Why I don't like Tales

[The Closer Edge]

I hate this album because there isn't a full direction on it. The band were just wankin in the studio to make the songs extra long. They just made stuff up as they recorded. I side with Rick on this one it is a bad album.

[Bugeyes]

I've heard WakeMan say it's like a padded bra, no meat. Um... I'll never touch that one.

Hey Closer Edge, ever go over the edge? The trick is getting back! Who ever goes the farthest AND RETURNS, wins! And I have vacation in little ol' Bryan, TX before, can you imagine that!!! Do you know the Ottea's?

So, welcome aboard, I've noticed your posts already. Gawd, look what you stirred up. Remind me to stay clear of you, rogue waves usually take me out to sea, see? But, I always manage return.

[The Closer Edge]

I don't know the Ottea's. But yeah Tales might have some good parts I just don't think it's the classic album that alot of people say it is. The classix for me are Close to the edge, Fragile, Drama, The Yes album, And Magnification. I haven't heard all of the ladder but I'm about to get it in the mail. I like everything I have heard from it though.

[Insane Teacher]

I am not a big Tales fan. It turned me off of Yes in the mid 1970s. It just meanders too much for my taste, and the recording is sub par. The drums, in most parts, sound like plastic garbage cans to me.

That being said, I really love the live version of Ritual on YesSymphonic, it is just incredible. I liked The Revealing Science of God live during the 2002 summer tour. I love the Leaves of Green piece, and I enjoy the studio version of Ritual.

Closer Edge, I hope you like The Ladder. It is what reawakened me to Yes in 2000. I just started listening to it again and I really enjoy it. Yes really integrates influences from several styles of music and ethnic influences in this album and they pull it off well, in my opinion.

[Erdy1]

It took me a while to get into Tales. A lot of it was how I listened to it. I feel the best way to listen to tales (no, no drugs are involved!!) is to close my eyes and just let it take me along as it wanders. It's so peaceful and relaxing.

[yesindeed]

It took me over 20 years to get to like tales.. and then really only Ritual in any quantity. However, I think it was a necessary step in the evolution (devolution?) of Yes. Fragile and CTTE represented, imho, such a burst of creative energy that Tales may represent more of an afterglow than a pinnacle... It takes a while to appreciate it and if you don't like it then that's ok too... there's lots of other Yessongs to keep us going eh?!

[Erdy1]

It's funny, one of the few Yes converts I've made over the years became hooked with Tales, of all things. After listening to a few samples of various Yes albums, she asked to borrow Tales. I warned her that this might not be the best one to start with, but she would not be deterred. She listened to it several times in the next two days, instantly loving it! One of her favorite parts was the beginning of the Ancient.

Of course, she really liked Kronos Quartet and other "Avante Garde" sorts of music, so Tales kind of fit right in!

[PO]

Originally posted by The Closer Edge
I hate... The band were just wankin in the studio...They just made stuff up...


Hmmm. You must be an expert musician. Why don't you give Steve Howe guitar lessons?

For another ultimate in "wankin", try Gates of Delerium. You'll be asleep in 2 minutes.

I just can't get enough of threads that start with "I hate ..."

[Dale Cleary]

I hate it too.

[Bugeyes]

Um... Dale, is that you hate Tales? or hate hate?

[Thoughtbecontact]

I didn't care much for Tales in my youth, but now as an adult I have grown to like it, particularly TRSOG. I still have difficulty with the third movement as a feel it is so very sterile, but listening to one of my weeds it does exude some warmth played live.

Wakeman was not fully on board for this idea, probably because Mr. I am Christian here felt the idea was too paganistic, therefore a lot of his contributions are padded bra twaddle!

And CE, I've noticed your posts/threads too. If there's anything that I like on this board, it's a good discussion!

[Dale Cleary]

Originally posted by Peggy
Um... Dale, is that you hate Tales? or hate hate?

Both :D
I always thought Tales was no good. I have posted many thoughts regarding this. I'm so happy Bill left before they recorded it. It did his reputation the world of good. Relayer is much better IMO.
I think Jon just wanted to make a statement of some kind. At least it got people talking. We are speaking of it even now, 30 years later.

[tardistraveler]

Well - I LOVE Tales! Bought it the day it was released and fell in love with it on first listen! Played it incessantly for months!

Guess there's no accounting for tastes! We're all different.

[yessongs72]

Originally posted by The Closer Edge
I hate this album because there isn't a full direction on it. The band were just wankin in the studio to make the songs extra long. They just made stuff up as they recorded. I side with Rick on this one it is a bad album.

Hey give it time, it took me ohhhhh about twenty-six years to really discover it.I still have problems with The ancient,lol still a bit strange,except Leaves of Green. So I do't know how long you have been listening to this musical masterpiece,but give it time.

[BrianD]

Tales is a magical carpet ride, an imperfect masterpiece that has its mix of pearls and wrinkles, but it contains some of the highlights of Yesmusic.

It could have been edited by at least 10 minutes and that would have improved it considerably. But I suspect the length was largely dictated by the 20 minute LP format.

In a way I think Tales is Yes' Sergeant Pepper - not necessarily their best album but the one that represents an extreme of the genre - musically, lyrically and with the cover art.

[bdyescall]

I liked it in my youth, but, now I love it in my youth!!

[upbgirl]

it took me years to be able to 'digest' these lp's, too. i am still 'chewing'.. hehe

this is NOT 'easy listening' music, folks.. [duh!]

tastes change and mature and evolve as does everything in the universe.. [dang! maybe i should take a breather from those books i've been reading lately]:stick: :D

my big brother turned me on to tales right before they did that tour. then he took me to see the show.

i didnt understand ANY of it, but i certainly 'felt' something sitting there listening to it.
that might have been the very first time i sat with my eyes closed-trying to capture that 'feeling' so i could study it later and try to 'get it'..
go back to the things you thought you'd ever like.
you might be surprised!

[Mr. Holland]

Well, let me start of by saying I don't hate anything out of the Yescatalogue. There are just some things I like less then others and I have to say, that Tales is a bit of a half/half thing for me. I really love RSOG and Ritual, but I don't care much for the Remembering and the Ancient. With those last two songs I really get the feeling, listening to them, that from some point on it was just about making it to that 20 minute borderline. But it has allready been said: there is no account for taste!

[PO]

Originally posted by tardistraveler
Well - I LOVE Tales! Bought it the day it was released and fell in love with it on first listen! Played it incessantly for months!


Me, too! We're the lucky ones! And only teenagers, at that! I feel sorry for anyone that doesn't get it. I wouldn't admit it!

[tardistraveler]

Paul - Yeah, I consider myself fortunate that I discovered Yes when I did, and Tales was a masterpiece that soothed my soul when I listened to it. And the Tales tour was phenomenal - I've heard you express that as well out here.

We ARE lucky to have experienced this when we did!

[The Closer Edge]

The thing about Tales from Topographic Oceans is that they just made those songs long just so they could be long. Not before when the songs were long because they kept having ideas and used everyone's creative input in the songs. Tales really has no direction to it. It's probably there best album cover but there worst album of the 70s.

[leqin]

...Suppers Ready

[PO]

Originally posted by The Closer Edge
... they just made those songs long just so they could be long...Tales really has no direction to it...

