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Thread: “ If we do another album we`ll be conscious that we have great material” GD

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    The 5th Yes Guitarist Rabin105's Avatar
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    “ If we do another album we`ll be conscious that we have great material” GD

    New interview from Geoff again states work on the new album to begin in August

    https://www.metalexpressradio.com/ge...asia-material/
    Chris Squire RIP 1948-2015 thank you for every album every song every moment... the world will truly never be the same again.
    Yes is Steve Howe Geoff Downes Jon Davison Billy Sherwood Alan White Jay Schellen and Tony Kaye and they have my support.
    GTT





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    Re: “ If we do another album we`ll be conscious that we have great material” GD

    Quote Originally Posted by Rabin105 View Post
    New interview from Geoff again states work on the new album to begin in August

    https://www.metalexpressradio.com/ge...asia-material/
    The title of your thread is a hypothetical quote. Hope is subjunctive. There is nothing definite here.

    We hope to start working on new songs later in the year. I think that we`ll approach it in a slightly different way this time as I think we didn`t really have the strength of material for an album at that point and I`m not blaming anyone for that. If we do another album we`ll be conscious that we have great material that`ll be another point in the history of Yes.

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    Re: “ If we do another album we`ll be conscious that we have great material” GD

    Quote Originally Posted by josuev80 View Post
    There is nothing definite here.

    We hope to start working on new songs later in the year. I think that we`ll approach it in a slightly different way this time as I think we didn`t really have the strength of material for an album at that point and I`m not blaming anyone for that. If we do another album we`ll be conscious that we have great material that`ll be another point in the history of Yes.
    While there is nothing definite, the intention is there to work on new material, and I have little doubt that there will be follow-through. However, the message - from Howe also - seems to be that if the material is strong there will be an album at some point, but not unless and until. The timing is also open, of course. From what is said by Geoff, we won't hear anything until 2019, I would guess. They're taking time and thinking about it all. It's a more organic and fluid approach. I have no problem with that. In fact I like it. There are no guarantees here, but I sense that if it does happen the chances of it working for Yes and for the combination of musicians they have is good.
    My book Solid Mental Grace: Listening to the Music of Yes is now available and will be launched on 25 March 2018. It is 222pp and priced at £12. It can be ordered from the publishers here. Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/solidmentalgrace/ North American orders via Amazon here. Message me if you're having any difficulty getting hold of a copy.

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    SR Super Yesfan downbyariver's Avatar
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    Re: “ If we do another album we`ll be conscious that we have great material” GD

    On Machine Messiah: "Its almost a pivotal piece that took Yes from being an esoteric band from the `70`s into a more mainstream Rock band into the `80's. Even though it`s a 10-minute piece with a lot of changes with different elements I think that was very much a turning point in Yes`s career. It showed that Yes could reinvent itself and do something different while still retaining their signature sound."

    I think this is a very astute observation. I've been saying something similar about Drama as a whole for a while now. I really feel like it was the bridge between '70s Yes and '80s Yes in terms of the way it sounds.

    A lot of times people sort of counter that it couldn't be the case because of the big lineup changes between Drama and 90125, but I don't think the lineup changes are really the full story. If you listen to the music itself, Drama was the closest thing to 90125 up to that point that Yes had released.

    Drama of course incorporated some of the 80s style in it. Even though it was barely into the 80s, 1980 on the nose, Trevor Horn and Geoff Downes were pioneers of the 80s style who had already introduced big elements of it in the 70s with the Buggles. And, of course, Steve Howe, Chris Squire, and Alan White were all being carried over from the 70s. I would say that in addition to their obvious era centric sounds, each of the two core groups represented in Drama also blended their style into the the other's territory, so to speak. Horn and Downes were very cogniscent that they were writing for Yes, which at the time meant looking back a little bit in the 70s; and Squire, Howe, and White were attempting to keep their music sounding current and forward-looking, which meant following some of the tends that would shape the 80s.

    I also think, though 90125 was Trevor Rabin's baby to a large extent, Trevor Horn's influence over that album can not be understated either. Horn was a key creator on Drama and he was a key creator and influencer of the final sound on 90125 (Horn was the lead singer on Drama and the producer on 90125, for newbies to Yes fandom). Horn talks about having plucked the "Owner of a Lonely Heart" demo from a stack or something at Rabin's home or studio while Rabin was in the bathroom, and having to first persuade Rabin, who thought he might sell the piece or include it on one of his other projects, that it was suitable for Yes, and secondly persuade the rest of the band that it was, the latter of which Horn says involved him literally crawling around on his hands and knees in a hotel room until they capitulated, among other things. It was also Horn and Rabin in the production room the final night before the album release.

