Who's a better guitar player

[Andrea YouAndI]

Originally Posted by umgekehrt

Imagine how the kids at school must've made fun of his name... Moraz! Poor kid...

Well, you never know, back in his native Switzerland there may have been other Morazes around... Moraz is the only Yes member for whom I actually use his surname more than his first, because I think it sounds cool. I've got boring English surname myself.

Mooooorazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

[cinderella]

Steve and Trevor are both great, I can't compare them to each other.

They are both in my top 3.











(Beneath Gary Moore.)

[sirlespaul]

Originally Posted by umgekehrt

Imagine how the kids at school must've made fun of his name... Moraz! Poor kid...

Ha. yeah that would be sorta funny. I can imagine it.
"Patrick has a funny name! Patrick has a funny name!"
lol

[F.C.]

Rabin's playing is typical generic 80's hair metal playing. I know he's classically trained, and a quite accomplished multi-instrumentalist but it all boils down to the genericism of his playing. If I wanna hear a guy playing like this, I'll throw some Judas Priest on the player (yes, you've heard right).

Steve, on the other hand, is self taught and one word defines his playing: idiosyncrasy. His playing is unique and no one sounds like him, and no one can tackle so many styles of playing as much as Steve and yet sound unique as he does. My final argument is: the best Yes album in my opinion, was recorded with a Gibson Les Paul Junior, the cheapest and most basic of all Les Paul models. Doesn't that tell you anything?

[cinderella]

Originally Posted by westvic

unfortunately--TREV will always lose this one---I'm perplexed as to why Yes fans don't like him

Yeah who knows, it's one of the unanswered questions of the universe.

[Andrea YouAndI]

Originally Posted by F.C.

Rabin's playing is typical generic 80's hair metal playing. I know he's classically trained, and a quite accomplished multi-instrumentalist but it all boils down to the genericism of his playing. If I wanna hear a guy playing like this, I'll throw some Judas Priest on the player (yes, you've heard right).

Steve, on the other hand, is self taught and one word defines his playing: idiosyncrasy. His playing is unique and no one sounds like him, and no one can tackle so many styles of playing as much as Steve and yet sound unique as he does. My final argument is: the best Yes album in my opinion, was recorded with a Gibson Les Paul Junior, the cheapest and most basic of all Les Paul models. Doesn't that tell you anything?

I totally agree with the Howe part! Like I said elsewhere, Steve is a genius!

But your Rabin evaluation, please allow me to question. You're lowering him to the level of Motley Crue and Warrant? I think not, he's way better than that. Have you heard any Rabbitt or his solo works, from the pre-hair metal days? You'll find a lot less "generic" stuff on those. Also, I've never heard anyone do that lightning-fast fretwork (ie, "Changes") the way Trevor does.

Now if you had compared Rabin to Def Leppard, Scorpions, or Van Halen, I would have agreed wholeheartedly, because I enjoy all of those bands. Those three groups were the ones that every run-of-the-mill hair metal band was trying to replicate. And honestly, I think a lot of hair bands borrowed from Rabin as well.

[sirlespaul]

My guess is Trevor is a great musician but just doens't use it way to much since he has more of an 80's style. Some of guitar playing is impressive and i'm sure Steve could do all of it and do it all better but Trevor is still a great musician.

[luckeydoug1]

Originally Posted by F.C.

Rabin's playing is typical generic 80's hair metal playing. I know he's classically trained, and a quite accomplished multi-instrumentalist but it all boils down to the genericism of his playing. If I wanna hear a guy playing like this, I'll throw some Judas Priest on the player (yes, you've heard right).

Steve, on the other hand, is self taught and one word defines his playing: idiosyncrasy. His playing is unique and no one sounds like him, and no one can tackle so many styles of playing as much as Steve and yet sound unique as he does. My final argument is: the best Yes album in my opinion, was recorded with a Gibson Les Paul Junior, the cheapest and most basic of all Les Paul models. Doesn't that tell you anything?

This battle was raging long before I became a Yes fan and I am sure it will still be being debated for years to come. It all comes down to preferences. And I also believe nothing anyone from the oposing side says will convince others to change their minds. That being said:

I am a huge fan of Trevor's multiple styles of playing. I am impressed with his lightning fast passages as well as his slower, melodic leads. I have not found anyone (and I do me anyone) else who comes close, for me. The myriad of styles in I'm Running alone is more than enough to convince me.

I agree that Howe is very talented, but his style does nothing for me. And this criticism is not towards Howe alone, but rather of all who play in this style. 95% of his stuff simply bores me to tears. Not saying it's bad, just doesn't do a thing for me. Trevor's playing, on the other hand, simply excites me more than 95% of the time.