You are not factually correct at all. You need to read some interviews and thoughts on the subject from the writers themselves. Steve Howe and Jon Anderson have gone on at great length about the thought, meaning, and effort that went into making this music.

If you can't absorb this music, so be it. But, your statements are simply incorrect.

[Dale Cleary]

Originally posted by paostby


If you can't absorb this music, so be it. But, your statements are simply incorrect.

I think this is a bit harsh. Tales is not difficult music at all. Schoenberg can be classed as difficult. But some guys soloing on electric keyboards and guitars is never going to be difficult. I hear more difficult playing on any Tito Puente recording.

[PO]

Originally posted by Dale Cleary
... some guys soloing on electric keyboards and guitars...

Tell that to Steve and Jon, not me. They already went through this with music critics in the 70's.

It is easy music. Most any bar-band can cover RSOG in a heartbeat.

[tardistraveler]

Paul - I hope you're being facetious! I'd LOVE to hear the bar band that could cover RSOG! LOL

[Dantalion Rides Again]

Originally posted by paostby
Tell that to Steve and Jon, not me. They already went through this with music critics in the 70's.

It is easy music. Most any bar-band can cover RSOG in a heartbeat.

Nice. :werd:

You can't regard Tales as an eighty minute jam session and call it a fair assessment of the work. Relative to the more elaborate writing and planning on previous albums, yes. Tales is fluffier. But not totally devoid of parts and riffs and such. I wouldn't call Tales easy. Most Yes music isn't easy; at least not by the standard set by popular music in general.

Maybe the more startling idea behind this thread is the approach within the context of this website. It's pretty easy to be insulted if you happen to love this particular album. It's not a stretch to reword it like this: 'Hey everyone who is a Yes fan and probably likes Tales From Topographic Oceans - I think Tales is a bunch of crap and the guys are lame for doing it. How do you like that?'

Maybe that's harsh, but then so's the original thread-starting post.

[Dantalion Rides Again]

Originally posted by The Closer Edge
The thing about Tales from Topographic Oceans is that they just made those songs long just so they could be long. Not before when the songs were long because they kept having ideas and used everyone's creative input in the songs. Tales really has no direction to it. It's probably there best album cover but there worst album of the 70s.

:D

Now this was a good post. I even agree with most of it. I think you did a nice job clarifying your perspective in this post, The-Closer-Edge.

[PO]

Originally posted by tardistraveler
Paul - I hope you're being facetious! I'd LOVE to hear the bar band that could cover RSOG! LOL

I sure am! I KNOW how difficult Tales is.

Stephen/Dale,

There is nothing personal in my comment. There simply is no truth in fact that Tales is just a bunch of "pretentious noodling" as the critics of 30 years ago liked to call it. I've read many things from Howe and Anderson about what went into making Tales. It was truly inspired and has a strong direction. They wrote it, they said it was an inspired work, and they are the only ones that know. I believe them and I also get their message.

If any listener doesn't relate to it, that happens with all music. That's of no consequence to me. But placing a different intent on it's creation, other than what the writers actually did, is simply not correct, that's all.

[The Closer Edge]

Originally posted by Dantalion Rides Again
:D

Now this was a good post. I even agree with most of it. I think you did a nice job clarifying your perspective in this post, The-Closer-Edge.

Thank you I'm glad you agree with me

[Dale Cleary]

It's a long drawn out load of crap. :D


I couldn't resist.

[PO]

Originally posted by The Closer Edge
I hate this album...

Did you just have little to do that day? I don't understand the intent of this thread in the first place. I guess I haven't become enlightened with your hate. Whatever. I usually am not proud of such feelings.

But, there is a flip side:

http://www.yesfans.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8174

[PO]

Originally posted by Dale Cleary
It's a long drawn out load of crap. :D

Okay, step outside. Pick up that gauntlet! 20 paces and we draw!

[Jackaranda]

The first year or so that I was really into Yes (about 75), I thought Tales was absolutely brilliant, and I still feel that way, for the most part. I could do without all of side 3 except for Leaves of Green, and it just sounds dated, mostly because the production wasn't that good, imho.

I wish, and I've said this a lot, that they'd record a modern, 60 minute live version of Tales. I think that would be a really cool thing for this line-up to do.

[tardistraveler]

Live Tales! THAT would be fun to hear again!

[Jackaranda]

Originally posted by tardistraveler
Live Tales! THAT would be fun to hear again!

Especially with today's technology, I think they could surpass the original recording fairly easy.

[illusion]

I love Tales. All of it. Though I can understand why people don't like (this post voted #1 most unoriginal ever).

I don't care about "technical ability" and all that bollocks. Most people who think like this are so far up their own arses you can't actually tell where they start and where they end.

It's how the music feels that matters, not how Guitarist X can do THAT and not break a nail etc.

Edit: Sorry in advance if anyone is offended by those last two paragraphs. If your offended by the first one then your just weird so no apoligies there. But those other two I can understand, so, yeah, sorry.

[bdyescall]

I have to say that I always respect everyones opinion here.--But, I have the same thoughts as paosby & Jack.
I'm bumming for one of our members right now and don't want to offend anyone with my disagreeing opinions on this topic today.
But, I'll say this much for now.---If you don't like TALES, You really don't know YES.

[yesyadda]

This is probably my favorite album. I went through some tough times soon after it came out. A friend gave me a book to help me through my crisis and it did just that. Then I noticed Tales was inspired by that book. I later listened to the album while "under the influence" of some good '70s-ish stuff and it all came together. Made perfect sense and still does.

*DISCLAIMER*
(Just say no to drugs)

[tardistraveler]

Originally posted by yesyadda
This is probably my favorite album. I went through some tough times soon after it came out. A friend gave me a book to help me through my crisis and it did just that. Then I noticed Tales was inspired by that book. I later listened to the album while "under the influence" of some good '70s-ish stuff and it all came together. Made perfect sense and still does.

*DISCLAIMER*
(Just say no to drugs)


Well, Gary, we all did some of that 70's stuff! I'm sure I first heard Tales under the influence too!

[Mr. Holland]

Originally posted by bdyescall
If you don't like TALES, You really don't know YES.

That is a pretty presumcious thing to say, just as I read paostby say that "if you don't love it, you're not getting it". I've listened to Tales many, many times, I've read everything the band has to say about it, and I can honestly say I'm getting it, I understand what it is about, but I'm still not liking all of it. I really adore RSOG and Ritual, but I have never got into the Remembering and the Ancient. I consider myself a rather intelligent person, and I also consider the people on this site to be. Part of being a rather intelligent person, is that you can make up your own mind about things, as everbody is entitled to, and disagree with people on things. If you happen to have a different opinion about some of the music that Yes created then others, that doesn't mean you're not getting it, or that you don't know Yes. To say that, is quit insulting to the intelligence of people that do have a different opinion, then yours. Part of being an intelligent human being, is being open minded towards other people's opinion and even when you totally disagree, going about that in a respectfull manner. Anyone that adores all of Tales and consider's it to be Yes's ultimate peace of music, has my respect, but don't insult my intelligence when I feel otherwise, by saying I'm not getting it, or that I don't know Yes!

[Erdy1]

Originally posted by Mr. Holland
Anyone that adores all of Tales and consider's it to be Yes's ultimate peace of music, has my respect, but don't insult my intelligence when I feel otherwise, by saying I'm not getting it, or that I don't know Yes!

