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Thread: Brexit voters, please pay attention!!

  1. #481
    This is my current user title Discount Ministry's Avatar
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    Re: Brexit voters, please pay attention!!

    Quote Originally Posted by DrSludge View Post
    Lots of "buyer's remorse" for Leave, it seems.

    Another referendum is comin' like Christmas....and Leave will lose.

    Maybe the UK will have a chance to correct a huge mistake...unlike the US.

    What mistake? We'd have bankrupted them years ago.
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  2. #482
    SR Mega Yesfan RelayerI's Avatar
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    Re: Brexit voters, please pay attention!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2210 View Post
    You do get though that with the present administration (or one not too unlike it) all those things could get seriously worse post-Brexit? That's my biggest fear and unfortunately I don't think it's all that unlikely.
    Oh God yes.

    I'm also somewhat confident that what they do next, coupled with the utter shambles they've made of Brexit will rapidly see them out of office AND keep them out of power for the foreseeable future.
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  3. #483
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    Re: Brexit voters, please pay attention!!

    Quote Originally Posted by RelayerI View Post
    Oh God yes.

    I'm also somewhat confident that what they do next, coupled with the utter shambles they've made of Brexit will rapidly see them out of office AND keep them out of power for the foreseeable future.
    Well I share your hope, but I can’t see anyone in their right mind voting for Labour. They have been invisible and inscrutable throughout the last two years. Goodness only knows what their views on Brexit are.


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  4. #484
    SR Mega Yesfan RelayerI's Avatar
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    Re: Brexit voters, please pay attention!!

    My theory is that they're keeping out of it and letting the Tories hang themselves.

    It would probably have been a decent plan of they'd also read the memo regarding the importance of not sabotaging themselves in the meantime...
    Soon oh soon the light, Pass within and soothe this endless night, And wait here for you, Our reason to be here...

  5. #485
    Super Insane Yesfan DrSludge's Avatar
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    Re: Brexit voters, please pay attention!!

    However it shakes out... keep Steve Bannon over there...we don't want him back.

  6. #486
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    Re: Brexit voters, please pay attention!!

    Quote Originally Posted by DrSludge View Post
    However it shakes out... keep Steve Bannon over there...we don't want him back.
    I don't know man, Steve Bannon pretty much $%^&s up everything he touches. Steve Bannon's power and influence is more mythical than real. If there's to be a "Blue Wave", Steve Bannon's fat-ass belly flop will probably be the cause of the Tsunami.
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  7. #487
    SR Mega Yesfan Mr. Holland's Avatar
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    Re: Brexit voters, please pay attention!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonto Goldstein View Post
    I don't know man, Steve Bannon pretty much $%^&s up everything he touches. Steve Bannon's power and influence is more mythical than real. If there's to be a "Blue Wave", Steve Bannon's fat-ass belly flop will probably be the cause of the Tsunami.
    ...but then again, Steve Bannon's fat-ass belly flop is real and mythical at the same time...
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  8. #488
    Super Insane Yesfan DrSludge's Avatar
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    Re: Brexit voters, please pay attention!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holland View Post
    ...but then again, Steve Bannon's fat-ass belly flop is real and mythical at the same time...
    You guys have Geert Wilders, an even bigger Nazi than Bannon....but he does clean up better.

  9. #489
    Yes Old Fart Chris2210's Avatar
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    Re: Brexit voters, please pay attention!!

    Quote Originally Posted by RelayerI View Post
    My theory is that they're keeping out of it and letting the Tories hang themselves.

    It would probably have been a decent plan of they'd also read the memo regarding the importance of not sabotaging themselves in the meantime...
    Are you referring to the anti-Semitism row? It seems to me slightly bizarre that a party that has four Jewish MPs [including the last leader] in its ranks drawn from a UK Jewish population of a mere c291,000 [that's 4.26% vs 0.5%] can be painted as anti-Semitic.

    They really can't win on this one: They've adopted the IHRC definiton of anti-Semitism, but haven't reproduced verbatim the examples. I suspect that at least for some, while Corbyn is leader, nothing they ever do will be enough.

    The reason some of the examples are problematic is that they represent fairly equivocal instances that couldn't have much bearing in law. Further they could be used by some of those elements that would conflate Jews with the state of Israel either way.

    While the IHRC itself speaks of not equating anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism [it would after all make a sizeable number of Jews anti-Semites!] some of the examples would make criticism of actions of the Israeli government problematic. And of course if the examples were to be applied retroactively it would mean a lot of people on the left of the party would fall foul to the letter of the examples.

