Has Steve Howe Lost It? [Archive] - Yesfans.com: Founded 4/01

gleeman

12-23-2003, 05:42 PM

Don't want to get anyone mad, but I would like to see a more balanced discussion than what's under the "appreciation" topic.

Clearly, Steve is a unique player who sounds like no one else in rock. That's to his immense credit. But on all the tours and records he's done since rejoining the band in 96 he often seems Missing in Action! His steel and acoustic playing still sound great, but his electirc lead playing has gone way downhill. On Magnification and in concert you can barely hear him most of the time! He seems afraid of that aggressive sound he used to have on records like Relayer and Yessongs. Gates of Delirium used to be almost all Steve with some of his most blazing playing, but on the YesSymphonic DVD and on bootlegs I've heard from the masterworks tour, his approach is tepid and often woefully out of time. In the middle instrumental section he's usually way behind the rest of the band, and it sounds like a train wreck. I know we all get a little slower as we grow older but I really miss the fire he used to have. His cold reserve and distance from the rest of the band for me is epitomized by the shot during GoD in the Symphonic DVD when Chris moves over to Steve during their unison riff in the battle section. Chris, having a ball, tries to get Steve out of his shell to rock out with him. Steve can barely manage to look up and looks annoyed by the intrusion. C'mon Steve, you used to rock! Turn it Up!

stevie

12-23-2003, 06:03 PM

Sorry, I know you said you didn't want to get anybody mad, but I think you're talking rubbish.

I see and hear none of the things you seem to. I think Steve is great on Symphonic. As for the bit on GoD on Symphonic when Chris goes over to Steve I just think it's funny and I suspect Steve and Chris do as well. They are totally different characters.

12-23-2003, 06:12 PM

I know what you are saying, but with a degree of "not so fast"!

Of course, Steve has off nights. They all do. Everything you've described I've seen in all the members. White and Wakey nearly destroyed Revealing at a show. Squire goofing around really threw away a Starship Trooper. Anderson has made goofy mistakes since the 70's!

"A man who never makes mistakes never does anything". Howe made his job extremely difficult. He has thousands of intricacies to not only remember but also execute. But, the last two times I saw them (2002) he was near flawless. I've heard some recordings from much earlier shows that I thought were worse.

So, I agree that quality does vary. But all the guys have the same problem. It's easy to focus on Steve because he made himself such a focus! People get in slumps, so that's probably what you see.

He still plays for an hour or two before each show (he even runs scales!). Vladimir Horowitz stopped practising in his later years. He said "I practised for 30 years. Why should I have to now?" In a way, I agree, but Steve still does.

nightliner

12-23-2003, 06:26 PM

I can't say that I agree with your assessment of his playing, but I do think he needs to lighten up a bit. Everytime I see the Symphonic dvd I have to laugh when I see Chris try to intice Steve into showing some emotion. The look Steve gives him seems to say "what the #*%@ are you doing over here. Get back on your own side of the stage."

Chris probably knows the reaction he'll get and he does it to amuse himself.

gathernear

12-23-2003, 06:29 PM

Ha, ha! Get off my rug! Steve hasn't slipped at all.

Larry

nightliner

12-23-2003, 06:33 PM

Ha, ha! Get off my rug! Steve hasn't slipped at all.

Larry

The rug gives him better traction.

Dances w/PURPLE

12-23-2003, 06:37 PM

I thought there was a problem with the sound guys?

OK, I'll give you that he's not a spry young man but give the man his due! He's always been somewhat to himself and less of a showboater but the man can play!

BrianD

12-23-2003, 06:39 PM

Steve was awesome in the two concerts in Australia. Not only did he play exceptionally well - his solo spots and SSOTS stood out - but he was also having a great time (unlike the rather serious appearance on Yessymphonic). He really did steal the show both times - despite his equipment problems in Melbourne.

I also gather from reports in Japan and Hawaii that he was just as stunning there.

