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Thread: The Yes Nepotism Train/50th Anniversary

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    The Yes Nepotism Train/50th Anniversary

    So here's a controversial one, I'm sure will get me some heat....but forget that, everybody in Yes both bands is talented, I like all of them ...... and just answer the issue.


    When was the last time Yes added someone purely because they were the right musician for the job, no connections or anything, or trying to sound like someone else? ...it was Brislin, before that Igor.


    So asuming for the 50th Yes got back and said, ok we are going with only the 8 of the Hall induction and thinking of those who are involved Jon A/ Steve H/ Rick / Trevor/ Alan , and you had to fill the other positions, not affiliated with the YEs world at all (alt Dummer / Bass/ ) who would that be?

    I love Geddy Lee, I have no idea about drummer.
    Last edited by YESOLA; 2 Weeks Ago at 12:36 PM.
    So when we do concerts with any Yes music, I always say, there’s certain things you have to play that Chris played because without those notes, the voice doesn’t sing correctly. - Jon Anderson

    For me, it's Jon Anderson's distinctive, light but husky vocal that is as characteristic of their sound as anything - Andy MacIntyre





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    Re: The Yes Nepotism Train/50th Anniversary

    Dylan Howe :)
    Chris Squire RIP 1948-2015 thank you for every album every song every moment... the world will truly never be the same again.
    Yes is Steve Howe Geoff Downes Jon Davison Billy Sherwood an Alan White Dylan Howe and they have my support.
    GTT

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    Re: The Yes Nepotism Train/50th Anniversary

    Quote Originally Posted by Rabin105 View Post
    Dylan Howe :)
    haha Funny man .
    So when we do concerts with any Yes music, I always say, there’s certain things you have to play that Chris played because without those notes, the voice doesn’t sing correctly. - Jon Anderson

    For me, it's Jon Anderson's distinctive, light but husky vocal that is as characteristic of their sound as anything - Andy MacIntyre

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    Re: The Yes Nepotism Train/50th Anniversary

    Jay Schellen on drums, Billy on Bass. Billy got his first gig in Yes largely on his abilities long before he was Squire's chosen heir. I don't consider that nepotism.

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    Re: The Yes Nepotism Train/50th Anniversary

    Quote Originally Posted by JMKUSA View Post
    Jay Schellen on drums, Billy on Bass. Billy got his first gig in Yes largely on his abilities long before he was Squire's chosen heir. I don't consider that nepotism.
    I agree with both if I have to be honest ignoring nepotism Billy was the right man for the Job and Jay was as well
    Chris Squire RIP 1948-2015 thank you for every album every song every moment... the world will truly never be the same again.
    Yes is Steve Howe Geoff Downes Jon Davison Billy Sherwood an Alan White Dylan Howe and they have my support.
    GTT

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    Re: The Yes Nepotism Train/50th Anniversary

    Quote Originally Posted by JMKUSA View Post
    Billy got his first gig in Yes largely on his abilities long before he was Squire's chosen heir. I don't consider that nepotism.
    But they were friends, is the thing. That is the primary reason he was considered in the first place, and then it was agreed that he was/is talented enough to meet their standards. It's not nepotism in the sense of, "You must use this guy because he's my friend," but rather, "Hey I know a guy who would be great for this," and that's generally how it works anyway. You'd rather go with someone you already know.
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    Re: The Yes Nepotism Train/50th Anniversary

    Quote Originally Posted by Rabin105 View Post
    I agree with both if I have to be honest ignoring nepotism Billy was the right man for the Job and Jay was as well
    Quote Originally Posted by luna65 View Post
    But they were friends, is the thing. That is the primary reason he was considered in the first place, and then it was agreed that he was/is talented enough to meet their standards. It's not nepotism in the sense of, "You must use this guy because he's my friend," but rather, "Hey I know a guy who would be great for this," and that's generally how it works anyway. You'd rather go with someone you already know.

    Right, Billy was part of the family in a sense, but in the past, I guess he was a cold add, but not really there either, it's not like he had to audition or did he?

    Jay Schellen, right I thought of him, but he was added because there was a connection right? But even then why wasn't he kept on?