AMEN!! Although I heartily disagree with you concerning Tales :D


Enough of this. Next thread, please.

[bdyescall]

Mr Holland!!-I'll say again.--I respect everyones opinion here and NEVER try to offend anyone here, and also NEVER question anyone's intelligence here.---This is a forum to answer one's opinion of why "I don't like TALES".---I offered my opinion.--I don't intend to pee you and maybe "You don't know YES" was a bad choice of thinking on my part.---BUT, If you listened to it many times and finally "getting it", but, you don't like it, listen to some other YES!!---NO insults here man!!--Have a good day my friend!!!

PS:-I think this thread sucks too!!

[PO]

Originally posted by Mr. Holland
...just as I read paostby say that "if you don't love it, you're not getting it"...

Close maybe, but not quite. Earlier in this thread:

"If any listener doesn't relate to it, that happens with all music. That's of no consequence to me."

That I will stand up to. I truly couldn't care less if I was the only person in the world that liked it. It wouldn't change my mind one bit.

"Not getting it" can carry some baggage of impuning lack of intelligence, so let's complete the thought:

You aren't "getting (the message from) it". It is just semantics, anyway. I DO know what you are missing, since I "get (the message from) it". You don't know because you don't "get (the message from) it".

No problem, Holland. I know what you mean. I just try to make my feeble attempts to not rain on other people's parade. A "I hate ..." thread is not a parade, though!

Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.

[Soundchaser148]

Originally posted by tardistraveler
Well - I LOVE Tales! Bought it the day it was released and fell in love with it on first listen! Played it incessantly for months!

Guess there's no accounting for tastes! We're all different.

I'm with you on this one, Tardis. I bought the tape version of Tales when I was about 18 and here I am in the year 2003 having loved it ever since (20 years or so!). I do think it is best to listen to Tales in a relaxed position (on the bed works for me!) and to just float away with the sheer beauty of the music. I don't know if you have checked out my Yes website, Tardis, but in that I have written a poem based on the musical rhythms of The Remembering (my poem is like the song: of epic proportions!). I think there are moments on Tales (The Revealing being a classic case in point) when YES reach heaven!

[tardistraveler]

Hey Soundchaser! I'll check out your site! Glad there's another kindred soul that loves Tales! :)

[Earl Grey]

I wonder what TALES would sound like to me, if I hadn't heard it till now?

I think it would be a bit overwhelming, as far as content goes.

As far as 'filler' goes, hell: 'War And Peace' has filler: every time Tolstoy goes off into one of his 'war journalism' diatribes... YAWN.

The poetic prose is what matters in Tolstoy: and so it is with YES as well. Poetry in a land of rock and roll angles is what it is about.

Rock And Roll is a journalistic art-form. This is why journalism is so infatuated by Rock And Roll: they are peas, trapped in a Spinal Tap pod. One reports getting 'laid' on saturday night, the other reports on the bad weather.

Both reach for that murcurial bar of excellence seldom reached by anything less than two centuries old.

A Hunter Thompson and a 'The Beatles' arrive together only once in a saphire moon.

Rock And Roll is a 'now' form: ...child of the 'Don't trust anyone over thirty' sixties, it nearly negates itself before it has a chance to even say 'hello'. And yet, Rock And Roll is the most significant thing to happen in music since Beethoven rolled over.

And YES writes a symphony in that mayfly genre!

TALES is nothing less. It is a grand symphony: and like a symphonic work, it isn't all sizzle and fire. TALES has it's quietude and it's fire. Everything great is in there, and it is as long as it ever should have been.

You don't like Reader's Digest do you???

TALES is the long version: as it should be.

A fantastic work, I love it more every day... And I once had a problem with it. So go figure!

:ele:

[headrott]

BTW, Tales is my favorite album of all time so everyone knows where I stand on the "I hate Tales" issue. Poastby, you made some excellent points about this album. Also, Earl Grey you wrote a fantastic post!

Tales is (IMO, and also Jon's and Steve's I would think) not long to just be long. There is thought put behind all of Tales. Not necessarily put behind every note on Tales (that would be a presumptuous thing to say!) because Tales seems (to me) to be an album trying to convey (spiritual) information to the listener. Many other YESSONGS do the same thing, but not an entire album as Tales does. CTTE is a great example of teaching you something useful to help you in yourl ife. I meant that. YES's music can have a very positive and important impact on how you think, act, and live your life. Of couse the person listening has to have the ability to "hear" what is being taught. This is what makes YES music so important to me, personally. It's not just about a "cool beat" or even a cool melody. There is so much thought put into every song that YES produced between 1972 and 1977. Tales just happens to be the pinacle album (meaning collection of songs as an entirety) in YES's catalogue (IMO, of course).

There are higher points and lower points as far as musical quality goes on Tales of course. IMO, The Remembering is the weakest track on the album, but that does not mean I would want it edited in length. It was produced as it was for a purpose to be a part of the whole of the album. Each movement adds to conveying the message of the album. Now, the trick is, (as others have posted) getting the message. This is what takes discipline on the part of the listener. Some people don't have the discipline to listen to one 20 minute song, let alone four.

Tales is not for everyone, even those that regularly listen to YES and are YESFANS. It's all about what you are looking to get out of the music.

Greg

[tardistraveler]

Earl - Tales as Rock Symphony - YES! It is meant to be taken as a whole, although the individual movements are enjoyable also. And just as there are those who don't care for symphony, so are there those who don't care for Tales. I'm not one of those - I have always loved it as a coherent whole!

Greg - Well said! I too feel that great thought went into Tales. It was meant to be a spiritual expression - the aspects of life, and I feel on this level it really succeeds.

[Earl Grey]

Tales: there isn't really anything else out there like it: nothing to compare it to. Rock and Roll has too short a memory: if the genre had ever evolved opposable thumbs, TALES would probably be the standard of excellence. Problem is, ROCK tends to make evolutionary leaps, and then regresses into de-evolution for periods. Unfortunate.

Out of a lack of anything to really 'define' TALES by, the album gets panned by those who aren't willing to spend the amount of time required to appreciate it.

It's easier to pan something that requires listening effort, by saying it's bombastic or self-consumed. Fact is, TALES would be an amazing leap of artistry in any genre: that TALES is a Rock Symphony has probably not served the work as well as other genres might have.

But those with patience, and a tendency to stand in front of a Piccasso for most of an hour, will have an easier time with it I think!

Just IMO! :ele:

[YESYOUANDI]

He has got to be joking?

I think he means rabin-----Not Tales.

Cheers fans.

[BredYes]

I love Tales. It's one of my favorites after CTTE. My favorite songs are RSOG and the Remembering, such a sweet song. Ritual is great as well. I think the Ancient is the weakest track: I adore the Leaves of Green part but the first minutes is a little bit too much for me, on the other hand it is great to see Yes experimenting. Best way to listen is it is all 4 tracks in a row without a break. I'll buy the Rhino remaster soon, because I expect a huge improvement in sound quality. The poor sound was the weakest point of this album.

[stevie]

I wouldn't say I don't like Tales, but I have to be in the mood to listen to it. I quite like RSOG and Ritual, but The Remembering and especially The Ancient are tough going.
As I say RSOG and Ritual are ok but they are nowhere near as good as the other epics CTTE and Gates Of Delirium.
I can never understand why people say they would like to hear the guys play all of Tales in concert. One of Tales in concert would be a waste of precious time IMO when there are so many far better songs that I want to hear.

