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Thread: C'mon, and show some guts!

  1. #141
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    Re: C'mon, and show some guts!

    John Lennon.

    There, I said it.

    My teenage idol.

    A working class hero who never had a job, a limousine liberal who shielded himself from the very people he claimed to be one of. Wife-beater—just ask Cynthia, just ask Yoko. Shitty father—just ask Julian.

    As for music...sure, he wrote a few songs that were Beatles classics, but couldn't do it without the others, especially Paul, either as partners or adversaries. Proof: his solo albums are trite at best, ---- at worst.

    I'm tipping my own sacred cow here, folks. John Lennon was a fraud. And The Legendary Alan White™ is legendary chiefly for "Imagine" and Live Peace in Toronto.

    Let's bake some bread.
    Fun Fact: Your average university's school of music has jazz and classical guitar students whose names you'll never hear of, but who nonetheless make the Howe vs Rabin debate pretty pointless.

  2. #142
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    Re: C'mon, and show some guts!

    Quote Originally Posted by innergrove63 View Post
    John Lennon.

    There, I said it.

    My teenage idol.

    A working class hero who never had a job, a limousine liberal who shielded himself from the very people he claimed to be one of. Wife-beater—just ask Cynthia, just ask Yoko. Shitty father—just ask Julian.

    As for music...sure, he wrote a few songs that were Beatles classics, but couldn't do it without the others, especially Paul, either as partners or adversaries. Proof: his solo albums are trite at best, ---- at worst.

    I'm tipping my own sacred cow here, folks. John Lennon was a fraud. And The Legendary Alan White™ is legendary chiefly for "Imagine" and Live Peace in Toronto.

    Let's bake some bread.
    He was certainly complex, no doubt about that.

  3. #143
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    Re: C'mon, and show some guts!

    Regarding Lennon and others: We are all human. And lucky if some of our hero's and influences are even close to cool or normal... Kind of depends on the dynamics and situation. Had a few surprise big time let downs, and a few great surprises!

    Regarding the OP, the only prog bands I like are YES, a lot of King Crimson, Eno, Rush, Radiohead, Peter Gabriel, some Genesis, and a few Gentle Giant. The newer bands sound so recycled prog formula. Yes has that unique magic quality like no other... Even if a few of the guys are dick's or phony. The music IS the magic, not whatever he did or said outside the music.

    Last edited by somissound; 10-07-2017 at 03:42 AM.

  4. #144
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    Re: C'mon, and show some guts!

    Sometimes it's best not to delve too deeply into the personalities of your musical idols, lest it spoil your enjoyment of the music.

    Bob Lind had this to say about Don McLean: "His music used to be able to make me cry. But that was before I met the man." He went on to say that he was not impressed at all when they met face to face, in fact he implied that McLean was basically an arsehole.

    You might write this off, except that in the same posting Lind had already admitted that in his early days he himself was pretty toxic to work with. He seems to let no opportunity slip to criticise his younger self. He also presented a long list of fellow musicians of whom he was in awe and admiration, both at the musical level and the personal. Only Don McLean came in for criticism. For him to say that about McLean makes me think there must have been at least some substance behind it.

    I don't let that spoil my enjoyment of the American Pie album. The allegations may be true, they may not, he could have been having a rotten week and took it out on Lind, and anyway people change over time, but the music is great and is timeless.

    Do you really want to know that your favourite artist happens to support that dreadful political party that you hate? It shouldn't affect the music, not unless their lyrics actually project views that you personally find abhorrent.

  5. #145
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    Re: C'mon, and show some guts!

    I suppose it's a weakness of mine that if I'm into an artist then I'm into the whole package, not just the music they make but who they are as a person. And while my musical heroes are certainly no saints - Miles Davis, Frank Sinatra and Frank Zappa - they are still essentially good people who were burdened with talent that cannot be measured by conventional terms.

    The most decent, honest-to-goodness musician I have ever met and spoken too, though, is Phil Collins. This is a view that is shared by everyone who meets the man, from fellow musicians to the maid who changes the bed in his hotel room. Think what you want about his music but as a man he is disarmingly down-to-earth and a true credit to his upbringing. As he said himself - and I'm paraphrasing an interview that he gave on the Going Live Saturday morning show circa 1989 "The chances of you meeting your heroes is pretty slim but if you do meet them, it can be disappointing if they come across as a bit of a jerk". He is mindful that the briefest encounter with someone he is unlikely to meet again can mean more to them than it does to him.

