Steve Howe on Jon and Rick ever returning to Yes.....

[EtherReal]

Unfortunately, I do not think that there are too many great tours with the present core of HSW over the coming years given their present ages and the things that go along with those ages.

The fact it will be 40 years since I saw a then dysfunctional "classic line-up" plod through that show I am in awe that they are still going at it even if you have to insert a *more or less after such a statement. If ever there was a band that should have blown up in technicolour or faded into a sunset this is it. But here they are *more or less surpassing the Dorsey Bands playing to two generations of fans.

[dallasman]

It is hypocritical of him to talk like that, no question. There's been a lot of talk along those lines for years, and still, certain albums are completely overlooked. I don't get why he can't just admit that there are several albums he doesn't care for, but once in a while he'll compromise. He makes it out like there's been a revolution, and then mentions America (in the set on/off since 1996) and Awaken (on/off since '91). What the hell does it prove that those happen to be back in the set now? From other quotes on the matter, the gist of the "new setlist attitude" seems to to be that, after about 20 tours, they're talking about replacing Owner as their token 80s song.

I'm fine with ignoring albums that aren't my favourites, either. But just as a matter of principle: Those are also some unfortunate fans' favourite albums; they should get a look-in every now and then. If a radical rearrangement is needed, so be it. One of the few 80s/90s tracks I see potential in, is Love Will Find A Way. It has some slide parts for Steve, an acoustic for Jon D., some really good hooks, it was sort of a hit...seems worth a try.

As a general rule, though, they can save the Rabin stuff for a reunion special and stay focused on more recent output (maybe some solo/side project songs) to supplement the 70s classics. There are still some of those we haven't heard in decades, too.

And just once, I'd like to hear Steve say straight out that he is incapable of playing many of Rabin's parts, rather than it just being a matter of "different styles". It is definitely that, too, but it's also a question of chops. When he joined, Trevor could duplicate all of Steve's parts at double speed, with embellishments. Steve struggles to even play the OOALH riff convincingly, let alone the solo. And the fact that he then felt it necessary to tack on a pedestrian solo at the end to compensate, also smells like ego-adjustment issues to me. If he now says he embraces the idea of performing Rabin's songs in a new way, I'll believe it when I hear it.

[luvyesmusic]

Howe should put it all to rest by coming out on stage in black leather pants and a Gibson flying V guitar and playing "real love" from the Talk album..

max volume.. full distortion.. and a whammy bar "dive" in the solo that would shock even Trevor Rabin..

I would love to see Steve with a flying V guitar or better yet with Michael Schenker on stage with him, too.

[josuev80]

That should have read 2-3 years....if 32 years would be true, a tour by then would probably be called 'wheelchair to the edge'....LOL

They likely would be all dead and buried except for Davison.

[Mr. Holland]

They likely would be all dead and buried except for Davison.

I know, but I thought that would be such a negative name for the album.....

[Mr. Holland]

It is hypocritical of him to talk like that, no question. There's been a lot of talk along those lines for years, and still, certain albums are completely overlooked. I don't get why he can't just admit that there are several albums he doesn't care for, but once in a while he'll compromise. He makes it out like there's been a revolution, and then mentions America (in the set on/off since 1996) and Awaken (on/off since '91). What the hell does it prove that those happen to be back in the set now? From other quotes on the matter, the gist of the "new setlist attitude" seems to to be that, after about 20 tours, they're talking about replacing Owner as their token 80s song.

I'm fine with ignoring albums that aren't my favourites, either. But just as a matter of principle: Those are also some unfortunate fans' favourite albums; they should get a look-in every now and then. If a radical rearrangement is needed, so be it. One of the few 80s/90s tracks I see potential in, is Love Will Find A Way. It has some slide parts for Steve, an acoustic for Jon D., some really good hooks, it was sort of a hit...seems worth a try.

As a general rule, though, they can save the Rabin stuff for a reunion special and stay focused on more recent output (maybe some solo/side project songs) to supplement the 70s classics. There are still some of those we haven't heard in decades, too.

