Anderson, Squire, Wakeman, Howe and White. Will it happen again?

[xlink_nz]

His latest idea's for songs he put forward to the band in 2008, where idea's that, according to Howe, failed to interest the rest of the band, so apparently musically it wouldn't add much value and that the interpersonal relationships are pretty tense is no secret either.

This comes as no surprise to me. It could well be that the material Anderson 'submitted' to HSW was half hearted as he had no genuine interest in submitting quality to them at that time. I think it was more that they possibly nagged/insisted material from him or at least expected when he had no real interest or desire. Anderson imho can still produce the goods under the right circumstances and environment. In 2008 the relationship with YES was certainly in my view not the right environment

Back on topic - Squire & White and Anderson all on record recently numerous times stating being open to working together again but I feel the planets are going to need to come into alignment i.e. the right circumstances

[smatt]

I would never discoutn Jon A. as a songwriter.. Although most of what he's done in the lst 10 or so years misses the mark with myself.... You never know when a songwriter is going to "Hit it"..... I haven't heard what Jon D. can do either, at least within the context of Yes, with the other members.... You never know....

Jon D. is doing a phenominal job on all cases with the live act...... The whole band is I think... BUt Jon D. still isn't Jon Anderson... And I think he would whole heartedly agree with that... Jon Anderson is indeed a unique talent..... It's still not Jon Anderson on that stage with Yes... But it's a pretty damned good version of Yes nevertheless...

[Mr. Holland]

Back on topic - Squire & White and Anderson all on record recently numerous times stating being open to working together again but I feel the planets are going to need to come into alignment i.e. the right circumstances

I personally think that Squire has been let's say 'politically correct' in a lot of interviews, contrary to Howe who has been more frank. I think Squire realizes very well how important Anderson is to most yes fans and is carefull not to rub the fans the wrong way. However I think the latest comments of bandmembers are becoming more honest.

Squire (July 2012): You know, I’ve never closed the door on doing something wi[th Anderson] again. But we’d have to see how that could be done. The setting would have to be right for that to occur, because it would be a shame to build up a new Yes lineup with Jon Davison and then bring Jon Anderson back in. That would make what we’re doing now seem like a secondary project. Even if we had him just in for a few dates, the business side would be pressuring us: Can you do more, can you do an album? It just may not ever happen. But, having said that, I haven’t closed my mind to it.

White (mid-June 2012): Who knows? One time, hopefully, we can, erm... get back together with Jon. Whether it'd be for a just a few specialised kind of... y'know, the shows are an occasion, and not much like a whole tour, will probably be the case [...] I'm still great friends with Jon. And he's just happy doing his solo thing.

To me it certainly doesn't seem they are bursting with enthousiasm to get back with Anderson......

[xlink_nz]

I personally think that Squire has been let's say 'politically correct' in a lot of interviews, contrary to Howe who has been more frank. I think Squire realizes very well how important Anderson is to most yes fans and is carefull not to rub the fans the wrong way. However I think the latest comments of bandmembers are becoming more honest.

Squire (July 2012): You know, I’ve never closed the door on doing something wi[th Anderson] again. But we’d have to see how that could be done. The setting would have to be right for that to occur, because it would be a shame to build up a new Yes lineup with Jon Davison and then bring Jon Anderson back in. That would make what we’re doing now seem like a secondary project. Even if we had him just in for a few dates, the business side would be pressuring us: Can you do more, can you do an album? It just may not ever happen. But, having said that, I haven’t closed my mind to it.

White (mid-June 2012): Who knows? One time, hopefully, we can, erm... get back together with Jon. Whether it'd be for a just a few specialised kind of... y'know, the shows are an occasion, and not much like a whole tour, will probably be the case [...] I'm still great friends with Jon. And he's just happy doing his solo thing.

To me it certainly doesn't seem they are bursting with enthousiasm to get back with Anderson......

I agree completely. At least these days they are not openly bagging each other [i.e comments since 2008 by Wakemen Snr, Howe and Anderson] I do feel the ice has thawed since the disasters and poor handling by both 'factions' of 2008. 2012 has been much more cordial and the bitterness all but gone.

[VanDerGraaf]

Overall I have to surprise myself and say, I don't want this to happen.

Jon at his best I love. Who is to say whether he can reach those creative heights again? Anything is possible.
It seems though (unfortunately) that Jon and Rick come as a package.
I'd rather see Wakeman stay out of Yes. He adds nothing creatively these days as far as I can see, has no dedication or loyalty to the idea of being a true part of the band, and frankly I don't want to see Geoff vacate the keyboard chair due to Anderson's rejoining stipulating it as a condition.

