Why is Fragile rated so low here on Yesfans?

[gleeman]

Surfing the site here I always notice that Fragile rates really low in favorite album polls, songs you'd like to hear done live, etc. Why?

Fragile is perhaps the only Yes album that has transcended the prog genre to become a classic of rock in general. Is this why people don't mention it, just cause they're sick of hearing it on the radio? Is this album sneered at for being "commercial " and thus not for the true Yes fan?

Well there's a reason it's been all over rock radio for years. IT'S THAT GOOD. It has all the elements of Yes' most demanding prog style, married to accessible songs and exciting playing. Fragile is a true classic!

[BrianD]

I am not aware that Fragile is rated really low in this forum. There is a thread in which the studio albums are each rated out of 10 and at this stage Fragile ranks number 4 behind CTTE, GFTO and Relayer.

Certainly with the 2002-3 tour featuring a lot of Fragile many would like different songs featured in the 2004 tour but that is only natural.

But your are right, Fragile is an album more accessible than some for the main stream rock enthusiast.

[Earl Grey]

Hello Gleeman!

Welcome to Yesfans. It's good to meet you, friend.
Post often, and have fun: that's an order! ;)

You pose a good question. I think, after one has been a YES fan for some years, we tend to forget that which drew us here in the first place...

When I heard Roundabout for the first time (And I remember this well! Roundabout on 'The American Top 40' with Casey Kasem. My, how music has changed...) I was utterly floored.

I'd never heard anything quite like it: there was so much detail. The words were like leaves of poetry, the guitar-work of an ilk I'd never heard in a rock song... It was simply in a class all of it's own.

When I first heard Fragile in it's entirety, I was a little peeved. After all, I'd spent hours and hours attempting to learn The Beatles catalogue, and had finally gotten most of Harrison's leads down: more or less... OK, less! :rolleyes:

Now... Suddenly there was a higher bar.
YES wasn't the stuff that you learned and riffed on in the garage, amid oilspills... No.

YES's Fragile made Hendrix seem easy.
It forced many musicians to expand and to forge beyond the seeming musical ceiling. It caused us to reach for something illusive, yet true.

Like a call from the stars. The clarion of excellence.

Fragile meant that much to me.
It was frustrating, and yet impelling.

A thing of amazement.

And it changed the parameters of modern rock.

Any true Yesfan is going to eventually cop to this. We just forget sometimes...
You know, Relayer... TALES, etc etc... We're all a little pompous, we Yesfans! It comes with the hat.

FRAGILE is amazing. I can't quite express how wonderful it is, but I tried!

:ele: It's good to meet you sir! Post often now...

Earl:yesbird:

[yessongs72]

Hello Gleeman!

Welcome to Yesfans. It's good to meet you, friend.
Post often, and have fun: that's an order! ;)

Now... Suddenly there was a higher bar.
Earl:yesbird:

Gleeman,Please come back and post often,and beware of Earl,he's always higher at the bar:dog: and Earl,one day we both shall ne higher at the bar chatting about Yes..and maybe another low rent group that called themselves Beatles.
But Fragile is one of my favorite and was until CTTE,but I still come back to Fragile for LDR/The Fish,HOS,SSOTS and after listening to those then I can tolerate Roundabout.Now don't take me wrong,it's a good song,just to much radioplay and at all shows theres always someone yelling play Roundabout. One time I would love Yes to open with the Three minute 1972 radio edit and get it over with.
Again Gleeman,welcome and post your views often.

[upbgirl]

One time I would love Yes to open with the Three minute 1972 radio edit and get it over with.
Again Gleeman,welcome and post your views often.
i agree-roundabout first?? haha! that's shake a few people up wouldnt it? lol!


allow me to welcome gleeman too! you are going to like it here..
i love fragile-[i keep trying to lift the 'fragile' stamp from my local post office ;)]

it was the 'beginning of a new love inside'-me & Yes..
the first album that sucked me in..
and i havent looked back yet-not once!

[Dances w/PURPLE]

Fragile is right up there with one of my favorite YES albums so that doesn't speak for me not being favorable to it.

LOVE the cover of the album.

[gt76yesman]

I was first turned onto YES when CTTE came out. To this day it is still my favorite. Fragile is right up there. I think those three albums (The Yes Album, Fragile, CTTE) were my beginnings of love of the true musician. They inspired me to be the best musician I can be. I still reach for that goal today 31 years later.

