Is Trevor Rabin unappreciatied by Yes? [Archive]

SuperTrooper

11-14-2003, 03:56 PM

And some of their fans? On last year's tour, there was not one song played from the Trevor Rabin era despite this era being the best selling in the bands history.

Without Trevor Rabin, Yes would probably be playing in back alley pubs.
He revitaled the interest in the band 20 years ago (along with the indirect success of Asia). I bet he provides a good percentage of their pension funds too.

He did change the direction of the band. It went from a keyboard directed band to a heavy guitar/ keyboard sound along the lines of Deep Purple or Uriah Heep. And that change of direction paid off. Why not give the guy his due?

ANTIOCH

11-14-2003, 05:36 PM

With the current line-up and the available material they created, why would they ?
Yes I agree, without Trevor Rabin's contributions, the Yes Starship would probably have landed in dry-dock. The members have acknowledged Trevor's contributions on numerous occasions, as they have with the addition of 'The Buggles'; but I would much rather see "Mind Drive" or "On the Silent Wings of Freedom" than a mock rendition of "The Calling" . . wouldn't you ?

ycantibu

11-14-2003, 06:43 PM

I dunno SuperTrooper. No, I don't think they appreciate him necessarily but then again, he seems to be doing rather well without their accolades, so I guess it all worked out well in the end. :)

Earl Grey

11-14-2003, 06:44 PM

I would LOVE to hear some of the Trevor material next leg of the tour.

Hey, they DID play 'Owner' in Hawaii... Howe played it with spirit and panache, and he DID do the guitar solo.
Quite nicely, I might add.

I think that if Howe were to put his own stylistic spin on some of the Trevor songs, they would fit-in beautifully. 'Owner' was a great example: once he finally got over what ever it was he had to get over, he did a fine job.
OK, I know... Trevor in YES meant that Howe was out back when... So I can understand some of his prejudice.

But what about playing some of the Union songs?

I would personally LOVE to hear Howe's take on 'Lift Me Up'.

And 'I Am Waiting' would be right up his alley!

Who knows? I for one would welcome some Trevor songs in the set list.

Earlie:yesbird:

Soul Dreamer

11-14-2003, 07:01 PM

I do not believe the Yes men underappreciate the contributions from Trevor, but are more inclined to do material they are most associated with. If they chose to, they could do anything within the massive Yes catalogue.

JudysTrevor

11-14-2003, 07:22 PM

It isn't a big secret that Trevor and Steve did not like doing each others Yes work. When you play a show, you want to enjoy the music you play. In a way, I sort of would like the Union thing again. Both out there ROCKIN!! Best of both worlds!! ;)

Judy
:guitar:

11-14-2003, 07:22 PM

I think that Rabin hasn't received his due from either the band (with the exception of Chris) or the fans --- but this last is qualified, because the remaining fans (a minute percentage of the fan base that has existed thru the band's lifetime) are by definition mostly those fans who enjoy the current line-up.

Well, he'll receive his due from me. Trevor Rabin is articulate, gracious, determined, wildly multi-talented and inventive, meticulous, personable, and serious about his craft. I have been and ever shall be a fan and supporter.

Q

JudysTrevor

11-14-2003, 07:26 PM

VERY well said Q!!! :thumbs:

Judy
:guitar:

11-14-2003, 09:54 PM

The Rabin band wasn't intended to be Yes, and really didn't come off as Yes. Even if I could join Yes (yea, right), I wouldn't care to play much Rabin material, and could easily live withut it. I say that knowing how to play a lot of the Rabin material, too.

Of all Yes guitarists, Rabin's my 2nd favorite.

Of ALL guitarists, he's probably in the top 30.

Steve placed 1st in both categories.

1yesfan

11-14-2003, 10:51 PM

If it was not intended for Yes in the end, then why did Jon come back, why did it become Yes, why did the record company let it become Yes, because it was Yes, the new Yes at that time!

