Google
 


Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 138

Thread: This should have stopped long ago

  1. #1
    New to the site
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    7
    Rep Power
    0

    This should have stopped long ago

    Ive been an avid fan since the early 70's. They made magic, not music. After Awaken, it was just music. Shall we now bid Farewell? Yes, they did. They pulled some rabbits (Rabbit, get it?") out of hats and a resurgence saw them back in the charts. But the charts were never the aim. Now the die-hards are circling wagons against any onslaught on the memories of their beloved youth and losing sight completely of why we use definitions like "classic line-up"... yet I see praise heaped on Topographic Drama (the words, the band has never sounded better) as though the PR company have guns held to their heads. I'll tell you when they sounded better. Always! JD has no unique tone. His voice is bland. Steve fumbles through CTTE like a beginner who isn't sure what's happening next. Geoff Downes on TRSOG can't even duplicate two harmony lines on two Moogs. Billy Sherwood may have the notes in their proper sequence, but so what? He's so far in the background all sense of Chris' majestic creations are lost. At least Allen has thrown in the towel and brought in help. Which leads me to a conclusion that Yes fans don't like. Yes music will not last until the sun engulfs the Earth in a few billion years. Observe the case of Paul McCartney. He was a Beatle!! Wow wow wow! He was in Wings. Wow. He's an old guy who entire generations know nothing about. If that can happen to a Beatle, what chance Yes?
    Last edited by Pragmatic Heretic; 1 Week Ago at 06:13 AM.





  2. #2
    Polishing the mirror Enlighten's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Age
    52
    Posts
    4,385
    Rep Power
    107374613

    Re: This should have stopped long ago

    Guns blazing on your first post, I kinda like it. You’ll get some blow back from some here but I can’t argue with a lot of what you’re saying.

    Where we may differ relates to form. Timeless music transcends form. Paul McCartney is in the form of a man who is a musician who at one point created some timeless music with some other musicians, two of whom no longer occupy human form. Timeless music transcends the forms that created it. Yes created some timeless music at one point in their careers. Wherever there are seekers of transcendent music in the present and the future, transcendent Yes music has a place, that music doesn’t die.
    Last edited by Enlighten; 1 Week Ago at 12:56 AM.

  3. #3
    "I woke to the sound of drums..." SunshipVoyager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    The Place Where It Is Always Sunny, USA
    Posts
    1,164
    Rep Power
    107374371

    Re: This should have stopped long ago

    I don't agree with everything you say here (I personally think some pretty high quality material came out after 1977), however the basic spirit of what you say I sadly have to agree with. Yes getting back together to make the occasional new album when they felt inspired to do so, or doing anniversary tours for fun I have no issue with; but money issues, mis-management and record company B.S. have historically sullied a marvelous legacy. I just treasure the music and allow others who enjoy what they enjoy to do the same and leave it there.
    "He who binds to himself a joy doth the winged life destroy. But he who kisses the joy as it flies lives in Eternity's sunrise..." - William Blake

  4. #4
    SR Mega Yesfan Mr. Holland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Hoofddorp, the Netherlands
    Age
    44
    Posts
    24,982
    Rep Power
    107375712

    Re: This should have stopped long ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatic Heretic View Post
    Ive been an avid fan since the early 70's. They made magic, not music. After Awaken, it was just music. Shall be now bid Farewell? Yes, they did. They pulled some rabbits (Rabbit, get it?") out of hats and a resurgence saw them back in the charts. But the charts were never the aim. Now the die-hards are circling wagons against any onslaught on the memories of their beloved youth and losing sight completely of why we use definitions like "classic line-up"... yet I see praise heaped on Topographic Drama (the words, the band has never sounded better) as though the PR company have guns held to their heads. I'll tell you when they sounded better. Always! JD has no unique tone. His voice is bland. Steve fumbles through CTTE like a beginner who isn't sure what's happening next. Geoff Downes on TRSOG can't even duplicate to harmony lines on two Moogs. Billy Sherwood may have the notes in their proper sequence, but so what? He's so far in the background all sense of Chris' majestic creations are lost. At least Allen has thrown in the towel and brought in help. Which leads me to a conclusion that Yes fans don't like. Yes music will not last until the sun engulfs the Earth in a few billion years. Observe the case of Paul McCartney. He was a Beatle!! Wow wow wow! He was in Wings. Wow. He's an old guy who entire generations know nothing about. If that can happen to a Beatle, what chance Yes?
    Wow, you surely didn't take any prisoners there.

