The end of Yes?...again

[nightliner]

I now we had a topic like this before, But I couldn't find it in a search, so here it is again.

As is posted elsewhere their is an article about Yes in the UK magazine Classic Rock. While I have not seen the article yet, I was told Jon made what could be a very distressing comment in the article. Supposedly he said that if Magnification is not a success, their break could be 4 or 5 years. That's not good if its true. The cd has not sold well in Europe, they have cancelled the dvd audio because they feel it won't sell. A 5 year break could be tough to come back from.

Sorry for the bad news. I don't like it either. Hopefully everything I just typed is a lie.;)

I'm very disappointed by the dvd thing. I hoped that would give Magnification one good push. I'm thinking that Yes' management is incompetent--again. (See Yesyears video for a further discusson this.) Might we have any music managers here that could offer their services? Magnification is too great and it looks like it has been lost in the musical shuffle--in europe anyway. There has got to be some promotion of this release to let the world know how great it is. I would propose a fund that Yes fans can donate to that would go for promotions--if their management can't see fit to get it together, why can't we help them? 5 years off?!!!! I can imagine that Jon is devastated by the poor sales--for something so wonderful as Magnification--the time and energy that it had to have taken to create such a wonderous work of art. I could imagine that this could be the final straw for him and I would not blame him, as Yes has had to fight so many battles for so long. We have got to figure out a way to mobilize to help them get noticed again.

Any thoughts all?

[yesindeed]

Oh great. Now I get to go to bed depressed!!

[1yesfan]

Who really knows what will happen. It's been a GREAT run for these guys. Perhaps its dies off for many years and comes back a DIFF kind of Yes. Rabin/Squire/Igor/Alan/ come back as Cinema or Yes and start cranking out some radio friendly hits that gets some exposure and gets folks buying stuff fromt he the Yes era!

Now I'm the one who is depressed. I'm sure you were trying to be optimistic Tim, but that was not even cold comfort.

I understand that there is a video of this coming out--created from the european tour.

[raz]

Sheesh....
I was scared of them having a long hiatus after this album.
The record (Magnification) is very good, but in the UK, when my sister went to both Virgin Records and Our Price record stores, none of the sales staff had heard of the album (some had not even heard of Yes)! A couple of years back Genisis recorded, without Phil Collins, and they had TV commercials and posters all over the London Underground advertising their new LP. I've also seen Pink Floyd TV commercials as well. Surely Yes' management know how to publicise an LP.... It requires exposure.... the band being booked onto crummy TV shows like the National Lottery would be enough. Everyboudy in Yes can actually PLAY their instruments well, and so I'm sure will IMPRESS whoever sees them. I mean, if Tom Jones can resurrect his career that way, why can't Yes. There are many TV personalities in the UK who are big Yes fans (Vic Reeves and Jim Davidson to name but two), and I'm sure that they would be honoured to assit in letting the public become aware that THE supergroup of the 70's is still alive and kicking.

Yes need to be publicised correctly, and if it means spending a few bucks, then so be it.....

Raz

As for them splitting up....... I think they will be back (as I've a very positive outlook on life when it comes to Yes)

Thank you Raz for your very positive outlook on Yes. I hope sincerely that you are correct. I also agree with you that they need to be publicized. That their manager is not doing this is unconscionable at best. Magnification is too important a work to be allowed to get lost in the shuffle.

[nightliner]

Genevive, there will be a video dvd of the concert...at least there are plans for one. The one that appears to have been cancelled is the dvd audio of the cd.

Dave

[nightliner]

The dvd audio is basically a fancy cd. It is a dolby digital remix of the cd playable on a dvd player only.
That was supposed to come out the same day as the cd. It would of been the first time in history a cd and dvd audio of the same recording came out the same day.

The standard dvd is being filmed during the current European tour and is scheduled to be out sometime in 2002. They were going to film the Moscow show, but it didn't happen. The last thing I heard was they were going to try the Amsterdam show.

[Keith Perks]

I can only agree with what Raz has stated. There has been no publicity given to the Magnification here in the UK. It was at least two to three weeks after the offical release date before i came across a copy.
Although it looks like Ticket Sales for the shows have been good, album sales my still suffer due to the lack of material from the new album being preformed at the shows.