I am not sure what the points of classically trained vs self taught really brings to the debate. Performance and style is what it is, regardless of how it was obtained. (FWIW, I have to believe that much of what Trevor brings to the show is self taught as well)

For me, the guitar playing on the best Yes albums (90125, Big Generator and Talk) was done by Trevor Rabin. And no, I don't think Steve could play whatever Trevor can play. He proved this to me on the Trevor Horn tribute performance of Owner... he didn't even get the notes right, nor did he capture the style correctly in that articulated solo (just before Chris's ripping bass part) near the end. And I think this small section is an extremely important contrasting part of the song! And, no, I don't think he could do I'm Running, Make It Easy, Lift Me Up, The Calling, State Of Play, I Am Waiting, I Can't Look Away, Sludge, or Moving In (to mention just a few) justice. On the other hand, I think Trevor handled the 'classic' stuff just fine on the 90125 and Big Generator tours.

At the end of the day it all comes down to preferences. It simply comes down to what each of us is looking for in a guitar performance.

[shortexchanges]

Billy Sherwood?

[Dantalion Rides Again]

Originally Posted by luckeydoug1

This battle was raging long before I became a Yes fan and I am sure it will still be being debated for years to come. It all comes down to preferences. And I also believe nothing anyone from the oposing side says will convince others to change their minds. That being said:

I am a huge fan of Trevor's multiple styles of playing. I am impressed with his lightning fast passages as well as his slower, melodic leads. I have not found anyone (and I do me anyone) else who comes close, for me. The myriad of styles in I'm Running alone is more than enough to convince me.

I agree that Howe is very talented, but his style does nothing for me. And this criticism is not towards Howe alone, but rather of all who play in this style. 95% of his stuff simply bores me to tears. Not saying it's bad, just doesn't do a thing for me. Trevor's playing, on the other hand, simply excites me more than 95% of the time.

I am not sure what the points of classically trained vs self taught really brings to the debate. Performance and style is what it is, regardless of how it was obtained. (FWIW, I have to believe that much of what Trevor brings to the show is self taught as well)

For me, the guitar playing on the best Yes albums (90125, Big Generator and Talk) was done by Trevor Rabin. And no, I don't think Steve could play whatever Trevor can play. He proved this to me on the Trevor Horn tribute performance of Owner... he didn't even get the notes right, nor did he capture the style correctly in that articulated solo (just before Chris's ripping bass part) near the end. And I think this small section is an extremely important contrasting part of the song! And, no, I don't think he could do I'm Running, Make It Easy, Lift Me Up, The Calling, State Of Play, I Am Waiting, I Can't Look Away, Sludge, or Moving In (to mention just a few) justice. On the other hand, I think Trevor handled the 'classic' stuff just fine on the 90125 and Big Generator tours.

At the end of the day it all comes down to preferences. It simply comes down to what each of us is looking for in a guitar performance.

Excellent post! I certainly prefer Steve Howe's style, and this post still resonated as articulate & fair. Well, except for the part about which albums are the three best Yes albums

[YESYOUANDI]

Rabin was a good "stand in" for Steve whilst the MASTER took a break.

But Sir Steve IS the sound of REAL Yes.

Rabin could never take his place----he sounds too much like so many other Joe average guitar players to me.

Cheers fans.

[shortexchanges]

I think Trevor handled the 'classic' stuff just fine on the 90125 and Big Generator tours.

That version of And You and I is awful. The highlight is the use of harmonica to cover wakemans original keyboards. Its on the last disc of yes years and it sounds tepid at best. The Trevor shred of Yours in No disgrace on the Union tour is a Yes spinal tap moment.

I like Trevor and Talk shows his best work within the band. Real Love is a sublime masterpiece of heavy rock, that I do not think steve has in his D.N.A.
I would also love to hear Trevor play some Drama tracks. Into the Lens would be awesome with Trevor on lead guitar.



The Going for the One and Tormato tours show steve at his prime Rocking and really demonstrating mastery of his unique style.

The recent tours like 2001 Orchestra tour showed some slowness in the opening of Close to the Edge. Other fans have commented that Steve has got the rust out. Please play Soundchaser (awesome speed metal Yes) and I will believe.

Yes with a three guitar attack with Peter, Steve, and Trevor reworking classics and new material to accomadate such power would be just mindblowing!!! Imagine those three doing the version of Astral Traveler on Tales from Yesterday!!

Its rare to have a no lose choice!

[F.C.]

Originally Posted by BassFishGirl

I totally agree with the Howe part! Like I said elsewhere, Steve is a genius!