    I am saying Brislin was the last guy, but also Igor for live and an album.
    So when we do concerts with any Yes music, I always say, there’s certain things you have to play that Chris played because without those notes, the voice doesn’t sing correctly. - Jon Anderson

    For me, it's Jon Anderson's distinctive, light but husky vocal that is as characteristic of their sound as anything - Andy MacIntyre

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    Re: The Yes Nepotism Train/50th Anniversary

    Neil Peart, Dylan, or Jay

    Geddy or Tony Levin

    Brislin or Moraz

    Deborah Anderson backing vocals

    That would be a grand full sound with some well qualified nepotism.

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    Re: The Yes Nepotism Train/50th Anniversary

    Yup, Geddy on bass and the ferocious and incredibly talented Pat Mastelotto on drums.

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    Re: The Yes Nepotism Train/50th Anniversary

    Quote Originally Posted by Enlighten View Post
    Yup, Geddy on bass and the ferocious and incredibly talented Pat Mastelotto on drums.
    I spaced on Pat.... Bring him in!! While I'd have NO prob with Geddy, Pat and Tony are as tight as it gets. How about Tony on stick and Geddy on bass! That is a lot of interesting backing vocals too :)

    I don't care, I'd just enjoy it if they shook things up and did something wild for the 50th. Doesn't seem that long ago I saw them play the 2 from TFTO......... I'm sure others are excited though.

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    Re: The Yes Nepotism Train/50th Anniversary

    Quote Originally Posted by Enlighten View Post
    Yup, Geddy on bass and the ferocious and incredibly talented Pat Mastelotto on drums.
    wow yeah.
    So when we do concerts with any Yes music, I always say, there’s certain things you have to play that Chris played because without those notes, the voice doesn’t sing correctly. - Jon Anderson

    For me, it's Jon Anderson's distinctive, light but husky vocal that is as characteristic of their sound as anything - Andy MacIntyre

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    Re: The Yes Nepotism Train/50th Anniversary

    Quote Originally Posted by somissound View Post
    I spaced on Pat.... Bring him in!! While I'd have NO prob with Geddy, Pat and Tony are as tight as it gets. How about Tony on stick and Geddy on bass! That is a lot of interesting backing vocals too :)

    I don't care, I'd just enjoy it if they shook things up and did something wild for the 50th. Doesn't seem that long ago I saw them play the 2 from TFTO......... I'm sure others are excited though.
    No you're getting greedy Erik.........and I LIKE IT!

    Yup, shaking things up for the 50th would be wonderful. I mean, if not now, when? I'm not banking on a 75th, the 50th is really an incredible opportunity to go for it.

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    Re: The Yes Nepotism Train/50th Anniversary

    Quote Originally Posted by YESOLA View Post
    wow yeah.
    That would be a take no prisoners rhythm section, blow the frickin' socks off any joint they played.

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    Re: The Yes Nepotism Train/50th Anniversary

    Am I the only one who thinks that, however great a fit Geddy would be for a post-50th version of Yes, it would not at all be the right thing for Geddy? For a start, he's too nice a guy (with too much of a legacy of his own) to get mixed up with the self-centred egotistical freaks that have made up Yes down the years. (I mean that out of all due respect to the Yes muscians we all know and love from down the years, but as human beings not many of them are the decent kind of people with whom we would like to associate). But mainly, the current status of Rush is a bit uncertain. We know Rush have given up touring, but there is more of a question mark over whether they will produce new recordings. The last thing we would want is for a misguided commitment to the mess that is Yes to compromise anything that the band with the highest integrity might want to do in the future. And for another thing, much as Yes was an inspiration to Lee and Lifeson in their early days, their musical styles are very different. I cannot imagine Geddy being musically satisfied seeing his career out being a surrogate Chris Squire playing the Yes back-catalogue. So, for me, out of the immense respect due to Geddy Lee, let's park that one?