[tardistraveler]

Well, Stevie, speaking as someone who HAS heard ALL of Tales in concert, it is an unforgettable experience! And I would LOVE to hear it all again!

[yarstruly]

I think that there may be a certain maturity level invloved to be able to truly appreciate this album. By that, I don't mean age....I mean "Yes Maturity." With a few,documented, exceptions, I don't think most Yes Fans will appreciate this album right off the bat of becoming a Yes Fan. Relayer is like this to me as well. It takes many listens, and patience. It is starting to grow on me of late. In my teens & early 20s, I was not ready. Now in my mid 30s I am. Some people (Diane & Paul, for example) were. But the thing to keep in mind is to keep an open mind. Don't just write it off as "wanking." Try to appreciate WHY they were playing & singing what they were.

Like many others, I prefer RSOG & Ritual to the others. I understand the dissonance of the first half of the Ancient, but it hasn't really grown on me yet. The Remembering is good, but hasn't really grabbed me yet. That being said, I am not going to write off movements 2 & 3....I just need more time.

But I am on my way and am open to the journey.

[tardistraveler]

Yarstruly - an interesting way to put it. And I'm glad you're retaining an open mind about Tales.

Funny, as you talk about people in their teens and early twenties - gosh, was it really THAT long ago? I was 20 when Tales was released - seems like yesterday.

[illusion]

I've been listening to Tales today (twice all the way through) and I'm leaning more and more towards RSOG and Ritual as the stronger tracks and going off The Ancient.

I love Tales.

[yessongs72]

Originally posted by The Closer Edge
I don't know the Ottea's. But yeah Tales might have some good parts I just don't think it's the classic album that alot of people say it is. The classix for me are Close to the edge, Fragile, Drama, The Yes album, And Magnification. I haven't heard all of the ladder but I'm about to get it in the mail. I like everything I have heard from it though.


LOL,you were on a roll with Classics until you mentioned,ddd....drrr..trauma,there, I just can't say that name!But the other's I agree are Classic's and listen to The Ladder,nice piece of Yes music,,their best since Tormato,as Magnification is the best since Tales,lol!

[RobAdams]

Isn't "padding" what a lot of prog rock is all about anyway? ;)

I for one love the padding and so-called "wanking". One thing I love about TALES is its' absolute disregard for COMMERCIALISM!!
No hit singles here...just alternate tunes, skylines, overhanging trees, and loving when they play. I know Rick says he was bored with TALES, but even as a bored musician he shines.

As far as the needing "Yes Maturity" to appreciate this goes, I don't agree. TALES didn't let me down, even the first time I ever listened to it. Right away I knew it was another great Yes album.

[spedblavio]

Originally posted by RobAdams
I for one love the padding and so-called "wanking". One thing I love about TALES is its' absolute disregard for COMMERCIALISM!!
No hit singles here...just alternate tunes, skylines, overhanging trees, and loving when they play. I know Rick says he was bored with TALES, but even as a bored musician he shines.

As far as the needing "Yes Maturity" to appreciate this goes, I don't agree. TALES didn't let me down, even the first time I ever listened to it. Right away I knew it was another great Yes album. Ditto!

And ironically enough, I think it's some of Wakeman's very best work, very cutting edge for the time and still timeless in this digital age.

[yessongs72]

Originally posted by spedblavio
Ditto!

And ironically enough, I think it's some of Wakeman's very best work, very cutting edge for the time and still timeless in this digital age.

Digital,did someone say digital?? It would be so nice to have Tale's released on a DVD-A,gezzzz what could be hearing.

[gleeman]

As if this thread needs another post.....

Frankly I was stunned to see how highly regarded Tales is on this board. I think this a good thread, as I would warn against holding anybody up as infallible deities, even your favorite rock band! Nice to see someone shake up the sometimes too reverent and respectful tone on this board. Tales may be Yes' biggest record, but IMO hardly their best. A big drainbow (ha ha!). I think Jon said it best when he described Tales as "a meeting of high ideals and low energy." This is the album that paved the way for the "new age" Yes of late with a softer, easy listening feel, which is fine I suppose but I've always liked Yes best when they really rock. Not even Ritual does that for me.

The extra tracks on the Rhino reissue lured me into checking this album out for the first time in about 12 years. I think the early take of The Ancient is much more successful at conveying a feeling of some imagined anicient civilization. Jon's vocals doubling Steve's strangely chorded guitar lines at the top are way more affecting than the shrill and annoying slide guitar that made it onto the final product. My other new impression is that Revealing is really a precursor to Awaken. The music for "they move round/Sunlight," especially at the climax, recalls the cyclic "Masters of images" theme from Awaken in intent and emotion.

[yesfreek]

How could any YES fan hate Tales? "Ah jus' don ged id."

It'd be my survival on a deserted island. Check out the poll at SoundChaser.org for the poll on fave studio album.

Our differences are what make us interesting!

Peace,

Yesfreek (Dana)

[Q]

Tales is an acquired taste, to be sure. it certainly requires tremendous investment to be really examined and appreciated.

It can be said, with clinical detachment, that the four major components of Tales lack the structural sophistication of CTTE, though there are some clever thematic variations that are well worth seeking out. Howe more than anyone shines, melodically and instrumentally. Lyrically, Tales has some brilliant moments but is similarly not as sophisticated as CTTE, which boasted a tremendous conceptual integration and absolutely gorgeous use of language.

One feature of noteworthy extended classical works is the 'extractability' of component themes, and in this area Tales is a mixed success. In 80 minutes, one would expect a great many such extractable bits (try to list how many themes you can pull from the far shorter CTTE) - in fact, we know these extractables well: Nous Sommes Du Soleil, Leaves of Green. Not much else. In 80 minutes, Tales yields 1/4 as many extractables as CTTE, which is ironically only 1/4 as long as Tales. The raw math is that CTTE boasts 16 times the concentration of memorable melodies as Tales.

Padding, indeed ...

Q

[Bugeyes]

Ew, so I see, said the blind girl! Thanks Q.

[yessongs72]

Originally posted by Q
Tales is an acquired taste, to be sure. it certainly requires tremendous investment to be really examined and appreciated.

It can be said, with clinical detachment, that the four major components of Tales lack the structural sophistication of CTTE, though there are some clever thematic variations that are well worth seeking out. Howe more than anyone shines, melodically and instrumentally. Lyrically, Tales has some brilliant moments but is similarly not as sophisticated as CTTE, which boasted a tremendous conceptual integration and absolutely gorgeous use of language.

One feature of noteworthy extended classical works is the 'extractability' of component themes, and in this area Tales is a mixed success. In 80 minutes, one would expect a great many such extractable bits (try to list how many themes you can pull from the far shorter CTTE) - in fact, we know these extractables well: Nous Sommes Du Soleil, Leaves of Green. Not much else. In 80 minutes, Tales yields 1/4 as many extractables as CTTE, which is ironically only 1/4 as long as Tales. The raw math is that CTTE boasts 16 times the concentration of memorable melodies as Tales.

Padding, indeed ...

Q


Q well put. I didn't really like Tales when first released,except The Remembering and then over time I would listen to the album. It also wasn't until about two year's ago I rediscovered Tales and I now see the Masterpiece that Jon wrote,and of course Allan,Chris,Rick & Steve. Tale's is beautiful and if anyone hasn't listened to it in awhile, hey give it a listen.

