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View Full Version : Is a QPR re-do next?



TwinArchers
02-27-2012, 02:48 PM
The jury is still out on Yessongs Blu Ray but I have to believe its going to be great.

If they are going to follow suit with Anniversary edtions can QPR be far behind??

One can only dream that it will eventually take us to Yessongs 2 if it indeed exists.

Doctor Flang
02-27-2012, 03:08 PM
Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't QPR originally filmed on video? Therefore it wouldn't benefit from HD treatment. Of course, it still could be released on DVD, but if it's true that the multitracks are lost, it wouldn't be much better than the laser disc.

witeskyn7
02-27-2012, 09:20 PM
Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't QPR originally filmed on video? Therefore it wouldn't benefit from HD treatment. Of course, it still could be released on DVD, but if it's true that the multitracks are lost, it wouldn't be much better than the laser disc.


Not sure of the actual format that was used during the video recording...but that wouldn't matter
as far as having it transformed into a HD format.....It has been done before.
The problem with that is, it would take lots of $$$$$ to get the job done.

It's a rotten shame though, that the audio can not be fixed 1st off!!!

Again $$$$$$ would be a factor and....IMO there wouldn't be enough interest
to perhaps justify such a massive project.

Though, I would LOVE IT......:D

TwinArchers
02-28-2012, 07:58 PM
It would cost money and I wonder what Yessongs is costing? I wonder what the sales are on Amazon and world wide. They must feel it is worth it since Blu Ray is the best format now and it lends cred for future sales. There are problems with two other concerts from what I have heard here about DVD and Blu Ray differences on Symphonic and Montreux not being as good as the DVD counterpart. Will they be fixed or are the critics being too picky??

Doctor Flang
02-29-2012, 03:04 AM
It would cost money and I wonder what Yessongs is costing? I wonder what the sales are on Amazon and world wide. They must feel it is worth it since Blu Ray is the best format now and it lends cred for future sales. There are problems with two other concerts from what I have heard here about DVD and Blu Ray differences on Symphonic and Montreux not being as good as the DVD counterpart. Will they be fixed or are the critics being too picky??

The main problem with the Montreaux set was that it was was taken directly from what was broadcasted, i.e. no re-editing, no audio remixing. Heck, it even included "beeb" when Jon said the naughty f-word. The uneven audio mix was never corrected for DVD or BD (altough the show was recorded on multitrack) and the 5.1. was just an dreaded up-mix. Stupid really, because audio remixing is not that expensive. Symphonic Live BD is ok, but....it omits the option of putting off the cheesy animations. And that is bloody annoying.

Those things won't be fixed because it's not profitable because the product won't sell enough, as most people are not willing to re-buy the same thing again.

Doctor Flang
02-29-2012, 03:40 AM
BTW i'm watching Return to Forever's Montreux blu-ray and it's stunning. I'm quite sure RTF BD won't sell millions either, but still it's done with care and attention.

International
02-29-2012, 12:03 PM
It’s all about caring; the QPR was shot on film with SMPTE time code. The multi track tapes were found by a trunk rental company along with some multi-track tapes from Yessongs and presented to Steve Howe. There are pictures of this somewhere! They could fix this and it would take about 3 weeks of eight hour days to tool up and do it. By the time you were done you would know it better than you ever want to! Remember the passion? </SPAN>

International
02-29-2012, 12:12 PM
What the people say:

The Lost Yes Tapes?

During most of the 1970s CP Cases provided flight cases for Yes' tours. When Yes finally disbanded much of the equipment and old cases were returned to CP's factory, where they have remained in storage. Recently CP employee Peter Ross unpacked what he referred to as "these ancient relics", and discovered reels of live Yes recordings. These included performances recorded throughout 1972--some of which ended up in YESSONGS-- and what may be from QPR in 1975. In all over a dozen reels were found.

Peter and other longtime CP employees presented one of the boxes to the band on April 24 at the Hammersmith Apollo in London, the last show of their European tour. The tapes themselves may have been in a fragile state and were later delivered directly to the band's storage location.

International
02-29-2012, 12:18 PM
Those tapes were the Q.P.R. show so the band has them! Better get the oven warmed up before you play them to digital!

vojta
02-29-2012, 12:32 PM
It’s all about caring; the QPR was shot on film with SMPTE time code.

Off-topic, but now I finally understand why Transatlantic called their first album SMPTE. You learn something every day!

relayeire
02-29-2012, 01:23 PM
There's no point in putting out a new edition of QPR without fixing the sound. Laser disc, VHS, DVD and CD versions all exist, and all have the same audio problems throughout.

