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Thread: Did I miss the the "what happened in Vegas" thread somewhere?

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    Re: Did I miss the the "what happened in Vegas" thread somewhere?

    You have to be careful about the mental health argument. I brought it up in Facebook post once, and got absolutely pounded by an advocate for the disabled/ mentally ill who pointed out in no uncertain terms that most of the perpetrators are while males and not necessarily mentally ill in any conventional diagnosable sense of the term. Her problem was that I seemed to cast mentally ill people as the bad guys, which was not my intention. But I get her point, we don't want the mentally challenged or mentally ill to be the next out group either, the vast majority do not commit these crimes. But they are more likely to kill themselves and suicide is a large fraction of gun deaths.


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    Insane Yesfan SeeTheDesert's Avatar
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    Re: Did I miss the the "what happened in Vegas" thread somewhere?

    Is feeling the need to have 47 guns a sign of mental illness? I know many think SNL is super left leaning but they did point out on weekend update that in Texas (a far right state), it's illegal to own more than 6 dildos. Supposedly because it shows some sign of perversion. I suggest that anyone who feels the need to have more than, let's say, 10 guns exhibits signs of some sort of complex
    What's conservative about people not paying their fair share in taxes, giving tax cuts to the wealthy and constantly putting the tax burden on the shrinking middle class?

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    Super Mega Insane Yesfan Sharp on Attack's Avatar
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    Re: Did I miss the the "what happened in Vegas" thread somewhere?

    Isn't a "well regulated militia" an odd 18th century phrasing simply for well...THE ARMY ?

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    Re: Did I miss the the "what happened in Vegas" thread somewhere?

    Quote Originally Posted by SeeTheDesert View Post
    Is feeling the need to have 47 guns a sign of mental illness? I know many think SNL is super left leaning but they did point out on weekend update that in Texas (a far right state), it's illegal to own more than 6 dildos. Supposedly because it shows some sign of perversion. I suggest that anyone who feels the need to have more than, let's say, 10 guns exhibits signs of some sort of complex
    I don't necessarily agree. My uncle was a gun maker his whole life and he collects really old and really rare guns. He is not mentally ill and is about as regular as anyone else. He just happens to have an appreciation for well crafted and vintage guns. I think the historical aspect of them is what appeals to him most. I know he has more than 30 guns, all legally obtained, all meticulously kept and only fired at the local gun range. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
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    Re: Did I miss the the "what happened in Vegas" thread somewhere?

    I think it was February of this year that the GOP and the President passed and signed legislation which makes it possible for people who have been determined to be so mentally ill that they cannot have power over their own money to get a gun.

    There's our government...hard at work for public safety.
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    Re: Did I miss the the "what happened in Vegas" thread somewhere?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mostly Harmless View Post
    I don't necessarily agree. My uncle was a gun maker his whole life and he collects really old and really rare guns. He is not mentally ill and is about as regular as anyone else. He just happens to have an appreciation for well crafted and vintage guns. I think the historical aspect of them is what appeals to him most. I know he has more than 30 guns, all legally obtained, all meticulously kept and only fired at the local gun range. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
    Yes we have to be careful not to broad stroke the issue to easily especially when the McVey's or this Vegas perpretrator have some issues. Specific issues we are not yet privy to.

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    Re: Did I miss the the "what happened in Vegas" thread somewhere?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharp on Attack View Post
    Isn't a "well regulated militia" an odd 18th century phrasing simply for well...THE ARMY ?
    Or does it mean something like the National Guard that could side with partisans against the "King's Army" of tyranny. In America your system has been designed to shield itself from solitary despots. Now if that despotism is shared by a larger select group then it is harder to have a full proof system. This why you have it designed that Congress makes laws. Otherwise some narcissistic egomaniac could rule by virtual decree which was what people were in shock about in Russia post Yeltsin when RasPUTIN expanded his "executive branch" powers by using those same unchecked powers. This is how journalists get killed and go missing and nobody goes to jail.

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    Insane Yesfan SeeTheDesert's Avatar
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    Re: Did I miss the the "what happened in Vegas" thread somewhere?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mostly Harmless View Post
    I don't necessarily agree. My uncle was a gun maker his whole life and he collects really old and really rare guns. He is not mentally ill and is about as regular as anyone else. He just happens to have an appreciation for well crafted and vintage guns. I think the historical aspect of them is what appeals to him most. I know he has more than 30 guns, all legally obtained, all meticulously kept and only fired at the local gun range. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
    I actually agree you cor collectors. For assulat type rifles, im not sure.
    What's conservative about people not paying their fair share in taxes, giving tax cuts to the wealthy and constantly putting the tax burden on the shrinking middle class?

  9. #109
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    Re: Did I miss the the "what happened in Vegas" thread somewhere?

    I know he has more than 30 guns, all legally obtained, all meticulously kept and only fired at the local gun range. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
    I would imagine that the frightened American in the photo I posted sitting in his room surrounded by weapons also obtained them all legally, meticulously maintains them and also fires them only at the local range. How is this guy any different than your uncle? How can someone prove that they only fire their guns at the "local range"?
    In other words, how can one (or the law) differentiate between your uncle with 30 guns and this guy?