[Devotee]

Maybe they should have done something for the Harry Potter Movie!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Since ya can't pigeon hole the band, they've been resisted by the mainstream for as long as I can remember. Management smanagement.
We all need to buy lots of extra copies to give for christmas/hannukah/kwansa/yule/ramadan?/solstice presents. This would at least give the album exposure, and boost sales. But hey - if they want a break, let 'em have one, they are human after all.

I agree with you Devotee, extra copies would do a world of good--right across the board. It could be looked at as donating to the Yes fund--to keep Yes alive from within the group and outside to the world.

Harry Potter--what an idea! Where was Yesmanagement for that one? They surely dropped the ball on that. Yes would have been the perfect accompaniment to that tale of wizards and witches.

[raz]

I've been wondering about Yes doing movie soundtracks for a couple of years now.
With Trevor Rabin being a pretty sucessful film score writer, surely Chris can get on the phone and get him to pull a few strings and get Yes to do a opening or closing title on a big action film.
Or they could go down the same road that Queen went and do a score for a film like Flash Gordon.... they (Queen) then followed that up with Highlander. The Flash movie was a bit tacky, but the music was ace, and brought a whole new set of fans to the Queen fold. Highlander is a cool movie and some of the music is really good...... and complimented the different moods of the film very well. I can see Yes doing an even better job though as even though I like Queen allot, as musicians they are mere school kids when you compare them to Yes... :) (Freddie had an ace voice tho).
If Yes were asked to write music for a movie, and maybe get involved in the actual film itself (ie, playing in the background In a bar or club in one or two of the scenes, or maybe have the band members doing cameo roles - Steve busking on a street corner for instance) the general public who are not aware of their music would become aware.... I also think that maybe they could even be involved in the screenplay as well!
In my opinion Yes music will compliment a movie on the lines of Harry Potter quite nicely, but I also think that they could score the soundtrack for an action, or sci-fi movie just as well. The song Homeworld has a futeristic side to it and this could be expanded to a film score.... couldn't it? Or what about them doing something like the next James Bond, or Batman, or even Mission Impossible... didn't the guys from U2 do something on the last IM movie? The Smashing Pumpkins did something on the last Batman film, their ending track was very powerful (the best thing about the movie!).
Anyway, if they were to do a movie....... what kind do you think would be good...... Oh, how about putting Tales or Olias on to celluloid!!!!!!

Hope you all are fine out there in Yesland.....

Cheers,

Raz

Fabulous idea raz. That Trevor might just be able to redeem himself after all!

[1yesfan]

This would be a good thing. Will it happen, welllllllllllll. But it would be cool to see Yes do the music for a movie.

[ronw]

I know everyone on my Christmas list is getting a copy whether they like it or not, its a great way to boost sales. Does anyone know where that article with Jons comments can be seen?

That's what I'm looking for too, raz. I hope someone comes to our aid. Your idea of the Christmas list is an excellent one.

(I meant ronw, not raz, sorry.)

[Rogo]

Originally posted by raz
...maybe have the band members doing cameo roles - Steve busking on a street corner for instance

I like that... Steve on a street corner, shabby old guitar case open on the pavement, strumming his derelict old Martin to "The House of the Rising Sun" or maybe "Dirty Old Town"...

[Trevor Walker]

Great idea about the film score !

Yes have already dabbled with multimedia last year (or was it 1999 ?) when they provided the soundtrack to a computer game called Homeworld. The title music of which was inclded on The Ladder.

But hey ! A Lord of the Rings would have been an ideal opportunity for the boys - don't ya think ?

I often had Yes or Olias playing in the background when I read trilogy a few years ago.

Whaddya think ?

Trev

[nightliner]

Here is Jon's comment...

If it doesn't happen [i.e. Magnification does not sell as well as hoped for] then we'll take a break for four or five years. I'm tired of making really great music and not getting the hit album you deserve. Of course, you'd hope that "Don't Go" or "Spirit of Survival" could be singles, but, hey, I'm 57 this year and I don't know if a single is good or bad for me. I wouldn't mind having a hit record, because 'The Ladder' was very badly promoted and not many people got to hear it. We've been promised better this time, but I'm not holding my breath. All I know is that it's [i.e. Magnification] a great album.
Informed of these comments, Howe's reply is also given in the article:
Oh, don't pay too much attention to Jon. He's always saying things like that. He really doesn't mean it. We've got a new album that everybody likes, and that gives us a lot of hope that we're not just flogging a dead horse. For some people [in the band] there's a tendency to worry about the fact that we exist from day to day, or month to month, when Yes have actually existed like that for decades.
But Jon's right in that even if the record's an enormous success and the whole world wants us, we'll need some time off. We've just done 'Open Your Eyes', 'The Ladder' and 'Magnification' all in quick succession, and I wouldn't be surprised if when this cycle's over we do take some time off to get fresh again

