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Thread: Steve Howe on Geoff Downes

  1. #41
    Mega Insane Yesfan josuev80's Avatar
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    Re: Steve Howe on Geoff Downes

    Quote Originally Posted by SeeTheDesert View Post
    And to add, I am forever grateful to Trevor for keeping Yes alive and I actually like (almost love) a lot of Yeswest. But the treatment of Yes tunes Steve created leaves much to be desired IMHO
    Trevor in YesF IMHO seems to treat the classic Yes material with more "respect" than when he was with YesWest.
    I am a fan of Yes and YesF

  2. #42
    Insane Yesfan SeeTheDesert's Avatar
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    Re: Steve Howe on Geoff Downes

    Quote Originally Posted by josuev80 View Post
    Trevor in YesF IMHO seems to treat the classic Yes material with more "respect" than when he was with YesWest.
    Agreed, I haven't seen a YesF show but have seen videos. His interpretations of the classic are far better now than Yeswest
    What's conservative about people not paying their fair share in taxes, giving tax cuts to the wealthy and constantly putting the tax burden on the shrinking middle class?

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    Re: Steve Howe on Geoff Downes

    Geoff brings a different sensibility to the Yes keyboard slot. He's a more textural, orchestral and organic in his approach - a less ostentatious player than Wakeman. His command of technology is considerable and his sound selections are based on a solid understanding of sound design. He plays with and through the music, rather than over it it. Personally, I like that. I appreciate his sound selections. Rick is known for extravagantly fast runs, which Geoff tends to abbreviate or adapt. It's just not his style. You can see that as a weakness if you like. But Rick has his weaknesses too. Watch his left hand. So in terms of comparisons, it's really a matter of different strokes and different preferences.
    Last edited by simonbarrow; 1 Week Ago at 06:42 PM.
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  4. #44
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    Re: Steve Howe on Geoff Downes

    Quote Originally Posted by josuev80 View Post
    Trevor in YesF IMHO seems to treat the classic Yes material with more "respect" than when he was with YesWest.
    Really? Rabin has explicitly said that he is re-interpreting guitar parts more in ARW than in the past. He and Wakeman have their whole "imagine you were there when the song was created" approach.

    Henry
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  5. #45
    Mega Insane Yesfan josuev80's Avatar
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    Re: Steve Howe on Geoff Downes

    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    Really? Rabin has explicitly said that he is re-interpreting guitar parts more in ARW than in the past. He and Wakeman have their whole "imagine you were there when the song was created" approach.

    Henry
    Other people have noted it as well. Maybe he is "reinterpreting" the way he first played the classic material in a less "thrashy" manner and closer to the way Howe played/plays it. He is not playing it Howesquely, but stylistically, it is closer than the Rabin of 20-30 years ago.
    I am a fan of Yes and YesF

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    Insane Yesfan DrSludge's Avatar
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    Re: Steve Howe on Geoff Downes

    I think Downes is kind of a douche... personally and politically. Admittedly, I don't know him personally and am basing my opinion solely on what I've read of his posts. I'm guessing his attitude partly comes from being second choice to RW so many times...it seems like it might stick in his craw just a bit.

    Musically...meh...fair-to-middling. Good enough. Loved Drama, but mainly because of Chris and Steve's playing.

    That being said, the guy certainly gets more mailbox money than RW...and has less ex-wives to pay. So if money is how you keep score... he's a winner there.

  7. #47
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    Re: Steve Howe on Geoff Downes

    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    Geoff finished his music degree; Rick didn't finish his. Geoff's got more formal training.

    Henry

    That means absolutely nothing. Now the observation that Geoff isn't the "twiddler" Rick is is legitimate critique. At the HOF to start Roundabout Rick went straight into some annoying twiddling that he cooked up. Too many notes. Bad place for them. Not saying a person with their degree couldn't be top of the pile but Rick has better technical chops than Geoff IMHO. That said Yes sounds best with Tony being more subtle and ditto Geoff but that is what I like in the that band context more than anything else. When Rick sits down to play pipe organ there is nobody quite like him. Also Patrick Moraz has a similar ability to Rick and correct me if I'm wrong but he did complete his studies in Lausanne. Moraz on Relayer and Fish Out Of Water contributed some of Yes' best keyboard work.