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    Re: Did I miss the the "what happened in Vegas" thread somewhere?

    Quote Originally Posted by SeeTheDesert View Post
    I actually agree you cor collectors. For assulat type rifles, im not sure.
    As I mentioned, all of his weapons are legal. Assault weapons are not legal. He does not own assault rifles. Also, your previous post did not specify assault rifles; you just said that anyone who owns more than 10 guns must have some kind of complex. I think that is a gross generalization. I think there are a lot of regular American that own more than 10 guns who do not have a complex or mental health issues.

    Please don't get me wrong, I support common sense gun legislation.
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    Re: Did I miss the the "what happened in Vegas" thread somewhere?

    Quote Originally Posted by relayerone View Post
    I would imagine that the frightened American in the photo I posted sitting in his room surrounded by weapons also obtained them all legally, meticulously maintains them and also fires them only at the local range. How is this guy any different than your uncle? How can someone prove that they only fire their guns at the "local range"?
    In other words, how can one (or the law) differentiate between your uncle with 30 guns and this guy?



    I agree with you. I don't know how anyone is supposed to tell the difference. All I am saying is that we should not be so quick to paint them all with the same brush.
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    Re: Did I miss the the "what happened in Vegas" thread somewhere?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mostly Harmless View Post
    As I mentioned, all of his weapons are legal. Assault weapons are not legal. He does not own assault rifles. Also, your previous post did not specify assault rifles; you just said that anyone who owns more than 10 guns must have some kind of complex. I think that is a gross generalization. I think there are a lot of regular American that own more than 10 guns who do not have a complex or mental health issues.

    Please don't get me wrong, I support common sense gun legislation.
    I thought the way I started my thought showed that it was a questioning train of thought. But I still have to wonder what in the world compels a person to want/need/desire/have to have so many guns. I'm not talking about a true collector here.

    The easy Trite answer would be Napolian Complex type issues.

    The real reason is deeply more complex and is seated in a persons view of the world and how secure they feel in that mental state of mind the view gives them.

    I can tell you from experience that every one of the probably 12-15 people I've known who have many guns have varying levels of paranoia about security. Whether its personal or global.

    the simple fact that they cant realize that their guns won't really save them is evidence enough for me for phobic issues.

    But I'm a snowlfake
    What's conservative about people not paying their fair share in taxes, giving tax cuts to the wealthy and constantly putting the tax burden on the shrinking middle class?

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    Re: Did I miss the the "what happened in Vegas" thread somewhere?

    Quote Originally Posted by SeeTheDesert View Post
    I thought the way I started my thought showed that it was a questioning train of thought. But I still have to wonder what in the world compels a person to want/need/desire/have to have so many guns. I'm not talking about a true collector here.

    The easy Trite answer would be Napolian Complex type issues.

    The real reason is deeply more complex and is seated in a persons view of the world and how secure they feel in that mental state of mind the view gives them.

    I can tell you from experience that every one of the probably 12-15 people I've known who have many guns have varying levels of paranoia about security. Whether its personal or global.

    the simple fact that they cant realize that their guns won't really save them is evidence enough for me for phobic issues.

    But I'm a snowlfake
    Well...I don't think you're a snowflake.

    We are all very different people and we all have various hobbies and interests.

    Also, we all have our own opinions of what motivates others to do what they do or to like what they like.
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    SR Mega Yesfan Mr. Holland's Avatar
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    Re: Did I miss the the "what happened in Vegas" thread somewhere?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mostly Harmless View Post
    I agree with you. I don't know how anyone is supposed to tell the difference. All I am saying is that we should not be so quick to paint them all with the same brush.
    But sometimes to make rules/laws thag apply to everyone one has to paint with a broad brush. Not in the sense by declaring everyone with more than 10 guns "mentally challenged" or having some sort of complex, but in the sense that it doesn't make a difference what your reasons or background for having them is, it just shouldn't be allowed.
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    Re: Did I miss the the "what happened in Vegas" thread somewhere?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holland View Post
    But sometimes to make rules/laws thag apply to everyone one has to paint with a broad brush. Not in the sense by declaring everyone with more than 10 guns "mentally challenged" or having some sort of complex, but in the sense that it doesn't make a difference what your reasons or background for having them is, it just shouldn't be allowed.
    Funny if you look at Switzerland they have a citizen's militia or army. Everyone serves. That means people are responsible for sub machine guns and sometimes they are stored at home. But, ammunition is strictly controlled and that weapon cannot be fired unless the citizen is on military duty. Somewhere there is an armoury and if they are attacked they load up. Very little gun violence in Switzerland. America's cultural so-called "rugged individualism" is a culture of the number one and in a culture like that it is easy to go rogue if some form of severe anger and rage kicks in. Usually male which never makes the news. Canada measures high on the "individualism" front but when it comes to public safety or health it is more collectivist. So the broad stroke is trying to create one culture of safety when there are competing regional interpretations of what is fair or reasonable in terms of weapons ownership.

