock album. That said, it's not devoid of tasty playing too. You can't go wrong if Geoff Downes is on there, though he's a little restrained. But that's ok, it's not his album. He's a team player here and does supply some nice synths and organ. He shimmers on these tracks. The singer Kevin Currie sounds to me a little like John Palumbo from Crack The Sky - a quirky American classic rock band with art rock leanings. Currie's got that raspy voice that might not have been my cup of Earl Grey if I didn't already like Crack The Sky. I saw that the White band had a new female singer a bit later on, but no second album with that lineup ever emerged. I'll always be curious about what that could have been.

                Alan himself sounds fine as ever - no pyrotechnics, he plays for the song. You can tell it's him behind the kit. His style is unmistakable. Ok, so it's not in Sound Chaser or The Ancient mode, but flip damn does the sound of his drums make me feel good - regardless of whether it's proggy or if it's more accessible AOR rock. That's what it's all about, does the music make you feel good. This album does. A shame that's all they released was this one album. But it has a place in my collection, I enjoy the album. Since there wasn't any new Yes album during most of the 2000's, I filled the gap with the Syn, White, Conspiracy, Asia, GPS, Steve Howe's Remedy, Wetton/Downes Icon & Billy Sherwood.

                Fave trax?
                Beyond The Sea Of Lies,
                New Day -one of these was released as a digital single at the time,
                Give Up Giving Up,
                Dream Away - the 'ballad' track, would that have been a hit in 1991/2?
                Once And For All
                Mighty Love - this one in a reggae mode, I can totally see it as a Yes song with Jon Anderson

                Beautiful Roger Dean cover - a snowy landscape, wintery pine trees on the usual Dean floating islands. Despite the Alpine cover, the White band album is a summer album for me. I can almost smell the sunscreen and hear the crashing waves and see the neon lights of Ocean City seafood joints on the boardwalk. A laid-back album of fun rock stuff. I'd recommend it to those ok with Asia, Big Generator, Circa etc. - the more rock side of the Yes Saga.
                Too bad there wasn't a second album, White band was fine in my book.

                And I still have my cancelled concert ticket for the 2005 More Drama Tour with The Syn, White and Steve Howe.

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                  #9
                  ^^^ Pretty much agree. SWS. As usual ya make a lot of sense. So. Here's another one for ya....


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                    #10
                    Thanx. Bring on them orangey skies. Then I'll listen to that White album again.

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                      #11
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                      Originally posted by JMKUSA View Post
                      After Alan died, I realized that I didn’t have his “solo” work so I got Ramshackled on Vinyl and White on CD.

                      I’ve listened to Ramshackled before and like it more than most seem to, but I hadn’t ever listened to White.

                      What do people think about this album? I like it a lot so far and it features some great playing from Alan and Geoff.



                      How Did White Get its name?

                      Sounds obvious after all these years, I think Ultimate Classic Rock in its relatively recent review of the 2006 release said “..they might be the most famous person in the band.” Thankfully, the story is a bit more interesting.

                      The history in bullet form is this:

                      1. Alan White had played on both Treason and Merkaba albums, and parties were all close friends.

                      2. Treason was taking a break, Merkaba had recently downsized and Alan was in between Yes commitments

                      3. Merkaba had been using a rotating drummer scheme in its live shows, with Alan sometimes asked to sit in behind the kit

                      4. Currie, Boyce, Hogan and White had started recording Hogan songs, and sent roughs over to Stockwell at his studio to see if he was interested in contributing keys, guitars and production

                      5. Stockwell added Guitar and Keyboards as well as worked on production to give it a more of a focused sound – taking it in a very different direction than Merkaba

                      6. A new Merkaba of Currie, Boyce, Hogan, Stockwell & White performed in Washington State, USA and began working on new material

                      7. The writing dynamic changed, with Stockwell contributing the majority of material – initially working with Rick Hogan, and Kevin Currie being the dominant cowriter

                      8. Steve Boyce asked Stockwell to release Hogan from the project, sadly something that Hogan held deep resentments for years until a long overdue heart to heart healed past wounds and disrespects

                      9. Billy Sherwood and Stockwell had a long relationship dating back to the first Treason album which Billy Sherwood had mixed, and Alan White played drums on

                      10. Sherwood was working with Chris Squire on a Conspiracy records, heard the roughs of what would become Loyal, played it for Squire and Chris began calling the Currie, Boyce, Haug, Stockwell and White band Treason and suggesting a Conspiracy and Treason Tour in between Yes outings

                      11. Alan White didn’t want to “joinTreason, Stockwell and Currie wanted to move past Merkaba and a bunch of new names were tried. We all agreed that a single word (like Yes, Merkaba or Treason) was wanted, more positivity was sought and something which had several meanings was preferred.


                      Enter White.


                      Alan first approached Stockwell and asked what he thought of it. Although it sounded like Bruford (although Bill Bruford wrote lots of his own material, Alan did not as Ultimate Classic Rock got right), it satisfied all of the other criteria and as the rest of the band didn’t have any opinion, and it was seen as respectful towards Alan – White became the name.

                      I can’t end this answer without noting that Ultimate Classic Rock needs to review the entire White Catalog – Origins, Loyal and WhiteSongs to really get their review and placement correct and respectful - 71/77 is not reflective of the collective power of the original band on the original 3 albums – and Geoff Downes never got the chance to add the keyboard parts he wanted on the final album.