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    Insane Yesfan SeeTheDesert's Avatar
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    Re: Steve Howe on Geoff Downes

    Steve and Rick used to compete for the same space and leads in songs dont forget
    What's conservative about people not paying their fair share in taxes, giving tax cuts to the wealthy and constantly putting the tax burden on the shrinking middle class?

  9. #49
    SR Mega Yesfan Mr. Holland's Avatar
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    Re: Steve Howe on Geoff Downes

    Quote Originally Posted by josuev80 View Post
    Other people have noted it as well. Maybe he is "reinterpreting" the way he first played the classic material in a less "thrashy" manner and closer to the way Howe played/plays it. He is not playing it Howesquely, but stylistically, it is closer than the Rabin of 20-30 years ago.
    I agree. It seems like he has a better understanding now, or perhaps is more willing to work from that understanding, for what those classic tracks need.
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  10. #50
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    Re: Steve Howe on Geoff Downes

    Quote Originally Posted by DrSludge View Post
    I think Downes is kind of a douche... personally and politically. Admittedly, I don't know him personally and am basing my opinion solely on what I've read of his posts. I'm guessing his attitude partly comes from being second choice to RW so many times...it seems like it might stick in his craw just a bit.
    That's a very Yes-centric view of Downes' career. He's been a far more successful musician than Wakeman over their careers arguably. Asia was the best selling album of 1982 in the US. "Video Killed the Radio Star" was a global #1.

    Henry
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    Re: Steve Howe on Geoff Downes

    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    That's a very Yes-centric view of Downes' career. He's been a far more successful musician than Wakeman over their careers arguably. Asia was the best selling album of 1982 in the US. "Video Killed the Radio Star" was a global #1.

    Henry
    I wouldn't describe 'success' in terms of sales, or even bother with the idea of 'success' at all. When I saw Buggles on Top of the Pops doing Video Killed the Radio-Star I loathed it from the off, still do. Appalling piece of rubbish! So when I head they and Yes had joined forces after Jon and Rick left in 1979, I was mortified, and I still haven't recovered; I did not and do not like Drama. Downes' return with Fly From High marked the beginning of my withdrawal from my devotions to the band. Wakeman did his best work over 40 years ago, for sure, and his jokes fall flat for me mostly, but Downes? A douche for sure!

  12. #52
    Insane Yesfan happytheman's Avatar
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    Re: Steve Howe on Geoff Downes

    Quote Originally Posted by josuev80 View Post
    Other people have noted it as well. Maybe he is "reinterpreting" the way he first played the classic material in a less "thrashy" manner and closer to the way Howe played/plays it. He is not playing it Howesquely, but stylistically, it is closer than the Rabin of 20-30 years ago.
    I seem to remember reading something in the past where Rabin says his original conversation with Chris when they knew they were taking the 90125 material on the road and obviously Yes material would be a part of the setlist Chris told him he didn't want him to play the songs the way Howe did.. I know I'm one of the few who only saw Yes once with Rabin (BG tour) but still to this day felt like Rabin played the "classics" just fine.. I'll grant you when he did his bit with Howe on the Union tour he shredded a bit much on YIND.. But again it was at Squire's suggestion that he take liberties with the songs..

  13. #53
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    Re: Steve Howe on Geoff Downes

    Quote Originally Posted by Don the Cap View Post
    I wouldn't describe 'success' in terms of sales, or even bother with the idea of 'success' at all. When I saw Buggles on Top of the Pops doing Video Killed the Radio-Star I loathed it from the off, still do. Appalling piece of rubbish! So when I head they and Yes had joined forces after Jon and Rick left in 1979, I was mortified, and I still haven't recovered; I did not and do not like Drama. Downes' return with Fly From High marked the beginning of my withdrawal from my devotions to the band. Wakeman did his best work over 40 years ago, for sure, and his jokes fall flat for me mostly, but Downes? A douche for sure!
    You can describe "success" however you want. The discussion was around Downes' point of view. I think, as an artist, if you have attracted huge audiences and generated vast income, you probably feel proud of your achievements.