And just once, I'd like to hear Steve say straight out that he is incapable of playing many of Rabin's parts, rather than it just being a matter of "different styles". It is definitely that, too, but it's also a question of chops. When he joined, Trevor could duplicate all of Steve's parts at double speed, with embellishments. Steve struggles to even play the OOALH riff convincingly, let alone the solo. And the fact that he then felt it necessary to tack on a pedestrian solo at the end to compensate, also smells like ego-adjustment issues to me. If he now says he embraces the idea of performing Rabin's songs in a new way, I'll believe it when I hear it.

Good post!

[Dances w/PURPLE]

We are realistic people, so in the sense of realism, for Yes to evolve, we had to be a strong group and we had to have people who were committed to it to warrant a position in the band. In other words, if you come in and say to Yes, “I play the drums but in Yes I am going to play the bongos.” We would say, “But we want a drummer.”

I read STRONG people who are able to keep up with a touring schedule and perform those dates without undue stress on them physically.

[/QUOTE]What Yes needs now, and we’ve proved this by doing Awaken and America, is that everybody in this group needs to accept that we look at the entire career of this group. We don’t just look at little pockets when certain people were in the group—we don’t do that anymore.[/QUOTE]

As they shouldn't, the group has evolved over the years, this time is not different. Not focusing on one album is a great plan but will probably make some era fans disgruntled...as seen by the list of preferred songs this line up should perform.

[/QUOTE]It is not about Jon and Rick now. It is about who can do these tours and who can perform the repertoire from 1968 to 2012. If you can do that then you have an opportunity to be in Yes. [/QUOTE]

Who can sing the songs! There ya go.

[Olorin]

And just once, I'd like to hear Steve say straight out that he is incapable of playing many of Rabin's parts, rather than it just being a matter of "different styles".

I think that will be a cold day in hell....

Steve struggles to even play the OOALH riff convincingly, let alone the solo. And the fact that he then felt it necessary to tack on a pedestrian solo at the end to compensate, also smells like ego-adjustment issues to me. If he now says he embraces the idea of performing Rabin's songs in a new way, I'll believe it when I hear it.

For all his supposed openness, it's pretty obvious he still doesn't care for the YesWest material and while he will condescend to play it, he has zero interest in giving a faithful rendition, even when he gets to add his own solo later.

[RelayerI]

For all his supposed openness, it's pretty obvious he still doesn't care for the YesWest material and while he will condescend to play it, he has zero interest in giving a faithful rendition, even when he gets to add his own solo later.

Steve CAN'T play the Rabin stuff right. The conventional blues based discipline of guitar is simply alien to him. He can, however, play a decent version if he puts his mind to it - on the last UK tour he played Owner as if he actually meant it. It wasn't exactly a faithful rendition, but it was O.K.

I prefer Steve playing his own parts - he's a unique player and I actually don't want him to sound like everyone else...

[Punj Lizard]

And just once, I'd like to hear Steve say straight out that he is incapable of playing many of Rabin's parts, rather than it just being a matter of "different styles". It is definitely that, too, but it's also a question of chops. When he joined, Trevor could duplicate all of Steve's parts at double speed, with embellishments.

Trevor could not duplicate Steve's parts because he can't play the way Steve plays. Trevor made a great job of playing Steve's parts, but the major part of Steve's playing is down to his idiosyncratic style, which means even if an undoubtedly accomplished guitarist like Trevor can play Steve's material, he can't duplicate his style, especially in terms of embellishments and solos. The embellishments Trevor added, not to mention the speed with which he plays, meant Steve's material came out sounding like Trevor (or, to be frank, many other guitarists who also sound like Trevor). I've never heard a guitarist play like Steve. Though I've heard many play like Trevor.Would you, just once, like Trevor to come out and say he's incapable of duplicating Steve's idiosyncratic style? I know I wouldn't because it achieves nothing. The two of them are both incredible musicians, both capable of interpreting, but not duplicating the others' material. Steve may have made some strange and undeniably hypocritical comments about the material and what they will and will not play, but ability is irrelevant.

[Mr. Holland]

Steve CAN'T play the Rabin stuff right. The conventional blues based discipline of guitar is simply alien to him. He can, however, play a decent version if he puts his mind to it - on the last UK tour he played Owner as if he actually meant it. It wasn't exactly a faithful rendition, but it was O.K.