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    Re: The Yes Nepotism Train/50th Anniversary

    Quote Originally Posted by Blencathra View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks that, however great a fit Geddy would be for a post-50th version of Yes, it would not at all be the right thing for Geddy? For a start, he's too nice a guy (with too much of a legacy of his own) to get mixed up with the self-centred egotistical freaks that have made up Yes down the years. (I mean that out of all due respect to the Yes muscians we all know and love from down the years, but as human beings not many of them are the decent kind of people with whom we would like to associate). But mainly, the current status of Rush is a bit uncertain. We know Rush have given up touring, but there is more of a question mark over whether they will produce new recordings. The last thing we would want is for a misguided commitment to the mess that is Yes to compromise anything that the band with the highest integrity might want to do in the future. And for another thing, much as Yes was an inspiration to Lee and Lifeson in their early days, their musical styles are very different. I cannot imagine Geddy being musically satisfied seeing his career out being a surrogate Chris Squire playing the Yes back-catalogue. So, for me, out of the immense respect due to Geddy Lee, let's park that one?
    I think the good folks here were making that choice simply in the realm of fantasy, Geddy ain't playing in Yes anytime soon but we'll always have the Hall of Fame.

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    Re: The Yes Nepotism Train/50th Anniversary

    Quote Originally Posted by Blencathra View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks that, however great a fit Geddy would be for a post-50th version of Yes, it would not at all be the right thing for Geddy? For a start, he's too nice a guy (with too much of a legacy of his own) to get mixed up with the self-centred egotistical freaks that have made up Yes down the years. (I mean that out of all due respect to the Yes muscians we all know and love from down the years, but as human beings not many of them are the decent kind of people with whom we would like to associate). But mainly, the current status of Rush is a bit uncertain. We know Rush have given up touring, but there is more of a question mark over whether they will produce new recordings. The last thing we would want is for a misguided commitment to the mess that is Yes to compromise anything that the band with the highest integrity might want to do in the future. And for another thing, much as Yes was an inspiration to Lee and Lifeson in their early days, their musical styles are very different. I cannot imagine Geddy being musically satisfied seeing his career out being a surrogate Chris Squire playing the Yes back-catalogue. So, for me, out of the immense respect due to Geddy Lee, let's park that one?
    Quote Originally Posted by Enlighten View Post
    I think the good folks here were making that choice simply in the realm of fantasy, Geddy ain't playing in Yes anytime soon but we'll always have the Hall of Fame.

    Yeah true, you almost feel bad for Geddy up there at the Rock Hall thing, with all the backstory. I wonder what he knows? But yes as Jay says, it's fantasy.....but I don't know if Geddy would necessarily be against it for a tour.
    So when we do concerts with any Yes music, I always say, there’s certain things you have to play that Chris played because without those notes, the voice doesn’t sing correctly. - Jon Anderson

    For me, it's Jon Anderson's distinctive, light but husky vocal that is as characteristic of their sound as anything - Andy MacIntyre

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    Re: The Yes Nepotism Train/50th Anniversary

    It's not nepotism until members of the Squire and Anderson family trees are in it.

    Nothing is misguided to it's creators, only the recipients who didn't want the expectation ruined for them.

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    Re: The Yes Nepotism Train/50th Anniversary

    Just to make sure we're all clear here on what words mean:

    Nepotism is when someone favors or grants patronage to a member of his or her family in business (Who you hire, who you buy things from, who you sell to at good rates, etc.). Literal family- your blood relatives and people who have married you or your blood relatives, plus people who were legally adopted by yourself or your blood relatives as children.

    So, someone *could* accuse Yes of nepotism for adding Dylan Howe as a touring musician, since his father is Steve Howe, the lead guitarist (I am not saying those accusations are true, I am just saying that they don't obviously run counter to the definition of the word), but allegations of nepotism wouldn't be applicable to people like Geoff Downes, Billy Sherwood, and Jon Davison. Unless one of them is Alan White's illegitimate son or is married to his daughter, there is no way one could possibly say that they got their positions in the band through nepotism. :)

    Similarly, one could argue that Jon Anderson's son got his voiceover on that Tormato track through nepotism, but Lee Pomeroy and Lou Molino aren't working with ARW because of nepotism (That is not an opinion- unless they are somehow related to A, R, or W in a literal way, it's not nepotism).