    It is a truism in my line of work that the smaller the talent the bigger the ego. I have seen more singers than I would like to have seen, behaving in a boorish and self-important manner (and yes I have heard that deathless phrase "Do you know who I am?" uttered more than a few times) towards the people who have hired them. And I have gone wildly off-topic here! Sorry about that, folk.

  6. #146
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    Re: C'mon, and show some guts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Discount Ministry View Post
    Know what, I have a slight addiction to 'Mustapha'.
    I love it.

  7. #147
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    Re: C'mon, and show some guts!

    Quote Originally Posted by innergrove63 View Post
    John Lennon.

    There, I said it.

    My teenage idol.

    A working class hero who never had a job, a limousine liberal who shielded himself from the very people he claimed to be one of. Wife-beater—just ask Cynthia, just ask Yoko. Shitty father—just ask Julian.

    As for music...sure, he wrote a few songs that were Beatles classics, but couldn't do it without the others, especially Paul, either as partners or adversaries. Proof: his solo albums are trite at best, ---- at worst.

    I'm tipping my own sacred cow here, folks. John Lennon was a fraud...
    I was searching the internet for a quote where, as I recall, in response to someone asking about the song, "Imagine", where John sang "imagine no possessions" yet he had so much vast wealth, and he replied something like (I paraphrase), "It's just a song." I couldn't find the quote.

    But I stumbled upon this fascinating video clip. It first starts with a helicopter camera shot of John and Yoko's mansion, with Yoko narrating to set up the the scene that starts at the :22 mark where John meets a homeless guy who has been wandering on the estates grounds, Very interesting, and a tiny bit that is so funny you would think it was scripted - the part when the homeless guy attributes a Paul McCartney written lyric to being written by John.



    As John said, "I'm just a guy who writes songs." As a huge fans of the Beatles music, Lennon included, I keep that in mind. It applies to all music artists, as a matter of fact. I think of the song "Imagine" album and think how much lyrical garbage, the title track in particular (from my vantage point on life), was on there, and yet the music was, for at least half of the songs on the album, good stuff.

  8. #148
    Yes, there is a Santa Claus! YesNY's Avatar
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    Re: C'mon, and show some guts!

    Quote Originally Posted by bob_32_116 View Post
    ...Do you really want to know that your favourite artist happens to support that dreadful political party that you hate? It shouldn't affect the music, not unless their lyrics actually project views that you personally find abhorrent...
    Try not to, unless it is something that really, big time, offends me.

    Anyway, how did you all enjoy all those classic Yes albums being sung by a left sided politically singer (Jon Anderson) with the keyboardist being a Tory (Rick Wakeman)?

    My take is songwriters and musicians are no wiser than their listeners. That is why I can enjoy a Neil Young song and then a Lynyrd Skynyrd song. Everyone remembers Ronnie Van Zandt sing in Sweet Home Alabama, "I hope Neil Young will remember a southern man don't need him around anyhow." But people sometimes forget that they were both big admirers of each other's music.

  9. #149
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    Re: C'mon, and show some guts!

    WOW ! I'm truely shocked by the distaste for so much of the music, and musicians listed !! Sure, I get it . . . so many artists are over-rated and the Industry builds their 'pet projects' to suit; but if YES is as far as you can reach, you're missing out on some really good music. My guess is far too many of you were not there when the music came out ? How can one appreciate Frank Zappa fronting 'The Mothers of Invention' if you weren't there ? Or 'The Who' performing "Sell Out" ?? I could go on. . . and on !!
    I realize we all enjoy what we enjoy, but Man; it's no wonder this site is a constant pissing match !!
    "Failure to prepare is preparing for Failure"-John R. Wooden





  10. #150
    That can is empty. Discount Ministry's Avatar
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    Re: C'mon, and show some guts!

    I've already posted a picture of Slim Goodbody somewhere around hear.

    Nothing is misguided to it's creators, only the recipients who didn't want the expectation ruined for them.

  11. #151
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    Re: C'mon, and show some guts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Discount Ministry View Post
    I've already posted a picture of Slim Goodbody somewhere around hear.
    good grief haven't heard that name in a while... I saw that dude live believe it or not!