But your Rabin evaluation, please allow me to question. You're lowering him to the level of Motley Crue and Warrant? I think not, he's way better than that. Have you heard any Rabbitt or his solo works, from the pre-hair metal days? You'll find a lot less "generic" stuff on those. Also, I've never heard anyone do that lightning-fast fretwork (ie, "Changes") the way Trevor does.

Now if you had compared Rabin to Def Leppard, Scorpions, or Van Halen, I would have agreed wholeheartedly, because I enjoy all of those bands. Those three groups were the ones that every run-of-the-mill hair metal band was trying to replicate. And honestly, I think a lot of hair bands borrowed from Rabin as well.

Yes, I've compared him to the latter three bands you've referred to--but mostly Judas Priest cos KK Downing and Glenn Tipton are the forerunners of this particular style of playing found on Leppard, Scorpions and Van Halen, so I think we're in agreement.

Now, to the Trevor and 80's Yes albums and Talk fan, if Howe doesn't have any resonance in you, you're entitled to your opinion, but you don't know what you're missing. Trevor is metallic flashiness all the way, even when doing something more introspective. An example is "Solly's Beard", where he seems to be really emotionally resonant with his playing and when I listened to it I thought "wow, maybe that guy can tackle some Howe" until he started doing that muted string fast picking part--now that's pure generic 80's hair metal, come on. And whoever said how much the "And You And I" from the box sucked, I'll second that. And Rabin's got nothing on Steve on a good "Yours Is No Disgrace" rave up or the majestic "Wurm".

[Andrea YouAndI]

Ok, ok, I give up. To each is own. I'm sorry but both Howe and Rabin do "resonate" with me, and many times on the same level--they are pretty much equals to me. Sure their styles are very different, but I have a respect for both prog and '80s hard rock. I just don't want to fight over this. Sorry I disputed your opinion. :-(

[sirlespaul]

Originally Posted by YESYOUANDI

Rabin was a good "stand in" for Steve whilst the MASTER took a break.

But Sir Steve IS the sound of REAL Yes.

Rabin could never take his place----he sounds too much like so many other Joe average guitar players to me.

Cheers fans.

A pretty harsh way of saying it but i have to agree. I'm sure the band was not happy that Steve left. In fact i bet they probably would have broke up if they didn't find Trevor. Trevor had a different style of guitar (which i don't really like) that he brought to Yes and I don't think he is an "Average Joe" guitar player. my guess is that he was a really great guitar player and thats just what they needed. Sure their style went all 80's but you can't blame it on Trevor. Who knows maybe they would have went with the style of the 80's with Steve. Maybe it's that Steve didn't like the way "Drama" wen't and thats why he wanted to leave. Who knows i guess.

[F.C.]

Originally Posted by BassFishGirl

Ok, ok, I give up. To each is own. I'm sorry but both Howe and Rabin do "resonate" with me, and many times on the same level--they are pretty much equals to me. Sure their styles are very different, but I have a respect for both prog and '80s hard rock. I just don't want to fight over this. Sorry I disputed your opinion. :-(

Hey, we are in agreement, just look at the first paragraph of my post.

The second was aimed at Luckeydoug1, the avid Rabin fan for whom Howe doesn't stir any feelings on him/her.

[Buglunch]

Originally Posted by JL

I voted Steve because he's my favorite of the bunch, but Banks and Trevor are outstanding players. I didn't know that Moraz played guitar.

( He did say he was considered for GTR before personnel list was settled and there's no g or t in "keyboard"! )
Keytar, yes, but here's what happened to him when he tried a REAL gitbox:

[emerson_brady]

Originally Posted by MrZuLu

I'll tell you what...

Patrick Moraz!


that's my vote!

Pat all the way, man!!!

Seconded (though Bob Hagger's no slouch either...)

[Andrea YouAndI]

Originally Posted by Buglunch

( He did say he was considered for GTR before personnel list was settled and there's no g or t in "keyboard"! )
Keytar, yes, but here's what happened to him when he tried a REAL gitbox:

And you say this guy's your hero?

[Cosmic Prarie]

I think that you need to go backward instead of forward when trying to assertain the greatness of Steve Howe. Not compared to Trevor Rabin, but compared to Peter Banks. (With no disrespect to Peter Banks)
If you give a good listen to the Banks body of works and how it fits into the overall original gestation of the Yes concept, then you are exposed to Howe, there is no question that Steve Howe's infusion into working and writing with Anderson, Squire, Kaye and then Wakeman, Bruford and White....I'm searching for the right adjective.....completes;explodes;perfects;....it makes the whole Yes thing....Yes.
I don't consider one better than the other, on any level, Banks, Howe or Rabin. Just a different time and place in Yes' history.