So whatever perceived 'problems' in his playing from 2000/2001 certainly have evaporated by 2003.

I suspect the presence of Rick has something to do with that.

12-23-2003, 06:51 PM

1973
Steve: Hey, Chris. I'm gonna use a rug in the studio. My feet get cold. Help me move your amp a bit so it will fit.
Chris: But I need my sound. Why can't you just roll up the edge of it?
S: 'Cause it's a nice rug and I don't want it wrinkled. What's the big deal?
C: You don't see me spreading out all over the studio.
S: Yea? You can't help it with those feet.
C: Why, I oughta ...

1977
S: That was close during Gates tonight. You almost clocked me with your freakin' Reeken-backer. And you got curry crap on my rug!
C: Hey, I was just gettin' into it.
S: Well, pay attention.
C: Hey Hey hee hee, Get off of my rug (sung in a mocking voice to the 'Stones song)

2000 and beyond

... the saga continues

yesindeed

12-23-2003, 06:54 PM

I have been to something like 10 yes concerts over the past 3 years and I have noticed a definite slowing down of things like the intro to ctte and a simplifying of the solo at the end of wurm on more than one occasion. I do think that he is starting to show some loss of speed and accuracy on some occasions... not all times, but "sometimes". He is in his mid 50's now eh? Some things go with age. I don't feel it affects his overall playing, just the occasional lack of "fire". It's gonna happen. It's fine with me as he is, after all, just a person. He has time left and lets all hope it is a lot of time.

yesindeed

12-23-2003, 06:56 PM

I would also like to mention that the night that porcupine tree opened for yes in rochester steve CRANKED THE CRAP (darn moderators won't let me say poop :)) OUT OF HIS ACT! maybe he just needs to be pushed a bit...

gleeman

12-23-2003, 11:04 PM

I agree, yesindeed--I think he just needs to be pushed a bit! I've heard reports that h'es come up in the mix on more recent shows. I saw them in Chicago July 2002 with Rick and I still thought Steve was low in the mix--hopefully he'll be in a more aggressive mood during the 35th anniversary tour.

Of course the guy can still play, but can he still rock? Sometimes I wonder.

And the rug---reminds me of Greg Lake!

TRUEYOUTRUEME

12-23-2003, 11:14 PM

I saw Steve solo during "In The Groove" and he blew me away!

Sometimes I try to get in his mind a bit being that I play guitar abit too and I do think he is abit strange. Is that maybe what you really mean?

yessongs72

12-23-2003, 11:14 PM

Steve can still burn it,if you have any of the vcd's just take a look.Remember Steve doesn't have to be the showman as Chris to burn it,kust listen to Steve and Rick playoff each other,something we have been missing for twenty-four years.
Now that rug,I agree,lol. It does look like he loves to stay on it,like a security rug,haha.He will step off burn a few chords and then back to the rug.But what the heck,I will take this versioguitarist over anyothers anyday.

JohnPaul

12-23-2003, 11:48 PM

short answer. No.

long answer. I'm not mad. But..
I've seen Steve Howe 9 times since 1996 and I disagree.
Sorry dude - you're wrong.

I've seen 3 serious mistakes - 2 of which I attibute to guitar tech asleep at the wheel - which is not a disrespect to Shoo (sp?) - his tech.. that dudes well competent.

Solos are OUTSTANDING? ..

Harmonix are in Revealing are right on. I saw Ritual which was VERY POWERFUL - I wish I could font that at 200 point for ya..

V E R Y P O W E R F U L

Ok.. I'm done with this discussion. I think you need a new drug.
The draino is not doing you any good at all dud!

gleeman

12-24-2003, 12:36 AM

bender

12-24-2003, 06:24 AM

Posted by BrianD:
"Steve was awesome in the two concerts in Australia. Not only did he play exceptionally well - his solo spots and SSOTS stood out - but he was also having a great time (unlike the rather serious appearance on Yessymphonic). He really did steal the show both times - despite his equipment problems in Melbourne.

