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Thread: Why such a boring set list?

  1. #361
    Again Dantalion Rides Again's Avatar
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    Re: Why such a boring set list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frumious B View Post
    It’s gotten sorta buried by 46 plus years of live recordings, but that original studio version of “Roundabout” is really something. I never skip it and I still crank it when it crops up on the radio.
    Quote Originally Posted by luna65 View Post
    Totally agree.
    Thirded. I never tire of the studio version. Probably because I don't like live versions honestly. Which is probably because of how much I adore that studio version.

    The number of comparatively lousy live versions makes me want to always skip live Roundabout, and replace it with a studio version listen. Like planting trees to replace the chopped ones.

    I shall aspire to achieve a restored balance of Roundabout experiences.

  2. #362
    Again Dantalion Rides Again's Avatar
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    Re: Why such a boring set list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Enlighten View Post
    Nothing beats the studio recording of that song. It’s so well produced. It’s the singular piece of music that inspired me to pick up bass guitar. Brilliant
    Oops fourth'd

  3. #363
    Trevor Howe jimmygtr's Avatar
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    Re: Why such a boring set list?

    So....did Billy play with more passion and conviction than Chris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holland View Post
    Were you there? I saw the performa2nce in London in 2004 and saw the performance last March. The version of last march was played with considerable more passion and conviction the way I experienced it. It was very powerful and emotional, moreso than what I experienced in 2004. Was it technically better executed? Perhaps not, but passion and conviction are to me more important to a performance than a technical perfect execution.
    "Let me correct you on a few things. Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not “Every Man for Himself”. And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked ’em up."

  4. #364
    Trevor Howe jimmygtr's Avatar
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    Re: Why such a boring set list?

    I think Downes is a good player and his work on the Buggles, Asia, and Yes is fine and if you enjoy him more than Rick fine, but I would take Moraz, Brislin, or Wakeman myself in any version of Yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    Those arguing that Downes can't even polish Wakeman's shoes have brought up album and ticket sales, so I'm looking at album and ticket sales. I don't think sales are the be all and end all of music, no, although I think both Elton John and Billy Joel are very talented musicians. But sales tell us something, and on sales, Downes and Wakeman are in the same ballpark.

    In my original post defending Downes, I mentioned sales, but also awards and other forms of recognition. It is hard to find objective assessments -- our reactions to music are very subjective -- so I think we have to try to look at a variety of things, but also admit that there is no right or wrong answer as to who is 'better'.

    Ultimately, what matters to me is the music and there are brilliant keyboardists whose work I enjoy who have sold only tiny fractions of Wakeman or Downes, let alone John or Joel.

    Henry
    "Wait, maybe the answer's looking for you."
    "Let me correct you on a few things. Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not “Every Man for Himself”. And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked ’em up."

  5. #365
    Trevor Howe jimmygtr's Avatar
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    Re: Why such a boring set list?

    I hear you, but I'm not sure because she expected to speak means it was on the agenda and I can see if Rick took less time it could have happened ( would there still have been room for a speech she prepared? Don't know).

    But speaking of moving goalposts it seems to me that folks bashing Rick for their view of distasteful jokes has nothing to do with how much time he took. He could have took the same amount of time with no jokes or Steve could have spoken more and Bill could have spoken and they're still would have easily been a time issue. I get people wanted Scotty to have a chance to speak and I respect that, but I don't think blaming Rick is the answer and neither did the person who was arguably the victim.

    And yes, I'm pissed that the Hall didn't recognize Yes years before as I'm pissed they didn't recognize Deep Purple years before. That's where the real tragedy is in my humble opinion. Post humous awards I find very frustrating.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holland View Post
    Moving goalposts......first the argument (perhaps not by you, can't remember, but by some) was that perhaps she wasn't to speak anyway, but Scotty clearly says she was, and now we've established that we go to "he didn't mean to diss her". I don't think anyone here claims, but at least I know for sure I'm not, that he purposely dissed her. But the clock counting down was there for everyone to see, including Rick, showing how much time was left and if indeed it was planned that Scotty was going to say a few words, then while there may have been no intention on Rick's part to 'diss' her, one can't exactly say Rick, or any of the others who could have perhaps stopped him for that matter, was being very considerate of that by doing what he did.
    "Wait, maybe the answer's looking for you."
    Last edited by jimmygtr; 06-13-2018 at 10:45 PM.
    "Let me correct you on a few things. Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not “Every Man for Himself”. And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked ’em up."