    Here's the deal for me: I actually, really, genuinly love a lot of the music created after the 70s, to me it is magic. I've posted it on this site before, but my 10 favourite Yes albums are these:

    01) Close to the Edge
    02) Relayer
    03) The Yes Album
    04) Fragile
    05) Talk
    06) Drama
    07) Going for the One
    08) Big Generator
    09) 90125
    10) Tales From Topographic Oceans

    I have seen other fans here who put albums like Magnification or Fly From Here in their top 10. The Yes universe is diverse and not all fans see and feel the music/magic the way you do.

    And personally I couldn't give a rats arse whether Yes music will or will not last until the sun engulfs the Earth in a few billion years. That has never been my aim as a fan. I've been enjoying Yesmusicmagic from when I was 12 onwards and continue to do so, I live in the here and now and enjoy both Yes bands that are now, in the here and now. So your conclusion, and that is all it is, is something that really plays no role at all for me.

    I'm sorry that you can't enjoy Yes after the 70s and in the here and now, but guess what? No one's forcing your hand there and you always have the magic of the 70s to listen to on a various live and studio albums!
    ReAwaken (after the Bethlehem Sands concert 2016):
    Sometimes in music, the songs can transcend the band members themselves - I think Yes is such a band.

  5. #5
    Yesfan nzyesfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Age
    58
    Posts
    1,675
    Rep Power
    107374565

    Re: This should have stopped long ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatic Heretic View Post
    Ive been an avid fan since the early 70's. They made magic, not music. After Awaken, it was just music. Shall be now bid Farewell? Yes, they did. They pulled some rabbits (Rabbit, get it?") out of hats and a resurgence saw them back in the charts. But the charts were never the aim. Now the die-hards are circling wagons against any onslaught on the memories of their beloved youth and losing sight completely of why we use definitions like "classic line-up"... yet I see praise heaped on Topographic Drama (the words, the band has never sounded better) as though the PR company have guns held to their heads. I'll tell you when they sounded better. Always! JD has no unique tone. His voice is bland. Steve fumbles through CTTE like a beginner who isn't sure what's happening next. Geoff Downes on TRSOG can't even duplicate to harmony lines on two Moogs. Billy Sherwood may have the notes in their proper sequence, but so what? He's so far in the background all sense of Chris' majestic creations are lost. At least Allen has thrown in the towel and brought in help. Which leads me to a conclusion that Yes fans don't like. Yes music will not last until the sun engulfs the Earth in a few billion years. Observe the case of Paul McCartney. He was a Beatle!! Wow wow wow! He was in Wings. Wow. He's an old guy who entire generations know nothing about. If that can happen to a Beatle, what chance Yes?
    You're talking pish. Yes has added many great contributions to the catalogue throughout the 80's, 90's, 00's and beyond. They've also played many incredible shows all around the world and have a legion of fans that continue to appreciate their creative/artistic and performance endeavours. That you covet a lineup that only existed in the 70's is more revealing of your lack of ability to move with the times than it is any fault of theirs.
    -----
    paul
    -----

  6. #6
    Insane Yesfan Don the Cap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    1,561
    Rep Power
    107374285

    Re: This should have stopped long ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatic Heretic View Post
    Ive been an avid fan since the early 70's. They made magic, not music. After Awaken, it was just music. Shall be now bid Farewell? Yes, they did. They pulled some rabbits (Rabbit, get it?") out of hats and a resurgence saw them back in the charts. But the charts were never the aim. Now the die-hards are circling wagons against any onslaught on the memories of their beloved youth and losing sight completely of why we use definitions like "classic line-up"... yet I see praise heaped on Topographic Drama (the words, the band has never sounded better) as though the PR company have guns held to their heads. I'll tell you when they sounded better. Always! JD has no unique tone. His voice is bland. Steve fumbles through CTTE like a beginner who isn't sure what's happening next. Geoff Downes on TRSOG can't even duplicate to harmony lines on two Moogs. Billy Sherwood may have the notes in their proper sequence, but so what? He's so far in the background all sense of Chris' majestic creations are lost. At least Allen has thrown in the towel and brought in help. Which leads me to a conclusion that Yes fans don't like. Yes music will not last until the sun engulfs the Earth in a few billion years. Observe the case of Paul McCartney. He was a Beatle!! Wow wow wow! He was in Wings. Wow. He's an old guy who entire generations know nothing about. If that can happen to a Beatle, what chance Yes?
    You'll draw a lot of unfriendly fire from the usual devotees, and you'll no doubt be subjected to the usual lists of favourites from them, accompanied by much harrumphing, but I broadly agree with you. Having said that, there is Yesmusic I enjoy, and enjoy a lot, post-c.1977, but who needs another list or one of those infernal tablets-of-stone rankings? But is any of that really on the same creative level as any of the magic from the Main Sequence? No, it is not.
    Getting over all the time I had to worry.....