I also gather from reports in Japan and Hawaii that he was just as stunning there.

So whatever perceived 'problems' in his playing from 2000/2001 certainly have evaporated by 2003.

I suspect the presence of Rick has something to do with that."

-Yeah, what he said!

yessongs72

12-24-2003, 07:11 AM

Yo, John Paul. Sorry dude, I'm not wrong. Its my opinion. And I'll defend it. You're right he sounds great on the tales stuff--its slower, smoother and suits him fine these days. But I think he's got no feel or rhythm on the harder stuff anymore-- like Starship Trooper, America, and especially Gates. Whew, I'm really askin' for it now!

Look, Steve has said it himself, (can't remember where--can someone help me out here?) "Yes used to rock!" I think he realizes that some of the spark is gone---but if he's unhappy about it, I wish he'd do something!

And if I have to be on a new drug to appreciate Steve's playing, then I know for sure he's lost it.
I must remind you these guys are thirty years older and sure they are going to play abit slower.This is nature setting in, but I will take the same classic crew anyday.If you listen all have slowed down,even Jons voice is a bit off tnan that of CTTE fame.
Now what are you asking for? Is is for Steve to jump up and down like a ounker playing,sorry thats not his style.When he was younger he didn't jump up and doen like a Townsend.Now the Symphonic,remember the strings overrode a lot of part of the guitar and keys.
In a nutshell Steve can still rock,listen to his new album.And this classic line up is paying at the top of their game.Now you always can do as I did in the rabin era,not buy the cd's or go to the shows.
Also maybe ,just maybe it's the drugs??

PeterCologne

12-24-2003, 07:47 AM

Well, first of all, I think, no opinion here should be rated as "rubbish". This way of argueing really makes me mad. Everbody is free to express his point of view.

Ok, some poeple here know, that I am a passionate fan of Trevor Rabin. And I really think, that he is - in his way - as good for Yes as Steve Howe is. But your question, gleeman, I would answer with a NO.

Though I would prefer Trevor in the band in the near future for one or two albums - because I think, he is the most adventureous of all 14 yes-musicians - I still have great respect for the other master, Steve Howe. Without him, Yes never would have turned into the best musical act, that ever happened. And I think, he is still hot.

On my 2003 Yes-show in Bonn he was The one, who really impressed me the most. Chris seemed tired, Rick does his nostalgic thang, that regresses Yes (my very lonely opnion). But wonderful, how Steve played around with those classics like Siberian Khatru or Heart Of The Sunrise. He added some Funk here, some Blues there and many more. Might be that he lost his power a little, that made his former performances so thrilling - The Ancient in 74, Gates in 76, Machine Messiah on the Drama tour, just some of countless examples - but he compensates that with an all in all more jazzier approach. I liked him too on the Symphonic tour. And he was wonderful on the Ladder and Open Your Eyes tours (and seemed to be inspired by Igor Khoroshev).

Plus I really like Steves new solo-album Elements, it is full of surprises, offersd a lot of styles - though organic in the end - and hot playing. I am really looking forward, what Steve will do on the next album. Hope, he takes that in his hands a little.

Steve and Trevor rule

Greetings

Peter

Insane Teacher

12-24-2003, 08:20 AM

Interesting question. I did not notice Steve getting out of time or playing poorly in the two concerts I saw in 2002. A lot of what you hear in concert depends upon the mix and where you are sitting.

What I have noticed since rediscovering new Yes is that his style has changed a bit. It seems more refined, more mature. He is not the wild 20 something player from the early 1970s. He is a father and a guitar master, and it reflects in his guitar style and presence. In the November 2002 show, though, I actually saw Steve playing his guitar between his legs during the Starship Trooper encore.

soundchaser722

12-24-2003, 09:22 AM

I would have to agree with gleeman.
I've noticed that he seems to struggle with some leads at times in recent years. It also seems he can't play Siberian Khatru with the same speed as before ( regarding SK,i've noticed this for a while now).
Having said that, he is & will continue to be a great guitar player!