    I think I was in 8th or 9th grade and one of my classes took a field trip to NYC to see, and be a part of the audience of the Bill Boggs show back in the early 80's... and Mr. Slim Goodbody was on.

    strange days... very strange.

    still undefined

  12. #152
    Insane Yesfan ragtime's Avatar
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    Re: C'mon, and show some guts!

    Quote Originally Posted by ANTIOCH View Post
    WOW ! I'm truely shocked by the distaste for so much of the music, and musicians listed !! Sure, I get it . . . so many artists are over-rated and the Industry builds their 'pet projects' to suit; but if YES is as far as you can reach, you're missing out on some really good music. My guess is far too many of you were not there when the music came out ? How can one appreciate Frank Zappa fronting 'The Mothers of Invention' if you weren't there ? Or 'The Who' performing "Sell Out" ?? I could go on. . . and on !!
    I realize we all enjoy what we enjoy, but Man; it's no wonder this site is a constant pissing match !!
    You have to remember that this thread is an invitation to post about what you don't like and to be a little counter cultural among prog fans. Also, there will be as many artists that people do like as they don't like. Thinking that Zappa is self-indulgent drivel ;-) doesn't mean I don't like GG, whereas someone else might feel the opposite. I don't like later Bowie and feel he is only adulated out of hipster fashion, but I do enjoy a very wide range of music and there's lots of stuff I love that goes way beyond Yes and well outside the "progressive rock" genre. It just shows that there's no single 'type' of Yes fan, which is fine.
    Universe University

  13. #153
    Insane Yesfan ragtime's Avatar
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    Re: C'mon, and show some guts!

    Quote Originally Posted by YesNY View Post
    I was searching the internet for a quote where, as I recall, in response to someone asking about the song, "Imagine", where John sang "imagine no possessions" yet he had so much vast wealth, and he replied something like (I paraphrase), "It's just a song." I couldn't find the quote.

    But I stumbled upon this fascinating video clip. It first starts with a helicopter camera shot of John and Yoko's mansion, with Yoko narrating to set up the the scene that starts at the :22 mark where John meets a homeless guy who has been wandering on the estates grounds, Very interesting, and a tiny bit that is so funny you would think it was scripted - the part when the homeless guy attributes a Paul McCartney written lyric to being written by John.



    As John said, "I'm just a guy who writes songs." As a huge fans of the Beatles music, Lennon included, I keep that in mind. It applies to all music artists, as a matter of fact. I think of the song "Imagine" album and think how much lyrical garbage, the title track in particular (from my vantage point on life), was on there, and yet the music was, for at least half of the songs on the album, good stuff.

    This shows the side of Lennon which he didn't display all the time. He could be very difficult and nasty sometimes, but this is a very humble, rational and caring encounter. He's very honest and realistic about the songs and their (relative lack of) significance. On the the theme of this thread, I think Imagine is vastly overrated musically and the lyrics are lazy and philosophical self-contradictory. I get fed up wit it being billed as one of the greatest songs ever written etc. etc. But I suspect John may have agreed, or at least taken that in good part. Here is he is seen being very patient and kind with someone with clear mental issues and social needs. This sort of thing is why Dylan hides from the public and hates being put on a pedestal by interviewers who call him "the voice of a generation" etc. It's good to see John being just a normal bloke - and with his hair uncombed - on his own doorstep dealing gently with a rather broken human being. I think it's when people got pompous with him that he got vicious with them.
    Universe University

  14. #154
    SR Mega Yesfan Mr. Holland's Avatar
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    Re: C'mon, and show some guts!

    Quote Originally Posted by PerpetualTrooper View Post
    I suppose it's a weakness of mine that if I'm into an artist then I'm into the whole package, not just the music they make but who they are as a person. And while my musical heroes are certainly no saints - Miles Davis, Frank Sinatra and Frank Zappa - they are still essentially good people who were burdened with talent that cannot be measured by conventional terms.

    The most decent, honest-to-goodness musician I have ever met and spoken too, though, is Phil Collins. This is a view that is shared by everyone who meets the man, from fellow musicians to the maid who changes the bed in his hotel room. Think what you want about his music but as a man he is disarmingly down-to-earth and a true credit to his upbringing. As he said himself - and I'm paraphrasing an interview that he gave on the Going Live Saturday morning show circa 1989 "The chances of you meeting your heroes is pretty slim but if you do meet them, it can be disappointing if they come across as a bit of a jerk". He is mindful that the briefest encounter with someone he is unlikely to meet again can mean more to them than it does to him.