1yesfan

11-14-2003, 10:52 PM

Have to agree with Q's last post!

gathernear

11-14-2003, 11:47 PM

I don't understand. He was in the band. Now, he's not in the band. What recognition do you think he, or any other former member of the group, should get? Sure, he's a great player, he helped dig them out of a deep hole. But, he left. He wasn't thrown out. I'm sure he's been paid for his contributions. He now has his own thing going, and i'm sure the work he gets pays well.
I believe that the fact that they're not playing Trevor's songs onstage is because he isn't there. Steve can't play like Trevor. No one can sing like him either.
So, what can we do? Pull out a cardboard cutout of Trev onstage and play a tape?

Larry

BrianD

11-15-2003, 01:34 AM

Life moves on. Yes moved on. I don't think that they need to pay homage to Rabin.

I believe Yes would have reformed in the late 80s even if the Rabin era didn't happen.

But it would be nice to hear a couple of Rabin era songs but not at the expense of band cohesion - in other words they shouldn't force themselves to do it.

11-15-2003, 04:37 AM

If it was not intended for Yes in the end, then why did Jon come back, why did it become Yes, why did the record company let it become Yes...

Marketing. Name recognition (who's Cinema?). I've read the stories in a few places.

leqin

11-15-2003, 05:07 AM

Admitably they didn't play any songs like what Trevor wrote on the latest tour, but does that say that they don't appreciate or under estimate his contribution towards the band in the past and at the present... NO - okay yes you get fans who say all sorts of stuff and those who jump to all sorts of conclusions dependant upon X printed in the press or supposadly atributed towards some thing that some band member said... I think you'll find that every member of the band past and present more than fully appreciates what Trevor contributed and he gets payed his due anyway and Trevor isn't moaning.

YESYOUANDI

11-15-2003, 06:09 AM

Well he left and I appreciate that!

Long live Stevie---see you next week Steve at 'Music Live' Birmingham NEC.

It will a good day.

Cheers fans.

bataisflow

11-15-2003, 07:45 AM

11-15-2003, 08:32 AM

For those of you who are pounding away above at the idea that Rabin is due no homage, and "the band moves on," etc, let me pose a question:

If Squire moved on, would we say the same? When Anderson moved on, did we say the same?

I doubt very seriously that the same thoughts would be rendered under these circumstances.

Conclusion: in Yes, all are equal but some are more equal than others ... and I continue to maintain that this violates the spirit of the music ...

Q

illusion

11-15-2003, 08:51 AM

I think that Rabin hasn't received his due from...the fans...

Erm...Rabin is held in high accord here! (By far too many people IMO). The level of support he gets is very high on Yesfans.

For those of you who are pounding away above at the idea that Rabin is due no homage, and "the band moves on," etc, let me pose a question:

If Squire moved on, would we say the same? When Anderson moved on, did we say the same?

The difference is, what Rabin did was crap (harsh word in the eyes of many but I can't be bothered with putting a different word there when "crap" sums up my feelings very well) while most of what Anderson and Squire did was great.

Conclusion: in Yes, all are equal but some are more equal than others ... and I continue to maintain that this violates the spirit of the music ...

Q

There is no reason why all Yes members should be equal. Rabin only contributed to 3.5 Yes albums, it's worthwhile remembering that when we compare him to Chris or Jon who have done god knows how many.

Oh, and no I don't appreciate what he did for Yes, before anyone asks.

YESYOUANDI

11-15-2003, 08:54 AM

Yes never needed Rabin.

All they ever needed to do was RE-FORM.

Now they have.

All's well, that ends well-----as they say!!

Cheers fans.

1yesfan

11-15-2003, 09:19 AM

Ahh the Rabin debate heats up once again. I will agree that if he had not ever came into the picture that Yes would have got back together. The tract record be4 him and since him proves this. I do not think he is looking for Props for the current band either. What he did in Yes served what it needed for him and what he wanted out of his career at the time, then he moved on!
Hey I do like the idea of putting cardboard life size figures of him on the stage, and a boom box with his parts playing, ha ha ha. Lets do it for all the folks that were in Yes. ha ha ha ha. Though doign this the fans may have to sit on the stage and the band have the seats, they would need all the room.

PeterCologne

11-16-2003, 07:28 PM

... if the Yes of 2002/2003 even ignores a lot of material, that they recorded with the current lineup, why should they care about the Rabin-Yes-Stuff. I would already be happy, if they would do more from Tales, Tormato, Union and Keys To Ascension.