    The two times I have been to Las Vegas my son pointed out the posters in the airport that showed you can go to these select places of business to fire off and take pictures of yourself with assault weapons. It was sort of approached with humour but recent events show what a gun culture can do when there are no real limits other than the laws that say if you kill people you will face the justice system.

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    Re: Did I miss the the "what happened in Vegas" thread somewhere?

    ^^.....and even that is not much more than an empty thread when they kill themselves as quite often happens with mass shootings.....
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    Re: Did I miss the the "what happened in Vegas" thread somewhere?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holland View Post
    But sometimes to make rules/laws thag apply to everyone one has to paint with a broad brush. Not in the sense by declaring everyone with more than 10 guns "mentally challenged" or having some sort of complex, but in the sense that it doesn't make a difference what your reasons or background for having them is, it just shouldn't be allowed.
    I agree. I have stated several times that I support common sense gun legislation. I have not argued that point.I just don't care for the statements here that stereotype the folks that like their guns.

    Folks, please go back and read all the other posts that I have made expressing my outrage at the inaction of our law makers. I have consistently called for common sense gun legislation in this thread. I am in no way justifying inaction. All I am saying is that I know a lot of people with guns that do not match the stereotype that was put forth. That's all.
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    Re: Did I miss the the "what happened in Vegas" thread somewhere?

    Quote Originally Posted by EtherReal View Post
    Funny if you look at Switzerland they have a citizen's militia or army. Everyone serves. That means people are responsible for sub machine guns and sometimes they are stored at home. But, ammunition is strictly controlled and that weapon cannot be fired unless the citizen is on military duty. Somewhere there is an armoury and if they are attacked they load up. Very little gun violence in Switzerland. America's cultural so-called "rugged individualism" is a culture of the number one and in a culture like that it is easy to go rogue if some form of severe anger and rage kicks in. Usually male which never makes the news. Canada measures high on the "individualism" front but when it comes to public safety or health it is more collectivist. So the broad stroke is trying to create one culture of safety when there are competing regional interpretations of what is fair or reasonable in terms of weapons ownership.

    The two times I have been to Las Vegas my son pointed out the posters in the airport that showed you can go to these select places of business to fire off and take pictures of yourself with assault weapons. It was sort of approached with humour but recent events show what a gun culture can do when there are no real limits other than the laws that say if you kill people you will face the justice system.
    I think background checks and restrictions on ammo are an excellent idea. For folks that enjoy firing the weapons, sell them blanks, unless they are firing at the gun range or something. The bullets fired by this jerk in Vegas were designed to bounce around the body and cause lots of damage. Those should not be available to just anybody who wants them.

    One other aspect of this issue that rarely gets brought up here in the US is how much more danger our law enforcement is exposed to because of inability to pass common sense laws. And, indeed, we are seeing small local police departments beginning to arm themselves like the army. And with some of the police in this country seemingly as trigger happy as the criminals, that is a dangerous situation.
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    Re: Did I miss the the "what happened in Vegas" thread somewhere?

    You could use the 'mentally deranged' label on just about any collector. Most collectors are men and I think there is something slightly compulsive about collecting behaviour [I wouldn't exclude myself from that].

    Thankfully most collecting is harmless or relatively so. I would imagine a 'true enthusiast' [to frame it a bit less pejoratively] would not be put off by a bit of regulation. People collecting guns is not a problem - it's people using them that can be a bit unpleasant.

    Any sort of regulation on things which represent public safety necessarily impinge the rights of people who would act responsibly without any such law. The big problem in the US [other than the insidious influence of the NRA] is that the cork is out of the bottle.

    There are so many people on the streets who own weapons who are maniacs [in the broad, not literally pathological sense] I can well understand how some might feel safer arming themselves. But where there's a conflict situation, the better armed the antagonists are, the higher the casualties likely to result - that's just common sense. Unfortunately from the point of view of external observers, it appears very often to be a common sense US Society taken as a whole is sadly lacking. It is perfectly obvious also that many US citizens do share that perspective.

    Every time something hideous such as this happens I always think it's going to be the straw that finally brakes the camel's back. But this dromedary seems to be an especially hardy MoFo.

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    SR Mega Yesfan Mr. Holland's Avatar
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    Re: Did I miss the the "what happened in Vegas" thread somewhere?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mostly Harmless View Post
    I agree. I have stated several times that I support common sense gun legislation. I have not argued that point.I just don't care for the statements here that stereotype the folks that like their guns.

    Folks, please go back and read all the other posts that I have made expressing my outrage at the inaction of our law makers. I have consistently called for common sense gun legislation in this thread. I am in no way justifying inaction. All I am saying is that I know a lot of people with guns that do not match the stereotype that was put forth. That's all.
    I know your posts and your stance on guns legislation and I know you're in no way justifying inaction. Apologies if my post came across otherwise.

    What I am interested in is what in your opinion constitutes "common sense gun legislation" as "common sense" is sort of a vague term in itself.
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