    It is a truism in my line of work that the smaller the talent the bigger the ego. I have seen more singers than I would like to have seen, behaving in a boorish and self-important manner (and yes I have heard that deathless phrase "Do you know who I am?" uttered more than a few times) towards the people who have hired them. And I have gone wildly off-topic here! Sorry about that, folk.
    Sorry to interrupt the thread, but this reminds me of time a son of a Dutch celebrity was in a shop I worked and in an arrogant manner said to a co-worker of mine "Do you know who my father is?", to which my co-worker, who was absolutely not impressed, replied very witty, "perhaps you should ask your mother", leaving the fellow with a stunned look on his face......
    ReAwaken (after the Bethlehem Sands concert 2016):
    Sometimes in music, the songs can transcend the band members themselves - I think Yes is such a band.

  15. #155
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    Re: C'mon, and show some guts!

    Quote Originally Posted by ragtime View Post
    You have to remember that this thread is an invitation to post about what you don't like and to be a little counter cultural among prog fans. Also, there will be as many artists that people do like as they don't like. Thinking that Zappa is self-indulgent drivel ;-) doesn't mean I don't like GG, whereas someone else might feel the opposite. I don't like later Bowie and feel he is only adulated out of hipster fashion, but I do enjoy a very wide range of music and there's lots of stuff I love that goes way beyond Yes and well outside the "progressive rock" genre. It just shows that there's no single 'type' of Yes fan, which is fine.
    Yes, you are right. I think some of the more raw responses overwhelmed my reasoning and tainted my perception !?
    "Failure to prepare is preparing for Failure"-John R. Wooden

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    Re: C'mon, and show some guts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Apollo 77 View Post
    Queen. To be more precise, post 'A Day At The Races' Queen. Apart from a couple tracks on each album since, their music leaves me cold. I particularly dislike what I call 'radio play' Queen, the usual suspects - 'Crazy Little Thing Called Love', ' I Want To Break Free' etc. Ask Queen fans who joined the bandwagon at 'Night At The Opera' about the 1st three albums and you're likely to be met with a blank look. If you actually played ​those albums to them, chances are they couldn't relate to them. In summary, most up to and including ADATR is very good/excellent, most after this is meh/terrible commercial pap. Hugh
    Oh dear. I think I like/love most all of Queen's stuff. I adore Hot Space but I still love the early stuff too. My first Queen album? The Game, although I was aware of them from about 75/76.
    Why do you do what you do to me?

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    Re: C'mon, and show some guts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Frumious B View Post
    I can’t take Gentle Giant.
    Too big for you?

    Actually I find them to be tosh too.
    Not a fan of Tull either.
    Beardfish. Gag.
    Most any band with a Teutonic sounding name...
    Why do you do what you do to me?

  18. #158
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    Re: C'mon, and show some guts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Apollo 77 View Post
    Queen. To be more precise, post 'A Day At The Races' Queen. Apart from a couple tracks on each album since, their music leaves me cold. I particularly dislike what I call 'radio play' Queen, the usual suspects - 'Crazy Little Thing Called Love', ' I Want To Break Free' etc. Ask Queen fans who joined the bandwagon at 'Night At The Opera' about the 1st three albums and you're likely to be met with a blank look. If you actually played ​those albums to them, chances are they couldn't relate to them. In summary, most up to and including ADATR is very good/excellent, most after this is meh/terrible commercial pap. Hugh
    I'm with you, I think.......If we're looking at not liking eras of a band:

    U2 - Don't really listen to or care for anything after Achtung Baby. Just a song here and there, and even then, it's just such samey lukewarm swill.

    Queen:
    Queen II ***** Perfect album
    Sheer Heart Attack ****
    A Night at the Opera ***** Perfect album
    A Day At the Races ****
    Jazz ****
    A Kind of Magic ***
    Innuendo ***

    None others rise above **. The all have a couple songs which are okay, but not "all that"
    Drifting endlessly,

    Peace, SteveR


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  19. #159
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    Re: C'mon, and show some guts!

    Rem

  20. #160
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    Re: C'mon, and show some guts!

    I mostly just don't get the whole "Canterbury scene" thing. Almost without exception, whenever I have heard a piece and seen it described as Canterbury prog, I have found it to be a pointless piece of noodling. Just because something is original and different does not necessarily make it great to listen to.

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