Rush with or without keys

[Rabin105]

I have read a bunch of interviews that say rush is nevwer going back to their synth laden days Do you feel it is a good idea.

[jimmygtr]

No. I saw Rush on the Grace Under Pressure tour and every tune Geddy played keys on he didn't play bass much and consequently the punch of the music was gone. Conversely every song he only played bass on had an amazing amount of energy. Years later I saw them on another tour (can't remember which one) and he did not play any keys and it was again more powerful.

[Rabin105]

No. I saw Rush on the Grace Under Pressure tour and every tune Geddy played keys on he didn't play bass much and consequently the punch of the music was gone. Conversely every song he only played bass on had an amazing amount of energy. Years later I saw them on another tour (can't remember which one) and he did not play any keys and it was again more powerful.

If they had a touring keyboardist though would it be better to have keyboards in rush or not

[PO]

Personally, I like keys. Even in Rush music.

Rush got branded as a 3-piece early on and it seems they must stay a 3-piece. That's too bad because it is limiting.

They should add a keyboard player if so. They shouldn't completly drop keyboards.

[Rabin105]

I have the same problem with Elp who is to say they can tourr with a bassist or guitarest
Rush needs a guitarest and Elp (if they are touring) need a Bassist or guitarest

[Orbert]

I haven't seen Rush since the 90's, but I have watched them do the keyboard thing, and then apparently adopt an attitude of "Well, we tried that, what's next?"

The Hemispheres show was awesome, because both Geddy and Alex had their Moog Taurus pedals, and both played them quite a bit. At the end of Xanadu, during the guitar solo, Geddy played rhythm guitar and covered the bass line with his pedals, while Alex played his solo and also triggered the high synth line with his pedals. They were effectively covering five instruments between the three of them, and it sounded fantastic.

By Moving Pictures, Geddy was more comfortable playing bass and pedals at the same time, but most of their keyboards still consisted of single note lines, so no biggie. On things like Subdivisions, he played the intro two-handed, then once the bass and drums come in, he played bass one-handed and continued to comp the chords with his free hand. That must've taken some serious practice!

But by time Test for Echo came around, I was a bit disappointed that they seemed content to just be three guys, and not try to be four or five anymore. Disappointed because I'd seen them do it and knew they could. But it's gotta be pretty demanding to do every night, and I really don't blame them for streamlining the act. I don't remember the exact song, but it was from the Moving Pictures era, a tune that had some keyboards on it, but this time they just didn't bother playing the line. As I said, I'm sure it was demanding, so I'll stop short of calling them "lazy", but it was definitely disappointing. On the other hand, I'm sure most of the people there didn't care.

Anyways, I don't see their being a three-piece as limiting. They sure didn't seem to think so, at least at first. They broadened their scope in the late 70's and early 80's to include keyboards, but have recently trimmed things back again, and that's their prerogative. It is a shame that they also trim the arrangements on songs that feature more keyboard work, especially since they used to cover those parts live. Yeah, it would be cool to have those parts played, but I think the reason they don't do that is not because they were branded a three-piece. I think it's because they have always played all the parts themselves, and adding someone would be like "cheating". The fact that there's only three of them isn't really a factor. Remember that 90's monstrosity that called itself Pink Floyd? After Roger Waters left, somehow there ended up being eight or ten guys up there. What the hell was that? There's the perfect example of what happens once you decide it's okay to add extra people, but have no idea when to stop. I don't think Rush would necessarily fall into that trap, but you never know. A lot of people just want to see the band up there. Not the band plus however many other guys they think need to be there.

Orbert

[IcedSabbath]

I wish they had a session keyboardist on tour, so that Geddy could still play bass.

I don't care if they keep the keys or not -- Rush rule with or without them.

[jimmygtr]

If they had a touring keyboardist though would it be better to have keyboards in rush or not

I have no objection to the keys. The fuller is nice but I think it seemed to lack punch with. Alex is very open chord style guitar player so without a little punch its just missing something...to me.

[Rabin105]

I haven't seen Rush since the 90's, but I have watched them do the keyboard thing, and then apparently adopt an attitude of "Well, we tried that, what's next?"

The Hemispheres show was awesome, because both Geddy and Alex had their Moog Taurus pedals, and both played them quite a bit. At the end of Xanadu, during the guitar solo, Geddy played rhythm guitar and covered the bass line with his pedals, while Alex played his solo and also triggered the high synth line with his pedals. They were effectively covering five instruments between the three of them, and it sounded fantastic.

By Moving Pictures, Geddy was more comfortable playing bass and pedals at the same time, but most of their keyboards still consisted of single note lines, so no biggie. On things like Subdivisions, he played the intro two-handed, then once the bass and drums come in, he played bass one-handed and continued to comp the chords with his free hand. That must've taken some serious practice!