  6. #366
    ˙ƃuoɹʍ ǝuoƃ ʎlɹɐǝlɔ sɐɥ ƃuᴉɥʇǝɯos relayerone's Avatar
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    Re: Why such a boring set list?

    Quote Originally Posted by pjt View Post
    What's the best criteria to distinguish between a tribute band, and a continuing band? Oh, yes, it's the lack of new material.
    That's not it at all. Scores of legacy acts are on the road right now with no new music to promote. A tribute band is generally composed of musicians who had nothing whatsoever to do with the creation of the music they play, and said musicians strive to sound as close as possible to the band they've chosen to emulate. Until Alan White clambers onto the riser right at the end of the show Steve Howe is pretty much the lone person onstage for the vast majority of material who actually had a part in creating that material. Your 'tribute band' moniker can definitely be applied here.
    It drives me nuts when people online don't know the difference between "your" and "you're".

    There so stupid.

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  7. #367
    SR Mega Yesfan Mr. Holland's Avatar
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    Re: Why such a boring set list?

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmygtr View Post
    So....did Billy play with more passion and conviction than Chris?
    In general? No. For those two particular performances: Yes. Also, in 2004 when it came to the bass solo section, Chris drew it out and made it a show moment with all his moves, winks, smiles, body language added, while Billy kept more in touch with the band as a whole, did not make the moment about himself, but kept it all about the music and the song.

    Don't get me wrong, Chris was a phenomenal bass player, one of the best that ever roamed the earth, but he also had the stage persona and at times stage ego that came along with it.
    Jon Anderson (2018 interview): "We live for one thing alone and that is to find the divine energy within you, that is connected to the divine energy that surrounds us"

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    SR Mega Yesfan Mr. Holland's Avatar
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    Re: Why such a boring set list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Enlighten View Post
    Nothing beats the studio recording of that song. It’s so well produced.
    The Steven Wilson remix of Fragile brought be back to the studio version after many years of only listening to live versions. I had forgotten how good the studio version actually is. Such clarity on all instruments and vocals, but also such a well composed and arranged song.
    Jon Anderson (2018 interview): "We live for one thing alone and that is to find the divine energy within you, that is connected to the divine energy that surrounds us"

  9. #369
    SR Super Yesfan downbyariver's Avatar
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    Re: Why such a boring set list?

    Quote Originally Posted by relayerone View Post
    That's not it at all. Scores of legacy acts are on the road right now with no new music to promote. A tribute band is generally composed of musicians who had nothing whatsoever to do with the creation of the music they play, and said musicians strive to sound as close as possible to the band they've chosen to emulate. Until Alan White clambers onto the riser right at the end of the show Steve Howe is pretty much the lone person onstage for the vast majority of material who actually had a part in creating that material. Your 'tribute band' moniker can definitely be applied here.
    Honestly. I think both of these bands are overdue for some original new material.

    The truth is, much to my own chargrin sometimes, there are no hard and fast rules for this stuff. I prefer the sports franchise model, where a band is generally a continuous line where you bring most of the players back from year to year, but inevitably some sign with other teams, get traded, or retire, and new players are brought in to join the team as vacancies arise. Eventually, after enough years pass, you realize that there is no one left on the team from the first year you started watching them, but the change has been gradual year over year, and they've always come out with the same team name wearing the same team colors and playing the games each season, and its a natural progression. Sometimes you invite retired players from a championship team to come back as special guests and wave to the fans at halftime.

    I think Yes has always been that way, ever since Steve Howe stepped in for Peter Banks. I mean, how many lineup changes did they make in the 70s alone? Yes has always been about perpetual change. No fan's "main sequence" is all the same 5 guys.