    I think it is unfortunate and insensitive that some have compared the activities of the state of Israel in its annexing of Palestinian territories with the Nazis, but is it necessarily anti-Semitic? Again some Jews would also fall foul of that.

    There's also the questions over discussion of Jewish influence - particularly the lobby in the US. Again making that forbidden would suit the Zionist lobbies and stifle legitimate criticism any of the internationally illegal activities of the Israeli administration in the Labour Party.

    There is little doubt the neo-liberal press [for example the BBC, the Guardian] are seeing this as a useful tool to undermine socialism within the Labour Party after their previous attempts failed so spectacularly.

    That of course is not to say there is no anti-Semitism in the Labour Party, or racism in general and some will mix up anti-Zionism [or more accurately the state of Israel and its activities and the Jewish lobbies] and an irrational hatred of all Jews.

    Applying that as a stick to beat the current leadership is a dangerous game and it's the sort of manipulation of the narrative which raises suspicion of the media, which they in turn will bleat about when it opens the door to 'alt facts'.

    It's a shitty game; and like those who falsely cry rape, ultimately they undermine the cause they ostensibly espouse - in this case the genuine fight against racism in all its forms.

  10. #490
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    Re: Brexit voters, please pay attention!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holland View Post
    ...but then again, Steve Bannon's fat-ass belly flop is real and mythical at the same time...
    Come on man, keep up. His political acumen and savvy are mythical, his ability to belly flop is real. :-)
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    (let this be a warning to anyone who wants to get in an argument with me. :-)

  11. #491
    SR Mega Yesfan RelayerI's Avatar
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    Re: Brexit voters, please pay attention!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2210 View Post
    Are you referring to the anti-Semitism row? It seems to me slightly bizarre that a party that has four Jewish MPs [including the last leader] in its ranks drawn from a UK Jewish population of a mere c291,000 [that's 4.26% vs 0.5%] can be painted as anti-Semitic.

    They really can't win on this one: They've adopted the IHRC definiton of anti-Semitism, but haven't reproduced verbatim the examples. I suspect that at least for some, while Corbyn is leader, nothing they ever do will be enough.

    The reason some of the examples are problematic is that they represent fairly equivocal instances that couldn't have much bearing in law. Further they could be used by some of those elements that would conflate Jews with the state of Israel either way.

    While the IHRC itself speaks of not equating anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism [it would after all make a sizeable number of Jews anti-Semites!] some of the examples would make criticism of actions of the Israeli government problematic. And of course if the examples were to be applied retroactively it would mean a lot of people on the left of the party would fall foul to the letter of the examples.

    I think it is unfortunate and insensitive that some have compared the activities of the state of Israel in its annexing of Palestinian territories with the Nazis, but is it necessarily anti-Semitic? Again some Jews would also fall foul of that.

    There's also the questions over discussion of Jewish influence - particularly the lobby in the US. Again making that forbidden would suit the Zionist lobbies and stifle legitimate criticism any of the internationally illegal activities of the Israeli administration in the Labour Party.

    There is little doubt the neo-liberal press [for example the BBC, the Guardian] are seeing this as a useful tool to undermine socialism within the Labour Party after their previous attempts failed so spectacularly.

    That of course is not to say there is no anti-Semitism in the Labour Party, or racism in general and some will mix up anti-Zionism [or more accurately the state of Israel and its activities and the Jewish lobbies] and an irrational hatred of all Jews.

    Applying that as a stick to beat the current leadership is a dangerous game and it's the sort of manipulation of the narrative which raises suspicion of the media, which they in turn will bleat about when it opens the door to 'alt facts'.

    It's a shitty game; and like those who falsely cry rape, ultimately they undermine the cause they ostensibly espouse - in this case the genuine fight against racism in all its forms.
    Well said.

    This is (I think) a pretty good article on the Labour antisemitism issue. But there's always a chance I could be an antisemite...

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/writing...sm-to-britain/

    I do recall seeing an independent survey recently that analysed attitudes within the main parties and found that antisemitic attitudes within the Labour party were well below those in UKIP and The Conservatives and only a little above the LibDems.
    Soon oh soon the light, Pass within and soothe this endless night, And wait here for you, Our reason to be here...

  12. #492
    Yes Old Fart Chris2210's Avatar
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    Re: Brexit voters, please pay attention!!

    That’s a great article - thanks for linking.

  13. #493
    SR Mega Yesfan RelayerI's Avatar
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    Re: Brexit voters, please pay attention!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2210 View Post
    That’s a great article - thanks for linking.
    You're welcome.

    It's kind of nice to read something devoid of the usual histrionics. So I'd avoid the comments section...
    Soon oh soon the light, Pass within and soothe this endless night, And wait here for you, Our reason to be here...





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