Two other possibilities should be examined. First YesFans is very diverse in the age group and there are many YesWest fans and younger fans that might not have gotten it on early YES. Second, with so many excellent albums out many Yesfans could be trying to grade on a curve.

I hope you get your answer and welcome to YesFans Gleeman.

Glendo
:dog2:

[Dragonfly]

The reason FRAGILE doesn't rate as high for me does, in part, have to do with its commercial success and the over-playing of just one song by a band with an enormous catalogue of equally brilliant tunes. It takes effort to think of the brilliance of “Roundabout” while tuning out the frequency of its appearance – both in the broadcast media and in live performance.

One of the other reasons, for me, is all of the solo material. (Sort of like George Martin’s complaint about how the Beatles “THE WHITE ALBUM” would have made a really strong single-disc album if they’d taken out all of the “fluff”; an assessment I entirely disagree with.) "Cans and Brahms", in particular, is fun, but doesn't "help" the album at all. It gets my “weakest link” vote. Likewise, while "Mood for a Day" is quite beautiful, its best attribute as an album cut is the quiet, acoustic interlude it creates before the stomping rocker "Heart of the Sunrise". That’s less about the song itself than it is about what follows it.

Also, to be frank, tracks like "Long Distance Runaround" and "Heart of the Sunrise" aren't in my list of "top favorites." That, alone, is reason enough to rank it lower. When there are tracks like “Siberian Khatru”, “Sound Chaser” and “On the Silent Wings of Freedom” out there, how can one favor “We Have Heaven”? It’s a great tune, sure, but does that make FRAGILE a superior album?

When compared to other albums - and you have to admit there are some brilliant Yes albums out there - it just doesn't beat out things like "CLOSE TO THE EDGE", "RELAYER" or even "TORMATO". (I'm sure I'll catch hell for that last one.) Again, "In My Opinion". I wouldn't rank it below "YES", “TALK” or even "ANDERSON BRUFORD (LEVIN) WAKEMAN HOWE", wonderful albums all. It is superior to those, and more.

Good question GleeMan. It really made me think. (Stop that!) :D

Dragonfly :fly:

[Dantalion Rides Again]

Welcome gleeman! I was just thinking this same thing yesterday. In fact, there's a thread around here somewhere where yesterday, I stated my shock over Tales From Topographic Oceans beating out Fragile in that thread's poll 7 to 1.

TYA, Fragile & CTTE . . . three of my very favorite albums of all time. Soooo good. Like Beatle good. [Non-Beatle fans: ignore that last bit. :D]

Roundabout is only annoying to me because they always play it live, yet it doesn't have the magic that the studio version has. What a friggin' hot recording that is. That studio version is the version I will never tire of. (Or 'of which I will never tire'? Can you end a sentance with a tire?)

Rush opened with "Tom Sawyer" last tour, and it was such a great move. Got it out of the way! I didn't mind hearing it in the least because the first song is just, I dunno . . . it's the band taking the stage! Who cares what song. But if it's toward the end and it comes on (a la Roundabout) all the die hards go 'ugh. They're doing their ''Rock Around The Clock." '

But man, Fragile is certainly up there. It was my first Yes album too, and I'm never sick of it. When I first got it I listened to it non stop. Could not stop listening to it. I remember wondering what the rest of the catalog was like, and thinking it'd be really incredible if any of it could live up to Fragile.

[Max Webster]

Surfing the site here I always notice that Fragile rates really low in favorite album polls, songs you'd like to hear done live, etc. Why?
I've also noticed fans are sometimes quick to dismiss Fragile, almost as if it were an over-rated album.
Perhaps, it's just a matter of differings tastes.
Though, I think there are sometimes two other factors that come into play here.

One is that several of these songs been performed on virtually every tour since '72 and perhaps those who've seen Yes many times have become a bit blase about hearing these songs performed yet again.

Another factor I think is people who view themselves as great or knowledgeable fans are less likely to select common favourites as their own.
Aficionados prefer to distinguish themselves from casual fans.
Fragile and "Roundabout" are Yes' equivalent to Led Zeppelin IV and "Stairway To Heaven." They're both great albums, both great songs. But people who consider themselves true fans tend to shy away from picking them as favourites. They're just not unique enough of a choice. Instead, those choices are left for the so-called casual fans.

