2012....(not the movie....the real thing)

[RickyG]

Originally Posted by Zulubass

Here we go again with all the apoclyptic sensationalism. Terrible to be a young kid who thinks there is some predetermined date to our demise. This sort of crap steals away some of that childhood hope and wonder. Sadder thing is that it is only going to get worse as we get closer. Why? To sell some books or movie tickets?

Does anyone actually read the thread before posting?
How about just the last post above your own post?

(Hey, you any relation to Mr. Zulu... also a bass player....??)

[Borris]

Originally Posted by RickyG

It's curious to me how people still latch onto the total non-reality, misinformation of it all and react/respond to that regardless of what has been said.

Specifically:
~ This is NOT about religion, silly or otherwise, it's about a very highly developed science of astronomy, and the measuring/marking of it with elaborate calendars.

~ Neither the Mayans nor their calendars predict the end of the world.

~ Additionally, from a larger perspective it is also about earth changes and evolution of human consciousness..... things that are already happening if one cares to notice. And I imagine most around here do notice these things to varying extents.


Surely there must be more than Borris and myself who resonates with some of the thoughts expressed earlier in this thread?! Yesrolfer, inside_out, cjreyes, TYTM, YYY, yesanneyes.... where are you??

Just you and me on this one so far RickyG.

I imagine the movie is just some sort of scary end of the world disaster movie and there have been others like that. It is interesting to consider some aspects of that. Disaster movies have a place in our cultural consciousness. Maybe partly because as a society we are creating our own disaster, we are fighting wars of greed, we are polluting the waters the earth air even space on a truly alarming scale. Not only that but our cities are noisy, smelly, most jobs from office clerk to CEO are tiresome and conducted in sterile surroundings. Maybe these movies are expressing a collective dissatisfaction.

So many people feel it is so hard to make a living to make ends meet, but we are clever we must be doing it right. How do you make a living? Well that's a really strange thing because food just grows from the ground. If you had a hectare of ground and planted it around with trees to protect from wind etc then inside planted a wide variety of fruit trees, nuts, vegetables, you are provided with plenty of good quality food in a beautiful environment. In fact a wide variety of food means you don't have to use chemical fertilisers, your soil gets better year by year rather than depleting and it provides far higher yields per area than modern agriculture, which produces poor quality produce with varying degrees of poisons in them. Modern agriculture does however produce high monetary profits for a few, is that what's important?

Then there is the ancient culture side to this discussion who were the Mayans, the Egyptians? How did ancient people live? Well present humanity regard them as pretty primitive we think that society has evolved and our society now is the greatest there has ever been, putting aside the small issue of how we're destroying our life support system. The precision of the constructions of these ancient cultures, their use of block up to 200 tons and highly sophisticated astronomy all make it plain that these are not cultures that suddenly went from primitive tribal cultures to building pyramids, there is simply a lot we don't know about ancient cultures and we shouldn't pretend that we do know.

When it comes to ancient religions we should be very wary about making judgements. I have seen threads on this site about so called supernatural phenomena and it is interesting to see how many people have had direct experiences, this is on top of the rich legacy of recorded instances and yet modern science has a world view that excludes these events and even more bizarrely even marginalises the importance of thought. Ancient cultures nearly always had a greater understanding of some of the higher functionality of the mind.

So come on the dawn of the Age of Aquarius when we learn to love again, live amidst the beauty of the earth, use our intelligence and explore the functionality of the mind and thought, with nature, not against it.

[RickyG]

Originally Posted by Borris

Just you and me on this one so far RickyG.

I imagine the movie is just some sort of scary end of the world disaster movie and there have been others like that. It is interesting to consider some aspects of that. Disaster movies have a place in our cultural consciousness. Maybe partly because as a society we are creating our own disaster, we are fighting wars of greed, we are polluting the waters the earth air even space on a truly alarming scale. Not only that but our cities are noisy, smelly, most jobs from office clerk to CEO are tiresome and conducted in sterile surroundings. Maybe these movies are expressing a collective dissatisfaction.