I prefer Steve playing his own parts - he's a unique player and I actually don't want him to sound like everyone else...

There will always be parts in songs that can be improvised and parts of songs that are so characteristic for that particular song that it needs to be played that way exactly. I listened to a 90125 tour bootleg (Toledo March 1984) the other day and Rabin playing the classic Yes stuff actually got that, he seemed to know exactly where to improvise and where definetly not. I feel Rabin's solo on 'Owner' is so characteristic for that song, that one can't improvise on that, it needs to be played like the original. Improvising on the end section however is no problem. Just my opinion, mind you.

[Mr. Holland]

Trevor could not duplicate Steve's parts because he can't play the way Steve plays. Trevor made a great job of playing Steve's parts, but the major part of Steve's playing is down to his idiosyncratic style, which means even if an undoubtedly accomplished guitarist like Trevor can play Steve's material, he can't duplicate his style, especially in terms of embellishments and solos. The embellishments Trevor added, not to mention the speed with which he plays, meant Steve's material came out sounding like Trevor (or, to be frank, many other guitarists who also sound like Trevor). I've never heard a guitarist play like Steve. Though I've heard many play like Trevor.Would you, just once, like Trevor to come out and say he's incapable of duplicating Steve's idiosyncratic style? I know I wouldn't because it achieves nothing. The two of them are both incredible musicians, both capable of interpreting, but not duplicating the others' material. Steve may have made some strange and undeniably hypocritical comments about the material and what they will and will not play, but ability is irrelevant.

...of course each player has it's own distinctive sound. However, certainly at the beginning of the 90125 tour (the Toledo bootleg I mentioned was only the 3rd concert) Rabin did play Howe's parts to the note on some of the classic songs like for instance AYAI. YIND is also a much shorter version that later on in the tour and the solo for instance much more held back then in later days and on for instance on the Union tour, and the main parts are also played to the note. Maybe Rabin didn't feel comfortable enough in the beginning to deviate from main structure and his confidence grew along the 90125 tour, because later on he made the older songs much more his own. But my point is; Trevor was sure capable of duplicating Steve's parts to the note and I'm not too sure the other way around.

[Mr. Holland]

One other thing came to mind: people often claim that Steve and his style is so unique compared to Rabin and there's only one like Steve and his style....but if so then why did Jimmy Haun on Union such an impacable job of imitating Steve that most people did not even hear it wasn't Steve untill they were told?!........

[Punj Lizard]

Good point Arno - not that I'd know because I really do not like that album and find it hard to listen to. Mind you, do you think that's Haun's natural style, or was he intentionally imitating Steve?

[Mr. Holland]

Good point Arno - not that I'd know because I really do not like that album and find it hard to listen to. Mind you, do you think that's Haun's natural style, or was he intentionally imitating Steve?

He was intentionally imitating Steve, because that was what asked of him by Elias/Anderson. On the first two Circa: albums you can hear his own style is definetly different.

One more thing on Steve Howe: don't get me wrong, I think he's a great player and has done a lot of great stuff, especially with Yes and I love him. It's just when people use the 'he's one of a kind/his style is so unique and can't be imitated' argument to 'prove' he is a better guitarist then Trevor Rabin, I find it sort of a nonsense argument. Just because no guitarists, or at least not many, have chosen to play in the same style as Steve, as where Rabin's style or the more heavy rock style is more common, doesn't make Steve a better guitarist perse. It only proves that Steve's style isn't as attractive to many guitarplayers as Rabin's style is, but it doesn't say squad about technical ability or talent IMO.

[dallasman]

Trevor could not duplicate Steve's parts because he can't play the way Steve plays. Trevor made a great job of playing Steve's parts, but the major part of Steve's playing is down to his idiosyncratic style, which means even if an undoubtedly accomplished guitarist like Trevor can play Steve's material, he can't duplicate his style, especially in terms of embellishments and solos. The embellishments Trevor added, not to mention the speed with which he plays, meant Steve's material came out sounding like Trevor (or, to be frank, many other guitarists who also sound like Trevor). I've never heard a guitarist play like Steve. Though I've heard many play like Trevor.Would you, just once, like Trevor to come out and say he's incapable of duplicating Steve's idiosyncratic style? I know I wouldn't because it achieves nothing. The two of them are both incredible musicians, both capable of interpreting, but not duplicating the others' material. Steve may have made some strange and undeniably hypocritical comments about the material and what they will and will not play, but ability is irrelevant.