    I am sorry you are struggling to still recover from something that happened 37 years ago.

    Henry
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    Re: Steve Howe on Geoff Downes

    Quote Originally Posted by josuev80 View Post
    Trevor in YesF IMHO seems to treat the classic Yes material with more "respect" than when he was with YesWest.
    --
    Disgree , he does the bear minimum
    It does not seem right Rabin playing some of the YES classics
    The reinterpretation of Awaken does not work for many on here , for example
    Similary Wakeman is sometimes out of place on the YESWEST pieces , I am waiting for example
    Just saying , but i still love the lineup and the material they play

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    Re: Steve Howe on Geoff Downes

    Back on topic ,Downes does a great job for YES
    Well done Geoff

  16. #56
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    Re: Steve Howe on Geoff Downes

    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    You can describe "success" however you want. The discussion was around Downes' point of view. I think, as an artist, if you have attracted huge audiences and generated vast income, you probably feel proud of your achievements.

    I am sorry you are struggling to still recover from something that happened 37 years ago.

    Henry
    Very nice of you to be so sympathetic to my ongoing plight. And all without being remotely pompous about it.

  17. #57
    Christopher YESOLA's Avatar
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    Re: Steve Howe on Geoff Downes

    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    Really? Rabin has explicitly said that he is re-interpreting guitar parts more in ARW than in the past. He and Wakeman have their whole "imagine you were there when the song was created" approach.

    Henry
    Eh, whatever, it's not really that much, I agree with those saying it's closer to the vest these days. I think ARW are heading int he right direction.
    So when we do concerts with any Yes music, I always say, there’s certain things you have to play that Chris played because without those notes, the voice doesn’t sing correctly. - Jon Anderson

    For me, it's Jon Anderson's distinctive, light but husky vocal that is as characteristic of their sound as anything - Andy MacIntyre

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    Re: Steve Howe on Geoff Downes

    Quote Originally Posted by happytheman View Post
    I know I'm one of the few who only saw Yes once with Rabin (BG tour) but still to this day felt like Rabin played the "classics" just fine.. I'll grant you when he did his bit with Howe on the Union tour he shredded a bit much on YIND.. But again it was at Squire's suggestion that he take liberties with the songs..
    It's like I've said over the (many) years...if you want to blame Trevor for "ruining" Yes, or whatever, start with Chris. Because Chris was the one who brought him in and encouraged him to be who he is. If not for Chris, Trevor wouldn't have even joined the band.
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    Re: Steve Howe on Geoff Downes

    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    That's a very Yes-centric view of Downes' career. He's been a far more successful musician than Wakeman over their careers arguably. Asia was the best selling album of 1982 in the US. "Video Killed the Radio Star" was a global #1.

    Henry
    Quote Originally Posted by Don the Cap View Post
    I wouldn't describe 'success' in terms of sales, or even bother with the idea of 'success' at all. When I saw Buggles on Top of the Pops doing Video Killed the Radio-Star I loathed it from the off, still do. Appalling piece of rubbish! So when I head they and Yes had joined forces after Jon and Rick left in 1979, I was mortified, and I still haven't recovered; I did not and do not like Drama. Downes' return with Fly From High marked the beginning of my withdrawal from my devotions to the band. Wakeman did his best work over 40 years ago, for sure, and his jokes fall flat for me mostly, but Downes? A douche for sure!
    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    You can describe "success" however you want. The discussion was around Downes' point of view. I think, as an artist, if you have attracted huge audiences and generated vast income, you probably feel proud of your achievements.

    I am sorry you are struggling to still recover from something that happened 37 years ago.

    Henry
    Quote Originally Posted by Don the Cap View Post
    Very nice of you to be so sympathetic to my ongoing plight. And all without being remotely pompous about it.

    I think it's true that to look at Downes totally, you have to look at him, not so yescentric. I mean really he's compiling years on now as a yesman, but really his legacy is not as much Yes, but it definitely includes Yes at some interesting points.

    This interview goes alot over Downes career ...he definitely has nothing to be ashamed of, and in some respects, he may have outdone Wakeman. He seems to be generally liked by the people he works with.