[Rogo]

Originally posted by Earl Grey
Rock and Roll has too short a memory: if the genre had ever evolved opposable thumbs, TALES would probably be the standard of excellence.

There you have it: Tales is Rock with opposable thumbs. Thank you Earl, that one will keep me happy for a LONG time! :D

I think art that takes time is generally of higher value than the opposite. Staring at a Picasso for an hour is a good example. It's worth it, but you won't know it until you've made the effort. Art is long. Even the best short pieces in classical music are like that. You haven't really heard it until you have listened ten or fifteen times.

I listened to Schubert's ninth symphony four times in a row on a trans Atlantic flight once, and on the fourth hearing it really hit me. It sounded totally transformed. Of course, the music was the same, and I was the one that was transformed. Maybe that was what gave Jon the need to try long compositions: those long flights listening to Sibelius and Stravinsky over and over.

Tales is different from other "concept" albums of the same era in that this is what it's trying to do: To create a long composition with one total vision. I think, in this regard, it's the best example we have in "rock" music, anyway.

[tardistraveler]

Well I'm not a musician, and I don't claim to be a great critic. I just know what I like, and I LOVE Tales. It transports me to a beautiful place, the words stick with me and play through my head at times when I really need them to. So, it doesn't matter to me if someone else deems it structurally, thematically, conceptually, inferior to any other music - it will always rank among my favorites!

[doctor_how]

Originally posted by Q
One feature of noteworthy extended classical works is the 'extractability' of component themes, and in this area Tales is a mixed success. In 80 minutes, one would expect a great many such extractable bits (try to list how many themes you can pull from the far shorter CTTE) - in fact, we know these extractables well: Nous Sommes Du Soleil, Leaves of Green. Not much else. In 80 minutes, Tales yields 1/4 as many extractables as CTTE, which is ironically only 1/4 as long as Tales. The raw math is that CTTE boasts 16 times the concentration of memorable melodies as Tales.

Padding, indeed ...

Q

I don't quite understand. There's more "extractables" in Tales, at least for me. The "what happened to this song" part in RSOG was stuck in my head for many days after the first listen. Also the "called out a tune" part. And the weird G#minor part with the disco drum beat. A lot of that song gets stuck in my head, actually.

[Earl Grey]

Wakey stole half of my copy of 'Tales', from right under my nose.

There. I said it.

I was sitting on this story: but this thread caused me to spill...
I personally LOVE the entire record, but Rick Wakeman has mentioned that it should have been a one disc venture.

When I met Wakey last saturday, I gave him my CD to sign. Which he did. After exclaiming, "What's THIS %#%!"

I got all engulfed in jabbering with Jon, and while I jabbered with Jon, Rick Wakeman pulled the first disc from my CD case, and 'frisbied' it into the weeds, alongside the stage: I never found it...

My copy of TALES was edited into a one-disc album by Rick Wakeman, Esq. Which was apropriate, maybe.

Can I prove it? Well, Rick DID have a #^@* eating grin after he handed the CD back to me, signed, sealed and delivered: and re-slipped back into the slipcase from which it proceeded from.

My daughter said, as we left the stage, "What was Rick grinning ear to ear about dad? He looked like the cat that ate the canary?"