[stevie]

Does Roundabout get a lot of Radioplay in the US? I honestly think I have only heard Roundabout once on the radio in the UK and that was when they played the whole concert from the Tormato tour (Wembley 78) on the radio.
Fragile is a top top album and I never tire of hearing Roundabout it always has me on my feet dancing and clapping along. By the end of the song I begin to wonder what the hell I'm doing but then look around and see people behaving in just the same way. Roundabout is a great feel good song and a great way to finish any show.

[bender]

Dragonfly-
I'll have to agree with you there- the solo spots on Fragile tend to detract from the "classics" and give the album a bit of a disjointed feel to it. Simply put, Yes have made other, more complete albums.

Fragile however, was my first Yes album and got me addicted to the whole Yes sound so without it I wouldn't be here!

[leqin]

First of all - welcome

Second of all - your right and its cack - no honestly and I jest not because never in the whole of human history have so many people deluded themselves that something, which is just childish amateurish rubbish when all is said and done, is actually a work of genius by inspired beings who wanted to create a work of art... its cack and not worth listening to.

You can tell its cack because I own the original LP and then the LP that I bought to replace the original LP when the original LP got worn out and then I also have the LP that replaced the LP that replaced the original LP and then I have the LP that replaced the LP that replaced the LP that replaced the original LP and (go get yourself a cup a coffee while I type replacement LPs for a very long time) and then CD arrived and I bought the CD to replace the LPs that replaced the original LP and at last I thought no more buying cack.

And then I bought the Atlantic Remaster to replace the original Atlantic CD that replaced the LPs that replaced the original LP and then I bought the Audio DVD to replace the Atlantic Remaster that replaced the original Atlantic CD that replaced the LPs that replaced the original LP... shrug... and then ever so recently I bought the Rhino Remaster that replaced the Audio DVD that replaced the Atlantic Remaster that replaced the original Atlantic CD that replaced the LPs that replaced the original LP... sigh.

Of course I also have it stored on hardisk as uncompressed full bandwidth wave file audio so that I don't have to risk 'my precious' being damaged and I also have it as 192kbps Lame MP3s and I also have it as 192kbps AAC to go on my Apple iPod.

So I own a lot of cack and, over the years, I've had more cack than you've had hot dinners and cack is a important part of my life and in ways that you would maybe little understand and never realised existed :gok:

'Fragile' - you know 'Fragile' is usually quoted as most peoples introduction to Yes, especially from our generation which is the old gits - no strike that 'Classic Yes' with the present line-up and the line-up that can walk all over any other line-up that there's ever been and most probably ever will be. Ask anybody to name their top 10 all time favourite Yes songs and you can bet that HOTS will appear prominently and all this cack about well I don't like the solo's and stuff like that - well people don't know the history as well as they ought to and even back then, at such a early point in time in the bands lifetime, they were under certain contractual obligations and company pressure to produce what the company wanted... you should never look at any album from the perspective of just one song and what matters is the whole and in 'Fragiles' case the whole works and is a work of genius.

Oh and I shan't point out that during the recent 'Full Circle' tour they dragged out 2 songs that hadn't been performed live in over 2 and a half decades and yet both 'We Have Heaven' and 'South Side of the Sky' were greeted with thunderous applause both before and after and that they played them pretty near flawlessly - oh and we we're also treated to the delights of at least one song that never made it onto 'Fragile' which is 'Show Me'

:crybby: and now you'll have to excuse me because I have to go get myself a import copy of 'Ultimate Yes' to replace the UK copy I bought, but all so that I have a proper studio version of 'Show Me' a song that never made it onto the Rhino Remaster that replaced the Audio DVD that replaced the Atlantic Remaster that replaced the original Atlantic CD that replaced the LPs that replaced the original LP of that cack album I bought all those years ago... sigh

[upbgirl]

Fragile is a top top album and I never tire of hearing Roundabout it always has me on my feet dancing and clapping along. By the end of the song I begin to wonder what the hell I'm doing but then look around and see people behaving in just the same way.