12-24-2003, 09:26 AM

R'tanys

12-24-2003, 10:08 AM

Steve's performance at the Minneapolis show last November was flawless. :guitar:

As to his stage presence; I think the guy's just incredibly focused. To do what he does with a guitar, I'd have to be too!

Bugeyes

12-24-2003, 10:49 AM

Steve can still burn it, ... Now that rug... he loves to stay on it, like a security rug, haha. He will step off burn a few chords and then back to the rug...

Reminds me of the game as a child, HOT LAVA, where you can't touch the ground. And ya, I still play it with my 12 year old daughter, like with the floor tiling at the supermarket, you can only step on the black tiles. So, I know where Steve is coming from! It's all about WHEN your feet touch the ground, not WHERE.

:lol:

SallyKhatru

12-24-2003, 11:30 AM

Steve? Lost it?
Never! Merry christmas everybody

gleeman

12-24-2003, 12:41 PM

Thanks for all the comments everyone. I don't want to come accross as dissing Mr. Howe, I still have great respect for him as a musician. And remember, the title of this thread is formulated as a QUESTION, I just wanted to get some discussion going.

I feel his lead sound now is just too friendly, too cautious, too polite. Once he had a searing, sustained tone. Now everything sounds like plink-a-plunk-a-plink. Siberian on the KTA album is an excellent example of this. I just want him to crank it up again!

12-24-2003, 12:46 PM

i think objective, non-zealot discussion of the musical issues is always healthy. It's when people try to turn subjective likes and dislikes into musical fact that things become uncomfortable ...

gleeman

12-24-2003, 12:51 PM

[QUOTE=Q]i think objective, non-zealot discussion of the musical issues is always healthy.

Thanks Q, I agree. Let's hear it for the non-zealots!

CybrKhatru

12-24-2003, 01:36 PM

My take is that he hasn't "lost it" per se, but changed his style.

I too miss that reckless, fiery style he used to wield, especially on things like Khatru and Trooper...and that great "searing sustained" tone of which I don't hear much anymore...

He has commented on changing his style to a more studied one in recent years, so perhaps it's a conscious decision on his part.

But then again----during the South Side duels I saw and heard that fiery Howe which I loved so much from Yessongs and the 70s, so who knows? Perhaps he's decided not to use that "less refined" tone for many of the chestnuts...

---Matt

PeterCologne

12-24-2003, 02:07 PM

It is an objective reality that Steve has had tempo issues in the 2002-2003 shows, and racked up a handful of misses and open string errors in many shows (anyone with a respectable boot collection can hear them). He was much more accurate and in-the-groove in the late '90s shows.

HOWEVER --- it is also true that Rabin logged more in-flight errors than he should have on the Talk tour, and it is an unquestionable fact (just as provable from the boots) that Steve's solo spots just soared in the 2002-2003 shows!

So it all balances out ...

That's howe its was at some shows, Q, but at least for me this doesn't count too much. If the atmosphere, the vibrations and the sounds and the songs are right, I like it. And this counts for the Talk-Tour too, which I experience(d) only on three boots, but I love them all.

Regarding my show in 2003 and some boots, I would like to give Q's above quote a provocative turn: I had some feeling, that the others, well, Rick and Chris most of all, could not follow Steves playing, his ideas, to do something new with those a thousand times interpreted songs. Well, maybe apart from that South Side Of The Sky-Jam.

Agree, that Steve maybe was even more inspired at the Open Your Eyes-Tour for example. I have boot from the Universal-show in 97, and for me that is one of the best music-ever, it contains my favourite versions of And You And I and Siberian Kathru. And Igor is magic too. And Chris is on full gear too. Well, again, I don't believe, that Rick or only Rick puts out the best in Steve. But that might be another discussion.

Have a blessed Christmas

Peter