I think Rick just may have played a practical joke on me. Which he likes to do, from what I hear.
~~~~~~~~

There's my story. Perhaps the CD fell out natuarally, after being signed and jostled about, but I like to think otherwise: that Wakey played frisbie with half of the thing, so until proven differently, I'll stand on this as it appeared to happen.

If you ask Wakey to sign your copy of TALES, be sure to glue the first disc in with crazy glue first...

Unless you want the WAKEY edit! He might be correct in this: TALES could have used a bit more time in the studio, as magic as it was, there wasn't such a thing as a 3 sided disc back in the day it was recorded.

I love TALES as-is.

Off into the weeds... So it goes!

HAR!

Love it love it love it!

I did get to keep his signature. :)

There it is in Magik Marker: A bunch of loops that says, "Rick Wakeman was here!" But the CD isn't!

:ele:

[gathernear]

Thanks for the tip, Earl. Next show, I'm taking EMPTY cases to be autographed. I can't believe he ripped your disc. That is so funny!!


Larry

[yarstruly]

Funny...I thought RSOG was the track he deemed "acceptable" since they play it live with him....

[PO]

Originally posted by Q
Tales is an acquired taste...It can be said, with clinical detachment, that the four major components of Tales lack the structural sophistication of CTTE... Lyrically, Tales has some brilliant moments but is similarly not as sophisticated as CTTE...Padding, indeed ...



Sorry, Q. This is all your opinion since I disagree with every point (my opinion!). I liked it from the 1st note and I was a 16-year-old from Minnesota. I guess a lack of sophistication is what it takes.

I find it odd that some fans of Yes want their dislike/misunderstanding of the most extended work Yes has ever produced to be known (I'd be embarrassed to admit it).

[Rogo]

I luckily got my hands on Tales early enough not to be critical. It's a strange album in that in order to appreciate it, at first you have to somehow sneak it past your critical faculties. If you succeed, it will stay with you forever.

If you come across it too late, when your "tastes" have become too "sophisticated", the burden of disbelief to be lifted just becomes too heavy...

[Tonydess]

The first thing that struck me about the album after repeated listens is Steve Howe's guitar.I'm a drummer by nature,but this has got to be his BEST guitar oriented album this drummers ever heard.
The second thing that struck me is the common theme and sound running through this album.
The third is the artwork.

The lyrics(I admit) was a bit hard to swallow but after I understood where Steve and John were coming from I understood everything.Still have some questions about Ritual though.

I really like this album alot.

[Earl Grey]

Originally posted by yarstruly
Funny...I thought RSOG was the track he deemed "acceptable" since they play it live with him....

Well... Then again, maybe the disc just fell out on it's own accord as I walked up to the signing table.
But I like to think that Rick nabbed it! In keeping with rick's trickster nature for sure...

I'll probably never know...

Yeah, Wakeman DID consent to play RSOG last year, but notice, it was one of the few songs that they cut from the set-list, half-way through the tour...
Alas: it was my favorite song.

At least I got to hear RSOG live in Phoenix: now THAT was a moment!

"Hey Wakey! Where's my CD man?!" :ele:

[Emops]

There are parts of Tales that I like, but nothing that I absolutely love. Last Saturday afternoon I listened to the entire thing straight through for the first time, and by Nous Sommes Du Soleil, I was begging for the album to be over. RSOG needs to be chopped in half for it to be listenable, in my opinion (I like the new 2-minute introduction on the Rhino remaster, though). The Remembering is a wonderful 6-minute song- too bad it's goes on for twenty. The Ancient just seems like a "grab bag" of unfinished ideas and half-baked musical noodling- it should have never been recorded (although I do like Leaves Of Green quite a bit). Ritual is the only song on the album I can enjoy all the way through, but it's certainly no Close To The Edge or Gates Of Delirium.

I'm thinking that the reason I don't care for Tales much is because I've never used drugs. Would that help? Not that I'd be willing to do that to enjoy music...:bonghitte

Wakey stole half of my copy of 'Tales', from right under my nose.

There. I said it.

I was sitting on this story: but this thread caused me to spill...
I personally LOVE the entire record, but Rick Wakeman has mentioned that it should have been a one disc venture.

When I met Wakey last saturday, I gave him my CD to sign. Which he did. After exclaiming, "What's THIS %#%!"

I got all engulfed in jabbering with Jon, and while I jabbered with Jon, Rick Wakeman pulled the first disc from my CD case, and 'frisbied' it into the weeds, alongside the stage: I never found it...

My copy of TALES was edited into a one-disc album by Rick Wakeman, Esq. Which was apropriate, maybe.

Can I prove it? Well, Rick DID have a #^@* eating grin after he handed the CD back to me, signed, sealed and delivered: and re-slipped back into the slipcase from which it proceeded from.

My daughter said, as we left the stage, "What was Rick grinning ear to ear about dad? He looked like the cat that ate the canary?"

I think Rick just may have played a practical joke on me. Which he likes to do, from what I hear.

I wonder what would have happened if I had given him a copy of Relayer to sign?

[BrianD]

[QUOTE=Emops]There are parts of Tales that I like, but nothing that I absolutely love. Last Saturday afternoon I listened to the entire thing straight through for the first time, and by Nous Sommes Du Soleil, I was begging for the album to be over. RSOG needs to be chopped in half for it to be listenable, in my opinion (I like the new 2-minute introduction on the Rhino remaster, though). The Remembering is a wonderful 6-minute song- too bad it's goes on for twenty. The Ancient just seems like a "grab bag" of unfinished ideas and half-baked musical noodling- it should have never been recorded (although I do like Leaves Of Green quite a bit). Ritual is the only song on the album I can enjoy all the way through, but it's certainly no Close To The Edge or Gates Of Delirium.

I'm thinking that the reason I don't care for Tales much is because I've never used drugs. Would that help? Not that I'd be willing to do that to enjoy music...:bonghitte


I certainly don't use drugs but I do like Tales - however I agree that it needed editing - possibly your suggestions are a bit too deep for my liking.

I used to think the same as you about The ancient but over the last 5 years I have really started to listen to a lot of Miles Davis from the late 60s early 70s and I started to realise that The ancient has borrowed a lot from him. I have found that my appreciation of The Ancient has increased the more I listen to it. It realliy is a piece of electronic avant garde jazz - and some people just don't like that style, which really is not traditioonal Yes style.

[bender]

For those that think there needed to more editing in Tales - can I suggest that you try it!

There is plenty of software out there that allows you to do just that and sometimes it IS possible to improve a track.

My family hated the original version of Endless Dream, yet they love my edited 10 minute version!

[WhiteKnight]

A few days ago I have re-watched Milos Forman's Amadeus, the movie about Mozart. Salieri keeps saying that Mozart's music was like "the voice of God". I thought to myself, that's what I feel about TFTO.

All Yes music I love, but TFTO is perfect and complete like a Universe of its own. The Magic of Creation itself.

WK

[gunsfornuns]

I didn't know I am a hardcore Yes fan until I read where Chris said only the hardcore fans like TFTO. Hey, some days I can't bear to hear it, and some days it's all I need to hear. What do you do?

[Ryan]

I can see why people don't like this one very much. I like it, its just not nearly as good as close to the edge, or fragile.

[tardistraveler]

Hi, Ryan - don't know if I've welcomed you before or not, but anyway - welcome to YesFans! Glad to have you aboard!

Tales is certainly different from CTTE or Fragile. I like it on its own terms, not expecting it to be like anything else. Sometimes there's nothing like kicking back with Tales - all 4 movements, and just letting the music take you where it will!

[YYY]

I love TALES. I guess i am a hardcore fan. although i dont like everything they have done, I do like everything they did during the 60's & 70's. Tales is at the top of the list as one of the most unique and original contemporary pieces of music ever.

I assume that those who don't like TALES haven't learned to swim. I suggest taking lessons so that you don't drown in the sound of the Topographic Oceans.

[PO]

...The raw math is that CTTE boasts 16 times the concentration of memorable melodies as Tales.

Padding, indeed ...

Q

I'll easily refute this. I spent a year listening to it and many, many years learning to play it (guitars, keyboards, percussion, and vocals). I did the same with ALL of CTTE, not just the title track.

Pack a bag (you and Rick!) and I'll walk you through it. I'll need a minimum of one week, 8 hours a day. I also won't use any written crib notes.

[tardistraveler]

Paul, we need to get you to come to our next gathering so you can play for us! I'd LOVE to hear some Tales!

[PO]

Paul, we need to get you to come to our next gathering so you can play for us! I'd LOVE to hear some Tales!

I wouldn't be bringing a calculator for the math, though!

[tardistraveler]

No math necessary - just music!

[jimtim45]

I bought the album when it was first released and have listened to it on & off over the last 30years I would say are two excellent tracks on TALES,the RSOG & The Ritual.I still listen to both of them often.The Ancient & the Remmembering,I sadly now rarely listen to.Maybe that's because YES have made so much good music since Tales such as the whole of Relayer,Going for The One & The Ladder,not to mention Keys 1+2.

[yessongs72]

I don't know the Ottea's. But yeah Tales might have some good parts I just don't think it's the classic album that alot of people say it is. The classix for me are Close to the edge, Fragile, Drama, The Yes album, And Magnification. I haven't heard all of the ladder but I'm about to get it in the mail. I like everything I have heard from it though.

It took me 25 years to really get into Tales.But this is a Classic album,if any weak link it's The Ancient.You do list some nice Classic Albums,but I did notice a typo,it was trauma.I just thought you might want to know.

[fragile34]

the first time i listened to tales i thought it was long for the sake of being long. after a few more listens the work as a whole just made so much sense. i love the album.

[headrott]

[QUOTE=Emops]There are parts of Tales that I like, but nothing that I absolutely love. Last Saturday afternoon I listened to the entire thing straight through for the first time, and by Nous Sommes Du Soleil, I was begging for the album to be over. RSOG needs to be chopped in half for it to be listenable, in my opinion (I like the new 2-minute introduction on the Rhino remaster, though). The Remembering is a wonderful 6-minute song- too bad it's goes on for twenty. The Ancient just seems like a "grab bag" of unfinished ideas and half-baked musical noodling- it should have never been recorded (although I do like Leaves Of Green quite a bit). Ritual is the only song on the album I can enjoy all the way through, but it's certainly no Close To The Edge or Gates Of Delirium.

I'm thinking that the reason I don't care for Tales much is because I've never used drugs. Would that help? Not that I'd be willing to do that to enjoy music...:bonghitte


I certainly don't use drugs but I do like Tales - however I agree that it needed editing - possibly your suggestions are a bit too deep for my liking.

I used to think the same as you about The ancient but over the last 5 years I have really started to listen to a lot of Miles Davis from the late 60s early 70s and I started to realise that The ancient has borrowed a lot from him. I have found that my appreciation of The Ancient has increased the more I listen to it. It realliy is a piece of electronic avant garde jazz - and some people just don't like that style, which really is not traditioonal Yes style.

Brian,
There is absolutely no need to take drugs to listen to Tales (or any album for that matter). It just takes your imagination and a long attention span. I have never taken an illegal drug in my life and Tales is my favorite album ever. Actually, I believe drugs would actually hinder your involvement with Tales (and every other album). Take a listen to Tales again with as open a mind as you can keep. Put it on with all the lights off and no interuptions. AND PAY ATTENTION TO IT! It makes a big difference, believe me. It may take a few listens to "get into it". You may still not like it after a number of close listens. So be it. It's not for you......

Greg

[YYY]

As I 've said in the past, L S D and Tales was a bi-weekly tradition amongst my college buddies in the mid-seventies. We took our sessions very seriously and considered them to be spiritual and enlightning experiences. TALES was always on the playlist as we prepared to 'travel without moving'. TALES has always made sense to me but I must admit that those transcendental topographic adventures revealed alot of intricacies and details in the music that I wasn't previously conscious of.

No! you do not have to agree or partake in listening to TALES under the psychotropic influence but I wouldn't have missed those experiences for the world. We all had some truly amazing times while deep sea diving in those Topographic Waters where we had some incredible underwater adventures at very extreme depths.

Fortunately none of us ever drowned in the process, we simply surfaced more refreshed, soaked and alive than ever.

[PO]

I hate this album because there isn't a full direction on it...

Is that what Steve and Jon told you (you know, when you were in the studio during the Tales sessions)?

[Earl Grey]

Excellent expression there YYY!

And a warm Yesfans welcome to Jim/Tim45 and Fragile34! Glad you found us! And keep the great posts coming!
~~~~~~~~~