    And before anyone discounts the sports analogy because it lends a bit more implied legitimacy to the official Yes over Yes Featuring ARW (3 of 4 guys from Magnification were on Fly From Here, 4 of 5 guys from FFH were on Heaven and Earth, and if Yes made album today, they'd have 4 of the 5 guys from Heaven and Earth on it*), I should point out that Jon Anderson himself has compared Yes to a sports franchise before.

    Now, part of the analogy does involve "playing the games". Touring is part of that, but so is making new music. That's something Yes has always done. I can understand the reluctance some fans have in accepting a group of guys who do not seem to have much to do with Yes historically going out there and not giving back to the legacy with new Yes music. I feel like both of these groups are starting to let us down there, although maybe more so YesF in the sense that YesO at least has a couple albums from this decade, and everyone in the band has appeared on one or more Yes albums.

    As much as some might want to portray it as Steve and four random guys, it really isn't- Alan's been doing this for 45 years, Geoff has 3 Yes albums with the first in 1980, Billy has been involved on and off for 25 years with two albums in the 90s as an official member, plus at least 3 more where he's been somehow involved (Either in the production booth, writing, and/or as a harmony vocalist and instrumentalist), and even Juano has 1 studio album and 3 live albums to his credit (Haven't even been counting the live albums for most of these guys). Plus, this year you can add Tony Kaye (Original member, two stints with the band, and 7 albums to his credit), Trevor Horn (1 album as lead singer, 3 in the production booth), and even Pat Moraz (Relayer) to the mix as special guests on ome or more dates (Tony is doing the whole North American tour).

    Now, with Yes Featuring ARW, the continuity isn't there (No one from the most recent two albums, one guy from the album before those), and 2 of the 5 core guys have never been on a Yes album (Even counting ARW as Yes). However, I will admit having the lead singer from 17 of 20 of Yes' albums is a big deal, as is having the guy who wrote "Owner of a Lonely Heart" and played lead guitar during the MTV years, plus a very significant keyboardist from the past. In Yes circles, that's a lot of star power. I can see why some would consider them pretty legit.

    I think there are a lot of diehard fans who wish they'd both bare down and compete with new music, though. That's what Yes lineups of the past did when there was skepticism about their makeup- they put out albums of music and said "See, this is Yes music.".

    Now its all about the touring, and touring is nice, but an album you can listen to until your hearing gives out or you do- even nicer.


    * Worth pointing out that one song each from the most recent two albums has made it into the set at some tour stops on the Yes official 50th anniversary tour in North America. It seems to depend on how much time the venue allots, and one of them may be slipping out of the setlist entirely, but the band has played them both in 2018.
    Last edited by downbyariver; 06-14-2018 at 07:23 PM.
    "A lot of the heavier conversations I was having with Chris toward the end were about his desire for this thing to go forward. He kept reiterating that to me. He kept telling me, ‘No matter what happens, Yes needs to continue moving forward and make great music. So promise me that that’s something you want to do.’ And I have to keep making music. It’s just what I do. I’m a fan of the band and I want to see it thrive and that means new music." -Billy Sherwood (Quote edited to fit under character limit for sig files)

  10. #370
    Mega Insane Yesfan pjt's Avatar
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    Re: Why such a boring set list?

    Quote Originally Posted by relayerone View Post
    That's not it at all. Scores of legacy acts are on the road right now with no new music to promote. A tribute band is generally composed of musicians who had nothing whatsoever to do with the creation of the music they play, and said musicians strive to sound as close as possible to the band they've chosen to emulate. Until Alan White clambers onto the riser right at the end of the show Steve Howe is pretty much the lone person onstage for the vast majority of material who actually had a part in creating that material. Your 'tribute band' moniker can definitely be applied here.
    Would be, if they only played classic material, like YesF. But they play We Can Fly and Believe Again too, that they created and recorded.

  11. #371
    War ... just breaks the soul Bluegrunt's Avatar
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    Re: Why such a boring set list?