Like I said, it is a matter of different styles too, absolutely. That's one of the many things you, I, Steve and Trevor all agree on. We also agree that Trevor made YIND and ST completely sound like him, and vice versa for Steve and Owner. But that doesn't mean they're equally proficient at their instrument, and that they would be equally good at playing a demanding guitar part.

It's not an absolute measurement of artistic worth, but Trevor can play faster than Steve, and more precisely. That Al DiMeola lick that Rabin used to play in every solo? Steve couldn't play something like that to save his wife and kids. He used to do a similar thing in YIND, that peaked at about 1/3 of the speed Trev does it at. I feel a petty a-hole for pointing it out, but that's just the way it is. If Howe could shred like Rabin, we would have heard it by now.

I've always preferred Steve and always will, both his style and the albums he played on. But I play the guitar myself, and I can't help noticing that Trevor's capabilities go way beyond Steve's in many respects. That doesn't affect my taste in music at all, it's just a fact. The relative sloppiness is part of Steve's style. And it is relative; Steve is a very good guitar player by anyone's standards. It's just that Trevor used to practice ten hours a day from about age 4 and taught himself to score for orchestras in his teens. That kind of hard work and dedication pays off. He's soo professional, as Zappa would say.

[dallasman]

There will always be parts in songs that can be improvised and parts of songs that are so characteristic for that particular song that it needs to be played that way exactly. I listened to a 90125 tour bootleg (Toledo March 1984) the other day and Rabin playing the classic Yes stuff actually got that, he seemed to know exactly where to improvise and where definetly not.

First in a series of excellent posts, there Mr Holland!

Like I said in my previous post, I am a "Trooper", but the stuff that's grown the most on me over the years is the best parts of the Rabin era. And that includes some of what I previously thought sacrilege, Trevorizing the classics. But I had sort of an epiphany too once when hearing the 1988 AYAI in a more receptive state of mind. Without Steve or Rick, they still make it powerful and that's in large part thanks to Trevor's good taste. Like you say, he was good at keeping the important bits, which is a compliment to Steve, too.

[bicko]

You know something guys. In the loooooonnng history of Rabin v Howe arguements these last couple of posts have been some of the best I've ever read. May I congratulate you Mr Holland and dallasman for some excellenty reasoned arguments.

[Mr. Holland]

I've found something for Steve to watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMFP-...feature=fvwrel

Joke, joke!....LOL

[Mr. Holland]

Like I said, it is a matter of different styles too, absolutely. That's one of the many things you, I, Steve and Trevor all agree on. We also agree that Trevor made YIND and ST completely sound like him, and vice versa for Steve and Owner. But that doesn't mean they're equally proficient at their instrument, and that they would be equally good at playing a demanding guitar part.

It's not an absolute measurement of artistic worth, but Trevor can play faster than Steve, and more precisely. That Al DiMeola lick that Rabin used to play in every solo? Steve couldn't play something like that to save his wife and kids. He used to do a similar thing in YIND, that peaked at about 1/3 of the speed Trev does it at. I feel a petty a-hole for pointing it out, but that's just the way it is. If Howe could shred like Rabin, we would have heard it by now.

I've always preferred Steve and always will, both his style and the albums he played on. But I play the guitar myself, and I can't help noticing that Trevor's capabilities go way beyond Steve's in many respects. That doesn't affect my taste in music at all, it's just a fact. The relative sloppiness is part of Steve's style. And it is relative; Steve is a very good guitar player by anyone's standards. It's just that Trevor used to practice ten hours a day from about age 4 and taught himself to score for orchestras in his teens. That kind of hard work and dedication pays off. He's soo professional, as Zappa would say.

As long as we're putting feathers up each other's........LOL.....excellent post this^^