But by time Test for Echo came around, I was a bit disappointed that they seemed content to just be three guys, and not try to be four or five anymore. Disappointed because I'd seen them do it and knew they could. But it's gotta be pretty demanding to do every night, and I really don't blame them for streamlining the act. I don't remember the exact song, but it was from the Moving Pictures era, a tune that had some keyboards on it, but this time they just didn't bother playing the line. As I said, I'm sure it was demanding, so I'll stop short of calling them "lazy", but it was definitely disappointing. On the other hand, I'm sure most of the people there didn't care.

Anyways, I don't see their being a three-piece as limiting. They sure didn't seem to think so, at least at first. They broadened their scope in the late 70's and early 80's to include keyboards, but have recently trimmed things back again, and that's their prerogative. It is a shame that they also trim the arrangements on songs that feature more keyboard work, especially since they used to cover those parts live. Yeah, it would be cool to have those parts played, but I think the reason they don't do that is not because they were branded a three-piece. I think it's because they have always played all the parts themselves, and adding someone would be like "cheating". The fact that there's only three of them isn't really a factor. Remember that 90's monstrosity that called itself Pink Floyd? After Roger Waters left, somehow there ended up being eight or ten guys up there. What the hell was that? There's the perfect example of what happens once you decide it's okay to add extra people, but have no idea when to stop. I don't think Rush would necessarily fall into that trap, but you never know. A lot of people just want to see the band up there. Not the band plus however many other guys they think need to be there.

Orbert

First of all you have a point we don't need a 20 peice rush but Bass one handed onone hand while playing synth wow Geddy lee is talented.. Frankly going on floyd for a moment the rhythem guitar was not needed the keyboardest I guess was usefull and the precussin guy well It sounhded awesome on learning to fly the rest of the songs well it just wasn't needed.
Frankly a touring Keyboardest would work wonders for Rush especially to play a lot of the classic rush songs (like Spirit of radio where you hear the piano part but don't see a pianist did they buy that at the same store Jon bought his majical guitar for "I've Seen all Good people")

[Orbert]

Actually, since I posted that, I caught the video for "Comfortably Numb" from The Delicate Sound of Thunder on VH1, and it was indeed an incredible sound. David's guitar solo just soars; he could've gone on for another ten minutes and wouldn't have minded. I guess the initial shock of seeing an entire stage full of people stuck with me all this time. The three female singers, bleah. Eye candy plus the occassional actual contribution. The sax player only comes out for his solos, then courteously disappears again. But there were still at least one or two too many up there. It wasn't Pink Floyd anymore; it was "The Pink Floyd Orchestra". Sounded amazing, though, I'll admit that. If I were there, it would've been a hell of a time.

Okay, back to Rush. Sure, it would be nice to have the keyboard parts played. I'm a keyboard player myself and have fought for thirty-some years for keyboard rights within the rock medium. But Rush is a three-piece band, and clearly prefers to just keep it the three of them. If they're ambitious enough, and can figure out a way to play all the parts, they do it, otherwise something doesn't get covered, and that's it. There are times when it would be nice having the rhythm guitar behind Alex's solos, but I would not advocate adding a second guitarist just for that. Similarly, I can't see them adding a keyboard player just for the times Geddy can't do it all.

I agree with you that it would definitely help round out the sound. It's a drag that there are parts we're used to hearing that don't get played live. But I've never liked the idea of adding guys onstage. It should be the band, the whole band, and nothing but the band.

Orbert

[Max Webster]

I got into Rush in the mid-70s, and they were my favourite band for the longest time, but admittedly I stopped following them from about '85 to '92 (Power Windows to Roll The Bones). I kept playing the albums of theirs I had - but I just stopped buying their music.
Of course the period I stopped buying was when their albums were heavily-keyboard laden.
I don't blame the keyboards but for some reason the songs from that period just left me cold.
They won me back with Counterparts which to my ears sounded more raw, and had more feel to it and I absolutely love Vapour Trails which is the rawest, heaviest non-keyboard album they ever released.

Overall, I don't mind the keyboards (I thought Signals and Grace Under Pressure were fine albums) but for some reason my favourite Rush albums tend to be ones where the keyboards are subtly used or not used at all.

[Orbert]

Overall, I don't mind the keyboards (I thought Signals and Grace Under Pressure were fine albums) but for some reason my favourite Rush albums tend to be ones where the keyboards are subtly used or not used at all.

I feel the same way. The basic problem (if you could call it that) is that Geddy just isn't a keyboard player. He's a bassist/guitarist who happens to know his way around a keyboard a little, and their music had evolved to the point where some keys were nice. But they got a little too much into it, IMO, and right around the time I was losing interest in the band. I don't know how related those two events are. As a "power trio", their energy was sometimes untamed, but the Korg synths made everything sound pretty much the same, and because of Geddy's technical limitations, they weren't whipping out any blazing Wakemanesque solos, either. So it got slow and boring for a while.

Then Counterparts and Test for Echo. Yay! The guys were back!

Orbert

[Rabin105]

true but with say a keyboardist (for aguments sake I'll use the great former yes keyboardist Tom Brislin) who could add his own flare to the music and be able to play a better synth solo then Geddy lee but still wouldn't take away from Geddy lee or Alex lifeson.