    Billy Sherwood was Chris Squire's protege, but that's a different thing. Having a guy work under you and teaching him everything you know so that he can one day replace you is a time honored tradition, and it often may mean that the person who's served as your protege is the best qualified person to take your place by the time the time comes. Billy has been working with some of these band members on and off for over 30 years inside and outside of Yes. I think he has a ton of natural ability, but he also has work experience in a major way that directly relates to the job he took. If you were hiring for a non-music job in the business world, and someone could list 30 years working for your company and other companies that do the same thing you do, that'd count for something, right?

    I also have to say, just personally, I have all the Lodgic, Circa:, World Trade, Conspiracy, Yoso, and Prog Collective studio albums that Billy Sherwood has been a part of, plus all but one of his solo albums released under his own name (The one I am missing is set to be reissued in November and I plan to buy it then), and, even setting aside his involvement in Yes, he's one of my favorite musicians. I don't know if I would have discovered him if not for Yes, but I think I would have enjoyed his music regardless of how I discovered him.

    It's also notable that Sherwood was asked by John Wetton to fill in for him with Asia before he passed away. That's the second legend who's done that. Sherwood has a lot of respect from some great bass players and vocalists.

    Obviously, Geoff Downes' track record with the Buggles and Asia speaks for itself.

    I would grant that Jon Davison was hired because he sounds somewhat like a young Jon Anderson, but do you really want someone who can't sing anywhere near Jon Anderson's original octave singing lead for Yes? Would that sound like the same band to you? He did have previous work experience in a prog band- Glass Hammer- and a rock band in a different rock sub-genre, Sky Cries Mary. So it's not like they just found a guy with the right voice without regard to anything else. But of course that high-pitched lead singer is part of what many people feel defines Yes as Yes. Eddie Vedder is a great lead singer, but you'd be hard pressed to sell people on him as the right selection to sing lead for Yes, despite how good he's been with Pearl Jam. :)

    I honestly think talking about guys like Geddy Lee to play bass in Yes long-term is a pie-in-the-sky sort of thing. I just can't see him going from lead singer of Rush where he was selling out huge arenas to not being the lead singer with another band, even one he likes. Even if Rush is over, I'd imagine he'd try a solo career or a new band where he was top banana before considering anything like that. At the very minimum, I think they'd have to offer Geddy the opportunity to sing lead on a selection of Rush songs interspersed with Yes songs live- and even then, I don't think he would do it long-term, nor do I think Yes is interested in being a band that does Rush songs for 50% of their stage time yet. :) I wouldn't be shocked if, should these older bands last another decade or two, they start doing some popular songs from similar bands that aren't around any longer as a regular thing to sort of consolidate some shrinking fan bases into fewer groups to fill seats and sell albums, but we're not there yet. Right now, the Yes name and legacy by itself seems to be enough to support not just one, but two, separate bands claiming to be Yes. :)
    Last edited by downbyariver; 2 Weeks Ago at 08:12 PM.
    "A lot of the heavier conversations I was having with Chris toward the end were about his desire for this thing to go forward. He kept reiterating that to me. He kept telling me, ‘No matter what happens, Yes needs to continue moving forward and make great music. So promise me that that’s something you want to do.’ And I have to keep making music. It’s just what I do. I’m a fan of the band and I want to see it thrive and that means new music." -Billy Sherwood (Quote edited to fit under character limit for sig files)

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    Re: The Yes Nepotism Train/50th Anniversary

    Quote Originally Posted by Blencathra View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks that, however great a fit Geddy would be for a post-50th version of Yes, it would not at all be the right thing for Geddy? For a start, he's too nice a guy (with too much of a legacy of his own) to get mixed up with the self-centred egotistical freaks that have made up Yes down the years. (I mean that out of all due respect to the Yes muscians we all know and love from down the years, but as human beings not many of them are the decent kind of people with whom we would like to associate). But mainly, the current status of Rush is a bit uncertain. We know Rush have given up touring, but there is more of a question mark over whether they will produce new recordings. The last thing we would want is for a misguided commitment to the mess that is Yes to compromise anything that the band with the highest integrity might want to do in the future. And for another thing, much as Yes was an inspiration to Lee and Lifeson in their early days, their musical styles are very different. I cannot imagine Geddy being musically satisfied seeing his career out being a surrogate Chris Squire playing the Yes back-catalogue. So, for me, out of the immense respect due to Geddy Lee, let's park that one?
    Yes music doesn't sound right when the bass is played with fingers; need a pick to get that Squire *crunch* sound. Jeff Berlin, Tony Levin, Geddy, all finger players. Great to see Geddy with Yes rocking out but again Roundabout really needed that pick sound to cut through, listen to the official YouTube vid with open ears, you'll see what I mean.
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    Re: The Yes Nepotism Train/50th Anniversary