So many people feel it is so hard to make a living to make ends meet, but we are clever we must be doing it right. How do you make a living? Well that's a really strange thing because food just grows from the ground. If you had a hectare of ground and planted it around with trees to protect from wind etc then inside planted a wide variety of fruit trees, nuts, vegetables, you are provided with plenty of good quality food in a beautiful environment. In fact a wide variety of food means you don't have to use chemical fertilisers, your soil gets better year by year rather than depleting and it provides far higher yields per area than modern agriculture, which produces poor quality produce with varying degrees of poisons in them. Modern agriculture does however produce high monetary profits for a few, is that what's important?

Then there is the ancient culture side to this discussion who were the Mayan's, the Egyptians, how did ancient people live? Well present humanity regard them as pretty primitive we think that society has evolved and our society now is the greatest there has ever been, putting aside the small issue of how we're destroying our life support system. The precision of the constructions of these ancient cultures, their use of block up to 200 tons and highly sophisticated astronomy all make it plain that these are not cultures that suddenly went from primitive tribal cultures to building pyramids, there is simply a lot we don't know about ancient cultures and we shouldn't pretend that we do know.

When it comes to ancient religions we should be very wary about making judgements. I have seen threads on this site about so called supernatural phenomena and it is interesting to see how many people have had direct experiences, this is on top of the rich legacy of recorded instances and yet modern science has a world view that excludes these events and even more bizarrely even marginalises the importance of thought. Ancient cultures nearly always had a greater understanding of some of the higher functionality of the mind.

So come the on the dawn of the Age of Aquarius when we learn to love again, live amidst the beauty of the earth, use our intelligence and explore the functionality of the mind and thought with nature not against it.

Oh Borris, are you just another crazy idealistic hippie reading Anastasia books and paying considered attention to YES lyrics??!

(Great post, BTW.... thanks for holding the vision, and believing/knowing/seeing the Truth of it.....)
"Where two or more are gathered..."

.

.

[Borris]

Originally Posted by RickyG

Oh Borris, are you just another crazy idealistic hippie reading Anastasia books and paying considered attention to YES lyrics??!

(Great post, BTW.... thanks for holding the vision, and believing/knowing/seeing the Truth of it.....)
"Where two or more are gathered..."

.

Yes, I was awakened by the dream, my eyes saw the coming revolution and it was Earth Mother Earth.

[MorningGlory]

What bothers me the most (we all remember Y2K) is that the Jewish/Christian calendar has been modified many tymes, so it may be a pre calculated target instead of an actual date...

[pianozach]

Originally Posted by tidewater

It's been 2 years now that I learnt about the 2012 predictions by the Mayan Calendar.....Before that I knew about several predictions about the Apocalypse,including the St.Malachy Pope predictions that have so far all come true....You might think it is madness but I AM SCARED.I am not a religious fanatic,far from it...I can only see that too many signs are here to behold.All over the news....I am really beginning to wonder:are all these natural disasters really the result of a planetary tilting?????12000 year-thereabouts Earthly cycle,nearly at the end....(remember the Noah Flood.....)God I wish I had realistic answers......

As I see it, pretty much all "predictions" about the end of the world are inherently vague enough to allow for folks all through history imagining that it applies to their generation.

Christians especially seem to be subject to apocalyptic sensationalism, although the New Testament plainly contradicts the Old Testament. (Revelations vs. "Thief in the Night" 1 Thessalonians 5:2 & 2 Peter 3:10).

Like Neilius and Morning Glory said . . .

Originally Posted by neilius

Every generation back to the stone age have had their worries about the world ending. . . .

Originally Posted by MorningGlory

I quickly realized that EVERY generation was in 'the last days' . . .

Now THIS, on the other hand . . .

Originally Posted by ANTIOCH

I had also heard something about the Sun moving into perfect alignment with the black hole in the Milky Way and the Earth and that the scientist don't know what to expect from this ? Google 2012 and there's alot of info to consider. . . .

. . . Well, there's a lot of krap on the internet . . . any one can post anything . . . there's no Accuracy Oversight Bureau to prevent the Google Search Engine from finding idiotic drivel, flotsam, deliberate misinformation, rumours, speculation and crazy-ass rantings of the mentally unstable or impressionable.