I'm listening to TALES right now, actually.

I bought the album the day it came out, and all these years later, I still hear new levels to the music (The remastered edition is so clear! Is that a police siren I hear on the left channel, 5:32 seconds into TRSOG? It may just be the phased keyboard, but hey! Sure sounds like it! Way back there...).

TALES was my first Yesshow, and I sort-of grew up listening to the album. Always one of my favorites.

Comparing TALES to CTTE is sort of like swinging two classical statues against each other in an attempt to find the stronger work.
...Far better to simply enjoy each in it's own rare beauty, and not reduce the artistry to a tabulation of 'wow' points... ;) Not that anyone was doing that...

All great posts guys!

[Mr. Holland]

For my ears a good epic needs structure to it. Structure to make me feel that I'm listening to one track, in which the music belongs together. If there are just 4 or 5 different sections put together in a row, where every section has musicly little to do with the other sections, then there just as easily could have been made 4 or 5 seperate songs out of them. So for me, structure means also returning themes, or returning lines, returning segments. Those bits keeps reminding you throughout the song that you're still listening to the same song, so you not only know it by looking at the time counter on your cd player with still says song 2, 16:43.
Yes epics like CTTE, Awaken, GOD, have structure to them and so do RSOG and Ritual. The Remembering and the Ancient however (and like I said this is in my personal hearing of the tunes, after the many time I've listened to them) lack the sort of structure I've mentioned, and that is why I'm not really fund of those two tracks, allthough I do like the Leaves of Green section in the Ancient, but as said, that section is a song of it's own and could have easily been released on an album as such. But for the rest the tracks seem to go on and on without some structure in it, which makes them sort of empty for me. It is a bit like somebody giving a speech of 20 minutes, but by the end of it, hasn't said anything. Then I rather hear a 5 minutes speech in which every word means something........

[PO]

...The Remembering and the Ancient however (and like I said this is in my personal hearing of the tunes, after the many time I've listened to them) lack the sort of structure I've mentioned...

You should say "seem to lack ..." as this is your hearing of it.

The structure is there, you just can't hear it. When you learn to play these you will know the structure.

Maybe you won't like it. That's your loss. But, it is incorrect to say there is "no structure". These guys don't work that way, and you know it.

All anyone needs to say (as is their wont) is that they don't like it. Then, anyone else can say "me, too" or "so what?".

[peter burns]

I hate this album because there isn't a full direction on it. The band were just wankin in the studio to make the songs extra long. They just made stuff up as they recorded. I side with Rick on this one it is a bad album.
this is just the best.(full stop)hey thats how you make progmusic,play it again in a darkened room with what ever goes

[fragile34]

wankin in the studio to make the songs long...

I sincerely doubt that wanking had anything to do with the construction of the songs.

[sleeptalker]

They just made stuff up as they recorded.

I don't see that as a negative but as part of the creative process . Most bands "make stuff up" whilst recording. Has any album that Yes has recorded been done any other way????

[YYY]

Damn I lost my long winded response. Here is a more condensed version


No Structure!!!! Tales is full of structure but not in the traditional classical style. This is what makes epic YES so interesting and imaginative. Regarding 'The Ancient' - there is structure from the beginning until the end. 'Leaves of Green' serves as a type of 'Interlude'. Maybe the 'spontaneous freestyle' nature of the piece disturbs you Mr. Holland. Interestingly enough, this is exactly what attracts me to 'The Ancient'. This is what keeps it from being boring, orderly and predictable. These are the types of things that YES inherited from people like Byrd, Coltrane and Hendrix. "Push the limits of what's expected".

There's an interesting book called "Avant Garde Rock" that features a chapter on YES. It's the only book I've read about prog music that actually analyzes the musical structure and lyrics of song like TALES. (specifcally RSOG)/. This could help to clarify and explain some of the difficulties that Mr. Holland is having.

[Full Tilt Boogie]

I didn't know I am a hardcore Yes fan until I read where Chris said only the hardcore fans like TFTO. Hey, some days I can't bear to hear it, and some days it's all I need to hear. What do you do?


I can chime with that mate. I first heard TFTO in about 1980 and thought it to be unbridled and seemless arse: being young, only 15 at the time, I listened to it and 'kept waiting for the chorus' to appear!! Doh!

Then, a coupla years back, I went out and bought KTA 1&2, and of course it has the Revealing Science of God on side one. All I can say was that the moment it finished I pressed the repeat button and listened to it twice again before bothering with anything else on the album....errr....sorry....'CD'!

Coming back to TFTO, there are cadences, cadenzas and vast tracts on all four sides of the album (or two, if we're still on CDs) to which I can sit and listen to repeatedly, tracts that I'd nigh-on forgotten about and am all the ahppier for rediscovering.

And then, like you say, some days I only need a loud dose of the comparatively short 'Wonderous Stories' or a 'ballsy-blast' of GFTO and I'm a very happy man again.

That said, the first Yes LP/CD I ever listened to, and the one which set me on this train of deleriously happy variety, was the live 'Yesshows'. Still gets played regularly in the car and still has, for me at least, the definitive live version of 'Roundabout' on it!

Happy daze!

[Mr. Holland]

Maybe the 'spontaneous freestyle' nature of the piece disturbs you Mr. Holland. Interestingly enough, this is exactly what attracts me to 'The Ancient'.

To make it even more strange and interesting, I am very much into jazzrock/fusion to. I love things from the Chick Corea Acoustic/electric band, Miles Davis, Weather Report, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Return to Forever, Stanley Clarke, Billy Cobham to name just a few. Talk about spontaneous freestyle nature.........but still in all this freestyle nature, there is a pretty recognizable basis, paterns they come back to at certain points in the songs.
I hear those songs go from point A to point B to point C, returning to point A, going to point D, returning to point C etc. This returning to points the music has been before in a song is what makes it one whole song for me. What I hear on the Ancient and the Remembering is the songs going from point A to point B to point C, to point D, etc. which in my ears doesn't make it one whole song, but say four songs put in a row..........

