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Thread: More numbers to have a silly argument over

  1. #1
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    More numbers to have a silly argument over

    There are, if my calculations are correct, 160 Yes songs released regularly on normal albums (so excluding "Show Me", "Montreux's Theme" etc., but I am including ABWH).

    We can look at the songwriting credits for each song and assign it into one of three categories: it has more songwriters in Yes ft Anderson Rabin Wakeman, it has more songwriters in Yes (+ Tony Kaye), or it's a tie.

    There are 35 songs were it's a tie, including various covers ("Every Little Thing"), Squire songs ("Parallels") or songs with Anderson/Howe balancing each other out ("Roundabout", "And You and I", "Shock to the System").

    There are 62 songs each in the other categories: they exactly balance. There are 62 songs where ARW win: lots of Anderson-penned songs ("Long Distance Runaround", "Wonderous Stories"), lots of Anderson/Squire ("The Prophet", "On the Silent Wings of Freedom"), lots of Anderson/Rabin/+ songs (including all of Talk), most of ABWH (Anderson + Wakeman beat Howe, except Downes' credit on "Brother of Mine" makes that one a tie). There are 62 songs where Yes win: all of Relayer (Howe + White beat Anderson), all of Drama, Open Your Eyes, The Ladder, Magnification and Heaven & Earth, Howe solos ("Clap") and scattered others (including "Yours is No Disgrace", "Foot Prints", "Turn of the Century", "Cinema").

    This is, of course, silly. It gives equal weight to "Close to the Edge" and "5% for Nothing", to "Heart of the Sunrise" and "Man in the Moon". It ignores that the songwriting credits are often wrong or don't show the relative contributions. But, there you go, have at it.

    Henry
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  2. #2
    Mega Yesfan Susanne's Avatar
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    Re: More numbers to have a silly argument over

    I think it's nice that they came out equal!
    But the ultimate winner will be whichever band has shorter (and therefore more) songs on their new album?

  3. #3
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    Re: More numbers to have a silly argument over

    Jeff Tiberius Grey Wolf
    DON'T PANIC!


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    Re: More numbers to have a silly argument over

    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    There are, if my calculations are correct, 160 Yes songs released regularly on normal albums (so excluding "Show Me", "Montreux's Theme" etc., but I am including ABWH).

    We can look at the songwriting credits for each song and assign it into one of three categories: it has more songwriters in Yes ft Anderson Rabin Wakeman, it has more songwriters in Yes (+ Tony Kaye), or it's a tie.

    There are 35 songs were it's a tie, including various covers ("Every Little Thing"), Squire songs ("Parallels") or songs with Anderson/Howe balancing each other out ("Roundabout", "And You and I", "Shock to the System").

    There are 62 songs each in the other categories: they exactly balance. There are 62 songs where ARW win: lots of Anderson-penned songs ("Long Distance Runaround", "Wonderous Stories"), lots of Anderson/Squire ("The Prophet", "On the Silent Wings of Freedom"), lots of Anderson/Rabin/+ songs (including all of Talk), most of ABWH (Anderson + Wakeman beat Howe, except Downes' credit on "Brother of Mine" makes that one a tie). There are 62 songs where Yes win: all of Relayer (Howe + White beat Anderson), all of Drama, Open Your Eyes, The Ladder, Magnification and Heaven & Earth, Howe solos ("Clap") and scattered others (including "Yours is No Disgrace", "Foot Prints", "Turn of the Century", "Cinema").

    This is, of course, silly. It gives equal weight to "Close to the Edge" and "5% for Nothing", to "Heart of the Sunrise" and "Man in the Moon". It ignores that the songwriting credits are often wrong or don't show the relative contributions. But, there you go, have at it.

    Henry
    Nice work again, enjoyed the reading, thanks, Henry. Though, yes, it does not say much about the two Yes' now. The Quadriga of Yes remains Squire Howe Anderson Rabin. Squire though having less writing credits, but I think from decades of listening to Yes has been the - wild - heartbeat of that band, with his bass and harmonys and his almost imperceptible directing of the Music. Giving the chaos a special structure and discipline. This at least my main reason to be devoted to Yes.