By saying that, to me, the Rabin-phase of Yes is still one of the strongest. And songs like The Calling or Shoot High Aim Low would be a challenge especially for Steve. But with the recent setlist-policy there is no much hope.

Though, I am not so happy with 2002/2003 lineup, I can understand, that Yes now is concentrating on Anderson, Squire, White, Wakeman and Howe - and that Rabin hs to fade to the background. I still hope, that he will come back in the future, beacuse he gave Yes 3 and a half exciting albums. And I am sure, during his soundtrack-years, he developed more than all the other yes-members during in the last decade. Maybe Trevor could help the band to do the TALK of the new millenium, a true avantgardistic work - that could give Yes back the attention of the music-world (press and music-lovers). Like King Crimson with their challenging and always new music gets much more respect these days - and maybe better record-sales too.

Well, all in all it is the majority of fans, that refuses to give Trevor Rabin the respect he deserves. My thesis is, that - without Trevors new visions - they would have ended up like ELP. Unable to get out of the territory, they once conquered. Not moving forward is regression. And I like progression in music. But this is the ever lasting debate again. Should Yes repeat the formula, they invented in the 70s again and again? Or should they look over the horizon? I would be bored, if they had continued to do masterworks CTTE or Tales over and over again. They did that perfectly in the 70s, to do that over and over, most of the time leads to second hand-music.

Talk might not sound excactly like Close To the Edge, but it has all the ingrediants of it - but brewed to a new experience and enriched by some new magic herbs. Keys To Ascension - which I like very much - sounds like a fresh clone of Close To The Edge. Which is more than most other bands of the 70s are able to do with their classics. But I just prefer the real adventure of Talk (and Big Generator too).

Greetings

Peter

Soul Dreamer

11-17-2003, 11:08 AM

The thread that binds the history of Yes goes through Peter Banks, Patrick Moraz, Geoff Downes and Trevor Horn. The fabric that is essential Yes is this current line-up. Bill Bruford and Tony Kaye making up a respective portion of that fabric as well.
Each player contributing to, and every piece essential to the longevity of their wonderful careers.
Long live the Yesmen, then and now.

upbgirl

11-17-2003, 12:00 PM

hey! i never said anything bad about the young man!!
[once i got over steve leaving and really gave this new yes a better listen, anyway]
i think they were ALL [other than the five now] chumped on that billboard spread.. big time
all the ads taken out to congratulate the band
and none of them said anything about anyone but the five that are in now..
ya know, i think that would hurt my feelings to not be mentioned-even tho i was no longer a member, per se..
and there is no denying that he sparked the band up when they were floundering..
i think it is just a little off the mark to say that MOST fans dont like him or acknowledge him and his contributions..
we all know who was in the band when WE-personally- got pulled into this wonderful yestopia..and that is hard to forget..
i dont like anyone saying he didnt contribute..
too bad some of the fans refuse to admit he did great things at the perfect time for yes..
i am a die-hard howe person, but i give credit where credit is due..
[and now i am thinking of wakeman and how he seemed a bit uneasy about never being given credit for piano on morning has broken.. he didnt like it one bit, did he?]

11-17-2003, 12:02 PM

Yea, Peter, for now it may be That, That Was for Rabin-era!

I think Yes, the members, certainly like and appreciate him, though.

I tend to think of it as the Kaye-Rabin era, though. Keyboards are a major item in the sound. This era was quite different from the current lineup's initial era. Enough so that, to me, they are completely different bands.

I've been in bands where, technically, songs were easy enough to play, but were dropped due to lack of the right feel. The current lineup might come off the same way with some out-of-era songs, especially Kaye-Rabin.

The worst thing to come of the Kaye-Rabin era is the completely different fan-base, which I accept since I think it's a completely different band.

Those who pine to hear Gates of Delerium are, largely, not the same people who pine to hear something like Owner.

I would appreciate hearing Rabin if he got Annie Haslam to sing with a band of his own and do the tunes from that era (plus new things, maybe). Many musicians could cover the rest quite well.

