Okay, Did Tony Kaye Write Much Of Fragile?

[SonicDeath10]

i've heard people say not only did tony write much of the keyboard parts ont he album, there's some of his playing on it. i don't know about that.

[RobAdams]

I've never heard that...My gut instincts tell me Kaye had nothing to do with songs on FRAGILE. But I don't know.

[Dr Yes]

I tend to agree with Mr Adams. Don't have anything specific to hand to check, but gut instinct tells me that Wakeman was VERY involved with the band compositions. We've all read Wakeman's thoughts on Fragile and how it all came together very quickly and was all written in a kind of blur of creativity. Most notably he says of that first session where the very kernel of HOTS and Roundabout were laid down very quickly with each memebr chipping in with different riffs and runs. Wakeman's non-inclusion in the writing is more a fact of contractual problems with A&M isn't it? In his most recent interviews Wakeman is also often heard to say that he wishes he had some writing recognition for his (vast) contribution on Fragile - not for the money, just for reference.

Plus I'd have to say that the whole tonal palette of the keyboards on Fragile just doesn't sit with the idea that Tony Kaye was involved. It would be interesting to dig out the date of when Anderson and Howe came up with the lyrics for Roundabout. From memory they were in Scotland weren't they - hence the whole mountains come out of the sky as they drove down by the lochs. Might be interesting to know when this was.

[BredYes]

I never heard of that until our Yesfans member Rabin105 mentioned it on a thread about Peter Banks on this site. I don't believe that Kaye wrote parts of Fragile and I agree with Dr-Yes about this. This history is documented often.
I am sure that he did not play on Fragile because he is not capable to play the more virtuoso Wakeman parts (listen to concerts in the 80's and 90's when Yes was playing some Wakeman classics) and was also limited in his types of keyboards equipment in the early seventies.
Rabin 105 always loves the idea of members playing other members music (Rabin-Howe, Kaye-Wakeman etc) and I think that view is the source of this rumour.

[Thoughtbecontact]

Wakeman has been quoted as saying that the bridge from SSOTS was adapted from some his Six Wives of Henry VIII, which was already written, but not recorded when Fragile was being developed. This becomes very evident if you listen to weeds from the recent tour because the improvisation between Howe and Wakeman is derived from passages of Catherine Parr.

[GreenTowers]

Going through the tracks one by one there doesn't seem to be a lot that Kaye could have written:

Roundabout - Every hammond & moog lick on this is archetypal Wakeman.

SSOTS - Again, Rick tells a very complete story of his involvement in the creation of this track, particularly the middle section. Also the organ riff during the lyrics 'were we ever colder on that day' sound very much like a Wakeman C3 sound. He used very similar tones on Al Stewart's 'Orange' album released in 1972.

Long Distance Runaround - Techically it would have been possible for 2nd (or indeed original) lineup to have played this. However, Jon tells the story of how the tune came to him one morning and how he worked it through with Bill Rick & Steve in the afternoon before Chris got to the studio. This seems to preclude Tony's involvement.

HOTS - The playing is either too technical (opening fast organ bit) or too fluid (end piano) to be Tony. The mellotron sequence is an early portent of Rick's Tron work on TRSOG & TR.

I also don't think that Tony had much involvement with the finished product. Perhaps in the early stages he had some background influence in the writing/production as he is sometimes given credit for during his second stint with the band.

[yessongs72]

Green I agree with you,noway could or did have any part of Fragile.He can play an organ,but doesn't have the talent to write,muchless even think of playing anything that's on Fragile.

[SonicDeath10]

Originally posted by yessongs72
Green I agree with you,noway could or did have any part of Fragile.He can play an organ,but doesn't have the talent to write,muchless even think of playing anything that's on Fragile. so did tony not write the stuff on the first three albums, or the albums with rabin?

[Dr Yes]

Originally posted by SonicDeath10
so did tony not write the stuff on the first three albums, or the albums with rabin?

I don't think he was that involved with writing much of the Rabin stuff no. Rabin, being the smart arse he is ;) can play drums, keyboards and guitars - and sing! Bearing in mind it was Rabin's way of working to turn up with the material 'almost complete', it wouldn't surprise many to hear that Kaye didn't write a lot of it. Added to this, during one of the Rabin era recordings didn't Trevor Horn (who was producing 90125) get Rabin back to re do some of the keyboard parts he didn't like? And didn't Kaye effectively walk out of the recordings when he was told (or found out) someone else was playing. I think Kaye's involvement (if you'll bear with the lack of accuracy on specific details) was more to be there in the LIVE situation. Hence why many of the parts are stripped down and why many of the 70s classics sound so different.

Returning to the question about the first three albums, I don't have any argument that he was involved in the writing here. But crucially you'd have to say that the playing was far more of a supportive backdrop - or canvas - to Steve's intensely melodic work. It's far less technical than Wakeman's later stuff. This isn't to say that the tracks aren't great, but Kaye was far more of a team player than a lead player.

[Earl Grey]

I have an internet download of the song AMERICA. It was from 1970, it has Tony Kaye on it...
And many of the parts are the same. But Wakeman did it better!

I imagine some tiny bits and pieces of Fragile encorporate Tony Kaye, just as some of The YES Album is influenced by Peter Banks. 'A Venture' is the best example...

But Wakeman IS Wakeman, and his own style and verve certainly overshadow anything Kaye might have brought to the mix.

But I'm sure he was in there somewhere.

I doubt seriously whether Banks ever played a note on Fragile.

Fragile sounds TOO much like Wakeman!

The comet has a tail. It is comprised of many past influences.
And nothing is ever lost...

:ele:

[Dr Yes]

Originally posted by Earl Grey
I have an internet download of the song AMERICA. It was from 1970, it has Tony Kaye on it...
And many of the parts are the same. But Wakeman did it better!
:ele:

I always thought that Howe once said Wakeman didn't much care for 'America' as a track. From my memory of it (and I think it's from a quote buried in Tim Morse's Yesstories) Bill Bruford played some of the keys for the version that is recorded on Yesterdays, or maybe he played great vibes, or something. But Yes, there are several early versions of America (that are quite different in structure to the Yesterdays version) with Kaye on - not that the track has anything to do with Fragile!

[yarstruly]

It does a little...It was recorded during that same period of time, I believe. I don't think Tony had much to do with Fragile at all. There may have been a few jams perhaps where some Ideas began to develop before his departure, but there has been no evidence of anything that hints at a significant contribution from Tony.