[bondegezou]

This comes as no surprise to me. It could well be that the material Anderson 'submitted' to HSW was half hearted as he had no genuine interest in submitting quality to them at that time. I think it was more that they possibly nagged/insisted material from him or at least expected when he had no real interest or desire. Anderson imho can still produce the goods under the right circumstances and environment. In 2008 the relationship with YES was certainly in my view not the right environment

I don't see anything to suggest that Anderson was being half-hearted with the material he put to the band in 2008. It appears to be Anderson who was pushing new material at that time, but the others were unimpressed with what he was offering.

Back on topic - Squire & White and Anderson all on record recently numerous times stating being open to working together again but I feel the planets are going to need to come into alignment i.e. the right circumstances

Comments from Squire and White just look like them being politic to me. Squire has a set line, the door's open, blah, blah, but HSW are happy with the current band and aren't looking for a reunion.

Henry

[xlink_nz]

I don't see anything to suggest that Anderson was being half-hearted with the material he put to the band in 2008. It appears to be Anderson who was pushing new material at that time, but the others were unimpressed with what he was offering.

Comments from Squire and White just look like them being politic to me. Squire has a set line, the door's open, blah, blah, but HSW are happy with the current band and aren't looking for a reunion.

Henry

Hi Henry, news to me that it was Anderson pushing new material in 2008, was that the case or do we just don't know ?

In regards to your second comment, I agree hence my comment that the planets would need to come into alignment

That said who would predicted the last few years i.e. Beniot and then him leaving !

[bondegezou]

Hi Henry, news to me that it was Anderson pushing new material in 2008, was that the case or do we just don't know ?

It's not clear, but it was Anderson who most excitedly talked about new material in interviews at the time, while the others didn't, and the descriptions we've heard are of Anderson offering material to the others, not of the others being proactive.

Henry

[Frumious B]

I don't see anything to suggest that Anderson was being half-hearted with the material he put to the band in 2008. It appears to be Anderson who was pushing new material at that time, but the others were unimpressed with what he was offering.



Comments from Squire and White just look like them being politic to me. Squire has a set line, the door's open, blah, blah, but HSW are happy with the current band and aren't looking for a reunion.

Henry

Based on what I saw Tuesday night I think they have what they need to put on a really solid and consistently enjoyable live show. I'd be fine with seeing a set of the caliber I saw Tuesday every year for the next five years or however long the band has left provided they change up the set to spotlight some different classic era material each time. Show up with that and I'll buy a ticket.

That said, I think there's evidence that at least the last year or so with Benoit has wounded them in the marketplace. Based on the size of the crowd at this week's gig I don't think they have the necessary pull any longer to headline venues of that size. It seems to me that they have three main options:

1. Permanently accept headlining smaller venues, which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing at all, at least from a fan's perspective. There are still a lot of great performance spaces out there that they could fill or that they could come very close to filling. Book Yes into the Cobb Energy Performing Arts Center. It's gorgeous. It's classy. It's five minutes from my house.
2. Stick with package tours, coheadlining or, worst case scenario, go out as an opening act. This option would lose me as a customer. Short sets means no deep cuts and, really, a Yes set needs to have sort of a sprawling quality and breathing space in order for the music to do its thing. Some bands can serve themselves really well in a tight 90 minute or 45 minute set. Yes isn't one of those bands.
3. Reshuffle the deck and pull out the reunion card. It might not get them back to 2002-2004 type levels, but it would firm up their grip on headlining the sort of shed and outdoor amphitheater type venues that are the Summer US tour bread and butter for classic rock type artists. I'd be game for this obviously.

[bondegezou]

Tours often sell on the strength of the previous tour. So, the mess of the summer 2011 tour may have hurt sales this time around, but it may also be the case that the good performances and reviews for this summer tour boost sales next time around, negating the need for any of your 3 options.

(So, FB, are you withdrawing your prediction of a reunion by, IIRC, the end of this year? Or was it the end of next...?)

Henry

[Frumious B]

Tours often sell on the strength of the previous tour. So, the mess of the summer 2011 tour may have hurt sales this time around, but it may also be the case that the good performances and reviews for this summer tour boost sales next time around, negating the need for any of your 3 options.

(So, FB, are you withdrawing your prediction of a reunion by, IIRC, the end of this year? Or was it the end of next...?)

Henry

The prediction was for an announcement by the end of 2012, not an actual event. It might be looking less likely, but I'm not withdrawing it just yet based on what I stated above. I'm not convinced that the general, Joe Sixpack, classic rock concert going type crowd takes that sort of nuanced view to arrive at a careful and sober assessment of whether or not they are buying tickets to a show, not in America anyway. They aren't reading reviews here or on PE. It's more along the lines of "Man, I saw Yes without Jon Anderson last Summer and and they sounded bad and that dude couldn't sing. I'm not going again unless they get Jon Anderson back." and that's the end of it. They don't know that Benoit is even gone, replaced by someone better. They only know that Jon Anderson isn't back yet. They sit on their cash or they spend it on Rush tickets. I'm near certain that concert promoters don't take that kind of approach. They aren't going to book a band into a bigger place than their most recent numbers warrant based solely on the hope that fans will read positive reviews and come back. They will bump a band down to smaller places and if they earn their way back into the larger gigs then great. It might be a different set of circumstances if the band had been more proactive with the hook on Benoit. As things stand right now I think what I stated above applies and I hope they go with 1 or 3 and not 2.