You just don't use Howe/Wakeman to play Owner, nor Rabin/Kaye to play Roundabout (just to keep it to the hits). "The right tool for the right job", so to speak.

bataisflow

11-17-2003, 12:05 PM

To myself and many in Yesville. The current Lineup is Yes. Other era's are just hiccups!

upbgirl

11-17-2003, 12:11 PM

i dont mind hiccups at all..
:D

good points all, paostby..
well spoken.

1yesfan

11-17-2003, 02:51 PM

"The worst thing to come of the Kaye-Rabin era is the completely different fan-base, which I accept since I think it's a completely different band."

OUCH. I am a result of that Era, this site is a result of that era in a ROUNDABOUT way. Are you saying that I am a BAD THING? Sure seems like it from what was posted!

bataisflow

11-17-2003, 02:54 PM

1yesfan

11-17-2003, 02:54 PM

Reading thru the BB spread (thanks Silentwings) the only person that really hit on the Rabin era was Rick, he is the only one that really stood up and straight out applauded Trevor. It was nice to read that Steve does understand that many fans came about from the Rabin era and respects that.
I do agree that the EX members did get shafted a bit. I wonder who made the decision not to ask them about their roles.

11-17-2003, 03:30 PM

Right, the 2 eras are just different. I've just found it substantially different.

It's very similar to AC/DC. They have 2 eras, due to the 2 singers, Bon Scott (1975-80) and Brian Johnson (1980 to present). I prefer Brian Johnson. So, I may be a "YesWest"-type in the AC/DC realm!

-----The Yesstory:Unabridged by me (or, Who cares if I'm wrong?)-----

I lost no sleep over Bruford leaving (neither did Bruford, himself!). His impact was minimized because of Alan's capabilities on the CTTE tour and the strong subsequent releases.

Wakeman left, but Relayer was easily as strong a release as anything the band has ever produced to this date. Nice showing of the writing and Moraz.

Wakeman's return yielded 2 more releases, but the writers were headed in different directions, anyway. I would even concede that Drama shouldn't have been a Yes album.

6 years or so after Tormato, "Yes" wasn't together. The 80's landscape wasn't welcoming Prog bands. 90125 was released by a band that had some former Yes members. They had a hit that made it into the disco's.

Union seemed like a good idea, but I never thought that it would yield subsequent releases. It was a nice thing to do, but Christmas only comes once a year.

The 80's band gave it another go, but it was out of steam.

The "Dinosaurs" tried to roam the earth again, but ended up with a few Relayer-type lineups. At least the glaciers had melted.

When everyone of the 70's era got into their 50's, they also seemed to have forgotten the old limitations. So, the old gents got a 2nd wind and started having fun like the old days.

Let's see what happens.

(for an autographed copy, send me $1000 and then hit "Print")

1yesfan

11-17-2003, 03:57 PM

(for an autographed copy, send me $1000 and then hit "Print")

Ha ha ha ha

ycantibu

11-17-2003, 06:55 PM

Hey! What about me? Come on - you gotta lurve me!!!

The worst thing to come of the Kaye-Rabin era is the completely different fan-base, which I accept since I think it's a completely different band.

Those who pine to hear Gates of Delerium are, largely, not the same people who pine to hear something like Owner.

PeterCologne

11-17-2003, 06:58 PM

Those who pine to hear Gates of Delerium are, largely, not the same people who pine to hear something like Owner.

...one of my favourite yessongs is Gates Of Delirium - and I love Trevor Rabin. Rate him as absolutely equal in class and importance as the great Steve Howe. By the way, I always wonder, that Yes-West most of the time is reduced to Owner. It is just the peak of an very deep going iceberg.

Greetings

Peter

ycantibu

11-17-2003, 07:31 PM

I think Gates is pretty nifty as well. I think many hardcore fans think YesWesters are all about arena rock, which just isn't the case.

...one of my favourite yessongs is Gates Of Delirium - and I love Trevor Rabin. Rate him as absolutely equal in class and importance as the great Steve Howe. By the way, I always wonder, that Yes-West most of the time is reduced to Owner. It is just the peak of an very deep going iceberg.