    Hey, I felt inspired to give a spontaneous, momentary top ten list of Yessongs, if you don't mind:

    1: The Ancient
    2: Your's No Disgracce
    3: Big Generator
    4: Parallels
    5: Into The Lens
    6: I'm Running
    7: The Remembering
    8: The Calling
    9: Fortune Seller
    10: Arriving U.F.O

  5. #5
    Polishing the mirror Enlighten's Avatar
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    Re: More numbers to have a silly argument over

    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    There are, if my calculations are correct, 160 Yes songs released regularly on normal albums (so excluding "Show Me", "Montreux's Theme" etc., but I am including ABWH).

    We can look at the songwriting credits for each song and assign it into one of three categories: it has more songwriters in Yes ft Anderson Rabin Wakeman, it has more songwriters in Yes (+ Tony Kaye), or it's a tie.

    There are 35 songs were it's a tie, including various covers ("Every Little Thing"), Squire songs ("Parallels") or songs with Anderson/Howe balancing each other out ("Roundabout", "And You and I", "Shock to the System").

    There are 62 songs each in the other categories: they exactly balance. There are 62 songs where ARW win: lots of Anderson-penned songs ("Long Distance Runaround", "Wonderous Stories"), lots of Anderson/Squire ("The Prophet", "On the Silent Wings of Freedom"), lots of Anderson/Rabin/+ songs (including all of Talk), most of ABWH (Anderson + Wakeman beat Howe, except Downes' credit on "Brother of Mine" makes that one a tie). There are 62 songs where Yes win: all of Relayer (Howe + White beat Anderson), all of Drama, Open Your Eyes, The Ladder, Magnification and Heaven & Earth, Howe solos ("Clap") and scattered others (including "Yours is No Disgrace", "Foot Prints", "Turn of the Century", "Cinema").

    This is, of course, silly. It gives equal weight to "Close to the Edge" and "5% for Nothing", to "Heart of the Sunrise" and "Man in the Moon". It ignores that the songwriting credits are often wrong or don't show the relative contributions. But, there you go, have at it.

    Henry
    Slow Yes news day Henry?

  6. #6
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    Re: More numbers to have a silly argument over

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterCologne View Post
    Nice work again, enjoyed the reading, thanks, Henry. Though, yes, it does not say much about the two Yes' now. The Quadriga of Yes remains Squire Howe Anderson Rabin. Squire though having less writing credits, but I think from decades of listening to Yes has been the - wild - heartbeat of that band
    As I've said before, I don't really agree with your "quadriga". So I thought I'd look through the list I've just created. Out of 160 songs, there are 118 songs co-credited to Anderson (74%), 84 to Howe (53%), 91 to Squire (57%), and 26 to Rabin (16%). Squire has more writing credits in Yes than anyone other than Anderson, not less as you suggest.

    The top 4 are Anderson, Squire, Howe and White (60; 38%), then there's a big gap to Rabin, followed by Wakeman (23; 14%). So, I would suggest that supports a top 3 of Anderon, Squire and Howe, or a top four of Anderson, Squire, Howe and White, but Rabin's input is comparatively limited (fewer than half the credits White has), although he does beat out everyone else.

    Again, this gives equal weighting to "Angkor Wat" or "Let's Pretend" as it does to "Owner of a Lonely Heart" or "The Revealing Science of God", so...

    Henry
    Where Are They Now? Yes news: http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wh_now.htm
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  7. #7
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    Re: More numbers to have a silly argument over

    Quote Originally Posted by Enlighten View Post
    Slow Yes news day Henry?
    Laundry done, dishwasher on, cats fed.

    Henry
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  8. #8
    Polishing the mirror Enlighten's Avatar
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    Re: More numbers to have a silly argument over

    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    Laundry done, dishwasher on, cats fed.

    Henry

  9. #9
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    Re: More numbers to have a silly argument over

    I doubt Louis/maninthemoon thinks it's silly.

    You are NEVER alone...BACON is your friend!

  10. #10
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    Re: More numbers to have a silly argument over

    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    Squire has more writing credits in Yes than anyone other than Anderson, not less as you suggest.
    Which is indeed a - good - surprise for me. He is subjectively the very reason for that big love of Yes and me. And I think, that he also objectively shaped the band, musically and concerning the politics. I always thought that Yes would end when he stopps. But I decided that his spirit lives on in the band at least for a while (I felt it when I watched YesF the most though in the recent years0 .

    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    As I've said before, I don't really agree with your "quadriga". So I thought I'd look through the list I've just created. Out of 160 songs, there are 118 songs co-credited to Anderson (74%), 84 to Howe (53%), 91 to Squire (57%), and 26 to Rabin (16%). Squire has more writing credits in Yes than anyone other than Anderson, not less as you suggest.