[lindil]

The boys deserve amnd would i expect need a break, but as for how many years? Nobody knows , not jon or anyone on this planet. As proof who could have predicted the nearly endless combinations of personell? Or Union? let's be realistic, if yes does anything it wil probably suprise us. Jon at 57!!!! and with his 1st tenor range and enthusiasm very intact! Since after Big Gen I figured we would have nothing more than the occasional Holy Lamb out of yes, I consider AbWh's live album , Keys 1 and 2 a little of union [Rabin's tune's oddly enough, Squire's and take the Water] and a bit of Ladder and the HoY to be gravy on the already awesome Yes enree of the 70's. They are the only band that can go over their old material and make it better than the origianl 20 years later. witness Siberian Khatru from Keys and Close to the Edge from 'An ev. of Yes music +' . If they never do anything else they will have earned a looooong vacation.

lindil
''We hear a sound and alter our returning
We drift the shadows and course our way on home
Flying home- going Home'

[Regeroo]

I can see why so many of our American friends would be alarmed at Yes packing it all in, to be honest they've had the best from the band for many a year while the UK appears to be locked in to a drab pop/hip hop/garage(garbage!!) mentality, partly down to the lack of TV airplay for ANY prog bands. I blame MTV for being too cowardly to let anything be shown that isn't up to the moment or chart material. Even VH1 Classic Rock only gives us Rabin era Yes (OOALH etc) and Wondrous Stories once in blue moon.
If management could get them air time on any shows. would they ( the band) be interested? I doubt it. Yes are, in the great scheme of things, old hat and seen by the music press as an anachronism, even in MOJO, which I subscribe to as the only one tht even admits to music before punk, there is hardly any mention of Yes. The reviews are short and mostly inclined to poke fun at Jon's lyrics, totally overlooking any musical prowess.
In the end we won't get any resurgence of Yes in the public eye 'cause they aren't chart or youth market material. But don't despair, as The Moody Blues are still able to tour to sell out venues everywhere and NOBODY can remember seeing any of their stuff on MTV! Just keep supporting them as we all do, letting them know we care and they'll respond in kind

[Skyward]

These non-definitive plans are indeed Jon's words. However, let's try to look at it from his point of view. No doubt Jon sees the band and himself as being quite talented and sort of like the misunderstood step-child, never getting the attention due him ( the band, in this case ). Crap, so vile and talentless like let's say, snoop doggy dog, Ice-T or Brittany Spears ( to name just a few ), continues to get unbridled recognition while our Michaelangelo musicians are latered off the radio waves! Where is justice I ask you! I would be disheartened as well, especially if I thought what I'd been doing was borderline genius work...comparatively speaking. Maybe they are thinking that their time has come and gone and unlike most, they weren't ready to throw in the proverbial towel. Because of a dedication to both music and us, their loyal following, they felt compelled to give it one more try ( a tough thing to do in the face of the abysmal record sales of "The Ladder" which I thought was a great effort ). They are also so versatile that maybe they thought by "lightening" things a bit for "Magnification", they could make a reasonable stab at a ressurgence in a market dominated by uncertainty. Who knows? One thing is for sure, after thirty years plus in the business, theirs is a committment unrivaled in music today. You gotta love 'em for that ( along with the thousand other reasons we do ).

It's possible that a break may serve to reinvigorate their creativity, that little component of songwriting that I thought they were still riding high on. They are musicians, extremely clever ones and although their management has been the pits, I feel whatever decision they make about their future will inevitably be the right one. Of course, this 'hiatus' Jon speaks of could be just the stuff stories are made of, granted, a not-so-wondrous story. Let us all hope they will still be doing it as long as their fingers stave off arthritis and their voices remain song-ready!

[WhiteKnight]

One idea that comforts me is that, as we all know, Yes are musicians. They can't stay away from music, the won't stay away with music.

Perhaps, Yes as a band could take a rest for a few years. But, see things positive. This could mean that we'll get an Olias II or some new solo stuff from Chris, Steve, collaborations, who knows what.

Yes world is diverse, wide, and to me, still partially unexplored. I've got all Yes-labelled projects, but the guys have been doing a huge amount of music in many forms, and I still haven't collected it all. To me, all this music is part of a Dean dreamy landscape. Yes albums stand tall like perfect buildings, but there are weird animals and trees and rivers and lakes and tiny pretty waterfalls all around, and all are worthy of my attention.

:)

WK

[Topographic_Oceans]

I agree with raz. It boils down to shiitty marketing. Can you buy a Yes t-shirt without going to a concert? The answer is *yes* but I had to dig and scratch and claw to find a licensed vendor. Let's look at the Grateful Dead. They had and still have a merchandising operation where they sell t-shirts, stickers, CDs...etc. In other words, they were smart and did not rely solely on album sales. They had a three-pronged approach to revenue: concerts, albums, and merchandise.

Yes is relying on concerts and CDs as their primary source of revenue. I don't count DVDs because the general masses (including myself) do not have a DVD player. In other words, they have a small market for DVDs. Now if the blokes released some of this stuff on VHS, I would get it.

Furthermore, the yesworld website boasted that Magnification would be prominently displayed during the "competitive holiday season." I got news for the Yes marketers....(pause)...I went to both Best Buy and Borders and there was no Magnification display. There was no Mag display. Creed, Britany Spears(spelled wrong I know), and other crap had the prominent displays. In addition, I bought Mag at Borders on Dec 4 and found only 2 CDs in the bend. When I left, there was only 1 Mag CD. Now explain that?

Yes' marketing team (if there is one) needs to be given a good horse-whippin' .

Magnification is one of their best albums.

Originally posted by Topographic_Oceans
Yes' marketing team (if there is one) needs to be given a good horse-whippin' .

Magnification is one of their best albums.

Let's line them all up so we can all have a shot at them.

[soundchaser]

As far as the MAG DVD audio is concerned, according to YESWORLD it hasn't been cancelled. It has been rescheduled for May 28.

Hope this is still true

Long live YES

[YYY]

The End of Yes is always on my mind. after every tour I worry about not seeing them LIVE again.
The new music is great but compared to not seeing them in concert really freaks me out.
I was concerned about MAG getting alot of support outside hardcore fans. I think they needed atleast one real 'ballbreaker syncopated funky masterpiece' song on the album to hook the headbangers and technoheads.

Originally posted by YYY
The End of Yes is always on my mind. after every tour I worry about not seeing them LIVE again.
The new music is great but compared to not seeing them in concert really freaks me out.


Yes I do too. I have to do my best to chase those thoughts out of my head. Right now, I'm focusing on their 2002 tour and contemplating how many times I'm going to get to see them. That helps for a while anyway.

[raz]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Topographic Oceans....
How can this be remedied? Well, in my opinion I think that somebody who has a vested interest in the Band as opposed to his/her wallet should be hired to promote/sell the Album.
It's all well and good being able to go on line and but merchandice, but it's better to be able to go to a highstreet store and see half a dozen Yes Tee-Shirts on the rack. The Album art work is amazing and even if you don't really know the band I'm sure some people would buy the shirts just for the images they portray.....
I believe that the world is round and it has a liquid core made of strawberry jello... no hang on, different thread... no I believe that the way to market the band is for them (Yes) to acquire a couple of Yes fans who are experts in Marketing and ask them to assist the promotion. Now, if I were asked to do such a thing, I think I'd do it for nothing, spend my own money doing it, and go bankrupt at the same time. There are 1000's of people out there who have never even heard of the band, let alone their music. Money talks, and to get the band recognised they need to be up there on TV or the Radio where the masses can hear them.
OK, not everybody likes Yes music... but if you take 100 people who have never heared the band, I would wager that 30 of them would like them, and 15 of those 30 would become fans......
I live in an apartment block in Sharjah UAE. I am going to do my bit by taking a load of images of Yes albums, and making a small poster kinda thing and put it on the building notice board where people put stuff to buy and sell things. I'll include the recent and old stuff on the 'poster' and amazon's url so people know how to get the music.....(id'd rather put the address of a shop, but although Virgin Records, the only real recod store in Dubai, has a YES slot... it was empty when I took a look at it the other day when the store opened!) if you have any other ideas what should be included, speak now.... or forever hold your peace (that always made me laugh... can't imagine why tho!!!)

C Ya

Raz

Originally posted by raz
no I believe that the way to market the band is for them (Yes) to acquire a couple of Yes fans who are experts in Marketing and ask them to assist the promotion. Now, if I were asked to do such a thing, I think I'd do it for nothing, spend my own money doing it, and go bankrupt at the same time. There are 1000's of people out there who have never even heard of the band, let alone their music. Money talks, and to get the band recognised they need to be up there on TV or the Radio where the masses can hear them.
OK, not everybody likes Yes music... but if you take 100 people who have never heared the band, I would wager that 30 of them would like them, and 15 of those 30 would become fans......
C Ya

Raz

I think you are entirely correct. I know I'd do it too. I do it now: giving inservices at the records stores on the wonders of Yes and how they should be promoted and played all the time, playing them at work, allowing my co-workers to listen to my copies--initiating interest, e-mailing radio stations with my preference, giving Yes to everybody on my Christmas lists--like'em/know'm or not--they're all gettin' em. A true fan with marketing expertise would be Yes' strongest ally. Do we have any marketing geniuses here?

I also think that you are correct of the people who would appreciate Yes if given even half of an opportunity.

[nightliner]

Based on the comments in this thread, nd many others, I think we are all marketing genuises compared to the ones working for Yes. Its obvious we do more for the band than they do. I just wish someone with the band would realize it.

[Topographic_Oceans]

RAZ:

I am not sure what the solution is to this "little" problem. I too would welcome the opportunity to buy a Tales or Relayer t-shirt or some other Roger Dean scene. I went to the Masterworks show and could not find any "epic" merchandise. The T-shirts at the show had the cave-man/primitive yes logo with a dragonfly. That was not very appealing to me. I did not care about having an insect on my chest.

As far as the album is concerned, it is one of their best (top 3). I will be so bold and arrogant to trumpet it as their best album. Why? Because I have listened to it non-stop since Dec 4. I was afraid I would overdose on it but it has not happened yet. You have to be real careful with new albums and exercise moderation to not overdose on them. I keep the weekend free of Mag, and on Monday it goes down like a tall, cold glass of ice tea (sweet) on a blistering summer day--quite refreshing.

That said, the problem is not the album or the music. I have seen many bands play Sept 11 benefit shows and also for New Years Eve. Even the fricken The Who played for a New York benefit. Where has been Yes? U2 is getting a lot of exposure for their bland "All that you can (or is it can't) leave behind" album which I have. One thing that has helped is that they have played for the above events.

The Grateful Dead increased its "customer base" by playing surprise free shows at college campuses..etc. The Dead were marketing masters. They allowed fans to haul in recording equipment and tape shows. This energized the fans and made them want more. Instead of hurting sales, sales increased. The Dead is a marketing benchmark.

[Devotee]

perhaps some of those marketing master's from the dead can come back to life to promote Yes. i must admit to seeing a moderately prominant display of Yesmusic at Border's in Federal Way, WA.
As long as Yes grow's it's fan base, which does include music for younger people than the die hard trooper's and and yessnob's (i humbly include myself here), AND they enjoy making music they will continue in some form or other. Touring is hard. Special shows recorded with "outakes" from studio sessions would be awesome dvd's, and I know there are enough fan's who would eat that drek up with a spoon. One a year would be sufficient. They could even record a series of shows from different angles - all Jon;all Chris;all Steve, etc. Lot's of room for lot's of stuff.

[nightliner]

In regards to the above the new Genesis Way We Walk dvd has 4 viewable angles on almost every song. You have the ability to watch just Phil, or Mike, Or Tony, or...whatever, whomever.

[Original_Shifty]

I've got that dvd. It's just.....:crybby: I can't make it work!!!!!

:wstupid:

[BillGuitar]

I now we had a topic like this before, But I couldn't find it in a search, so here it is again.

As is posted elsewhere their is an article about Yes in the UK magazine Classic Rock. While I have not seen the article yet, I was told Jon made what could be a very distressing comment in the article. Supposedly he said that if Magnification is not a success, their break could be 4 or 5 years. That's not good if its true. The cd has not sold well in Europe, they have cancelled the dvd audio because they feel it won't sell. A 5 year break could be tough to come back from.

Sorry for the bad news. I don't like it either. Hopefully everything I just typed is a lie.;)

See?
There's nothing new except what has been forgotten

[smatt]

Alas, Mr Bill it will indeed end at some point.....

[TRUEYOUTRUEME]

I'll take it as it comes.

I'll still pray for a new album from Yes though. Please.