[YYY]

What can I say....I think 'The Ancient' was one of the most beautifully modern surrealistic pieces of music ever created by a "rock" band. "The Ancient" is unorthodox ,unconventional and unpreditable yet cohesive. It's like an abstract painting with messy brush strokes playing off the orderly strokes, where the muted colors illuminate the saturated ones and the hard lines essentuate the softer areas.

For example...It's like a day trip down a mysterious path which takes you to many wonderful places. Although several things happened along your journey. it still turns out to be a great day.

One of YES most hypnotic moments happens when Jon chants the different names for our Star.....Sol/Dhoop/Sun/Ilios/Sayheet/Ah Kin/Saule/etc........

-------------------------------------------------
"As One with the knowledge and magic of the Source
Atuned to the majesty of music
They marched as one with the Earth..."

Yes!

[PO]

One of YES most hypnotic moments happens when Jon chants the different names for our Star.....Sol/Dhoop/Sun/Ilios/Sayheet/Ah Kin/Saule/etc........

Absolutely. That section is some of the most brilliant work ever done by any rock band. Listen to the descending choir/mellotron chording.

In the climax prior to Leaves of Green, I believe Alan is playing in 8/4 while Alan plays in 7/4.

Ever listen to Ravi Shankar at some of those 60's/70's festivals? ALL of that can be seen as mindless "jamming". But, that seems to be the style. Like it or not.

The structure of Tales is there. When many westerners listen to traditional Oriental music the idea of it all can be difficult. But, it too, has structure. A big component of The Ancient is the "eastern" influence. It may be the interpretation by a bunch of young 1973 Brits, but I like their take on it.

[YYY]

Also I personally never viewed TALES as 4 individual separate pieces of music until I started reading post on this website. TALES is one epic in 4 parts. Each are themes or chapters of one story.

Speaking of time signatures...I listened to a lot of Ravi Shankar in the 70's and saw him and other Classical Indian musicians Live in the mid-nineties several times.
Although there is improvising, the Ragas they perform have a definate structure. Some of the poly-rhythms are quite complicated and intricate. Then there are different Ragas for the morning, afternoon and evening. most Westerners can't tell the difference. Far from mindless and very sophisticated.

[Ryan]

I know the begining of the remembering is in 7/4 timing, but it is hart to tell because It sounds so smooth. But I think they mostly use 4/4 time on this album. Close to the edge on the other hand. . . .

[Full Tilt Boogie]

All this is very well and good about Ravi Shankar's playing, but personally, I think he's over-rated as a violinist! :D

[YYY]

No No that's another Shankar who plays violin. That Shankar played in the group Shakti with John Mclaughlin.

Ha Ha too you.

[Jeremy Bender]

Ah, the TFTO debate! If one thinks of Yes albums as children, CTTE is the child that's easy to love; Tales needs a bit more attention and love because it does have flaws. Relayer was my first Yes experience in early 1975; Tales was the next Yes album I got. I listened to it obsessively for months just trying to memorize it and trying to figure out the structure. For sure, there are some parts that are somewhat less than inspired but some of it has parts that are some of the best things Yes has ever done. I saw them live in 1997 and when they did RSOG, I was so glad because it just worked. What a wonderfully structured song; it's got some great tunes and it just flows so well.

Sure, it could use some pruning but, IMHO, considering the nature of the project and the circumstances under which it was made, I think the quality level is pretty consistent throughout. My two biggest complaints with it are:

1) The sound. By all accounts, Eddie Offord was a mess during the recording sessions. I wonder why they recorded it at Morgan instead of the usual Advision? Like was mentioned above, the drums sound pretty poor.

2) Rick. For obvious reasons, the sound he gets out of his instruments is really poor. There's some really diabolical Mellotron sounds, the Hammond sounds thin and washed out and the Moog work is cliched and poor.

I like Howe's guitar bits during the Leaves of Green section but I really don't like Jon's words or vocals. Steve's pedal steel sounds like he's playing about a 1/4 tone flat in the preceeding section, too.

Like YYY, Tales was a staple of my drug-assisted listening days. Put on a pair of headphones, spark up the bong and wee! 80 minutes of fun.

I've not gotten the remastered version on Rhino so can someone describe the bonus tracks? Is Dance of the Sun the 27 minute version of RSOG?

[fragile34]

like everyone else has said, this album requires patience and a good attention span

[YYY]

Most of the music I enjoy the most requires patience and a good attention span. This used to be the norm, now I guess it's rare.

[fragile34]

me too, i just think this one especially requires upmost attention

[Timmo]

I go back and forth with "Tales." Sometimes I get frustrated with it and think it's self-indulgent "noodling," then I get into the really amazing moments of it, like the end of "The Remembering," etc., and think it's the album ever released.

I first heard Tales live. It was 1974, and my parents were away on vacation. I was 12 at the time. My older brother (20) was taking care of me, and had a concert to go to. The babysitter cancelled, and he had to take me with him and his friends, or not go. I was thrilled; not just because I got to stay out late with the "grownups." My brother had turned me on to the Yes Album three years previously, and I was already an avid Yes fan, having my own copies of TYA, Fragile and CTTE. (I was already playing classical piano by that point, so I was musically pretty precocious).

Needless to say, we were all a bit puzzled by the concert, especially myself at 12. Out of the six of us, only one had bought and heard the album...and as I recall, we were all a bit stoned by the time the band launched into Tales. I liked "The Remembering" right away, but the rest was, well, DISTANT.

I made my mom buy me Tales when they got back from Florida. It continued to puzzle me for a while. Gradually it grew on me, until I listened to it daily for several years (had the same reaction to Genesis' "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway," but that's another story).

In high school, we YesHeads divided Yes fans into two groups...those that liked Tales (the die-hards) and those that didn't or hadn't heard of it (the posers).

Today is a positive-Tales-day; I listened to it in its entirety over the weekend again. Moments of bliss, moments of frustration, after years of listening, that doesn't seem to change for me.


TIM
reminiscing about Tales and misspent youth in
VENICE, CA

[Nellsalot]

I've only listened to Tales in its entirity once (I'm a new listener) but it was an instant love for me. Maybe my favorite Yes album. I love experimentation and ambitiousness in music (one of my favorite albums, "Zaireeka" by The Flaming Lips, is a 4-disc set meant to be played simulatenously - I've only heard the complete version once). But it's tough to take out the time and sit down and listen to the whole thing. I've listened to Ritual by itself a couple times. But who knows, maybe the more I listen to Tales the less I'll like it, or something.

In terms of structure, it seems to me that it's more of a "flowing" album, if that makes sense. I think of Close to the Edge as a song that consists of different sections - I think of Tales as a sort of linear journey, constantly unfolding and changing but still following a general conceptual theme... does that make sense?

[YYY]

YES it does. As I've said in previous post, Tales is one big song in 4 parts. This was how I was originally introduced to it. I loved it immediately. After CTTE, I wanted more. YES had made me feel that the 'sky was the limit' in contemporary music. I couldn't get enough of it. TALES was an event and for the first several months I'd only listen to the album in it's entirity. Like putting a video tape to watch a movie. I'd take food and bathroom breaks between songs.

TALES LIVE was simply spellbinding for me. I was under the influenced and 'time' seemed to stand still and fly by simultaneously. It was an incredible journey and undoubtedly enhanced by Dean's stage design, the bands flashy wardrobe, fog machines and lazer beams.