  7. #7
    New to the site
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    7
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: This should have stopped long ago

    Quote Originally Posted by nzyesfan View Post
    You're talking pish. Yes has added many great contributions to the catalogue throughout the 80's, 90's, 00's and beyond. They've also played many incredible shows all around the world and have a legion of fans that continue to appreciate their creative/artistic and performance endeavours. That you covet a lineup that only existed in the 70's is more revealing of your lack of ability to move with the times than it is any fault of theirs.
    You live in a bubble of self deception. Number of shows? Legions of fans? So what?? If you are unaware of the synergy of creativity that happened during 1972 then it is you, not I who could use a lesson in the history of the band. In fact you insult Anderson, Squire, Howe, Wakeman and Bruford to say that other lineups were as influential as the former.

  8. #8
    New to the site
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    7
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: This should have stopped long ago

    Everything dies. Everything is lost and forgotten. Nothing is eternal.

  9. #9
    Insane Yesfan Don the Cap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    1,561
    Rep Power
    107374285

    Re: This should have stopped long ago

    Quote Originally Posted by nzyesfan View Post
    You're talking pish. Yes has added many great contributions to the catalogue throughout the 80's, 90's, 00's and beyond. They've also played many incredible shows all around the world and have a legion of fans that continue to appreciate their creative/artistic and performance endeavours. That you covet a lineup that only existed in the 70's is more revealing of your lack of ability to move with the times than it is any fault of theirs.
    Usual crappy belligerence, as predictable as birthdays.
    Getting over all the time I had to worry.....

  10. #10
    Insane Yesfan ragtime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,635
    Rep Power
    107374386

    Re: This should have stopped long ago

    Most artists, whether solo or bands, achieve only a relatively brief blossoming at their absolute peak. A few even manage more than one peak. No one stays at the very top of their game for ever. That doesn't make the rest of their output worthless. Many fine bands have perhaps two or three albums that stand out as capturing their particular chemistry at its most potent and intoxicating. Yes had a run of six or seven plus quite a number of excellent outliers to the 'main sequence'. Are they (both divided branches of the Yes family tree) on their final lap? Probably. Will they match their finest hours again? Probably not. Does that make them not worth listening to? I don't see why it should and many people still get pleasure from doing so. Can they still produce music of depth and lasting significance? I don't see why not. Let's wait and see.
    Universe University

  11. #11
    Yesfan nzyesfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Age
    58
    Posts
    1,675
    Rep Power
    107374565

    Re: This should have stopped long ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatic Heretic View Post
    You live in a bubble of self deception. Number of shows? Legions of fans? So what?? If you are unaware of the synergy of creativity that happened during 1972 then it is you, not I who could use a lesson in the history of the band. In fact you insult Anderson, Squire, Howe, Wakeman and Bruford to say that other lineups were as influential as the former.
    I didn't say other lineups were as influential as the former.

    And yes, the fragile five were a very strong lineup. They wern't the only one. Personally I prefer the lineup that recorded 'Relayer'. That album and 'Yessongs' would be my top two Yes albums. But that dosn't stop me appreciating other highlights in the back catalogue like 'Drama', '90125', 'Talk', 'Keystudio', 'Magnification', 'Fly from here' and 5/8's of 'Heaven and Earth' . All of which I appreciate for the material AND the time in which they were released.
    -----
    paul
    -----

  12. #12
    New to the site
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    7
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: This should have stopped long ago

    Crappy belligerence? I thank you for you constructive contribution to the debate. I guess when you find yourself trying to defence the indefensible, insults work just as nicely. You have learnt well from Trump.
    I stated my points clearly, with explanation. These are my views. I am entitled to them. You are free to counter my arguments based on observations, Logic and reason. But you said nothing.