    In addition, of course, Chris Squire and Alan White carried over from Drama to 90125, and I am not necessarily certain that Jon Anderson's influence was as appreciably greater on 90125 than Drama as one might assume. With Drama, of course, some demos date to the aborted Paris Sessions (With Anderson present), and the band from the beginning was clear that they were making a Yes album, a style and brand that Anderson had helped shape. With 90125, the core of the album was formed without Anderson and not intended to be Yes, with Anderson only coming in in the final weeks and adding some lyrics and his vocals with the Yes name restored.

    If someone said they loved 90125, my next recommendation would be Big Generator (The immediate followup with the same lineup in the same decade), and, after that, Drama.

    I've actually always wanted to hear Geoff Downes play on some of the 90125 and Big Generator songs and see how he'd interpret them. I also think had they not wound being drawn into opposite Yes political factions, that a lineup involving Downes and Trevor Rabin in or outside of Yes might have been an interesting thing (And, yes, I am aware that they played together for one or two songs one night in the '00s :) ).
    "A lot of the heavier conversations I was having with Chris toward the end were about his desire for this thing to go forward. He kept reiterating that to me. He kept telling me, ‘No matter what happens, Yes needs to continue moving forward and make great music. So promise me that that’s something you want to do.’ And I have to keep making music. It’s just what I do. I’m a fan of the band and I want to see it thrive and that means new music." -Billy Sherwood (Quote edited to fit under character limit for sig files)

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    Polishing the mirror Enlighten's Avatar
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    Re: “ If we do another album we`ll be conscious that we have great material” GD

    We hope to start working on new songs later in the year. I think that we`ll approach it in a slightly different way this time as I think we didn`t really have the strength of material for an album at that point and I`m not blaming anyone for that. If we do another album we`ll be conscious that we have great material that`ll be another point in the history of Yes.”

    This is an excellent interview, very honest on Geoff’s part, got to give him his due. What a breath of fresh air to hear what many of us feel about H and E coming from a member of the band. Steve has alluded to it and now Geoff, H and E was not up to Yes standard. This gives me hope for these guys. Just to know that they know it and it’s not a trend that they are happy with.


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    Re: “ If we do another album we`ll be conscious that we have great material” GD

    This is an excellent interview, very honest on Geoff’s part, got to give him his due. What a breath of fresh air to hear what many of us feel about H and E coming from a member of the band. Steve has alluded to it and now Geoff, H and E was not up to Yes standard. This gives me hope for these guys. Just to know that they know it and it’s not a trend that they are happy with.
    Yep, agree. Geoff is a good guy, and I like his attitude and approach to a new album and much else. In particular, the graciousness (contrasting with certain other Yes keyboard players) of this: "I think a lot of people see the line-up of Anderson, Wakeman, Howe, Squire and White as the classic line-up but that shouldn`t demean the contributions of the other great musicians who`ve put their stamp on the music of Yes." Indeed it shouldn't.
    My book Solid Mental Grace: Listening to the Music of Yes is now available and will be launched on 25 March 2018. It is 222pp and priced at £12. It can be ordered from the publishers here. Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/solidmentalgrace/ North American orders via Amazon here. Message me if you're having any difficulty getting hold of a copy.

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    Re: “ If we do another album we`ll be conscious that we have great material” GD

    What does that quote mean? "We'll be conscious that we have great material." What?

    I'm sorry, I have not read the article, but that statement confuses me. Is he insinuating, in any way, that they were previously not so concerned about that?...or perhaps there is a language gap here....phrasing or something I am not picking up.

    I will read article.
    Practice peace.

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    Re: “ If we do another album we`ll be conscious that we have great material” GD

    Quote Originally Posted by Mostly Harmless View Post
    What does that quote mean? "We'll be conscious that we have great material." What?

    I'm sorry, I have not read the article, but that statement confuses me. Is he insinuating, in any way, that they were previously not so concerned about that?...or perhaps there is a language gap here....phrasing or something I am not picking up.

    I will read article.
    To me it means that they know that Heaven and Earth was not up to snuff, that they didn’t have strong material and they went and made an album anyway. Good for them for being honest and hopefully recommitting to what Yes can be.

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    SR Super Yesfan downbyariver's Avatar
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    Re: “ If we do another album we`ll be conscious that we have great material” GD

    Quote Originally Posted by Rabin105 View Post
    New interview from Geoff again states work on the new album to begin in August
    A classy interview with a lot of good questions and good answers that go beyond the usual boilerplate. Still, I would liked to have seen something more definite about a new Yes and/or a new Asia album. There is no commitment made to a new Yes album there (Not that I expected one), and with Asia there is some talk of doing something in the fall, but it seems more likely to be touring dates than an album.

    It'd be nice to read something about them heading into the studio (Or a stealthily completed album and the announcement of a release date). Either of them- Yes or Asia. Ideally, both of them.

    I understand the desire to make sure an album is great and worthy of a band's name and reputation, but it's a little weird that the alternative arrangement seems to be "Tour till we drop".

    If they have stuff that they like but that they need to improve, why not block out some time together as a band to improve it? If they need new stuff because the other stuff can't be brought up to par or not enough of it can be brought up to par to constitute an album, have they asked Billy Sherwood what he would do or what he can develop (For either band)? I know Steve Howe at one point said he assumes Sherwood has or could have a bunch of stuff for Yes if asked, but it sounded as though Howe hadn't asked, let alone listened to the material at that point, and the early rumors on a potential album don't mention his name (Which, I suppose, is fine if they have enough and don't need more, but if they are concerned that they don't have enough or that it's of a low quality, why not turn Billy loose and let him write the rest of it and present it to them?).

    There's also the possibility of bringing in outside writers as collaborators or buying songs from them. There are probably plenty of people who would love to write for Yes, and even a few who are likely capable of it! Remember, Trevor Horn and Geoff Downes first became involved with Yes because they were presenting a song or two they wanted to sell to the band. There are certainly some places they could draw on today with all these third and fourth wave prog rockers who idolize Yes and would be happy to write and sell on commission, or present and offer for a purchase, a Yes piece or two for the existing band to record and perhaps modify a bit for a new album. And of course Asia purchased a couple of pieces from an outside writer named Billy Sherwood for Silent Nation.

    I feel like when bands really want to get this stuff done, they do.

    In the meantime, I was happy to hear that Sherwood is laying down drum tracks for Citizen 2. Sherwood's various projects have gotten me through a lot of very lean release years from the 20th century rock bands I like.
    Last edited by downbyariver; 03-07-2018 at 07:24 PM.
    "A lot of the heavier conversations I was having with Chris toward the end were about his desire for this thing to go forward. He kept reiterating that to me. He kept telling me, ‘No matter what happens, Yes needs to continue moving forward and make great music. So promise me that that’s something you want to do.’ And I have to keep making music. It’s just what I do. I’m a fan of the band and I want to see it thrive and that means new music." -Billy Sherwood (Quote edited to fit under character limit for sig files)

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    Fishing Yesfan Mostly Harmless's Avatar
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    Re: “ If we do another album we`ll be conscious that we have great material” GD

    Quote Originally Posted by Enlighten View Post
    We hope to start working on new songs later in the year. I think that we`ll approach it in a slightly different way this time as I think we didn`t really have the strength of material for an album at that point and I`m not blaming anyone for that. If we do another album we`ll be conscious that we have great material that`ll be another point in the history of Yes.”

    This is an excellent interview, very honest on Geoff’s part, got to give him his due. What a breath of fresh air to hear what many of us feel about H and E coming from a member of the band. Steve has alluded to it and now Geoff, H and E was not up to Yes standard. This gives me hope for these guys. Just to know that they know it and it’s not a trend that they are happy with.

    I have to agree with you here. I am happy to hear someone in the band openly express the same view that I have for that material. It gives me hope too.
    Practice peace.

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    Re: “ If we do another album we`ll be conscious that we have great material” GD

    Quote Originally Posted by simonbarrow View Post
    Yep, agree. Geoff is a good guy, and I like his attitude and approach to a new album and much else. In particular, the graciousness (contrasting with certain other Yes keyboard players) of this: "I think a lot of people see the line-up of Anderson, Wakeman, Howe, Squire and White as the classic line-up but that shouldn`t demean the contributions of the other great musicians who`ve put their stamp on the music of Yes." Indeed it shouldn't.
    He’s an interesting person Simon, he can mix it up with the best of the them, get down in the dirt and slug it out but then he has this more magnanimous side that comes out at times too. I’m just thrilled to hear that H and E part II is not what they’re going for this time around and that care is being taken to develop strong Yes material.

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    Re: “ If we do another album we`ll be conscious that we have great material” GD

    I have seen so many posthumous releases (like Jimi) that being conscious is a virtue in my mind...
    If I don't really exist then at over 10,700 posts my nothingness has longevity, if not serious mojo.

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    Re: “ If we do another album we`ll be conscious that we have great material” GD

    I still like Heaven & Earth, by golly!

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    Re: “ If we do another album we`ll be conscious that we have great material” GD

    Quote Originally Posted by simonbarrow View Post
    While there is nothing definite, the intention is there to work on new material, and I have little doubt that there will be follow-through. However, the message - from Howe also - seems to be that if the material is strong there will be an album at some point, but not unless and until. The timing is also open, of course. From what is said by Geoff, we won't hear anything until 2019, I would guess. They're taking time and thinking about it all. It's a more organic and fluid approach. I have no problem with that. In fact I like it. There are no guarantees here, but I sense that if it does happen the chances of it working for Yes and for the combination of musicians they have is good.
    You are saving me a lot of trouble posting on some threads lately, sir! Well spoken.
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    Re: “ If we do another album we`ll be conscious that we have great material” GD

    Quote Originally Posted by Davey1727 View Post
    I still like Heaven & Earth, by golly!
    Well....you just have to be stoned then.... as me, because I still like the better part of it as well.
    Jon Anderson (2018 interview): "We live for one thing alone and that is to find the divine energy within you, that is connected to the divine energy that surrounds us"

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    Re: “ If we do another album we`ll be conscious that we have great material” GD

    Quote Originally Posted by Enlighten View Post
    He’s an interesting person Simon, he can mix it up with the best of the them, get down in the dirt and slug it out but then he has this more magnanimous side that comes out at times too. I’m just thrilled to hear that H and E part II is not what they’re going for this time around and that care is being taken to develop strong Yes material.
    So what will we get? Don't Go part II, Soft as a Dove part II, The Man You Always Wanted Me to Be part II, No Way We Can Lose part II, Walls part II, Saving My Heart part II (oh well, No Way We Can Lose was actually Saving My Heart part II ) ?? So much to chose from
    Jon Anderson (2018 interview): "We live for one thing alone and that is to find the divine energy within you, that is connected to the divine energy that surrounds us"

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    SR Super Yesfan downbyariver's Avatar
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    Re: “ If we do another album we`ll be conscious that we have great material” GD

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holland View Post
    So what will we get? Don't Go part II, Soft as a Dove part II, The Man You Always Wanted Me to Be part II, No Way We Can Lose part II, Walls part II, Saving My Heart part II (oh well, No Way We Can Lose was actually Saving My Heart part II ) ?? So much to chose from
    All of the albums those songs were on had other songs people enjoyed, though- "In the Presence Of", "We Can Fly" (I think "Hour of Need" would go over well with live crowds if they tried it- don't see many people knocking it here), "From the Balcony", "Endless Dream", "Masquerade" (Maybe "The More You Live"? Some people started pushing for them to do it when Billy first rejoined the band). There. Those songs all seem popular on YesFans.

    Plus, those other songs most people don't like? All of them are somebody's favorite. Of the songs you mentioned, I particularly thought "Walls" was pretty good. You know the much malighed "Man in the Moon"? You may recall that we had (Maybe still have) a poster here who totally non-ironically made that song his screen name and made some positive posts about it, and was shocked to find that it was made fun of so much online (And, truthfully, I don't hate it either, though it isn't one of my top 50 Yes songs).

    That's part of why I am wary of this type of perfecionism taken to such an extreme that no one puts albums out. Every album Yes has made has songs some people like. I'm not saying they should just slap something together, but if they wait until they think they have Close to the Edge, they may never release another album and in doing so deprive themselves of a chance to showcase their creativity, and their fans of a chance to hear their next favorite songs. Plus, imagine they work something up to the point where they really do think its the next Close to the Edge and it fails critically, with fans, and sales wise? I'm pretty sure that would be the last album they'd make unless Billy gets control with a very different lineup eventually, because they'd be convinced that their best wasn't good enough anymore or wouldn't be well received (I remember Jon Anderson citing the low sales of Magnification, an album he thought was excellent, but that didn't sell well, as a reason not to do more).

    When they made Close to the Edge, did they know they had Close to the Edge? I'll bet some of their best regarded albums were things they weren't 100% sure of when they first entered the studio.

    And sometimes the best song on the album is the one that they almost didn't include and decided to reluctantly go with at the last minute.

    I think they've got a good ideal of what didn't work on Heaven and Earth, so make corrections and do it differently the next time. I'm sure they'll make other mistakes if they do, but that's life. They can correct them on the album after the next one.

    Plus, sometimes albums initially poorly received are better received with time. Drama is beloved now- no one would have predicted that in 1981. They toured around the world playing all six songs from it in a row just recently! It got rave reviews. Then they put the same six songs on a live album as a co-centerpiece with Tales, called it Topographic Drama, and it was great, too!