    The top 4 are Anderson, Squire, Howe and White (60; 38%), then there's a big gap to Rabin, followed by Wakeman (23; 14%). So, I would suggest that supports a top 3 of Anderon, Squire and Howe, or a top four of Anderson, Squire, Howe and White, but Rabin's input is comparatively limited (fewer than half the credits White has), although he does beat out everyone else.

    Again, this gives equal weighting to "Angkor Wat" or "Let's Pretend" as it does to "Owner of a Lonely Heart" or "The Revealing Science of God", so...

    Henry

    Well, my Quadriga-theory is a quality-thing not a quantity one Of Course did Rabin write less than others on his three and 1/3 albums. But as I rate them amongst the most creative ones and as his influence on Yeshistory and its progression is high, I find it justifed, not only subjectively but also objectively.

    I am not sure at all how Yes would have developed if the classic lineup just had continued after a break after Drama. What we know does not really speak for a better history if Rabin never had happened: Albums like ABWH, Key To Ascenison - as much as we might accept and like them - don't really work as new prog-sensations. The Ladder and Magnification are not really classic-Yes as well, Mag maybe the most. The fine Open Your Eyes is another Story...

    Of Course everything could have developd differently. But hey, guys, if I really take just f.e. Steve Howes work in Asia and GTR and Jon Andersons soloalbums in consideration I don't feel that such a Yes really would have impressed. Prog and classic Yes were done at the end of the 70s. Drama and Weswest were logical steps.

    Only King Crimson managed to transform into a new hot progressive-life. But you can't compare such a Project with which one - reasonable - guy can do what he wants with a complex bandaffair like Yes.

  11. #11
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    Re: More numbers to have a silly argument over

    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    This is, of course, silly.
    Yeah.
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  12. #12
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    Re: More numbers to have a silly argument over

    A clear victory from ARW
    Peace, love, long live rock n roll

  13. #13
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    Uzi Re: More numbers to have a silly argument over

    Quote Originally Posted by popeyebonaparte View Post
    A clear victory from ARW
    LOL. Clear as Guinness
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  14. #14
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    Re: More numbers to have a silly argument over

    Wouldn't you just love to how the percentages for royalties are split up.

    I mean, really - the albums where they simply listed every member as a co-writer . . . How does Steve Howe get equal billing for Open Your Eyes?
    ---Pianozach---

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  15. #15
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    Re: More numbers to have a silly argument over

    Quote Originally Posted by pianozach View Post
    Wouldn't you just love to how the percentages for royalties are split up.
    Apparently, Anderson gets a cut from "Cinema".

    Henry
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  16. #16
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    Re: More numbers to have a silly argument over

    Quote Originally Posted by Enlighten View Post
    Slow Yes news day Henry?
    You mean Slow ARW news month

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    Re: More numbers to have a silly argument over

    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    Apparently, Anderson gets a cut from "Cinema".

    Henry
    I'm thinking that he simply gets a co-writing credit, but no $, or, if anything, 1%.

    But anything's possible: We already know that he felt he should be paid more for concert appearances with the band, so maybe he conned the rest of them into given him 50% while they split the other 50%.
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  18. #18
    Polishing the mirror Enlighten's Avatar
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    Re: More numbers to have a silly argument over

    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    Apparently, Anderson gets a cut from "Cinema".

    Henry
    If you listen very carefully at the 1:13 mark, there is a strategically placed cowbell hit that is panned hard left in the mix.....it really makes the song. That’s Anderson on cowbell and it’s the reason that instrumental was nominated for a Grammy.

  19. #19
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    Re: More numbers to have a silly argument over

    Quote Originally Posted by Enlighten View Post
    If you listen very carefully at the 1:13 mark, there is a strategically placed cowbell hit that is panned hard left in the mix.....it really makes the song. That’s Anderson on cowbell and it’s the reason that instrumental was nominated for a Grammy.
    Common misconception. Jon took credit for Trevor Horn's cowbell hit.
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  20. #20
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    Re: More numbers to have a silly argument over

    Quote Originally Posted by pianozach View Post
    I'm thinking that he simply gets a co-writing credit, but no $, or, if anything, 1%.
    That's the thing: he doesn't and has never had a co-writing credit, which is unsurprising given the piece was recorded before he'd joined. But it appears he does get a cut of the money: it was less than the others, but not trivial... 10% or something? Can't remember the details. Could be wrong.

    Henry
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