  13. #13
    The said Remark Ceasar's Palace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    the Netherlands
    Age
    51
    Posts
    4,342
    Rep Power
    107374563

    Re: This should have stopped long ago

    Quote Originally Posted by ragtime View Post
    Most artists, whether solo or bands, achieve only a relatively brief blossoming at their absolute peak. A few even manage more than one peak. No one stays at the very top of their game for ever. That doesn't make the rest of their output worthless. Many fine bands have perhaps two or three albums that stand out as capturing their particular chemistry at its most potent and intoxicating. Yes had a run of six or seven plus quite a number of excellent outliers to the 'main sequence'. Are they (both divided branches of the Yes family tree) on their final lap? Probably. Will they match their finest hours again? Probably not. Does that make them not worth listening to? I don't see why it should and many people still get pleasure from doing so. Can they still produce music of depth and lasting significance? I don't see why not. Let's wait and see.
    That’s about it. I’d just like to add that while they didn’t start out as a hit band, later attempts to be that do not disqualify their output, their entire output. Where does this obsession with popularity come from? It seems either to be the only thing important or something to be avoided at all cost. As if there is no middle ground...

    As for the present day situation, I don’t expect there will be new albums after the ones we’ll have next year.
    And that would be fine with me, as I expect them to be quite good, and that’s a nice way to bow out.
    Should they go on however, I won’t boycot them but continue to pick out and focus on the good bits as
    I have done for many years.
    Last edited by Ceasar's Palace; 1 Week Ago at 06:00 AM.

  14. #14
    Polishing the mirror Enlighten's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Age
    52
    Posts
    4,385
    Rep Power
    107374613

    Re: This should have stopped long ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatic Heretic View Post
    Everything dies. Everything is lost and forgotten. Nothing is eternal.
    All forms dissolve so that new forms can arise but you’re missing a big part of the equation, which is the animating consciousness that inhabits any form. You can’t destroy consciousness, you can’t destroy love and to try to put both in a box of physical reality experience is seeking to limit something which has its origins in something that was never physical in the first place.

  15. #15
    New to the site
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    7
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: This should have stopped long ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Enlighten View Post
    Guns blazing on your first post, I kinda like it. You’ll get some blow back from some here but I can’t argue with a lot of what you’re saying.

    Where we may differ relates to form. Timeless music transcends form. Paul McCartney is in the form of a man who is a musician who at one point created some timeless music with some other musicians, two of whom no longer occupy human form. Timeless music transcends the forms that created it. Yes created some timeless music at one point in their careers. Wherever there are seekers of transcendent music in the present and the future, transcendent Yes music has a place, that music doesn’t die.

    Are you saying that Yesterday will be long forgotten before Side 3 of TFTO?

  16. #16
    Polishing the mirror Enlighten's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Age
    52
    Posts
    4,385
    Rep Power
    107374613

    Re: This should have stopped long ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatic Heretic View Post
    Are you saying that Yesterday will be long forgotten before Side 3 of TFTO?
    Your either/or, black and white positions sound just as religious as those who belong to the drinking the koolaid religion, just the polarity. It’s interesting because the heretic rails against what he/she feels is dogmatic in a particular view but maybe fails to see the dogma of their own views being reflected back to them. There’s nothing particularly pragmatic about that, it’s a mind game.