    As an aside, some of the above is also a good reason to do an LP instead of an EP. That won't be an issue with YesOfficial- I think its album or nothing with Steve and the boys. But ARW is now saying they're going to do an EP because it leaves off their lesser songs and just puts forward the ones they are most confident in. I think it maybe someone might want to remind A and R that they were set to exclude "Owner of a Lonely Heart" from 90125 until the very last minute when Trevor Horn really put the full court press on.
    "A lot of the heavier conversations I was having with Chris toward the end were about his desire for this thing to go forward. He kept reiterating that to me. He kept telling me, ‘No matter what happens, Yes needs to continue moving forward and make great music. So promise me that that’s something you want to do.’ And I have to keep making music. It’s just what I do. I’m a fan of the band and I want to see it thrive and that means new music." -Billy Sherwood (Quote edited to fit under character limit for sig files)

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    SR Super Yesfan downbyariver's Avatar
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    Re: “ If we do another album we`ll be conscious that we have great material” GD

    Quote Originally Posted by Mostly Harmless View Post
    I have to agree with you here. I am happy to hear someone in the band openly express the same view that I have for that material. It gives me hope too.
    Steve Howe said something similar, and I agree- to a point. Heaven and Earth was not one of their better albums. However, I honestly do really like 2 songs, and then there are 3 or 4 others that sound like at least half a good song each. So, it wasn't crap. And it gave the group a chance to sort of regroup as a unit and get their feet wet again, in a sense for the first time ever without a strong central presence like Jon Anderson or Trevor Horn dictating things, and certainly it was Juano's first Yes album.

    So, do the next one with a different approach- uptempo drumming loud and upfront (Maybe use two drummers), harder rock with some Drama or Asia type guitar riffs, some proggier stuff where guys sort of do WURM type of things as bridges that build to frantic paces and then ease back down, a different producer, etc.. Maybe they all go into the studio with not only what they've prepared, but also have backup songs, and a week reserved for just riffing as a group and recording it to see if there is anything they or their producer want to splice together into addditional songs or add into existing pre-planned songs. Weren't some 70s Yes album partly or primarily parts the band riffed and recorded that were put together after the fact into songs? Schedule more time in the studio, maybe a less expensive studio that allows them more time for the same cost.

    Just the new upfront harmony duo and rythm sections should automatically make it at least a little different.

    I don't think the lesson of Heaven and Earth is that 3 year was too short, let's take 6. That doesn't make sense to me. Its more about the approach and what you do with the time.

    A new album also gives them a chance to see what this lineup, which is not the Heaven and Earth lineup, sounds like. I think sometimes you don't know how something really did or how good it really was or wasn't until you've got distance from it- its not always something you can fix in editing. But what you can do is get back on the horse and make the next one as soon as possible with changes made to adjust for what wasn't optimal the first time.

    One thing I think they are forgetting is that they walked into Baker's recording studio with an album of completed before the fact songs to basically record and get out of there with. The early indications are that they are spending a lot of time preworking the material again. I realize that they've got to go in there with some idea of what they are going to do, but there's such a thing as being overprepared.
    "A lot of the heavier conversations I was having with Chris toward the end were about his desire for this thing to go forward. He kept reiterating that to me. He kept telling me, ‘No matter what happens, Yes needs to continue moving forward and make great music. So promise me that that’s something you want to do.’ And I have to keep making music. It’s just what I do. I’m a fan of the band and I want to see it thrive and that means new music." -Billy Sherwood (Quote edited to fit under character limit for sig files)

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    Re: “ If we do another album we`ll be conscious that we have great material” GD

    I suppose the optimists among us, like me, hang on to the august date and the pessimists point to the “Big If”.

    And as for Downes admitting H&E was not good, fine, I agree, but then again Yes have repeatedly expressed their dissatisfaction with Tormato, which IMO is as much part of the Great Run in the 70s as the albums before it...

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    Re: “ If we do another album we`ll be conscious that we have great material” GD

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holland View Post
    So what will we get? Don't Go part II, Soft as a Dove part II, The Man You Always Wanted Me to Be part II, No Way We Can Lose part II, Walls part II, Saving My Heart part II (oh well, No Way We Can Lose was actually Saving My Heart part II ) ?? So much to chose from

    Yup, they’ve pitched some real stinkers haven’t they? As I’ve said many times, Yes never quite got over the fishing for hit singles disease that 90125 infected them with. To my ears, H and E is a stinker from start to finish, just a really weak, flaccid attempt at a Yes album. To hear from two of the principals (Howe and Downes) that they feel it wasn’t a strong effort is somewhat of an inner validation to me as a fan and listener. I’m not suggesting that people shouldn’t like it because I don’t, people like what they like, it’s a completely subjective thing. But when two of the members of the band aren’t really sold on the final product, it gives me hope for something better in the future.

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