    Quote Originally Posted by downbyariver View Post
    Just to make sure we're all clear here on what words mean:

    Nepotism is when someone favors or grants patronage to a member of his or her family in business (Who you hire, who you buy things from, who you sell to at good rates, etc.). Literal family- your blood relatives and people who have married you or your blood relatives, plus people who were legally adopted by yourself or your blood relatives as children.

    For this post, it's a bit wider including friendships connections etc. The British definition seems to include that. In any case that's the spirit of this thread


    nepotism
    NOUN
    mass noun
    · The practice among those with power or influence of favouring relatives or friends, especially by giving them jobs.
    ‘his years in office were marked by corruption and nepotism’
    More example sentences
    Synonyms

    Quote Originally Posted by downbyariver View Post
    So, someone *could* accuse Yes of nepotism for adding Dylan Howe as a touring musician, since his father is Steve Howe,

    haha , seriously?....yes I think this applies.

    Quote Originally Posted by downbyariver View Post
    but allegations of nepotism wouldn't be applicable to people like Geoff Downes, Billy Sherwood, and Jon Davison. Unless one of them is Alan White's illegitimate son or is married to his daughter, there is no way one could possibly say that they got their positions in the band through nepotism. :)

    Actually for the friendship zone this applies, Sherwood became friends with Quire, Downes at one time happened to be in the next studio, and bang they are in Yes...but the second time was because of Horn, friends and all this....Jon Davision freind of Foo Fighters dude, who is friend of Squire...for the purpose of sounding like Jon. Not based totally on his ability, to do other things, you have to say.



    Quote Originally Posted by downbyariver View Post
    Similarly, one could argue that Jon Anderson's son got his voiceover on that Tormato track through nepotism, but Lee Pomeroy and Lou Molino aren't working with ARW because of nepotism (That is not an opinion- unless they are somehow related to A, R, or W in a literal way, it's not nepotism).
    They were brought in because they were well acquainted with Wakeman and Trevor, I do not think that they are what was touted. Don’t get me wrong they are great, but as Danny mentioned in another post , ARW hinted at some big names for those spots. You do not get the sense that they would shape the music in any way, or in the shows. The bass is too low, and does not cut through.

    Quote Originally Posted by downbyariver View Post
    Billy Sherwood was Chris Squire's protege, but that's a different thing. Having a guy work under you and teaching him everything you know so that he can one day replace you is a time honored tradition, and it often may mean that the person who's served as your protege is the best qualified person to take your place by the time the time comes. Billy has been working with some of these band members on and off for over 30 years inside and outside of Yes. I think he has a ton of natural ability, but he also has work experience in a major way that directly relates to the job he took. If you were hiring for a non-music job in the business world, and someone could list 30 years working for your company and other companies that do the same thing you do, that'd count for something, right?
    I can agree that this is the case, but Yes didn’t do that before, my point is that they have not looked outside of this type of situation for a long time.



    Quote Originally Posted by downbyariver View Post
    It's also notable that Sherwood was asked by John Wetton to fill in for him with Asia before he passed away. That's the second legend who's done that. Sherwood has a lot of respect from some great bass players and vocalists.
    Yeah Never said that Billy wasn’t good. Wetton worked with Billy before, so he knows him. But this is beyond the topic a bit.
    So when we do concerts with any Yes music, I always say, there’s certain things you have to play that Chris played because without those notes, the voice doesn’t sing correctly. - Jon Anderson

    For me, it's Jon Anderson's distinctive, light but husky vocal that is as characteristic of their sound as anything - Andy MacIntyre

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