    Quote Originally Posted by relayerone View Post
    That's not it at all. Scores of legacy acts are on the road right now with no new music to promote. A tribute band is generally composed of musicians who had nothing whatsoever to do with the creation of the music they play, and said musicians strive to sound as close as possible to the band they've chosen to emulate. Until Alan White clambers onto the riser right at the end of the show Steve Howe is pretty much the lone person onstage for the vast majority of material who actually had a part in creating that material. Your 'tribute band' moniker can definitely be applied here.
    I’m not sure this comment is entirely consistent. You describe a tribute band as being composed of musicians who had nothing to do with the creation of the music, and then say that a band with Howe and White could be described as a tribute band?


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    Pianist/Pandemoniumist pianozach's Avatar
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    Re: Why such a boring set list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegrunt View Post
    I’m not sure this comment is entirely consistent. You describe a tribute band as being composed of musicians who had nothing to do with the creation of the music, and then say that a band with Howe and White could be described as a tribute band?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    A good deal of the setlist derives from when Bruford was in the band, yes?

    Of their 15-song set, half of them were released prior to White joining the band.

    I'm looking at the set list for June 13, 2018 at the CenturyLink Arena in Boise, and it appears that White sat out the first 11 songs, playing on Awaken before the encores.

    Then for the three encores, both White and Tony Kaye joined for YiND, Roundabout, and Starship Trooper.

    But the setlist is actually more eclectic than I expected:

    The Firebird Suite
    (Igor Stravinsky song)


    Set 1

    Close to the Edge

    Nine Voices (Longwalker)

    Parallels

    Mood for a Day

    Leaves of Green

    Fly From Here, Part I: We Can Fly

    Sweet Dreams

    Heart of the Sunrise


    Set 2

    Perpetual Change

    Does It Really Happen?

    Soon

    Awaken
    (with Alan White)


    Encore:

    Yours Is No Disgrace
    (with Tony Kaye) (and Alan White)

    Roundabout
    (with Tony Kaye) (and Alan White)

    Starship Trooper
    (with Tony Kaye) (and Alan White)
    ---Pianozach---

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    SR Mega Yesfan Mr. Holland's Avatar
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    Re: Why such a boring set list?

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmygtr View Post
    So....did Billy play with more passion and conviction than Chris?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holland View Post
    In general? No. For those two particular performances: Yes. Also, in 2004 when it came to the bass solo section, Chris drew it out and made it a show moment with all his moves, winks, smiles, body language added, while Billy kept more in touch with the band as a whole, did not make the moment about himself, but kept it all about the music and the song.

    Don't get me wrong, Chris was a phenomenal bass player, one of the best that ever roamed the earth, but he also had the stage persona and at times stage ego that came along with it.
    What I'd like to add, thinking about this, is that I found the version of AYAI at the London 2004 concert the most moving and emotional grabbing version I've ever experienced. I even talked a little with Jon about that at the HMV sigining session the following day. When I told him that, that song was so special that particular evening he looked up to me, from the table he was sitting at, and said that he had felt the special energy between band and audience as well and that he only had experienced that a couple of times before.

    Guess what I'm trying to say is that milage may vary even per gig, per song.
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  14. #374
    And the Spiders from Mars Frumious B's Avatar
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    Re: Why such a boring set list?

    What the frack? Why would you not bring out Kaye for “Sweet Dreams” and “Perpetual Change”?
    “Love is bigger than anything in its way.”-U2

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    And the Spiders from Mars Frumious B's Avatar
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    Re: Why such a boring set list?

    And it looks like they may have failed to heed Steve Perry and stopped believing again.
    “Love is bigger than anything in its way.”-U2

  16. #376
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    Re: Why such a boring set list?

    Quote Originally Posted by relayerone View Post
    A tribute band is generally composed of musicians who had nothing whatsoever to do with the creation of the music they play, and said musicians strive to sound as close as possible to the band they've chosen to emulate. Until Alan White clambers onto the riser right at the end of the show Steve Howe is pretty much the lone person onstage for the vast majority of material who actually had a part in creating that material. Your 'tribute band' moniker can definitely be applied here.
    SPOILERS for set lists!