                      In general – I don’t think anyone (except maybe Boyce who helmed the mix of the 2006 release) feels good about the 2006 White release. Kevin is not happy with the mix nor energy, Geoff can’t be happy with not having the time afforded to do what he’s known for, Karl has commented many times that the album is not as good as Loyal – hell even Yes Tour Management liked Loyal better.

                      Once the catalog of White material is release, Alan will be honored and respected properly. Listen up Ultimate Class Rock!

                      https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCL_...os5-izrXinvCDQ



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                        #12
                        As I said I would, I recently yanked that White album to the beach with me - sounded good. No orangey skies though, but did have some nice lightning. White is a fine album. Again, it's not a prog album for the Close To The Edge-and-nothing-else crowd. It's a fun rock album. Drums sound punchy, he plays for the song.

                        I don't think I've even heard Treason/Origins and what's Whitesongs? Wasn't 'Loyal' what the White band evolved from? I know they were working with a female singer towards the end, though no new White album emerged.

                        Go to Amazon and grab a copy of White, last I saw it was 6 bucks. And no, the low price is not indicative of the music contained within. White was a fine album/band.

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                          #13
                          They also did a killer version of Machine Messiah. Kevin Currie on vox. These bad boys could swing. On YT I think. Done in the lead up to that aborted US tour with The Syn.
                          Last edited by Gilly Goodness; 08-11-2022, 01:50 PM.

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                            #14
                            That was an interesting era - the More Drama Tour and the following In The Present tour as Howe/Squire/White was the beginning of the Drama album being reassessed and getting some reevaluated love after being the whipping boy of the Yes catalogue for years and years. Drama forever! Let the panthers purr into infinity.

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by Soundwaveseeker View Post
                              As I said I would, I recently yanked that White album to the beach with me - sounded good. No orangey skies though, but did have some nice lightning. White is a fine album. Again, it's not a prog album for the Close To The Edge-and-nothing-else crowd. It's a fun rock album. Drums sound punchy, he plays for the song.

                              I don't think I've even heard Treason/Origins and what's Whitesongs? Wasn't 'Loyal' what the White band evolved from? I know they were working with a female singer towards the end, though no new White album emerged.

                              Go to Amazon and grab a copy of White, last I saw it was 6 bucks. And no, the low price is not indicative of the music contained within. White was a fine album/band.
                              =========

                              Ted Stockwell here - Founding member and original keyboard and guitar player in White.

                              There's a great YouTube Series here which runs through the first 3 (as of yet) unreleased White albums (in order) Origins, Loyal and whitesongs. WhiteSongs is LIVE (the only live recording of White) and Alan took Loyal to play Fate, DreamAway and maybe another song completed from Loyal to be used on Seattle Rock Radio stations - this was before the reworked album with Geoff Downes on RockLine.

                              Most of the focus was on the original lineup (Currie, Boyce, Haug, Stockwell & White) and that was the lineup which worked with Billy & Chris' Conspiracy (featuring Jay Schellen) for what ended up being The More Drama Tour. Geoff came in after I left (reasons being poor management - sadly a Yes hallmark) and they banged out 60% of Loyal with some rehashed Rick Hogan songs brought in to respect copyright and IP ownership. Boyce helmed the mix, but it's not (in my, Hogan and Currie's opinion) in the same league as the original three White albums. I know Geoff has lamented at the schedule and budget not being able to give the material the treatment it deserved, and Alan's playing doesn't have the fire the original catalog continues to display.

                              The More Drama Tour was a disaster in so many ways (quick example - first show was scheduled at the then Air Canada Center in Toronto which holds 20,000 at a time when Yes proper was filling 5000 seaters). Anyways - all documented on the Original White Band YouTube channel here.

                              Ping [email protected] for a copy of the catalog ... I'd be curious your thoughts since you started with the 4th album. Meanwhile - here's a link to the

                              White LIVE version of Machine Messiah
                              White LIVE version of Changes

                              Interestingly - in 2018, while working on mixing Origins and whitesongs, Boyce and I were talking and Steve asked me if I would rejoin White for a possible east coast tour. Of course I was intrigued to be able to again take the music to the stage. However, Steve didn't want to work with Kevin Currie (instead preferring to take the gal they had at the time), and much like Rick Wakeman hasn't gone on stage with Yes without Anderson, I felt the same way. Without the voice of White - it wasn't the real deal and an audience knows authenticity.

                              The 2018 tour never happened because of the financials. All made sense to me because they hadn't released anything in more than a decade. I suggested they release the materials being worked on and told them they had my blessing and to "go with god." Much as I was disappointed with the handling of the More Drama Tour (something Downes was not complimentary of as well in our talks over beer), there's a way to do business and when egos get in the way - well, nothing good ever comes of that. My real life business scale makes Yes and company look like a corner store in The Arctic. I'm good at sensing failure.

                              The music and passion are the real deal on the first 3 albums. The business and management f'd up an amazing opportunity for band and fans alike.


                              Ted Stockwell
                              Founding Member White
                              Founding Member Treason
                              Last edited by ted.stockwell; 08-11-2022, 03:18 PM.

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