Greetings

Peter

bataisflow

11-17-2003, 07:32 PM

...one of my favourite yessongs is Gates Of Delirium - and I love Trevor Rabin. Rate him as absolutely equal in class and importance as the great Steve Howe. By the way, I always wonder, that Yes-West most of the time is reduced to Owner. It is just the peak of an very deep going iceberg.

Greetings

Peter

To me, the best Yes West stuff is on Big Generator:

I'm Running, Final Eyes and SHAL.

I listen to alot of the Rabin era tunes, I love them, but they are all in all on a different wavelength to me, both musically and emotionally.

I prefer this current lineup the most becuase, maybe, that's what I grew up on. And also, as a musician it just seems to be miles above anything I have heard from modern musicians.

PeterCologne

11-17-2003, 07:52 PM

I think Gates is pretty nifty as well. I think many hardcore fans think YesWesters are all about arena rock, which just isn't the case.

I really don't like arena rock, but I love Yes-West. It is as far away from arena rock like the sun from the earth. I always wonder, why a lot of people don't see/hear it like me/us, ycantibu. But, well, that might be one of the fascinations of Yes - a real chameleon of music. Everybody can be happy with his/her Yes. And that is great. Mine is Steve and Trevor as the double wonder.

Greetings

Peter

PeterCologne

11-17-2003, 08:02 PM

To me, the best Yes West stuff is on Big Generator:
I'm Running, Final Eyes and SHAL.

I listen to alot of the Rabin era tunes, I love them, but they are all in all on a different wavelength to me, both musically and emotionally.

I prefer this current lineup the most becuase, maybe, that's what I grew up on. And also, as a musician it just seems to be miles above anything I have heard from modern musicians.

I sometimes can't decide between Talk and Big Generator. They are both masterworks, but different.

I grew up on Anderson, Squire, Howe, White and Wakeman too, bataisflow. I disvovered Yes im November 73, so I celebrate 30 years being a fan this month. And I love this music. Tales most of all. But that was then. I don't like them to try to clone that phase. As I loved them in the 70s to move on, I do that now. Without the Perpetual Change they would have been no CTTE, no Tales, no Relayer, no Big Generator, no Talk, no Magnification either. So, that's why I am kind of disappointed with the current line-up so far, which is kind of nostalgic.

Greetings

Peter

bataisflow

11-18-2003, 01:59 PM

I sometimes can't decide between Talk and Big Generator. They are both masterworks, but different.

I grew up on Anderson, Squire, Howe, White and Wakeman too, bataisflow. I disvovered Yes im November 73, so I celebrate 30 years being a fan this month. And I love this music. Tales most of all. But that was then. I don't like them to try to clone that phase. As I loved them in the 70s to move on, I do that now. Without the Perpetual Change they would have been no CTTE, no Tales, no Relayer, no Big Generator, no Talk, no Magnification either. So, that's why I am kind of disappointed with the current line-up so far, which is kind of nostalgic.

Greetings

Peter

Well, I agree with you in some sense. Progression is always a good thing (well usually). the thing is alot of us 30 yr old fans never had a chance to see what we deemed what Yes was supposed to be (that is the current lineup). The first show I saw was 90125 at MSG in NYC, and I loved it, but there was definitely something missing to my ears and that was Steve and Rick. I think it is a blessing that they have reformed to perform for us. To me it is as if Jon Lennon and George Harrison got ressurected and reformed the Beatles and performed live (just to give you the mindset).

PeterCologne

11-18-2003, 05:58 PM

...the thing is alot of us 30 yr old fans never had a chance to see what we deemed what Yes was supposed to be (that is the current lineup). The first show I saw was 90125 at MSG in NYC, and I loved it, but there was definitely something missing to my ears and that was Steve and Rick. I think it is a blessing that they have reformed to perform for us. To me it is as if Jon Lennon and George Harrison got ressurected and reformed the Beatles and performed live (just to give you the mindset).

Bataisflow, have to admit, your argument is the best one for the current lineup I read so far. Can't say much against that. And you will have your classic Yes experience for a while, I think.

Though, if you say that Anderson, Squire, How, White and Wakeman are what Yes was supposed to be, I say again - to me Yes is supposed to be the band of Changes. But let's see how the next album will be. Hope, we all have fun with it.

Greetings

Peter