[bondegezou]

The prediction was for an announcement by the end of 2012, not an actual event. It might be looking less likely, but I'm not withdrawing it just yet based on what I stated above. I'm not convinced that the general, Joe Sixpack, classic rock concert going type crowd takes that sort of nuanced view to arrive at a careful and sober assessment of whether or not they are buying tickets to a show, not in America anyway. They aren't reading reviews here or on PE. It's more along the lines of "Man, I saw Yes without Jon Anderson last Summer and and they sounded bad and that dude couldn't sing. I'm not going again unless they get Jon Anderson back." and that's the end of it. They don't know that Benoit is even gone, replaced by someone better. They only know that Jon Anderson isn't back yet. They sit on their cash or they spend it on Rush tickets.

Joe Sixpack simply doesn't go to a Yes concert, or if he does, probably doesn't notice who's in the band.

I would suggest that a large proportion of people who do attend Yes shows attend them with some regularity and how good their last show was influences whether they go again. I also suggest that a large proportion of people who do attend Yes shows do know who is in the band and are aware of a change. Precisely how many, I don't know. However, Yes from the Open Your Eyes tour onwards grew audience numbers substantially without major line-up changes. I ask: how did they do that? Your "Joe Sixpack" perspective can't explain that growth.

Henry

[Frumious B]

Joe Sixpack simply doesn't go to a Yes concert, or if he does, probably doesn't notice who's in the band.

I would suggest that a large proportion of people who do attend Yes shows attend them with some regularity and how good their last show was influences whether they go again. I also suggest that a large proportion of people who do attend Yes shows do know who is in the band and are aware of a change. Precisely how many, I don't know. However, Yes from the Open Your Eyes tour onwards grew audience numbers substantially without major line-up changes. I ask: how did they do that? Your "Joe Sixpack" perspective can't explain that growth.

Henry

What you are talking about happened gradually over seven years, not two years, and the base of hardcore fans was unified in supporting the band, at least in regards to their live performances. I don't know that this band has seven more years no matter who is in it, and the divided and missing fans are still an obstacle.

Based on my experience and conversations I'd say the types of fans I'm talking about generally know enough and are sufficiently informed to know which of the old guys and classic members of a particular act are missing, but they don't know the replacements and aren't much interested in learning anything about the replacements. The names of the new guys don't mean anything to them. "New guy" is just "new guy". They might recall seeing, say, Black Sabbath at some point with neither Ozzy nor Dio singing, but they can't name the guy who actually was singing. They know Brian Wilson is back with The Beach Boys, but all they know about The Beach Boys immediately prior to Wilson's return is that it was Mike Love, Bruce Johnston and a bunch of "new guys" except for the annoying Full House actor turning up on drums sometimes.

They're informed, but they don't geek out with this stuff the way we do.

[bondegezou]

What you are talking about happened gradually over seven years, not two years

So, 2/7 of the increase is achievable surely.

Henry

[Frumious B]

So, 2/7 of the increase is achievable surely.

Henry

I don't see them gaining sufficient mojo between now and 2013 to headline next Summer in most of the places they are playing this Summer. If they play those places again next year it will be because of a reunion with Anderson or it will be another Frampton/Styx type deal, which would suck IMHO. I think the alternative is to keep headlining, ditch an opening band entirely and move down the ladder a rung or two in terms of the capacity of the places they are performing. However, I don't think the possibility of the band downsizing to smaller venues need be viewed as a crisis by fans because, like I said, there are some absolutely wonderful, elegant places for live music where a fan can see a great show that are right smack dab in Yes' wheelhouse in terms of their drawing power in the here and now. I'm certainly not talking dive bars, bowling alleys and the county fair.

[Mr. Holland]

Comments from Squire and White just look like them being politic to me. Squire has a set line, the door's open, blah, blah, but HSW are happy with the current band and aren't looking for a reunion.

Henry

My sentiments exactly Henry!

[Mr. Holland]

I don't see them gaining sufficient mojo between now and 2013 to headline next Summer in most of the places they are playing this Summer.

They are headlining now aren't they? PH is the opening act. So they are opening now and getting great reviews and good, positive publicity. Doesn't make sense that they would fare less well next time around, if anything they are about to fare better.