meet me downstage on june 16th in London, and we'll dance up a storm!
LOL!! no reason to wonder why-JUST DANCE, MAN!! :D**
leqin? would YOU like to dance with us?? the more the merrier!!;)

as for roundabout, yes, it does seem to get some decent airplay here in the states..[strange, isnt it? lol!] when they did NOT play it in madison WI last tour, i cant believe howe let down i was!! it was such a shocker-the first of 29 yesshows WHERE THERE WAS NO ROUNDABOUT?? HAHA! it didnt feel right, either! i felt 'gipped' actually.. but it was such a great time there, and i am one for counting my blessings, so i got over it..:D
and i am known for NOT being a 'fair-weather' fan.. i love every time i get to see/hear the band..no matter the setlist..
dang.leqin! where do ya find room for all that stuff, man? you are one loyal fan, my friend! [i just last weekend got the first two yes albums-'yes' & 'time & a word'.. lol!]

good points, there, max!!
[and gt76!! 'grading on a curve'.. LOL!]

[gt76yesman]

Thank you upbgirl, I think I remember that from school....way back when....

leqin, pardon me, but what is 'cack'? I thought it might mean :poop:
and I still do. Yes, must keep getting new cack, make sure you didn't miss anything.....leqin had me ROTFLMAO

Glendo

[gathernear]

Fragile is an amazing album, I don't understand the question.

[gleeman]

Cool, thanks for all the replies everyone.

I guess mostly I'm shocked like Dantalion that TFTO (an album I find really hard to stomach) always seems to get such high poll response and much more discussion than TYA and Fragile. I started this thread mostly cause I was also surprised to find not one topic under the discussion area for Fragile! So I'm glad to get the ball rolling.
I think Fragile has a concision, focus, inventiveness, joy, and hard edge that they quickly lost once Bruford left. I even think CttE sounds a little staid and boring by comparison!

[gleeman]

One more thing, about the solos.....

I like 'em (except maybe Rick's), and unlike a lot of people think they actually do help make the album whole, not drag it down. Fragile is really the same format as TYA, 4 long pieces at the outer ends of either LP side (and here I'm counting LDR/TF as one piece--the Fragile equivalent of YM/ISAGP) broken up nicely by shorter quieter "breather" pieces in between.

Genesis, I believe, did the same thing on Selling England by the Pound, my fav PG/Genesis LP!

[SKEETER]

I think if Fragile is rated low, I know why. A lot of YES fans are people that were turned on to YES when they had hits during the Trevor Rabin years. Although I think Fragile is still probably the best overall Yes album, lets face it, those guys were trying to compose and record very complex music on what would by todays standards be considered junk. I like Fragile a great deal, but lets face it, it does sound rather raw and unpolished compared to works by YES after the mid 70s. Not that sounding raw is bad, I still think Ten Years After Recorded Live is a gas to listen to, but, it is a BLUES album, and raw is good for blues, but when it comes to using the studio, production, and engineering as part of the creative process to do complex music, raw is not so good. Much as I like Fragile, I am still more inclined to listen to Tormoto or Magnification. It is also of importance that on later albums YES was using skills they likely learned while doing earlier albums, and likely became more proficient at their tasks, which means perhaps that when people listen to later YES stuff they are really hearing a refined and more well developed version of albums like Fragile. (just my personal conjecture)

[Scooty]

Can I throw in my 2 cents here?? My total guess is that Fragile doesn't get much discussed because we all know that its wonderful, great, awesome,incredible,brilliant,magical,inspirational ..and any other Thesaraus word i can think of for a damn fine album...
That being said...other YES Albums that don't receive a whole lot of attention in the "outside" world get more discussion time because these albums represent something more personal and wonderful to the individual and we can't figure out why nobody, well not nobody, bu tmost people don't get it. Fragile was and is a huuuuuge record for YES...i believe Triple Platinum here in the states...and a lot of casula Proggers and Rock And Rollers have it in their collections along side Zeppelin IV...and Hotel California...and Rumors...does this make sense...or did I ramble again..LOL :shrug:
Scott

[jeff25624]

If there is a weakness in Fragile, it is that its slightly disjointed. As opposed to an album like Close to the Edge, which is three giant conceptual pieces, Fragile is more of a showcase for the members of the band. Cans and Brahms, We have Heaven, Mood for a Day, etc etc, all srve no real purpose within the album's structure. However, that being said, I love Fragile to death anyway. All the guys in the band shine out, and as individuals they are still extrememly talented. We have Heavewn is gorgeous, as is Mood for Day. But if one wants to pick out flaws in Fragile those would be them.