  17. #17
    And the Spiders from Mars Frumious B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Smyrna, GA
    Age
    46
    Posts
    8,518
    Rep Power
    107374861

    Re: This should have stopped long ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatic Heretic View Post
    Ive been an avid fan since the early 70's. They made magic, not music. After Awaken, it was just music. Shall we now bid Farewell? Yes, they did. They pulled some rabbits (Rabbit, get it?") out of hats and a resurgence saw them back in the charts. But the charts were never the aim. Now the die-hards are circling wagons against any onslaught on the memories of their beloved youth and losing sight completely of why we use definitions like "classic line-up"... yet I see praise heaped on Topographic Drama (the words, the band has never sounded better) as though the PR company have guns held to their heads. I'll tell you when they sounded better. Always! JD has no unique tone. His voice is bland. Steve fumbles through CTTE like a beginner who isn't sure what's happening next. Geoff Downes on TRSOG can't even duplicate two harmony lines on two Moogs. Billy Sherwood may have the notes in their proper sequence, but so what? He's so far in the background all sense of Chris' majestic creations are lost. At least Allen has thrown in the towel and brought in help. Which leads me to a conclusion that Yes fans don't like. Yes music will not last until the sun engulfs the Earth in a few billion years. Observe the case of Paul McCartney. He was a Beatle!! Wow wow wow! He was in Wings. Wow. He's an old guy who entire generations know nothing about. If that can happen to a Beatle, what chance Yes?
    Shrug...I have a preschooler who LOVES to watch Yellow Submarine and especially LOVES the music. I agree with some of your points, especially about the current singer and you aren’t gonna catch me heaping praise on Topographic Drama. However, I’d like to balance that out with a couple of things. While a lot of the 70s music provides a pure, borderline otherworldly musical experience you just can’t get anywhere else, the only Yes albums I actually think are outright bad records are Union, Open Your Eyes and Heaven & Earth. I basically like all the others and would rather have them than not have them. I think Steve Howe still sounds damned good. I’m not gonna criticize old guys for getting old. I hope to BE an old guy some day.

    I don’t care if Yes music lives forever. Why should I? I’m not gonna live forever either.
    “Love is bigger than anything in its way.”-U2

  18. #18
    New to the site
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    7
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: This should have stopped long ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Enlighten View Post
    All forms dissolve so that new forms can arise but you’re missing a big part of the equation, which is the animating consciousness that inhabits any form. You can’t destroy consciousness, you can’t destroy love and to try to put both in a box of physical reality experience is seeking to limit something which has its origins in something that was never physical in the first place.
    Oh god, this is like every time I end up to talking to JA too long.

  19. #19
    YES and YES , two YES's from me
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,397
    Rep Power
    107374343

    Re: This should have stopped long ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatic Heretic View Post
    Ive been an avid fan since the early 70's. They made magic, not music. After Awaken, it was just music. Shall we now bid Farewell? Yes, they did. They pulled some rabbits (Rabbit, get it?") out of hats and a resurgence saw them back in the charts. But the charts were never the aim. Now the die-hards are circling wagons against any onslaught on the memories of their beloved youth and losing sight completely of why we use definitions like "classic line-up"... yet I see praise heaped on Topographic Drama (the words, the band has never sounded better) as though the PR company have guns held to their heads. I'll tell you when they sounded better. Always! JD has no unique tone. His voice is bland. Steve fumbles through CTTE like a beginner who isn't sure what's happening next. Geoff Downes on TRSOG can't even duplicate two harmony lines on two Moogs. Billy Sherwood may have the notes in their proper sequence, but so what? He's so far in the background all sense of Chris' majestic creations are lost. At least Allen has thrown in the towel and brought in help. Which leads me to a conclusion that Yes fans don't like. Yes music will not last until the sun engulfs the Earth in a few billion years. Observe the case of Paul McCartney. He was a Beatle!! Wow wow wow! He was in Wings. Wow. He's an old guy who entire generations know nothing about. If that can happen to a Beatle, what chance Yes?
    Well welcome to YF
    What would you rather prefer ?
    Both current bands are doing great
    But you clearly dont like YES O in 2017 , would you say this to their faces ?
    I would prefer constructive criticism
    I have paid money to go and see both and have met many of them .
    Have you ?
    YES music is majestic and i enjoy the past , but please dont still live in it
    Whilst there is still time why not embrace what we have got now and be postive
    That is a good starting point here
    There are not many bands like YES left
    Embrace it

  20. #20
    Polishing the mirror Enlighten's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Age
    52
    Posts
    4,385
    Rep Power
    107374613

    Re: This should have stopped long ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatic Heretic View Post
    Oh god, this is like every time I end up to talking to JA too long.
    That’s all you got? Putting things into little boxes that don’t square with your perception and making erroneous comparisons so you don’t have to go outside your comfort zone. It can all be made very scientific, would that make you feel better?

Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •