Talk - how do you rate the album [Archive]

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Mr. Holland

09-16-2003, 08:35 PM

So what will be the outcom of this thread, will the majority of fans on this site vote pro Talk, or against it, come on, cast your vote!

I voted for, I absolutely love it!

ycantibu

09-16-2003, 08:50 PM

I absolutely love it as well.

Thoughtbecontact

09-17-2003, 12:11 AM

Silent_wings

09-17-2003, 12:48 AM

deelovesyes

09-17-2003, 06:59 AM

I love Talk

Dee

BrianD

09-17-2003, 08:25 AM

While I like it more than I did when it was released, it is an album I get only limited enjoyment from. To me it is a very cold, impersonal album.

09-17-2003, 09:47 AM

Talk achieved the following:

1) it was the pinnacle of cooperation between Yes's two leaders (Rabin and Anderson)

2) it was the first "futuristic" Yes album, advancing into musical structures that were not based upon earlier structures

3) it contained Rabin's first fully progressive effort, "Endless Dream" (counting BG's "I'm Running" as his first fully progressive experiment)

4) despite the presence of the poppish "Walls," it contained more variety than any previous YesWest album (compare "I Am Waiting" to "Real Love" to "Where Will You Be" to "Endless Dream")

5) it contained a host of deferential references to earlier Yes (Rabin's neo-country licks in "The Calling," a nod to Howe's own hybridization of country stylings; the sonata-form theme development of "Endless Dream," harkening back to the same technique in CTTE; etc)

6) the "choir"-style vocals of the Anderson/Squire/Rabin team achieved a new high in "The Calling," on a par with "All Good People"

It is the YesWest masterpiece, improperly promoted and misunderstood by many (Drama was similarly given an unjust hearing) ...

This kind of success, as with Drama, vindicates the spirit of Yes that ideally should exist apart from any particular line-up or era. We go on and on about how it's really "about the music," rather than our fannish slobbering over this member or that, or the comforting womb drone of the Yes version we loved when we were kiddies. Well, is it about the music or isn't it? If so, then we need to give each and every Yes album a fair hearing apart from our social prejudices, and realize that Rabin and Horn and Moraz and Sherwood and Banks may not have been born into the skin of Howe, Anderson, Wakeman, blah blah, but that they still gave their best and the magic of Yes is richer for it ...

Bravo, Talk! Bravo, YesWest!

Q

ycantibu

09-17-2003, 04:22 PM

This is one of the reasons I like Talk so much. Every track was so different.

Originally posted by Q
Talk achieved the following:

despite the presence of the poppish "Walls," it contained more variety than any previous YesWest album (compare "I Am Waiting" to "Real Love" to "Where Will You Be" to "Endless Dream")

This was a big problem. Huge Rabin fanatic and the only reason I knew it was being released is because I had received a postcard in the mail.

It is the YesWest masterpiece, improperly promoted and misunderstood by many (Drama was similarly given an unjust hearing) ...

Bravo, Talk! Bravo, YesWest!

Q

Mr. Holland

09-17-2003, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by Q
This kind of success, as with Drama, vindicates the spirit of Yes that ideally should exist apart from any particular line-up or era. We go on and on about how it's really "about the music," rather than our fannish slobbering over this member or that, or the comforting womb drone of the Yes version we loved when we were kiddies. Well, is it about the music or isn't it? If so, then we need to give each and every Yes album a fair hearing apart from our social prejudices, and realize that Rabin and Horn and Moraz and Sherwood and Banks may not have been born into the skin of Howe, Anderson, Wakeman, blah blah, but that they still gave their best and the magic of Yes is richer for it ...

Bravo, Talk! Bravo, YesWest!

Q

Q, do you have some kind of sixth sense and looked into my heart? Cause, you just put in words how I feel, and I haven't been able to find those words! Thanks, thanks, thanks!!!!

Erdy1

09-17-2003, 08:48 PM

I'm so glad I grew out of my Anti-Yes-West phase (couple years ago). In retrospect I see it was really silly and narrow minded of me. I still don't care for the poppier elements of this period of Yes, but Talk has some wonderful music on it.

JudysTrevor

09-21-2003, 05:35 PM

Very well said Q. Talk is my favorite Yes album, along with 90125. Trevor did an AWESOME job. I would have loved to hear what would have been next.

Judy
:guitar:

BredYes

09-22-2003, 04:14 AM

I absolutely love it. It's the best Yes album with Rabin. When it was released I was a bit disappointed. I had hoped for a collective album by the 8 Union members or an album by the current classic line up. But when I listened it a couple of times I really liked it.

PeterCologne

09-23-2003, 07:11 PM

... and can not give many more explanations for its grace, than the ones mentioned here, especially by Q. Talk was the end of the process, that started with 90125. Right from the start Rabin took in the leadership in Yes with many respect for heritage of that group. On his solo-albums before,there are not much signs of Yes, but as soon as he was a member, he transferred his very own ideas into the spirit of Yes. To a lesser extent on 90125, but even there he orientated his playing to the world-music approach
of earlier Yes-albums, like Tales or Relayer.

It can happen has something of the arabic feeling of Tales, Changes is not soooo far from the jazz-approach of Sound Chaser. Of course there were the influences of Chris and - later - Jon, while making the album. But Trevor was able to to do his thang, but to blend in Yes-characterisms in his very own way. Some other examples, of course the call and response-like
background singing, which got even more elaborated with his strong voice in it. But also the typical interplay between melody and rhythm he revived in a new way. Even in Owner this is obvious. The melodies dance around rhythmic, and the rhythms seem to sing, full of melodies - like in Close To The Edge,
the track, maybe. Enlarge Owner to a 20 minute miece and would be the younger brother/sister of CTTE.

Trevor continued to do so on Big Generator and Talk, but with more and more cleverness. And he added new dimensions. More hard edges, like in City Of Love, an very own interpretation of HipHop in Leave it. And here I have to state a point, which differs a little from other posts here. Q stated, that I'm Running from Big Generator was Rabins first fully progressive success. I say, the whole Big Generator-album is already a triumph of a new progressive character. With loads of new dimensions.

Rhytms and Melodies on Big Generator are much more tricky woven together than on 90125 as the basis - and upon, besides and arround Trevor and the others, inspired by him, built a whole new Yes-world. Shoot High, Aim Low is maybe the re-invention of Blues. Steve never attempted Blues, but Trevor did, and out came this fascinating Hybrid of progressive-blues, technique on
the blue (cotton)-fields. Big Generator, the song, combines Rock, Electronic and the possibilities of a modern studio.

Never ever like the Beach Boys Pet-Sounds the studio was used as the sixth - in the case of Yes as a quintet - member of a group. It is an anthem to modern life in the city, with all the sounds of a city, like Sound Chaser was in 74. And don't underrate Almost Like Love, a convincing progressive-music meets HipHop affair. And there is more, just mention Rhythm of Love as as avantgarde-pop. Only the Beatles and The Beach Boys of the late 60s, early 70s managed to put in so much musical layers and experiments in such a simple - on the surface - earworm-song.

Big Generator is just a breath away in quality from Talk. It is - after Tales and Relayer and Talk my yes-album number 4. And without it, Talk would not have been possible.

So, Bravo to Talk and Big Generator and 90125, the tripple triumph of Yes-West. Bravo to them all, Trevor, Chris, Jon, Tony and Alan. And please, Do It Again.

Greetings

Peter

DaveJB

10-11-2003, 01:14 AM

bender

10-28-2003, 05:02 AM

"Right from the start Rabin took in the leadership in Yes with many respect for heritage of that group."

Are you sure about that Peter? I remember reading an interview with Trevor where he played a bit of ACDC during ISAGP on the Union tour just to stir up Steve! - I'm sure it worked too. I remember someone writing to NFTE and saying that Trevor doesn't seem to have respect for earlier Yes music, and to some extent I agree.

"Enlarge Owner to a 20 minute miece and would be the younger brother/sister of CTTE"

Is that a joke? Owner is certainly well produced (not surprising with Horn at the helm and newer technology), but musically, Owner is bland - thats all I can say about it.

"Big Generator is just a breath away in quality from Talk."

Another joke yet I'm not laughing. Perhaps I have the worst CD copy of Big Generator you can get because this album is just appaling from a musical point of view. Yes there are some nice moments and little subtleties that great but they seem buried in the "pop" mix of the album. (and speaking of the mix - where's Chris?). It's probably the only Yes album I have where I have to fiddle with the graphic equaliser on my stereo to get a decent sound out of it.

Talk is certainly the best produced Yes west album and I like it quite a bit but there is still that feeling that its a more straightforward rock album (except for Endless Dream which is really excellent).

Dr Yes

10-28-2003, 11:46 AM

I love the live tour that followed, at least the new stuff (coz I thought they murdered most of the Classic Yes material) - does that count as a vote to the positive?

PeterCologne

10-30-2003, 07:28 PM

"Big Generator is just a breath away in quality from Talk."

Another joke yet I'm not laughing. Perhaps I have the worst CD copy of Big Generator you can get because this album is just appaling from a musical point of view. Yes there are some nice moments and little subtleties that great but they seem buried in the "pop" mix of the album. (and speaking of the mix - where's Chris?). It's probably the only Yes album I have where I have to fiddle with the graphic equaliser on my stereo to get a decent sound out of it.

Talk is certainly the best produced Yes west album and I like it quite a bit but there is still that feeling that its a more straightforward rock album (except for Endless Dream which is really excellent).

... I think we have a different way of dealing with the word "produced". First of all, I thing Big Generator is a magically arranged album, I still discover news details, 16 years after its release. The sound might not be as clear as on Talk. But it is like a strange wizard-brew. A good production, for my taste, must not always sound clear and tranparent. There are other possibilities, remeber the tight sound of Led Zeppelin albums, the instruments seem not to be cut from each other, but mixed together to a kind of wall of sound. I like that. And BG goes in that direction. I find the sound of that album extraordinary good.

Concerning your other remarks: I can understand, that Trevor at some point dissed Howe, because Steve gave Rabin much ---- for his excellent work with Yes. And even a little AC/DC quote can be a welcomed and creative addition to a yes-song. I still think, Treveor had much respect for earlier Yes-stuff. Rumour has it, that he wanted to do more rareley played classics on the 90125-tour, but Jon and Chris opted to do just the old favourites. And hey, listen to the Starship Trooper-version on the 90125 video. It is my favourite one of this song. It has a lot of fresh details and so much energy.

Greetings

Peter

ycantibu

10-30-2003, 08:26 PM

Peter: Howe hasn't been very respectful towards Rabin either. No use even going there though, it would be a never ending fight. :)

Mr. Holland

10-31-2003, 05:30 AM

[QUOTE=PeterCologneConcerning your other remarks: I can understand, that Trevor at some point dissed Howe, because Steve gave Rabin much ---- for his excellent work with Yes[/QUOTE]

I think, Peter wanted to say "because Steve "didn't gave Rabin much ---- for his exellent work with Yes", but forgot to put "didn't" in.........

PeterCologne

10-31-2003, 08:28 AM

... that is, what I wanted to say: Howe has given Rabin so much S H I T. Think Steve is sometimes a jealous guy - at least concerning Trevor. Howe should accept, that those Rabin-Yes-albums belong to the most cerative ones of that group. But hey, all in all Trevor always has been very generous. If you read the two interviews with him on Notes From Tne Edge this year, he really behaves like a gentleman concerning Howe.

Arno, thanks for moderating, but I wanted to say, Howe has given Rabin so much S-H-I-T, lol. How are you, by the way? Was great to meet you.
And ycantibu, maybe we meet in the chat some time, maybe together with MrHolland and others, who see the grace in Rabions contributions in Yes.

Greetings

Peter

Peter: Howe hasn't been very respectful towards Rabin either. No use even going there though, it would be a never ending fight. :)

bender

10-31-2003, 10:11 PM

Peter-

We obviously have very different tastes when it comes to the production (recording?) of music.

I personally can't stand that whole "wall of sound" approach.

I like each instrument recorded with as much clarity as possible - so that when listening to a song you can (if you like) concentrate on the sound of just one musician.

The Eagles Hotel California is an excellent example of this recording technique - as are the remastered versions of Elton John's early 70's albums.

And putting ACDC into a Yes song is simply bad taste IMO.

Jackaranda

05-02-2004, 11:35 PM

It's a great album, period, start to the amazing finish.

Years from now I believe it'll be one of the most respected Yes albums ever.

Gabriel

05-13-2004, 08:40 AM

I love Talk I think its a great album and a fitting end to the Rabin era Yes. It has one of the best songs they ever did IMO, Endless Dream. That alone is worth the price of the album.

Strangly enough, it took me a while to get into the other songs for some odd reason, as they were different to what I thought they would be like but now I love them; brillaint album.

Jackaranda

05-13-2004, 08:51 AM

Talk is one of the albums that was "lost" to me for quite a number of years, primarily because I just didn't like Union and was very disappointed in it. I never heard anything off it until this past January, but now it's one of my top 5 Yes albums. I see it as the most polished and ambitious YesWest effort.

Bingo!

Talk failed commercially for a number of reasons that I went to great lengths to point out in my earlier Yesfan days. Union was reason #1. It sold at least gold (maybe platinum, I'm not sure), and it was really disappointing, and the casual fan who bought that record wasn't about to buy the next Yes album. If Talk had come out in 1991, instead of Union, it's mho it would have been multi-platinum.

yesrolfer

05-13-2004, 09:06 AM

I really enjoyed seeing the band do Talk live. I saw them in PA, in an outdoor venue with the rotosound system. It was a great show!

As to the material on Talk, I felt it was the culmination of what Rabin was as a Yesman. To me, Endless Dream always had the feel of a swan song from Trevor Rabin. Thoroughly enjoyable, but a farewell piece to Yes.

Man, you brought back memories. That show was at Star Lake near Pittsburgh.
I was not a huge "yeswest" fan, but "Talk" caputured the essense of my being at that time. It was a time of tremendous change and growth for me and my relationships with others. Some thought at work that I had found "Jesus". I let them think that cause it was sweet and touching that I had noticably made huge conscious changes.
Just the thing to "Lift me up" and get me out the door. I think I'll take "Talk" with me also.
BTW, It was a very good show. Jon talked alot of "spirituality" had my brother scraching his head! He didn't know the reincarnation concept.
It is still has favorite album along with "The Ladder".
I really gotta go. :thumbs:

Emily A. Poppe

05-13-2004, 05:07 PM

I LOVE TALK!!!! I saw the TALK show on tour - it was AMAZING!!

Jackaranda

05-13-2004, 07:09 PM

I LOVE TALK!!!! I saw the TALK show on tour - it was AMAZING!!

How old were you then?

It's great to see young Yes fans!

Timmo

05-13-2004, 07:12 PM

Very well said Q. Talk is my favorite Yes album, along with 90125. Trevor did an AWESOME job. I would have loved to hear what would have been next.

Judy
:guitar:And, in spite of this, I still love ya Judy!

TIM
Venice, CA

Timmo

05-13-2004, 07:17 PM

Enlarge Owner to a 20 minute miece and would be the younger brother/sister of CTTE.

:dog:

TiM
Venice, CA

GoD57

05-13-2004, 08:04 PM

I absolutely hate this album!!
You guys can analyze the production to death, I simply cannot listen to Talk one more time. I've tried several times but it does no good.
I've never commented on the Trevor versus Steve debate, because it just doesn't matter. Yes is Yes. No matter who's playing at time.
I do like 90125 and BG, I even like Drama, so this has nothing to do with the lineup.

just my opinion
Bill

JudysTrevor

05-13-2004, 08:07 PM

And, in spite of this, I still love ya Judy!

TIM
Venice, CA

Tim,

Wouldn't you wonder what a Trevor/Rick album would have sounded like? Only God knows!! ;)

Oh!! I love ya too!! :valintine

Judy
:guitar:

Timmo

05-13-2004, 08:12 PM

Tim,

Wouldn't you wonder what a Trevor/Rick album would have sounded like? Only God knows!! ;)

Oh!! I love ya too!! :valintine

Judy
:guitar:
Judy: :valintine

How about a Trevor/Moraz album?

Tim
Venice, CA

PS: I wish I was in Madison Square Garden right now!

Jackaranda

05-13-2004, 08:36 PM

GoD57

05-13-2004, 11:23 PM

Thanks Jack...Not sure everyone will. I like to make my own decisions. If Gene Simmons played bass on a Yes album I'd give it a listen before I decided if I like it, not that I want that to happen....

Bill

OPIOWORLD

05-13-2004, 11:33 PM

Treasured memories for me! It was the album that I played during the delivery of my second son, Lucas Gabriel, and I can truely attest to the "Miracle of Life" as Luke's was saved that day! (hence, the Gabriel!) I will forever treasure that album! Besides, I appreciate the mix of Stever and Trevor, just like I appreciate Drama, it is what it is!

pianozach

06-21-2004, 06:59 PM

Talk is one of my all time favorite yes albums, if not my favorite.

Then again, I seem to be in the minority in terms of what I feel the most genius Yes albums: Talk, Relayer, Drama, Tales, 90125, Yesshows, Union.
And just add fuel to the conflagation: The Worst Yes albums: Big Generator, Keys to Ascension I, Yes, Going For The One.

And just one more thing: How many times are they going to release And You and I? I've got it one CTTE, Yessongs, Yesyears, Classic Yes, Ultimate Yes, House of Yes, An evening of Yes Music Plus, and Yes-Today.

Or Starship Trooper? AEofYMP, K2A, Extended Versions, Ultimate, TYA (2 versions!), Highlights, Yessongs, Yesyears, Classic, and even on Tales from Yesterday and SymphMusic of Yes.

I'm sure there's more. But I really must remember to stay on topic . . .

Z

Earl Grey

06-30-2004, 04:16 AM

Scooty

06-30-2004, 05:18 AM

Zach! You iconoclast you! Haha! :ele:

I love most of TALK. 'I Am Waiting' is one of the finest Yessongs of the last decade.
Trevor always seems to get a bad rap, but if not for Trevor YES would have had long unproductive periods.

Classic YES rises from time to time. It's an organic thing. It cannot be forced.

And if not for the various 'Trevor' periods, there would be some blank spots in YES's history.

I like TALK. And there are a few songs that I love on TALK.

It's a good album, and it gets slammed more than it should.

EG:yesbird:

Concur...Talk is highly underated as a YESALBUM

The Calling
Im Waiting
Endless Dream
State Of Play

top notch brilliant YES MUSIC...no doubt...shoulda sold millions..but the record label VICTORY..couldnt pull it together long enough to get the album sold..hence..low sales and low attendance on the tour..its a shame..it was worth more than anything post Drama's weight in gold

Scoot

Mr. Holland

06-30-2004, 05:37 AM

All that could go wrong with Talk did go wrong. After the Union tour there was lots of squabeling about what to do, where to go, with whom etc. I think that by the time Talk was released a lot of fans didn't even know that Yes was still around doing something. I know I didn't. I stumbled on to Talk purely by accident. I was selling bookclub subscriptions door to door in Amsterdam at that time and was in somebody's home when the Calling was played on the radio and the DJ announced it as a song from the new Yes album. I remember that during my lunch break I went to the nearest record shop, saw it, was very surprised to see it was the 90125 line-up and bought it imediatly. I never knew they did a tour following the release of the album, but since it was a U.S. tour only (which was I recon also due to circumstances, because from what I've read the intention was there to do a world tour) that's not a real surprise.

I think Talk really suffered from all the things surrounding it that went wrong.
As we've seen with the Ladder and Magnification to for example, when there is hardley any promotion and publicity for an album, then an album won't sell no matter how good it is and Talk is certainly a very, very good album!!

Rick N Backer

06-30-2004, 06:49 AM

Koko

07-05-2004, 12:08 PM

Talk achieved the following:

1) it was the pinnacle of cooperation between Yes's two leaders (Rabin and Anderson)

don't you mean they didn't argue as much....and that was only because they 'knew' ole trevi was on his way out...so Anderson let him take controls on production etc

2) it was the first "futuristic" Yes album, advancing into musical structures that were not based upon earlier structures

I think you'll find that the first 'futuristic' album by Yes was Close To The Edge - because at the time of it's creation & release - Nothing and I 'DO' mean NOTHING - had ever been done like it before - whereas the production and some of the songs on Talk are pretty much available on many Big hair AOR albums - it's only Anderson's voice and lyrical input that save it from being - a aerosmith wanna be album)

3) it contained Rabin's first fully progressive effort, "Endless Dream" (counting BG's "I'm Running" as his first fully progressive experiment)

True.

4) despite the presence of the poppish "Walls," it contained more variety than any previous YesWest album (compare "I Am Waiting" to "Real Love" to "Where Will You Be" to "Endless Dream")

I disagree - for me 90125 and Big Generator knock anything on talk into a cocked hat...

5) it contained a host of deferential references to earlier Yes (Rabin's neo-country licks in "The Calling," a nod to Howe's own hybridization of country stylings; the sonata-form theme development of "Endless Dream," harkening back to the same technique in CTTE; etc)

Endless dreams in any shape or form comes No-Where near anything on "Close To The Edge"
The inventivenessand originality within Close To The Edge has yet to bettered by Yes...in any of their line-ups, or on any albums

6) the "choir"-style vocals of the Anderson/Squire/Rabin team achieved a new high in "The Calling," on a par with "All Good People"

:dog:

Wow!...like The vocals of Yes have ALWAYS been of the Very Highest (as in THE BEST) quality - . But, to compare the vocalisations on the calling with the superior (and yet simpler) arrangement & layering (and timing) of the vocals on "All Good People" - is for me 'unreal'

It is the YesWest masterpiece, improperly promoted and misunderstood by many (Drama was similarly given an unjust hearing) ...

I agree that Drama was not given the 'musical and critical acclaim it deserved and deserves...though many have now come around to another way of seeing it....but talk...is simply a high volumised/over produced rabin 9semi-solo0 effoort...that has it's best qualities only by virtue of the contributions from the other 4 members....

This kind of success, - but it wasn't as successful as people 'try' to make out.

vindicates the spirit of Yes that ideally should exist apart from any particular line-up or era.

indeed Yes music should - but talk doesn't.

We go on and on about how it's really "about the music," rather than our fannish slobbering over this member or that,

from what I've continually (and endlessly read on so many (yawn) posts & threads - around rabin and his (claimed importance to Yes 'Music' - it is simply that 'fannish slobbering' over rabin

or the comforting womb drone of the Yes version we loved when we were kiddies.

funny but it's mostly the kiddies (minded) that prefer what they refer to as yeswest

Well, is it about the music or isn't it?

ABSOLUTLEY I COULDN'T AGREE MORE - (Sadly) talk - is not up to the musical high tide that so many have come to associate with the term "Yes Music"

If so, then we need to give each and every Yes album a fair hearing

I remember being (as usual) so Excited that a new Yes album was coming out - got to the store/shop on the morning of release - and damn was I dissapointed - pity really but hey there you go.

apart from our social prejudices,

so if someone dislikes 'talk' they have a social prejudice???

and realize that Rabin and Horn and Moraz and Sherwood and Banks may not have been born into the skin of Howe, Anderson, Wakeman,

blah blah,

I sometimes get the sense that some people are more a rabin fan than a Yes Music fan.

but that they still gave their best and the magic of Yes is richer for it ...

I think Pete Banks, Patrick Moraz's and Horn & Downes contributions were exactly that their best - but the finest Yes Music still can be attributed to
the band when rabin was not present. - excellent guitarist though he is.

Q

But hey there ya go - one persons apple is another person's orange.

koko

cinderella

07-05-2004, 06:03 PM

I love Talk. I think it's a beautiful album. :valintine

Endless Dream
I Am Waiting
The Calling
Real Love (great guitar solo at the end of the song.)

It was Trevor's swansong.

pianozach

07-06-2004, 02:51 PM

And don't even start me on the cover!

:eeek:

Oh come now, at least the Talk cover was fresh, original and colourful.

Do you rag on it because it wasn't a Dean cover? I mean, GftO was clever, what with the five threads and naked man and wierd seascape inside. And Tormato had a sense of humour. And while I love the insides to CTtE, the outside was . . . well . . . kind of barren, don't you think.

If someone decides to start a thread for WORST Yes album covers, I think you'll see more votes for OYE (remember Us, we're YES!!!!) and TYA (American cover). And Keystudio - real similar to OYE, but with an Iron Butterfly background. And maybe even 90125. And BG - just a big computer-generated BiG. And how about The Best Of Yes from 2000? Looks a lot like the Moody Blues Greatest Hits cover. Or how about Geographic Potions from the same year (with the goofy looking drawings of Jon, Chris, Bill, Peter and Tony? Well, maybe these unofficial albums shouldn't really count . . . .
:dog2:
Oh, the topic. Talk. Great album. Great cover. O.K., O.K. Maybe just an O.K. cover, but far from sucky.

And we shouln't judge a book by it's cover, or in this case, a cover by it's album.

Koko

07-07-2004, 05:49 AM

But hey there ya go - one persons apple is another person's orange.

koko

For the past two nights - having arrived home from work,...I have played and tried to listen to 'Talk' - to see if I am missing something...something I wasn't aware of before.....and I just still come to the same conclusion - that 'talk' is the lowest point in Yes' recording history.....Obviously there are quite a few people who get a great deal from it.....I just think it's bland (creatively and musicallY) compared to other Yes Music.
The production is 'tinny and thin' and very - sharp - as if it has an aggression about it - and by aggression I don't mean that it has "Balls" - but it has an 'Unpleasant Edge' to it (no pun intended I assure you).
In some ways it could be said that those of us who find the album lacking are the losers as I wish I could find the same 'Excitement' from it that for me is in all other yes music - to varying degrees.
Thing is , I also find all of rabin's solo stuff - banal and uninspiring - it's as if there's no 'Poetry in his soul' -

but hey! Apples and Oranges.

Koko.

Flo

07-07-2004, 08:41 AM

Koko, you said exactly what I feel about Talk. I remember my first impression when I bought it on the date of its release. I thought it was not a Yes album. I was very disappointed and I was disturbed by what you call this "unpleasant edge". I listened to it once and then I left it aside for several years until I started visiting this forum. From reading so many positive reviews here, I had to try again. Now I can say that I don't hate the album as I used to and even appreciate some tracks. Still it is not really Yes to me.

Mr. Holland

07-07-2004, 08:55 AM

pianozach

07-07-2004, 04:55 PM

The fact that no Yes album sounds like another, is to me what makes it all Yes. The [diversity] of it all, trying it all, that is what is so wonderfull and to me so typically Yes.

Hear, hear!!!!
:cheers:

Koko

07-08-2004, 11:50 AM

I do get that people like some albums better then others, as Koko said "apples and oranges", but I'm always a bit surprised when people start talking about how it is not really Yes to them. It's not that I don't understand what is meant, I think I do, but to me the thing is that there are so many different Yes albums with different sounds, different musicians, different ways of composing, writing etc. that it's hard to say something is typical Yes. I mean Relayer sounds, to me, completely different from Close to the Edge (Gate of Delirium, talk about agression in a song, btw), so if I were to say that CTTE is really Yes to me, would be saying that Relayer isn't really Yes and vice versa.
The fact that no Yes album sounds like another, is to me what makes it all Yes. The deversety of it all, trying it all, that is what is so wonderfull and to me so typically Yes.

I hear what you're saying Amigo, BUT...for me there is a certain "Feel" to Yes music...it has a certain something about it - maybe it's that 'Magical Blend' of the co-composers/creators of the music ...anderson, howe, squire , wakeman, white - that X-Factor....but what ever that 'certain something' is....it is lacking on the talk album....I'd go so far as to say the album's boring...it just doesn't 'Ring' with that magic.....that many have come to relate to Yes Music.

By the way ...I wouldn't call Gates Of Delirium 'Aggressive'...the subject matter(s) it deals with War & Peace - well there's little worse than War (in whatever form that may take) - it is 'Scarey' in places - in its accurate portrayal of war/battle/death/pain...and all the horrible aspects & affects of War & Warfare....I mean "Burn Your Children's Laughter Onto Hell" isn't exactly a nice image conjuring line to say the least - but it does convey the Horror of war - it's affects and what people do become and will do under such circumstances.....so to call it aggressive ?....I use the term 'aggressive' in re;lation to the 'production' in talk...because the producer (rabin) seems to be trying to 'Force' the music & sounds down the listeners throat....not something associated with Yes Music.....in terms of quality, subject matter or energetically..........

the apples and oranges may occupy the same dish, but they each have their own fragrance, colour shape and 'taste' ;)

Koko.

Timmo

07-08-2004, 05:04 PM

I get the above poster.

For me, Drama through Talk has a different 'feel' the the rest of the ouevre, at least from TYA on. Poppier, colder, simpler perhaps.

TIM
Venice, CA

cinderella

07-15-2004, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by Rick N Backer

And don't even start me on the cover!

I didn't care for the Talk cover at all.

I get the above poster.

Poppier, colder, simpler perhaps.

TIM
Venice, CA

Poppier. I like that word. :kissme:

CybrKhatru

07-15-2004, 06:30 PM

I've tried, I really have tried, but I just can't get into it. I've had it 10 years now, and from that day to this I still find the same things with it.....

I find it an impersonal album. Technically brilliant but lacking in any feel whatsoever. There are flashes of brilliance, during Endless Dream for example, but then it drifts off into thin air.
The bass is anonymous. For most of the album, it could be anyone there. There's no real Chris Squire stamp on this album.
For me it has the feel of a Trevor Rabin solo album, with Yes in a (minor) supporting role. Tony Kaye only had a miniscule walk on part for example.

The drum sound is great and the production is first class, but there's just something 'Yessie' missing from it. I still can't quite put my finger on it.

And don't even start me on the cover!

Rick--please don't think that I'm singling you out because I quoted your post--I'm not. But, you make IMHO some important points.

I love Talk, but to be quite honest, I really dislike the production, and THAT'S what makes it impersonal. It's cold, too bright, too "digital" sounding. The bass IS anonymous...but there are reasons for that---there are allegations that Trev may have re-recorded bass parts. Blasphemy? You decide. The jury's out for me :) And it does appear to be a Trevor/Jon duo project more than a Yes album. Sure, it's CLEAR and it's really dynamic, but the sound doesn't all gel together the way it should. And I actually think the drum sound is terrible---sounds like Alan White put through a machine! LOL... If something "Yes-ish" is missing from Talk, I truly think it's the sonics. LIVE, it took on a whole different sound, really...a band much more integrated---better bass presence especially!

It's been reissued in the US but I don't know if it's been "remixed" or truly "remastered". I really wish they would at least try to remaster it, but then again, I don't know how much that would help. Too bad...because I think Endless Dream is wonderful...and I wonder how much WARMER it could sound.

At least Big Generator has been given the HDCD treatment in Japan. I used to have to re-EQ the hell outta my old CD to get BG to sound good and balanced. The HDCD takes care of that. I wouldn't be surprised if a "remaster" on par with the new Rhinos (or said HDCD) would change a few minds about BG...at least its sonic qualities.

--Matt, who loves the material and hates the sound!

brotherofmine

07-20-2004, 01:30 PM

Jacaranda

07-21-2004, 06:14 PM

I am not keen on "Talk" and would go along with previous comments about it being impersonal. However what I do think is good is that Trevor gets to understand what is Yes is all about and they try to structure their songs in a Yes way..in other words on the longer tracks, changing themes..changing tempo...the sort of thing Yes is famous for and didn't really happen (excuse the pun!) on 90125, or BG. I think The Union experience was good for Trevor and understood what was needed to make it Yes music, so all credit for that. Unfortunately, despite this, it didn't really work for me. Cinders will probably kill me for saying it...but it is my honest opinion.

I don't think Trevor's understanding of Yes is really the issue. He didn't come into Yes to make Yes music; Cinema, based on his material, got turned into Yes. TR was not crazy about the idea, but just because he went ahead with it doesn't mean he should have been forced into 'understanding' the essence of Yes, and write and perform in accordance to that essence. TR is his own musician; if he would of tried writing or creating material to please the Yes fans, changing tempo or longer tracks, Big Generator and after would have been HORRIBLE!!! You can't force that stuff...TR even said you can't just sit down and say "Well, I'm going to write Endless Dream today, since I'm doing a Yes album".

The thing I admire about TR that he gets torn down for by so many for is he stuck to his guns. He collaborated with the rest of the group on the material, played Steve's stuff well and did the music HE wanted to do. Yes isn't about being a 'Yesman', as in yes, I'll play that just the way you want it, or yes, I will do what I'm told. TR could have went ahead and did TALK by himself, but he sat down with Jon and worked together with him while still fighting for his own sound. If that isn't what Yes is all about, I don't know what is.

Jackaranda

07-21-2004, 06:19 PM

[QUOTE=cinderella]I didn't care for the Talk cover at all.

Even I didn't like the cover. Another Yes decision that's always been beyond me. But they've done worse as far as covers go.

In retrospect, I still think Talk is a great album. No less than that. If I were to change anything I'd lose Tony Kaye and either have Rick on it or maybe even somebody new. Or Geoff Downes. Anybody. Tony was OK on the album (what little he actually played) but live he brought the show down a few notches. It was great live, but Tony Kaye was disappointing.

Stever

09-23-2004, 07:58 AM

[QUOTE=cinderella]If I were to change anything I'd lose Tony Kaye and either have Rick on it or maybe even somebody new. Or Geoff Downes. Anybody. Tony was OK on the album (what little he actually played) but live he brought the show down a few notches. It was great live, but Tony Kaye was disappointing.

Isn't this the album where TR and Wakey WERE supposed to finally work together? Can't remember where I read that, but it fell apart anyway. Pity. It's one of my favorites as it is. It would have been in the top three ever. Heck....maybe it is anyway. But you're right, all Tony did was noodle around a bit on organ.

InverYes

09-23-2004, 08:27 AM

Well I've just bought this and am listening to these tracks for the first time now. Ridiculous for a man of my age not to have heard this before, but I like it.

No minor dissertation.....I just.......like it.

Jackaranda

09-23-2004, 04:31 PM

Isn't this the album where TR and Wakey WERE supposed to finally work together? Can't remember where I read that, but it fell apart anyway. Pity. It's one of my favorites as it is. It would have been in the top three ever. Heck....maybe it is anyway. But you're right, all Tony did was noodle around a bit on organ.

Yeah and I believe Rick didn't play on it because the record company contract stated it had to be the 90125 line-up. Now if that's true, they deserved to go bankrupt (which happened while the band was touring to support the album). Rick would have definitely helped the sales and concert attendance, although I doubt the album would have sounded much different.

I STILL long to see Trevor and Rick work together in Yes.

The Whale

10-12-2004, 11:18 PM

I love this album it isn't my favorit but its right in the middle. It is perfict for some moods that you get some times. This is in my mind the best Howeless yes. I love everything I have ever heard Jon Anderson do. This is just another wounderfull peice of music for people to enjoy.

soul warrior

10-13-2004, 12:39 AM

i like this cd alot, but there is one song on there that i really don't like. "Walls"
they should have used jons counter melody at the end for the chorus instead of the cheesy rabin hook.

Topographic][Sardaukar

10-20-2004, 09:28 AM

He won't admit to it but one of the older boys actually liked it.
He said it was ok.
That's high praise from a teen.

I'm 16 and I love all Yes music. I also have several friends who are rabid fans as well. You don't have to be 50 to have the intellectual capacity to appreciate wonderful music.

Sonoacustico

10-20-2004, 10:42 AM

I Love Talk, and it did hit me hard because it was that tour the very first time I could see Yes live (you know, being in Chile I don't have that chance very often) ;)
Love The Calling, Real Love and specially Endless Dream, the first Yes classic from the 90's

Greetings

Claudio

satyam

12-08-2004, 06:48 AM

I think Talk was ahead of its time just as YES are and it has fallen prey to critisizm to many times for no apparent reason, we have to admit that YES West was the strongest vocal incarnation and this is well encapsulated throughout this album, my only complaints would be more Tony Kaye and Chris Squire they were virtually non-exsitant on TALK

vtchatman

01-30-2005, 12:52 PM

i liked it when it first came out and got it again recently but it just doesnt do anything for me anymore and like the other rabin productions are going to be sold, actually they are quite depressing to me now and their mid 80s to mid 90s pop music makes me sick now, just cant stomach it.

Vic Anderson

01-30-2005, 12:55 PM

endless deam is great nomatter what people say
i don't think there is a yes fan who can say endless dream is rubbish

crotale2112

02-14-2005, 05:48 PM

I like the talk album. It seems for the first time jon and trevor worked closely together on a full project........I guess.
I find that it's very digital sounding and not to warm to my ears yet it is very creative and fun to listen to. I wish thay recored the album on some phat 2 inch tape for that warm buttery sound, but I think the whole thing was done on a harddrive.....oh well.
Real love is fun to play loud and test your low-end frequency in your stereo.

My only problem with talk is walls. I think this song sucks and I wish it never made it on the album. It's almost as bad as don't go.:worm:

Jackaranda

02-14-2005, 06:01 PM

Trevor said they put Walls on the album because the record company liked it and thought it'd be a hit. He apparently didn't like it either.

Which begs the question: Why on earth did they choose to do Walls on David Letterman?

Jackaranda

03-12-2005, 01:47 PM

I think Talk is a great Yes album.

Wait...................have I said this before somewhere?

KPatrick

03-17-2005, 11:02 PM

I was disappointed in TALK when it came out. I know conventional wisdom is that it is the best of the YesWest stuff, but if I've got to pitch one of those CDs out the car window at gunpoint, TALK goes every time. Don't get me wrong, I like it, but there's something about the album as a whole that I just can't get my heart around. Which is wierd, because as I type this, I think of the individual songs, and sometimes one will pop up on my iPod, and I really dig it ('cept for "Walls" and "Where Will You Be."). So I can't figure out why the album just leaves me slightly cold. But we're talking about music, not math, so maybe it defies explanation...

Dr.Bass

03-19-2005, 09:16 AM

Possibly the best produced album by Yes. So what if Rabin was pulling the strings, this is a great album. Plus the cover artwork is fantastic.

Skyward

03-19-2005, 01:53 PM

There can be no question as to the "new feel" that TALK engenders for it was designed to take YES in an almost entirely different direction, anchors away and all that. Sure, Rabin took much of the helm, but I fail to see where that hurt a band that remains in a perpetual state of musical exploration. Sorry, though I feel DRAMA would have been far better with Jon on vocals, the end result was very agreeable, IMHE ( estimation, I dare to be different ). The same applies to all Rabin efforts with YES as far as I'm concerned. Steve elected to abandon ship and for that void to be suitably filled, I think the South African peformed marvelously, especially on this, his third studio YES endeavor. Was I glad to see Steve return? Yes, but I'll spare the reader an invitation to another Howe vs. Rabin match here.

I don't find a single number on this effort to be lackluster, that's right...even 'Walls". I say this with respect to this song in particular because there seems to be a tendency to bash it based on its sing-songy, somewhat cheesy lyrical content. Okay, so it's not a lyrical da Vinci, so what? It's fresh, very dynamic and well-composed musically. I especially love the way Jon takes over on the vocals at the 3/4 mark. Heavenly surround effect I say to you! "I am Waiting" represents a merger with the new and old YES and the effect is stunning! "Endless Dream" is a masterpiece in every sense and requires no further commentary. Hey, they're all good! Great effort! Still, given the option, RELAYER, TFTO & THE LADDER will spin more often in my machine, but TALK always manages to work its way in there too.

BTW, I think the cover art is pretty weak compared to the imaginative work of Roger Dean.

justyes

03-19-2005, 02:14 PM

I like it. It's not the best Yes production but the best Yes-With-Rabin production.

sunburstbasser

04-11-2005, 02:43 PM

I like it. Probably my favorite of the Yeswest era, and to me it captures some of that classic Yes vibe with the Rabin-era sounds. I like it, at any rate.

soporjoe1

04-11-2005, 02:52 PM

I like it. Probably my favorite of the Yeswest era, and to me it captures some of that classic Yes vibe with the Rabin-era sounds. I like it, at any rate.

YEP!

a great album that harkens back to a fun time in my life when it was released.

The Whale

04-11-2005, 03:14 PM

I love this album. missed Union would love to see Trevor play with the boys. I don't care for really any of the yes west stuff except this album. its a perfect blend, know I am waiting! oh well some day hopefully!

Steve St Thomas

05-10-2005, 10:41 AM

PART ONE:

This is kind of a review, my history with Yes as a fan, all combined.

I honestly was YESWEST fan from day one. I just don't think you can beat the combination of Trevor Horn as a producer, Trevor Rabin as a songwriter, and Chris Squire in a more upfront role (which was the case until Anderson's arrival). It is just a winning combination, and 90125 is just an album that I am amazed at the selection of songs, the amount of time put into making them (particularly LEAVE IT and CHANGES), and how much energy comes from that album. It is such a positive, almost uplifting album in its spirit, especially when you compare it to something like DRAMA or RELAYER, darker, often moody albums (but two of my top 5 Yes albums!!!!). I get bewildered as to what designated Anderson the belief that Owner of a Lonely Heart was 50% his, especially after listening to the demos Rabin had of the song, the 7 months CINEMA worked on the entire album, and what a difference 3 weeks vocal recording really didn't make to what would have been a successful album anyway.

I saw YESWEST 3 times on the 90125 tour, and I just wish the entire concert was on DVD, because one of the best moments was during HEARTS. It was just such a fantastic show, and that song live had just as much power as AND YOU AND I. I absolutely went back to the 90125 album after the show and listened to Hearts non-stop for weeks. ust to recapture a portion of what I saw the band do to the song live. Apart from the fun it looked like they were having, all 3 shows I saw. Rabin & Squire just fed off eachother, never giving the 2nd night performance any less than what the 1st night's performance had. By show 3, I just thought Yes with Rabin was one of the best combinations I had ever heard on album, or saw live.

So believe me, the 4 year wait for BIG GENERATOR hurt.

I could not wait for another YES album after 90125, and that was a long time to wait. But I knew by the time I got to HOLY LAMB, that something wasn't right. Don't get me wrong, I love that album. I don't think of it as less than 90125, just different. And part of me heard a bit of a battle between Anderson & Rabin about what Yes should be. Thing is, I own a lot of Rabin's solo work, and if he was allowed to do what's in his creativity and talents, Anderson would have got what he wanted. Just listen to Rabin's soundtrack work, there are some beautiful and powerful arrangements in songs lasting no more than 5 minutes. And songs that reflect TODAY like Gone in 60 Seconds BOOST ME, which I enjoy more than the whole of the OPEN YOUR EYES album. But I don't think Anderson or the Fans were willing to let go of what they may think it is they want, which is absolutely impossible to reclaim, because no one stays 25 years old forever. Maybe its that, I don't know. I just know if Yes had kept doing Close To The Edge over and over again, they would have bored not only themselves as musicians, but also their fans as well.

I still listen to BIG GENERATOR today, and like someone else said, STILL hear things happening in the songs that I missed! Especially with better equipment that can capture what the production and engineering is like on that album. There is a great section in I'M RUNNING where the whole song stops and drops, to begin the verse marimba thing (if I had the CD here I'd tell you when), and the bass note that gets hit there is so low it's friggin wonderful. If you're listening to this on vinyl or CD on headphones, this album is a production masterpiece. There are great sounds and ideas all over it. The weird vocals at the end of BIG GENERATOR, the guitar and drum speed up section in the same song, the mixture of old and new Yes stylings on FINAL EYES, and that song in particular could fit on THE YES ALBUM with ease, considering Tony Kaye was so integral to their early sound. I actually get chills everytime Rabin sings 'A Way' in Love Will Find A Way when everything stops and he just sings the line on his own. Alan White's drumming on SHOOT HIGH AIM LOW just makes the song, and Rabin's acoustic solo in the same song just stands out to me as one of his best solos in his entire career in Yes. The vocal intro to Rhythm of Love is beautiful, and honestly with Rabin, they had a vocalist who was as distinctive as Anderson & Squire. When I hear Steve Howe sing on The Steve Howe Album, he doesn't have an unpleasant voice, and he oddly sounds like a less confident Squire. They almost have the same tone. But he's no Rabin when singing. And YES with three great vocalists only did good for YES. Rhythm of Love's intro shows that, and I just love the section where Rabin sings one line, Squire sings the next (Information ......) and Anderson finishes it up before the guitar solo. It's just an awesome moment in Yes vocals.

Steve St Thomas

05-10-2005, 11:55 AM

PART TWO

But this is an open letter to all those fans who witnessed YES Live in the 70's, who are probably looking at what I'm saying about 80's Yes with a :shrug: (if at all). I am honestly jealous of anyone who got to see YES during their 1976 tour with Moraz, because from what I've seen that QPR shows, RITUAL live, when everyone in YES was in their late 20's, early 30's and had the energy to perform the piece (;)) looked absolutely incredible. I would love to have seen that live and in person. The whole show/tour in fact looked great, and of course it showcased one of my favourite, all time never get rid of Yes albums RELAYER. Which I think rivals CLOSE TO THE EDGE in just overall quality, incredible musicianship, and sheer power. Even though Steve Howe's guitar sound is sometimes frightful on Relayer. :shoot: Especially on SOUND CHASER, ouch. Nothing against the guitar playing itself, which I think is great, I just know a lot of guitarist friends I have avoid Howe like the plague because of his sound. It can kill your ears sometimes.

So hopefully it's understood that I really do like Yes in all phases of its career, maybe some portions more than others, but as much enjoyment as I get out of Big Generator, I get that same enjoyment out of Gates of Delirium. That same enjoyment from Does It Really Happen? Or Perpetual Change. Or the whole Fish Out of Water album ;). There's just some personnel in the band I feel keep the band from changing, or being as much as it could be. But I'm also aware of its business and financial decisions, and that is at least 50% of the reason why YES does what it does. Not all those decisions I've been pleased with, and I don't think its helped them out one bit, nor the direction the band could go in, if just left alone to create music. Nor am I always happy with Fans, and the direction they'd like Yes to go in, but I'm no different really. Maybe I'm just less purist than some. Maybe I just don't like the Birotron. Maybe I just don't think Topographic Oceans or Going For The One are Yes working at their best. Certainly there are moments on both albums that do truly shine as some of their best work, but sometimes it's a long wait for those moments, and I guess the line-up I have the hardest time with is the Anderson - Howe - Squire - Wakeman - White lineup. All I know is Parallels would have sounded better on Fish Out of Water. That's alI I know.

Steve St Thomas

05-10-2005, 01:20 PM

PART THREE

I also saw YES at least 3 times on the BIG GENERATOR tour, but I think even then I got this funny feeling something wasn't right. It wasn't Squire or Rabin, they were the same as on the 90125 tour.

And then the whole ABWH thing happened, and I was wondering what the hell is going on here??? I still bought the album at the time, because I was interested in what they came up with, I was a fan of Tony Levin (because of his work with Peter Gabriel and King Crimson). But I also quickly sold it, after feeling that the best work on there was Fist of Fire and Birthright. I actually just picked it up again in its limited release vinyl gatefold version, and gave it another chance because:

A) I'm a Vinyl fan
B) I hadn't heard it in over 10 years
C) My views and perspectives have changed in that time
D) I have always given albums another chance, especially the work YES has done between 1996 and present. I even had to do this with my recent purchase of THE UNKNOWN by Conspiracy, because I'm not that big a fan of Billy Sherwood. But I kept listening to it, and now I'm wondering what Chris Squire has been doing in Yes for the past 9 years. New World is just a great piece of writing and playing, and I just wish he'd ask Rabin to do a guest guitar spot on a Conspiracy album.

Listening to ABWH a decade or so after the fact tells me that:

A) I still think Fist of Fire and Birthright are the best things on it.
B) It has its moments that I was maybe unwilling to see back in 1988/1989 because of prejudices and upset.
C) Brother of Mine is actually better than what I used to think of it, but I still think the ending section is a bit 'too jolly' for my tastes. I still don't think much of Teakbois.
D) I might have to give it another chance, but I'm sold on two songs, and that's just not enough for a whole album.

So I wondered what was happening to YESWEST, and why did it have to happen in the first place??? I thought everyone was enjoying themselves, well at least Squire, Rabin & White seemed to be, and Tony Kaye was still in the band as far as I knew, and his presence on Big Generator was much louder and obvious than on 90125, so it looked like it was all going for the long haul. So ABWH just filled me with huge disappointment, and I didn't see how it could be worth it to mess with what was looking like a productive and successful version of YES.

Then 1989 went into full swing, and their's a Trevor Rabin solo album. OK. So what was happening? I absolutely love Can't Look Away, and I had to wonder how come it only took 2 years after Big Generator for Rabin to come up with material, but 4 years to come up with Generator (barring the huge tour they undertook). Can't Look Away for me is a Yes album that never was, and it fills a gap in Yes albums so sorely present, especially with what was coming on the horizon. In interview though, Rabin stated that the next Yes album was nearly half complete, and there was no mention of Jon Anderson not being involved, or his departure. It all seemed up in the air. It shows in 1990 that part of Lift Me Up had been written on Rabin's solo tour, leaving Squire to possibly come up with its verses? That's my guess. But it seemed YESWEST was still on, and that there's material still hanging around from the time between 1988 and 1991.

And then YESYEARS comes out, and it gave me an opportunity to hear what CINEMA actually sounded like. And to this day I still prefer the Cinema version of It Can Happen. All it's missing is the final production value that 90125 was given, but everything that was needed for the song was already there before Anderson came in. Make It Easy I hadn't known existed, and the more I listen to that song, the more I wish there was a Cinema 90125 released. And I had also heard part of it as the live introduction for Owner of a Lonely Heart. With the Yes Tag removed, I have no doubt that Cinema would have reached success. Maybe not as much as the brand name YES gave it, but with a lot less hassle, and less baggage accompanying it. Cinema would have been a great band with just Squire, Rabin, White and Kaye. But I ain't got a time machine to go back and tell them just call it Cinema, forget the managers and lawyers and Steve Howe's complaints even though Asia was even more commercial than YESWEST. :P

And then Love Conquers All shows up, with credit given to Billy Sherwood, but with Trevor singing. And I was wondering what is going on here, and who is this person? And I've never really thought much of the song personally, and I was wondering why Squire had begun writing with this 'Sherwood person' when he has Trevor Rabin as a guitarist and writing partner. It just seemed all wrong, or things were just not right. My first signs of 'Oh no' starting showing up.

So YESYEARS the boxset just put me into confusion. On one hand hearing how great Cinema were before Anderson and the Yes Tag, and on the other wondering what was happening to YESWEST at that time. Was it all done? Who was Billy Sherwood? How come Chris Squire is now writing with him? What happened to the material that was halfway done for the next Yes album that Rabin spoke about only 2 years before? What was going on? And will I have to pay for it.

And then UNION came out. And honestly my heart sank. I did not jump for joy at the prospects of an 8 man Yes lineup, even with the combination of Squire & Bruford possibly joined up again. I was worried about what was happening to Squire & Rabin, and if that was just over and done with. But then reading the credits showed me that YESWEST still existed, the mysterious Billy Sherwood shows up again, but at least Squire & Rabin wrote Lift Me Up. I wondered who Mark Mancina was, but Miracle of Life was absolutely my favourite song on the whole album. And I wondered why ABWH needed 15 guest artists to come up with somewhat mediocre material, or rehashes of City of Love that Howe supposedly hated. I Would Have Waited Forever was interesting, but I honestly thought the YESWEST songs were much better, more cohesive, and at least there were only 4 people on the songs. And it reassured me in some way that Squire & Rabin were still eye-to-eye, or at least still collaborating in some way, somehow, and Squire hadn't jumped ship. Especially with a person like Rabin who had literally saved ''Yes'' from extinction, and given them the most successful portion of their entire career. I think my respect for Squire would have jumped ship if he had abandoned Rabin. I don't know why.

What respect I have for a complete stranger other than them being another human being I can't explain. I just respected Squire for his obvious musical talent and gifts, and for me no matter who was in Yes, I knew as long as Squire was in it, there would be some amount of credibility with it. I have always thought him to be the most gifted musically of the entire band's career, and I have always had an admiration for 'The Quiet Ones', because more often than not, they tend to be the ones when released from a 'group' situation, that come up with material as good as the team effort. And often better than those who get much of the limelight. The Quiet Ones, like John Entwistle, George Harrison, John Paul Jones, and Chris Squire, are so integral to the group's sound, that when you hear the members of the band on their own, especially the more celebrated icons like McCartney, Lennon, Page and Plant, you realise how reliant they actually are on that silent member of the band. You actually hear how much of the band's sound and atmosphere, and maybe even its experimentation and innovations come from this hideaway from the limelight personality.

The experimentations with rhythm, sound and other music, come from George Harrison in the Beatles. As soon as he picked up a Rickenbacker, a Sitar, became one of the first owners in Britain of the Moog Synthesiser, began experimenting with Indian rhythms and notation, he changed The Beatles. He was the first to comment on social and political issues. He could switch styles in The Beatles with the drop of a hat, and made Beatles Pop Country, sound more like Country. He gave them signature licks and melodies that are as much a part of their work as the songs themselves. And his albums on his own actually consistently get rated high marks moreso than the two guys who are more celebrated. Practically all of his solo albums get compared to his 'masterpiece' All Things Must Pass, and that album sold more than his former partners first two solo albums combined. And he was writing songs like Isn't It A Pity back in 1966. He wasn't learning how to write songs like Lennon and McCartney, he wasn't even writing Pop back in 1965. He didn't care about it. He saved his best songs until he stopped getting 1.6% of the publishing royaties through Northern Songs (though McCartney and Lennon received 15% each for his songs), and received 100% of the royalties through his own Harrisongs Ltd. Which he had formed back in 1964 when McCartney and Lennon were signing away the rights to their songs. You have to watch out for the Quiet Ones, they'll surprise you everytime.

I could go on about John Paul Jones, who's last 2 solo albums have made Page and Plant's 20+ year solo careers seem in vain.

The point is, and I was glad to read Trevor Horn felt the same way about Chris Squire, but actually had 'interaction' with the person to know better than me and my hunches, is that UNION really messed me up. But I've stuck with Yes for a glaringly apparent reason, because it has Chris Squire as a member.

Steve St Thomas

05-10-2005, 01:46 PM

Part Four is going to basically state why I think Talk is the last truly challenging album the band Yes has issued, why I had no clue it was released back in 1994, and why it's one of my favourite Yes albums. And why I don't get the reasons that Yes ''purists'' finally acknowledged Rabin's talents on Endless Dream, when I heard them back on 90125. Was it because the song says its 15 minutes long? Is that what says its Yes, if its more than 10 minutes? Or if it has multiply named sections? I hear just as much ''progression'' or ''art rock'' in I'm Running, Final Eyes, Cinema, Make It Easy, It's Over, Miracle of Life, Lift Me Up, and i wonder what took non-Rabin fans so long to notice what the guy had been doing all along, but in 5 minutes rather than 15 or 20.

And why Yes have not truly interested me since, even though I have everything right up tol Magnification to say otherwise.

Steve St Thomas

05-10-2005, 01:53 PM

Thats of course with my assumption you're interested!!!! LOL!!!!

Moodyblue

05-30-2005, 06:36 PM

This album takes me on a journey everytime i listen to it.
On first hearing, i didn't quite know what to make of it so it got shoved aside really for a good three years until for some reason, it was in my CD player on long night's back from Leeds to London and it really started to grow on me.
"Endless Dream", wow what a track, pure Yes music !

Bugeyes

06-02-2005, 01:26 PM

:1quiet: I voted...

Hi Moodyblue.

somissound

03-21-2007, 07:57 PM

the Fattest bass pedals I have ever heard on a studio album! ;)

Trevor did some great slide guitar work too..

This album Rocks.

yesplease

03-22-2007, 04:06 AM

I have to say, after reading this thread I'm tempted to give Talk another listen. It's not my favourite album by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't hold any of the YesWest efforts in high regard (with the exception of 90125, which was ground-breaking with its synthesis of prog-pop).

To me there is a large grey area between 90125 & The Ladder (ignoring ABWH & Union) with the pinnacle of Magnification to redeem the previous decades of west-coast sterility. I really like Rabin's style, I just feel the results were too mechanical.

Ah well, tin hat on ready for the flak......

cvp18

03-22-2007, 04:36 AM

I absolutely adore "Talk." this is one cd i constantly play at home. i love the vocals, the way they blend especially Jon & Trevor's voices playing off of each other. of course, i am still catching up and exploring all the Yes music i missed out on. that's one thing i really like about the Essentially Yes collection in that it contains the cds i had never had before including "Talk." then, it's on to "Magnification!"

Jackaranda

03-22-2007, 09:20 PM

somissound

03-26-2007, 08:37 PM

I just wish the drums weren't so robotic on the album. I wonder how much Alan really played on it....I remember on Rockline Alan saying, rather sarcastically, that the producer (Rabin) was a better drummer than he was....

I prefer the live versions of the songs nowadys.

The live versions are great...:appl[1]:

As for the album...Alan's drum were pro-tooled big time and replaced with a lot of drum samples..The gated verb sounds cool though .It would have been great if it had the Drama/90125/BG production with more of Alan's real drum performances...I dig the way he pushes and pulls like an orchestra, sometimes a click track or grid can take away from the feel...

Maybe you have noticed this Jack...I was listening to Walls and noticed another voice rather than Anderson/Squire, singing along with Trevor. Is it Roger Hodgeson?? I heard there were a few guest surprises on the record...?:thinking:

new_sum_do_solve_ay

03-26-2007, 11:59 PM

Can't believe I hadn't voted here yet! I like Talk: it has some really brilliant moments. Silent Spring, the Calling in particular. But it has some 'off' sections that make it seem like it was less well planned than the high level albums.

yesplease

03-29-2007, 02:41 AM

I have to say, after reading this thread I'm tempted to give Talk another listen. It's not my favourite album by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't hold any of the YesWest efforts in high regard (with the exception of 90125, which was ground-breaking with its synthesis of prog-pop).

OK, I had Talk in my car CD player for a couple of days - and I'm really loving it! I've got an mp3 player so I ripped a bunch of albums to cd so I have a selection of Yes from GFTO to Talk on one disk - Talk definitely shines, especially alongside albums such as Big Generator.

Silent_wings

05-11-2007, 01:10 PM

Yup
Love it
I made the Boy Scouts listen to it on the way up to camp.
My car, I pick the music!
He won't admit to it but one of the older boys actually liked it.
He said it was ok.
That's high praise from a teen.

It's now become a tradition to listen to Talk on the way back from River Rafting each year :D
Some of the boys hate it :gok:
But it fits in with the scenery perfectly.

CybrKhatru

05-11-2007, 02:18 PM

luckeydoug1

05-11-2007, 04:15 PM

Absolutely love it!

The Whale

05-11-2007, 04:47 PM

.It would have been great if it had the Drama/90125/BG :thinking:
Funny you say that because BG actualy saw the first song that had completly all electric drum programing with no alan.

somissound

05-11-2007, 09:15 PM

Funny you say that because BG actualy saw the first song that had completly all electric drum programing with no alan.

What song is that? BG??

Songs like Tempus Fugit, Hold On, Shoot High Aim Low, I'm Running etc. have such a great production/performance...

Talk rocks...Real Love, I am Waiting, Endless Dream are some of my fav's...I hear samples of drums and cymbals though..and the sound of edit's...

Critiquing some of the greatest music on earth.....:lmao:

FieldsOfGreen

05-12-2007, 08:57 AM

I absolutely love it!

Steve Mahoney

05-12-2007, 09:19 AM

FieldsOfGreen

05-12-2007, 09:31 AM

There is some quite frankly mind altering emotional music on Talk.
There is a certain energy on some tracks here that just take you somewhere else .Endless Dream for one and I am Waiting get me off my set playing air guitar everytime without fail.
I just make sure I do not do that in public.

Steve

Steve, I agree 100% with every word you said. Talk is everything but cold. The sound is very clean but emotions are here. Some songs can make you cry while others have enough energy to make you want to move mountains!

Wakey's #1 Fan

06-24-2007, 06:10 PM

I like it, it's the best 80s line-up album. My favourite is Where will you be...I love Jon's voice on that track...maybe I should use it in part three of my cartoon movie? Let's see...

kristen T

06-24-2007, 06:12 PM

Each album release has been a joy, I became a fan in '79. After brushing up on all the previously recorded music I eagerly awaited more. I was never let down. Life was rough when Talk came out - Endless Spring spoke to me, it was what I needed and it kept me going. It was tight and well produced, the sound was big and absorbing. It's hard to evaluate each band member when the whole is always greater than the parts - I love them all even thought I consider the 'core quintet' the most important.

marklovesyes

06-25-2007, 02:30 AM

"Talk" is actually a great album to introduce YES to some one new. Never had someone not like it who I have played it for.

MrZuLu

06-25-2007, 04:29 PM

Sonically, this is a beautiful album, particularly on "Where Will You Be" and "Endless Dream". I used to use it to test my hi-fi in the mid 90s. Although....a little analog warmth would suit it nicely. Was "Talk" ever issued on vinyl? I don't think it was.

I agree about the drums being robotic though; a shame that it was so "fixed" with Digital Performer.Nope... never pressed in vinyl
Talk was the first 100% digital Yes recording. Even live it was all digitally reproduced. Back when Sonic Solutions did live music and produced some of the finest Mac based hardware ever invented as opposed to PC software and multimedia hard and software.

Jackaranda

07-03-2007, 02:14 AM

"Talk" is actually a great album to introduce YES to some one new. Never had someone not like it who I have played it for.

Yep. Exactly.

ZachMN

07-03-2007, 10:26 PM

I was so excited to find this forum and see threads such as this. I absolutely love this album. I knew of Yes before 90125 but Rabin brings an element to the band vocally and musically that Howe just doesn't have.

As far as Talk I remember hearing The Calling once and never heard it or saw it around. Then one day a feew years ago I was in an outlet mall and there it was for like $2.00!!! I knew it would be good because of 90125 and BG.

There is something about 'I am Waiting' that just brings me to tears. I can't put my finger on it but that doesn't matter. Please feel free to PM me about anything having to dowith this band or this music.

Zach

Senor Mono

07-05-2007, 07:58 PM

Talk absolutely ROCKS.

I love it when Yes move into the future!

Hope Trev is bored with soundtracks and ready to blow some minds with a new Yes, including Howe. they were ALL having fun at the Trevor Horn concert!

Without all the pressure on them to match the sales/success of 90125 back in the BG/Union/Talk era, Now they could make real Yes album with NO singles . Or at least a 7 minute single ;)

No Pressure=honest art.

Hopefully Trevor Horn could produce it so it does not take 3 years to record! Like to hear Trevor R. just be an artist.

True Believer

07-06-2007, 08:13 AM

Talk absolutely ROCKS.

Yes. It does.

Jackaranda

02-28-2008, 11:39 AM

My kids love it to this day.

When Yes kicked Rabin out (which I will always contend is what really happened) they kicked out the young fans with him.

Sunhillow_

03-03-2008, 12:48 AM

It is a nice album.. not that " wow, man" thing...but is much much much better than Big Generator. Where Will You Be and Endless Dream are very good.

The Other Messenger

03-03-2008, 05:25 AM

Terrible album - no soul. Loved Trevor Rabin's work on 90125. This album did not grab me at all. Never did.

Lifeseeker66

03-19-2008, 11:45 AM

Write a punch line

03-19-2008, 02:20 PM

Talk has some stellar highlights on par with anything on 90125. The Calling, I'm Waiting, Endless Dream and the semi epic Real Love. Real Love would of been quite a bit more memorable with more Yesisms interjected into the song structure.
State of Play and Where will you be, both of which I like, but you can hear Trevors vision for Yes music sounding like a Disney movie score. The biggest offender Walls, very limp. I dont skip any songs on Talk because the production sorta blurs the weaker material together. I like it.

Jackaranda

03-19-2008, 02:30 PM

Where is all of this dissing that Howe gave Rabin? If anything, I have only seen dissing from Rabin against Howe from a very conceited, yet seemingly inferior Trevor who has on several occasions labeled Steve Howe's guitar work as "old and stale".

I think they're on good terms now. Trevor was invited to be on the upcoming tour, which had to have had Steve's approval.

coinsandcrosses

03-20-2008, 12:29 AM

Am I the only one who thinks "State of Play" sounds like St. Elmo's Fire (Man in Motion) by John Parr? I'm talking about the part that goes "Can you hear the sirens screaming... take me to the promised land...(all the way til we get to) we're not about to break SAINT ELMO's FIRE!!!!!... okay I added the SAINT ELMO'S FIRE shout at the end but it actually segues nicely... hehe..chris :-)

Steve Mahoney

03-20-2008, 12:34 AM

It is the Best Rabin Yes album by far.

Steve

somissound

03-20-2008, 07:58 PM

I Am Waiting, Real Love, and Endless Dream are my Talk favorites...

Love to hear one on the new tour :headset:

moe712002

05-26-2008, 11:07 PM

Talk will always be one of my favorite Yes albums. It has always saddened me how many Yes fans disliked any of Trevor's work "just because" and I've wondered if that is what really drove him away. I loved the Rabin years and believe that some of their best music was created during that time. I always saw Trevor as the one who breathed new life into the band and and really wonder if it hadn't been for him, would Yes even exist anymore. He clearly took them through the 80s and 90s. Thank god for Trevor Rabin. I am really hoping for a guest appearance at the final show in LA.

SilentTalking

07-19-2008, 07:47 PM

I think Endless Dream is overrated (very much so by some), and I don't care much for Where Will You Be. But the rest is excellent, in my opinion.

pianozach

07-20-2008, 03:29 AM

I still love TALK.

It's been in the car CD changer for over two months now.

There's not a 'dud' moment on the disc.

Geetar

07-20-2008, 05:41 AM

Still one of my all-time favourite albums by this or any other band; but then I am a serious Rabin fan. A lot of why I love Talk has been covered already.

I live in the US at the moment, but will probably return to the UK in the next 7-10 months. I'll be trying to put together a band that does something like this kind of music, so anyone in the lower half of the UK who's interested please PM me (especially creative keyboard players or higher-register singers).

The Whale

07-20-2008, 08:42 AM

I'll never forget I was trying to fill out my collection and I was all about the "classic Yes" and I thought "Yes West" was just ok. All I needed was OYE, Talk, and Union.... I picked them all up in one afternoon for a combined total of $8.97 + tax. Boy was I suprized when I got them home and OYE and Union were duds while Talk Blew me away!

One of the last three albums I heard ended up being one of my top 5 favorites from the band.

I guess I fell pray to listening to the hipe here instead of listening for my own sake... wont do that again.

rembutok

08-30-2008, 10:22 PM

I like it. In fact, Talk and The Ladder are the only non classic albums (TYA through Tormato) that I really listen to.

Love The Calling, I am Waiting, and Where Will You Be. Even Trevor's pop track "Saving My Heart" isn't bad.

Not Relayer, mind you, but much better than BG or OYE to name just two.

Full Tilt Boogie

08-30-2008, 10:34 PM

It has its moments...

rembutok

08-30-2008, 10:59 PM

oops. I meant Walls, not Saving Your Heart. My bad.

Write a punch line

08-31-2008, 05:37 AM

If this album came out today, everyone here would be happy about it.

In a lot of ways this feels like the last real yes album... I know thats cryptic and subjective, but thats how i feel.

elliott

08-31-2008, 08:20 PM

Talk was always one of my least favorite Yes albums. I decided to reasses it the other day and listened to it all the way through. There is some good playing. Otherwise it was worse than I remember. Just awful songs.

oliasdoug

08-31-2008, 08:46 PM

I am glad to see so much positive acknowledgment for TALK being the work of art that it is...and not only will I never understand why there seems to be so much hatred for YesWest from a large number of Yes fans, I also will never understand how anyone could say "I absolutely hate [TALK]!" I mean, to each their own, but really! Can you actually listen to songs like The Calling, Where Will You Be? and Endless Dream (A MASTERPIECE) and say you absolutely hate them? Is maybe a re-thinking in order here?

Again, to each their own...sometimes it's just impossible for me to understand or be empathetic to certain opinions.

crotale2112

08-31-2008, 09:59 PM

The Whale

09-01-2008, 12:05 AM

Very synthetic......... not very warm but some of trevor's best work. I wish they would re-record that album on warm tape and use some analog gear.

Can any of you see trevor using a gibson 175 D. Would it ever happen?

Could I see or hear it? Sure.... would I want to..... No. Also Endless Dream, Where will you be, and I am waiting are far from synthetic.

I'v made the case before.. if this album came out in the early 70's when 35 minutes could make an album Where will you be, I am waiting and Endless dream would have been a master piece.

Senor Mono

09-01-2008, 12:34 AM

the drum samples and low bass volume is not my favorite Yesmoment. Loudest bass pedals I've ever heard though, and i like it!

I would much rather have a NEW Talk type album than another 4 years of NOTHING!

The Calling, I am Waiting(lol), Real Love, and Endless Dream are great songs. imo