But the "Sun moving into perfect alignment with the black hole in the Milky Way and the Earth"?

Umm . . . source, anyone?

C'mon, the subject has attracted doomsayers, end-of-the-world armegeddonists, occultists, and just plain ignorant kooks.

Originally Posted by MorningGlory

What bothers me the most (we all remember Y2K) is that the Jewish/Christian calendar has been modified many tymes, so it may be a pre calculated target instead of an actual date...

Yep, the Judeo-Christian calendar kind of evolved to today's version - but the original was so wildly inaccurate that it had to be revised several times.

The most notable was the British Calendar Act of 1751, which declared the day after Wednesday September the second to be Thursday the fourteenth!

[kirk]

Originally Posted by pianozach

As I see it, pretty much all "predictions" about the end of the world are inherently vague enough to allow for folks all through history imagining that it applies to their generation.

Christians especially seem to be subject to apocalyptic sensationalism, although the New Testament plainly contradicts the Old Testament. (Revelations vs. "Thief in the Night" 1 Thessalonians 5:2 & 2 Peter 3:10).

Like Neilius and Morning Glory said . . .







Now THIS, on the other hand . . .



. . . Well, there's a lot of krap on the internet . . . any one can post anything . . . there's no Accuracy Oversight Bureau to prevent the Google Search Engine from finding idiotic drivel, flotsam, deliberate misinformation, rumours, speculation and crazy-ass rantings of the mentally unstable or impressionable.

But the "Sun moving into perfect alignment with the black hole in the Milky Way and the Earth"?

Umm . . . source, anyone?

C'mon, the subject has attracted doomsayers, end-of-the-world armegeddonists, occultists, and just plain ignorant kooks.



Yep, the Judeo-Christian calendar kind of evolved to today's version - but the original was so wildly inaccurate that it had to be revised several times.

The most notable was the British Calendar Act of 1751, which declared the day after Wednesday September the second to be Thursday the fourteenth!

I dunno Zach, would it hurt to do some human sacrifices, just in case?
We don't want to risk pissing off MICTLANTECUHTLI

The thing about these myths, is there's so many of them, that
eventually one may get lucky, although who'll be around to say
"I told you so!" ?

K

[RickyG]

Originally Posted by MorningGlory

What bothers me the most (we all remember Y2K) is that the Jewish/Christian calendar has been modified many tymes, so it may be a pre calculated target instead of an actual date...

Originally Posted by pianozach

As I see it, pretty much all "predictions" about the end of the world are inherently vague enough to allow for folks all through history imagining that it applies to their generation.

Like Neilius and Morning Glory said . . .

Yep, the Judeo-Christian calendar kind of evolved to today's version - but the original was so wildly inaccurate that it had to be revised several times.

But... ummm.... repeat information here: Neither the Mayans nor their calendar predict the end of the world nor any sort of cataclysmic disaster.

The Judeo-Christian calendars have nothing to do with it.
The Mayans were not using nor referencing the Judeo nor Christian nor Roman nor Chinese nor Viking calendars.

2012 just happens to be the date on our calendar that corresponds to the date when the Mayan calendar ends.
Change our calendar all you want, it will just correspond to whatever you want to call two years from now.

[RickyG]

Originally Posted by kirk

I dunno Zach, would it hurt to do some human sacrifices, just in case?

K

I'll gladly provide a list of candidates....

[pianozach]

Originally Posted by RickyG

But... ummm.... repeat information here: Neither the Mayans nor their calendar predict the end of the world nor any sort of cataclysmic disaster.

The Judeo-Christian calendars have nothing to do with it.
The Mayans were not using nor referencing the Judeo nor Christian nor Roman nor Chinese nor Viking calendars.

2012 just happens to be the date on our calendar that corresponds to the date when the Mayan calendar ends.
Change our calendar all you want, it will just correspond to whatever you want to call two years from now.

Yes, yes, we know . . .

there was a thread in which the subject of the mayan calendar was visited a while back . . .