[Frumious B]

They are headlining now aren't they? PH is the opening act. So they are opening now and getting great reviews and good, positive publicity. Doesn't make sense that they would fare less well next time around, if anything they are about to fare better.

When I saw Yes in 2004 it would have been a decent sized crowd for a smaller place, but for a place the size of Phillips Arena it was very noticeably on the thin side. That's no knock on the band. They put on a good show. However, I walked away from that gig KNOWING that it had been the very last time I would hear that music in a place so large. It wasn't exactly the same feeling Tuesday night, but in terms of the size of the crowd it was a similar feeling. The entire general admission lawn was "Closed by Artist's Request" and that kind of thing only happens when they need it to look fuller in reserved. Cool for the folks who got free ticket upgrades. This was even with some pretty substantial ticket discounts available leading up to the show. Even if they could raise attendance by a few percentage points to next year over this year due to good will, good word of mouth and a recovering economy that I still would want the band in a smaller venue with a capacity in the 3,000 to 5,000 seat range if it were my money on the line putting on the show. I don't take them in a larger place again until/unless I see tangible consumer demand that justifies larger.

[Mind Driver]

When I saw Yes in 2004 it would have been a decent sized crowd for a smaller place, but for a place the size of Phillips Arena it was very noticeably on the thin side. That's no knock on the band. They put on a good show. However, I walked away from that gig KNOWING that it had been the very last time I would hear that music in a place so large. It wasn't exactly the same feeling Tuesday night, but in terms of the size of the crowd it was a similar feeling. The entire general admission lawn was "Closed by Artist's Request" and that kind of thing only happens when they need it to look fuller in reserved. Cool for the folks who got free ticket upgrades. This was even with some pretty substantial ticket discounts available leading up to the show. Even if they could raise attendance by a few percentage points to next year over this year due to good will, good word of mouth and a recovering economy that I still would want the band in a smaller venue with a capacity in the 3,000 to 5,000 seat range if it were my money on the line putting on the show. I don't take them in a larger place again until/unless I see tangible consumer demand that justifies larger.

Frum - I grew up in the same county that you live in now. I saw many Yes shows at Chastain and Lakewood from the late 80s through 1999 just before I was transferred by my company to Illinois.

Yes isn't a popular band in Georgia. I was at the same show that you were in 2004 at Philips Arena, and was quite pissed that the ushers were moving people from the upper level to the lower level. The pre-show, which was held at a restaurant adjacent to the venue, sucked when it came to attendance.

Now, let's move that same band to Chicago in 2002. The pre-show was packed. Many of the members on this site were there. They packed the large venue they played in here. They continued to pack the venues here through 2004 because they have a much larger following here.

I do agree that BD has hurt the band. They are playing at a pretty large venue here next Tuesday and it isn't near being sold out. But I will be there, 7th row Steve's side, enjoying the hell out of the new singer.......and Procul Harum.

Too bad the average fan doesn't know JD is now singing for them.

[Frumious B]

Frum - I grew up in the same county that you live in now. I saw many Yes shows at Chastain and Lakewood from the late 80s through 1999 just before I was transferred by my company to Illinois.

Yes isn't a popular band in Georgia. I was at the same show that you were in 2004 at Philips Arena, and was quite pissed that the ushers were moving people from the upper level to the lower level. The pre-show, which was held at a restaurant adjacent to the venue, sucked when it came to attendance.

Now, let's move that same band to Chicago in 2002. The pre-show was packed. Many of the members on this site were there. They packed the large venue they played in here. They continued to pack the venues here through 2004 because they have a much larger following here.

I do agree that BD has hurt the band. They are playing at a pretty large venue here next Tuesday and it isn't near being sold out. But I will be there, 7th row Steve's side, enjoying the hell out of the new singer.......and Procul Harum.

Too bad the average fan doesn't know JD is now singing for them.

I've seen literally every Yes concert in the Atlanta area from Big Generator forward so I was at those same shows. They always had good, strong crowds at Chastain and Lakewood, except for 1994 at Lakewood, which seemed a little light to me, especially compared to the crowd for Union three years earlier. They never closed the lawn. That's for sure. They've come here pretty regularly over the years so I'd hope they are getting something out of it and aren't just gluttons for punishment. I think they made a mistake booking Phillips in 2004, but it was a good show. Tuesday was a good show too, but even with the lawn closed there were still ample empty seats in a place with the same reserved seating capacity as Lakewood, but a smaller lawn. I've also read reports of lighter attendance this year at the Philly area show and others. I thought Philadelphia was Yestown, USA.

But again...it's not like they can't function as a band and play some really cool places operating on a smaller scale. Plenty of bands would kill to play places like, say, the Fox Theater, The Tabernacle and the Cobb Energy Centre and the current Yes could dominate in those type places.