    This is Yes's set, with the number of original performers on stage indicated:

    "Close to the Edge" = 1
    "Nine Voices" = 2
    "Parallels" = 1
    "Mood for a Day" = 1 (but it's a solo piece, so that's the maximum possible)
    "Leaves of Green" = 1
    "We Can Fly" = 2
    "Sweet Dreams" = 0
    "Heart of the Sunrise" = 1
    "Perpetual Change" = 1 (not always played)
    "Does it Really Happen?" = 2
    "Soon" = 1 or 2 (White has played on at some shows)
    "Believe Again" = 4.1 (not always played, but when played, was with White; Sherwood somewhat involved on the original)
    "Awaken" = 2
    "Yours is No Disgrace" = 2
    "Roundabout" = 1
    "Starship Trooper" = 2

    And ARW:

    "Cinema" = 1
    "Hold On" = 2
    "South Side of the Sky" = 2
    "And You and I" = 2
    "Changes" = 2
    "Perpetual Change" = 1
    "I've Seen All Good People" = 1
    "Rhythm of Love" = 2
    "I am Waiting" = 2
    "Heart of the Sunrise" = 2
    "Awaken" = 2
    "Make It Easy" intro/"Owner of a Lonely Heart"/"Sunshine of Your Love" extract = 1/2/0
    "Roundabout" = 2

    Those look pretty similar to me. Yes go from 0 to at least 4 (if "Believe Again" played), with about equal numbers of 1s and 2s. ARW go from 0 (if you count "Sunshine of Your Love") to 2, but with more 2s than 1s.

    Average for Yes (exc. "Mood for a Day") = 1.5
    Average for ARW (exc' "Make It Easy" and "Sunshine for Your Love") = 1.8

    ARW struggle because A, R and W were never together in the band, so they can never do better than 2. Yes have a similar problem in that Howe, Kaye and White were never together in the band, so their encore doesn't do better than 2. If White played a different section of the set rather than the end, their numbers would improve (to a 1.6 average).

    "A tribute band is generally composed of musicians who had nothing whatsoever to do with the creation of the music they play", so apart from when Yes play "Sweet Dreams" and ARW are riffing on "Sunshine of Your Love", both bands are clearly not tribute bands. Howe playing "Close to the Edge", Downes playing "We Can Fly", these are not tributes, as nor is Anderson singing "Heart of the Sunrise" or Rabin playing "Changes". Both bands, however, usually only have 1 or 2 of the original performers. ARW have a slight edge, but we're talking a 0.3 difference in the average. The same criticism can be levelled at both.

    Henry
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    And the Spiders from Mars Frumious B's Avatar
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    Re: Why such a boring set list?

    The main criticism I have of YesFeaturingARW boils down to the fact that they promised new music in 2016, promised it again in 2017 and here we are creeping up on the middle of 2018 and I still don’t see a preorder link on Amazon. Their set list isn’t an issue for me because I have no freaking show to attend. There was an Atlanta date literally five minutes from my house on the leaked schedule, but no date on the final schedule. I could go see YesOfficial in July, but two hours of Davison/Sherwood singing just ain’t for me.
    “Love is bigger than anything in its way.”-U2

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    And the Spiders from Mars Frumious B's Avatar
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    Re: Why such a boring set list?

    In roughly the same amount of time that YesFeaturingARW has been putting out press releases promising new music and not actually releasing anything the classic band made The Yes Album, Fragile, Close To The Edge and Tales From Topographic Oceans.
    “Love is bigger than anything in its way.”-U2

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    Polishing the mirror Enlighten's Avatar
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    Re: Why such a boring set list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holland View Post
    The Steven Wilson remix of Fragile brought be back to the studio version after many years of only listening to live versions. I had forgotten how good the studio version actually is. Such clarity on all instruments and vocals, but also such a well composed and arranged song.
    Exactly this. They were so on top of their game and were in such a fertile creative period. Combining that with Eddie Offord’s brilliant production produced musical nirvana.

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    I alone am the answer Yorkshire Square's Avatar
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    Re: Why such a boring set list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frumious B View Post
    In roughly the same amount of time that YesFeaturingARW has been putting out press releases promising new music and not actually releasing anything the classic band made The Yes Album, Fragile, Close To The Edge and Tales From Topographic Oceans.
    Let's wait and see how fast Mo Farah is doing those 5000m in 2060. Don't suppose he'll be bragging about breaking any records then mind...
    Gonna leave you all severed

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