It's a multi-calendar that works on the following time divisions:

days (k'in)
20 day months (called winal)
18 month years (called tun)
20 year scores (called k'atun)
and
20 score 'fort-centuries' (called bak'tun)

Thus:

a k'in=day

a winal=20 days (a Mayan month)

a tun=18 winal's (360 days, almost a year)

a k'atun=20 tun-s (7200 days, almost 20 years)

bak'tun=20 k'atun-s (144000 days, almost 400 years)



BUT . . . The Mayan calendar is a combination of two calendars:

The first, the Tzolk'in consisted of days that are numbered 1-13, AND ALSO a name, of which there were twenty. These would cycle through every 260 days (This is important!).

The Tzolk'in was used in astrology and prophecy, and was the somewhat 'holy' calendar.

The tzolk'in is a cycle of 260 days. Each day in the cycle is identified by both a day number and a day name glyph. The tzolk'in date in this example is a day 3 Ahaw. Thirteen day numbers and 20 day names were used. The sequence of day names is Imix, Ik, Ak'bal, K'an, Chikchan, Kimi, Manik', Lamat, Muluk', Ok, Chuwan, Eb, Ben, Ix, Men, Kib, Kaban, Etz'nab, Kawak, Ahaw. The day before 3 Ahaw is 2 Kawak. On the day after 3 Ahaw, the sequence of 20 day names begins again, with 4 Imix. The day numbers continue to increase to 13, then revert to 1. Thus counting ten days from 3 Ahaw, the day 13 Ok is reached. It is followed by 1 Chuwan.

Because 13 x 20 = 260, each day in the tzolk'in cycle has a unique name-number combination. The day 3 Ahaw repeats only after 260 days. This system may seem rather complicated, but it is really little different than combining week day names with the day of the month in our system. Thus, for example "Tuesday the 31st" might be followed by "Wednesday the lst."

The second, the Haab, is always 365 days long (this is also important). The Mayan DID know that a year was really 365 days plus a quarter day (surprised?), but did not feel the need to worry about it.

The Maya divided the year into 18 time periods (their version of 'months') of 20 days, plus a short 5-day month, which was considered very unlucky. Each month had a name, and each day of the month had a number.

So now, imagine that, as before with the 13 numbered and 20 named days, that the two "year" type calendars - the 260 day calendar (the Tzolk'in) and the 365 day calendar (the Haab) also cycle. This creates a repeating cycle of 52 years (I know, I know . . . if you multiply the number of days: 260 x 365 = 94900 days. But, the common factor of 260 and 365 is 5. Therefore, the cycle repeats only every 18980 days (because 94900/5 = 18980). This is a cycle of 52 years (18980/365).

So . . . since a 52 year calendar really sucks when it comes to recording historical events that happened over 52 years ago, the Mayans used what we now call "The Long Count". The Long Count represents the number of days which have passed since the end of the previous Great Cycle, a period of 5125 years.

This long count was expressed in bak'tuns, k'atuns, tuns, winals, and k'ins. So . . . today, February 6, 2010 would be expressed by a five number long count - in this case 12.19.17.1.9 (12 baktun, 19 K'atun, 17 Tun, 1 winal and 8 k'in) after the beginning of the cycle. Surprisingly, the long count is actually a modified base 20 number system: All periods except the tun are 20 times the previous period. The Maya used place holding arithmetic and the concept of zero before they were invented in the Old World.

It's generally accepted that the Mayan calendar's current beginning count (Great Cycle) started August 11 (or August 12 or 13, depending on which scholar's calculations you prefer), 3114 BC ("The Creation") and finishes up in 2012.

OK, why a 5125 year Great Cycle?

Here's the cut-n-paste:

The time keeping system of the Mayans was a combination of several cycles that meshed together, marking the movement of the Sun, Moon and Venus. Their sacred calendar, the Tzolkin, is based on the cycles of the Pleiades, encompassing 26,000 years.