[gleeman]

Actually Skeeter, that rawness is precisely why I think Fragile is a better album than most of its successors. Prog is so serious sometimes, who says it can't still be exciting? Good rock is energetic and on the edge, and Fragile works as both a great prog album and a great rock album. And while Tormato certainly has its own wierd kind of energy, Fragile is by far the better recorded album. I think Fragile has a great, heavy, classic sound, Eddie Offord and the boys at their peak, and remember, it was nominated for a grammy award for best engineered album. Slicker isn't necessarily better; after all, Rick still plays a mini moog on stage!

[gleeman]

Hey Jeff, in regards to Fragile being disjointed, I'll reiterate what I said in an earlier post. The solo pieces serve to give a break between the long heavy epics, so Fragile is really just a slight expansion of the format of The Yes Album. Right? Steve's solo piece between the two epics YIND and ST. And A Venture (which started out on stage as a bass feature)gives pause between ISAGP and PC on side two. So Fragile is the same format, except EVERYONE gets a solo!

[jeff25624]

Well, the thing is, I only have Fragile, Close to the Edge, and 90125, so I can only compare using those albums, and the ifno I've gleaned from this site. But I want to get the Yes album ;)

[SKEETER]

Hello Gleeman!

Welcome to Yesfans. It's good to meet you, friend.
Post often, and have fun: that's an order! ;)

You pose a good question. I think, after one has been a YES fan for some years, we tend to forget that which drew us here in the first place...

When I heard Roundabout for the first time (And I remember this well! Roundabout on 'The American Top 40' with Casey Kasem. My, how music has changed...) I was utterly floored.

I'd never heard anything quite like it: there was so much detail. The words were like leaves of poetry, the guitar-work of an ilk I'd never heard in a rock song... It was simply in a class all of it's own.

When I first heard Fragile in it's entirety, I was a little peeved. After all, I'd spent hours and hours attempting to learn The Beatles catalogue, and had finally gotten most of Harrison's leads down: more or less... OK, less! :rolleyes:

Now... Suddenly there was a higher bar.
YES wasn't the stuff that you learned and riffed on in the garage, amid oilspills... No.

YES's Fragile made Hendrix seem easy.
It forced many musicians to expand and to forge beyond the seeming musical ceiling. It caused us to reach for something illusive, yet true.

Like a call from the stars. The clarion of excellence.

Fragile meant that much to me.
It was frustrating, and yet impelling.

A thing of amazement.

And it changed the parameters of modern rock.

Any true Yesfan is going to eventually cop to this. We just forget sometimes...
You know, Relayer... TALES, etc etc... We're all a little pompous, we Yesfans! It comes with the hat.

FRAGILE is amazing. I can't quite express how wonderful it is, but I tried!

:ele: It's good to meet you sir! Post often now...

Earl:yesbird:

VERY well said!
I was never really able to put together in my head how I felt about Fragile, having heard Roundabout on AM Radio before FM became something you could have in your car. You certainly hit the nail on the head , "And it changed the parameters of modern rock." sure does sum up Fragile. Whether you liked the album or not, you knew it would have a lasting impact on not only music as a commodity, but music as an art.

[Gabriel]

Personally, I think that Fragile is a fantastic album; I like it even more than TYA and almost as much as CTTE! I can understand what people say about the unconsistancy of it, with the small songs that showcase each band members ability, but I found that they are a nice break in between the main songs, especially the beautiful 'We have heaven' and 'Mood for a day'

[Bill Mocarsky]

Outside of this forum, I bet that Fragile would probably be rated above all the other Yes albums. I think that (Yes) finatics want to delve deeper into the catalog.

[Timmo]

To me, Fragile has two HUGE yessongs on it...SSOTS and HOTS, SSOTS being one of my absolute favorites. Plus, they were really solifying their "voice" with the addition of Wakey, which was distilled (and perhaps perfected) on CTTE. It's kind of a transitional album to me.

Roundabout and LDR are good, but not up there with the best of the best.

The rest is "interesting."