[soulsearcher]

i think that rush should stay just the way they are.
i can't think of another band with three members who are more consistent and talented.
i love the fact that geddy, alex and neil play all the instruments themselves and that just ads to the awe and respect i feel when i see them.
think about it...did you like it better when tony kay was playing keyboards along with rick during the union tour?
or did you want more of ricks inimitable style?
i know i wanted more rick.
everyone is different, but rush is still an unbelievable force in the music world, and i wouldn't go changin' now.

[Rabin105]

i think that rush should stay just the way they are.
i can't think of another band with three members who are more consistent and talented.
i love the fact that geddy, alex and neil play all the instruments themselves and that just ads to the awe and respect i feel when i see them.
think about it...did you like it better when tony kay was playing keyboards along with rick during the union tour?
or did you want more of ricks inimitable style?
i know i wanted more rick.
everyone is different, but rush is still an unbelievable force in the music world, and i wouldn't go changin' now.

Your talking to a tony kaye fan so of course I'd rather have rick and tony then just rick Rick great on synthasiezer very good on organ Tony kaye Awesome on organ okay on synth
Kaye and wakeman all the way.

Mac

[John Khatru]

Very interesting topic...

I don't think it would be a sin or have any shame for them to have a touring keyboard player. Their albums have always been complex productions and and a fairly sizable amount of their work featured keyboards/synths.

I've always liked piano/keyboards in rock music, and in Rush's case it just added another dimension to their sound. Available Light, perhaps my favorite Rush song, featured a great piano/keyboard sound and gave the song just a bit more drama to it.

[soulsearcher]

Your talking to a tony kaye fan so of course I'd rather have rick and tony then just rick Rick great on synthasiezer very good on organ Tony kaye Awesome on organ okay on synth
Kaye and wakeman all the way.

Mac

you know, i apologise.
i should assume that everyone is as huge of a rick fan as i am.
i also value tony kay very much.
i guess the comparison of rick to tony, both unequivical members of yes and awesome, talented keyboardests in their own right, is not a great example.

i really am saying that i would be unhappy if parts previously played by geddy, who is a genius in my eyes, and irreplaceable, were ever played my someone else, even to make room for geddy to be playing something else and to thicken to sound of the band.

i just like the three of them together..the synergy there is amazing.

[Rabin105]

First of all Thankls John I try and come up with interesting topics. Plus with a keyboardest there will be no excuse not to play Subdivisions. though I agree with Soulsearcher Geddy is irreplacible on bass keys I think are a whole nother story Geddy is a n amzing Bassist but an adaquite Keyboardist you put and amzing Keyboardist wioth an aloready amzing group and you'll have a group that is only more amazing now that is really good.

[ES-335]

hi everyone ... interesting topic ...

First ... let me say this ... RUSH has a keyboardist ... his name is Geddy Lee ...

Concerning keys, it isn't like they woke up one day and said they were going to release a keyboard heavy album with signals ... it was a gradual progression. They started with one note fillers played with Taurus pedals to fill out the sound. That became sort of a trademark sound during the early albums ... then in PermanentWaves, Geddy used more keys, adding more solos, some chords ... etc... with Moving pictures, keys were a lot more present than people think ... there are several sections where geddy transitions completely to keys ... many solos, many fillers ... probably about 30% of the sounds are keys ... then signals, the album most folks feel RUSH changed drastically ... actually, they just kept the progression to more keys, in fact, I believe that if Signals started with New World man and that was the first song released, then there would be a whole different vibe. Then, in the 80s, Geddy kept progressing as well as Neil to a more electric sound ... Alex was probably one who changed the least over the years. Then, after Hold Your Fire which was keyboard laden, Presto had less all the way to Vapor Trails which had no keys. Also, Vapor Trails had no lead guitars ... another little tidbit of info.

Also, they are playing subdivisions on this tour ... so Rabin105 ... go see them

Concerning adding a member, RUSH is RUSH, they are a trio, they have been now for 30 years ... with the use of trigger, all three members trigger sounds in time with the songs ...keys, progressions, sounds, even backing vocals, also, geddy and Alex use the Taurus pedals frequently to play fills and trigger sounds. So, they do just fine without a 4th member. Their talent combined with technology makes for a relatively accurate reproduction of the studio material ...

Ok .. back to work.

[relayer_1]

Remember that good old rockin' trio from Michigan..Grand Funk? I'm pretty sure a lot of you do and they are the best example on this topic or at least a good one to draw comparisons. They added a keyboard player (Craig Frost) by the time We're an american band rolled around and that was mainly due to the fact that their music had evolved and was more demanding for just a trio.

And of course, you have those bigger 80's bands like Queen that probably many of you did not notice but had a keyboard player on their final tours also due to the demanding live sound conditions and to allow Freddy more flexibility. I do agree that Rush has always been a power trio and they are damn good at their craft, but a "touring" member and most of all a keyboard player would be great, no complaints from here. Oh yeah, Genesis added those two very talented musicians ( Chester & Daryl) for over ten years but that's because Tony Banks did not need any aid whatsoever.

Is everyone ready for Rush on tour!!??

relayer