"The emergence of humankind - Homo Sapiens - represents a particular stage in the evolutionary cycle of a star system, a stage in which the purposive integration of the four levels of consciousness becomes a distinct planetary possibility. The stage, Homo Sapiens, has a duration of 26,000 tun or five great cycles of 5,200 tun each. The 26,000-tun cycle is roughly equivalent to the so-called Platonic Great Year. The 5,200-tun cycle is but the fifth or last stage of the current evolutionary cycle. What we are experiencing is the climax of our particular species and evolutionary stage - the very last 26 years of a cycle some 26,000 years in length!" (Jose Arguelles, The Mayan Factor, p. 175)

Where do we go from here? This 26,000-year cycle is slated to end on December 21, 2012. We are now in the last k’atun of the cycle, stage 13, AHAU. Thirteen, the foundation movement in all things, is the most powerful of the galactic pulsation rays. With the morphogenetic quality of “Complete Transformation," AHAU should lead us into spiritual regeneration and a planetary golden age. On December 21, 2012, a rare celestial alignment will culminate, aligning the galactic and solar planes. At this point, the winter solstice sun will conjunct the Milky Way, creating a “sky portal” in the “dark rift” of the Milky Way. The morphogenetic quality beginning on this date, 1 IMIX, will be “Galactic Synchronization.”

“The unique moment, the moment of total planetary synchronization, 13.0.0.0.0 on the beam, will arrive – the closing out not only of the Great Cycle, but of the evolutionary interim called Homo Sapiens. Amidst festive preparation and awesome galactic-solar signs psychically received, the human race, in harmony with the animal and other kingdoms and taking its rightful place in the great electromagnetic sea, will unify as a single circuit. Solar and galactic sound transmissions will inundate the planetary field. At last, Earth will be ready for the emergence into inter-planetary civilization. Then, as if a switch were being thrown, a great voltage will race through this finally synchronized and integrated circuit called humanity. The Earth itself will be illumined.” (Arguelles, p. 194)

Most New Age scholars view the December 21, 2012 (the Winter Solstice) not as an end-of-times event, but rather, as a beginning, a new enlightenment or a universal consciousness.

Got it?

[pianozach]

Well, that said, only 1048 days, 5 hours and 37 minutes to the end of the Mayan calendar . . .

http://www.2012supplies.com/They_Warned_Us.htm

[DaveJB]

I have one problem with saying everything ends in 2012. If they really could predict the end of the world, why didn't they see the Spanish coming? That was pretty effectively the end of their world.

More to the point, the comics earlier probably were spot on, the guy doing the calculations probably said it's a few thousand years out in the future, I'm tired of doing this calculation!

[RickyG]

Originally Posted by pianozach

Yes, yes, we know . . .

Come on Zach, my friend, you don't need to get testy with me over this. Apparently many people don't know, or don't pay attention, because there's alot of repetition about "end of the world gloom and doom prophecy" in spite of what has been said to the contrary, regarding what the calendar and the Mayans themselves say.

And Morning_Glory's issue with the our calendars is legitimate for our calendars but has nothing to do with the Mayan's as the Mayans never reference "2012", as can be seen from your detailed informative post.

there was a thread in which the subject of the mayan calendar was visited a while back . . .

Yes, I'm the one that contributed much of the information to that one... assuming we are referencing the same thread.

Got it?

Well, I get the technical stuff about the mathmatics of their calendars, but Arguelles is making his own stuff up (or "channeling" information). Plenty of Mayan scholars, and Mayans themselves disagree with him and have said there is no basis for the things he has said, at least no basis in the calendar itself nor in Mayan culture, spiritual beliefs or sciences.
There are those who see him as a sham... a new age snake oil salesman.

Of course it would be interesting if he was right!

Plus... if this is what we want to happen, then maybe we can create it. Just as we now create greed, war, starvation, fear, oppression... because it is what we want. Or are deluded and manipulated to think it is what we want.

[RickyG]

Originally Posted by DaveJB

I have one problem with saying everything ends in 2012. If they really could predict the end of the world, why didn't they see the Spanish coming? That was pretty effectively the end of their world.

Well, then don't say it!
Re-read the previous posts, they were not predicting the end of the world! What the calendar points to and the time cycles it lays out has nothing to do with events like Spanish invasions. Plus their vision wasn't limited to "their world" as in their particular society....

Anyway, how do you know they didn't see the Spanish coming?
Seeing it, doing something about it, and/or being able to do something about it are three different things.

Look at humanity right now, some day in the not all too distant future people just might be saying "how come they couldn't see global climate change coming as a result of the way they abused the environment, and why didn't they do anything about it if they did?"

You can apply that perspective to many issues facing humanity right now.

[pianozach]

Originally Posted by RickyG

Come on Zach, my friend, you don't need to get testy with me over this. . . .

TESTY?!?!?!?!?

Um, sorry. Didn't mean to sound testy.

Originally Posted by RickyG

Apparently many people don't know, or don't pay attention, because there's alot of repetition about "end of the world gloom and doom prophecy" in spite of what has been said to the contrary, regarding what the calendar and the Mayans themselves say.

And Morning_Glory's issue with the our calendars is legitimate for our calendars but has nothing to do with the Mayan's as the Mayans never reference "2012", as can be seen from your detailed informative post.

Yes, I'm the one that contributed much of the information to that one... assuming we are referencing the same thread.

Well, I get the technical stuff about the mathmatics of their calendars, but Arguelles is making his own stuff up (or "channeling" information). Plenty of Mayan scholars, and Mayans themselves disagree with him and have said there is no basis for the things he has said, at least no basis in the calendar itself nor in Mayan culture, spiritual beliefs or sciences.
There are those who see him as a sham... a new age snake oil salesman.

Of course it would be interesting if he was right!

Plus... if this is what we want to happen, then maybe we can create it. Just as we now create greed, war, starvation, fear, oppression... because it is what we want. Or are deluded and manipulated to think it is what we want.

Critical mass. Yes it can happen.

As far as the prophecies of Armegeddon end-of-times Four Horsemen Black Hole Rapture Second Coming Planetary Alignment Fritz said it would be like this . . . well, it seems that every ten years or so there's some scare . . . last one was the Y2K scare (Hey, divide 2000 by 3 and you get the number of the Beast!), which, in a way, was a completely arbitrary point in time to base a time-based disaster vortex. Yeah, 2000 was special simply because it contained three zeros.

Well, unless you include the British group The Lord's Witnesses, who believed that the Bible contains codes which predicted, amongst other events, the end of the World. Based on this code they have charted the history of Mankind from the birth of Adam in the year 4027BC to its destruction in 2008 – the result of a horrific world war.

One of my personal favorites the prediction that Pope Leo IX made in 1514 when he wrote "I will not see the end of the world, nor will you my brethren, for its time is long in the future, 500 years hence" . . . which would make in 2014.

The JW's keep prediciting the End: They last predicted doomsday as 1984. they also got it wrong in 1874, 1878, 1881, 1910, 1914, 1918, 1925 and 1975.

In any event, the prophesiers have almost always predicted that these horrendous events would happen in their own immediate future. And there's been a doomsday prediction for every year of this century http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrld.htm

All of these predictions have one thing in common: None of them came true.

[MorningGlory]

Do you remember Y2k? Some calendars were indeed affected , but the hype that in sued was way out of line.. I've been trying to find info on the Vatican star chamber where the modern calendar was apparently tweaked a few hundred years ago, so mabey its not so accurate, I do believe something will happen as creation and evolution continue, but this seems more programed by man rather then nature...

[Hunnibee]

Originally Posted by kirk

I dunno Zach, would it hurt to do some human sacrifices, just in case?

Good luck finding any virgins around here!

[kirk]

Originally Posted by Hunnibee

Good luck finding any virgins around here!

Them's Druids your thinking of there, Melissa.

K

[RickyG]

Originally Posted by Hunnibee

Good luck finding any virgins around here!

Virgins?
Why would we want to sacrifice virgins?
I was thinking politicians and Wall Street executives.

Originally Posted by kirk

Them's Druids your thinking of there, Melissa.

K

Hey, Kirk, leave those Druids alone!

(Unfortunately nearly the whole lot of them got "sacrificed" by the invading Romans...)

[MorningGlory]

really, I think if any one wants to get an education, we would desire to take this issue a little more seriously, The Coliseum is no different from the witch-hunt, and that is no different then the Holocaust ...............