I hope they choose a decent master of Yessongs if they are doing a blu-ray. The late-80s VHS was actually a better version of the film than the mid-90s laser disc; the latter had a scratch that ran through a good portion of the second half. Why they used inferior elements for the superior format is anyone's guess.

relayeire
02-29-2012, 01:31 PM
Those tapes were the Q.P.R. show so the band has them! Better get the oven warmed up before you play them to digital!

Is that confirmed? I remember the tapes discovery you mentioned, but this says "what may be from QPR." Much of the material was believed to have been recorded on tour in '72 and got put in cases and forgotten about at the end of the tour. Why would QPR tapes be in there?

International
02-29-2012, 01:46 PM
The guy I talked to way back when from the case company said a few reels were from Yessongs and the rest were from Q.P.R.. I almost did the remaster but they offered no money so I did a Tower of power live album instead. The reason that Yesssongs Rhino VHS sounds & looks better than the Castle Communications 12" Laser disc is because Rhino remastered it to digital and did not share it with Castle. Rhino should rerelease it and I have bugged them for years about it but they won’t just like they won’t release Laurie Anderson “Home of the Brave” at all either! The problem with doing the Q.P.R, would be film speed and making the audio track time line while still being in the original key, that is what pitch transposers are for!</SPAN>

relayeire
02-29-2012, 01:55 PM
The guy I talked to way back when from the case company said a few reels were from Yessongs and the rest were from Q.P.R.. I almost did the remaster but they offered no money so I did a Tower of power live album instead. The reason that Yesssongs Rhino VHS sounds & looks better than the Castle Communications 12" Laser disc is because Rhino remastered it to digital and did not share it with Castle. Rhino should rerelease it and I have bugged them for years about it but they won’t just like they won’t release Laurie Anderson “Home of the Brave” at all either! The problem with doing the Q.P.R, would be film speed and making the audio track time line while still being in the original key, that is what pitch transposers are for!

The later Yessongs is also a different print transfer, judging by that scratch. Thanks for the insider info!

Doctor Flang
02-29-2012, 01:55 PM
The guy I talked to way back when from the case company said a few reels were from Yessongs and the rest were from Q.P.R..</SPAN>

Were the multitracks found after the Word Is Live box set?

Doctor Flang
02-29-2012, 02:11 PM
If the multitracks of QPR were found, that would explain why they were missing from the BBC archives. If i remember correctly, BBC still has the edited film footage with vintage soundtrack (the broadcasted second half of the show with the decent mono sound, and the un-remixed first half). Brian Lane used those for the laser disc.

robusan
02-29-2012, 02:51 PM
Alan White told me that QPR was going to be re-mixed - but that was in 2007!!! I hope this one day happens. I've owned this on VHS, Laserdisc, and DVD. I'll buy another edition if the sound is fixed.

International
02-29-2012, 03:46 PM
The tapes were found in 2006. Alan & Steve were there when they were presented to the band. I worked for a major restoration company then and it was shopped to us but the money was bad so we passed. The trunks they were in had masonite chipboard utility drawers and I am sure there is green mold on the tapes but anything is do-able just get out the magnifying glass and the cue tips. I guess the band at the time was not interested in getting the tapes back so the case company made a big stink in finding them so they could give them back! Oh well, time is clicking away on the greatest recorded version of CTTE that Steve Howe ever played! </SPAN>

Doctor Flang
02-29-2012, 04:19 PM
The tapes were found in 2006. Alan & Steve were there when they were presented to the band. I worked for a major restoration company then and it was shopped to us but the money was bad so we passed. The trunks they were in had masonite chipboard utility drawers and I am sure there is green mold on the tapes but anything is do-able just get out the magnifying glass and the cue tips. I guess the band at the time was not interested in getting the tapes back so the case company made a big stink in finding them so they could give them back! Oh well, time is clicking away on the greatest recorded version of CTTE that Steve Howe ever played!

Oh dear. Robert Fripp would never let something like that happen to the King Crimson archives. And he also pays for people to do what needs to be done.

International
02-29-2012, 04:53 PM
Well, it is their history and for me it is priceless as it is with Moraz and a killer show. I am sure it will be out in 50 years when I am gone just like the Michael Jackson Staples center melt downs will be included in the 40th anniversary “whatever delivery format” survives version of that release when I am 96 years old, maybe! Oh, King Crimson, never see those products discounted or in the used bin much do yah, I don’t, guess passion does win!</SPAN>

TwinArchers
03-01-2012, 08:12 AM
I have always loved the Romantic Warrior album and live version so I will have to get that.




BTW i'm watching Return to Forever's Montreux blu-ray and it's stunning. I'm quite sure RTF BD won't sell millions either, but still it's done with care and attention.

TwinArchers
03-01-2012, 08:14 AM
When was he pressented with this? That is awsome news and gives one hope.



It’s all about caring; the QPR was shot on film with SMPTE time code. The multi track tapes were found by a trunk rental company along with some multi-track tapes from Yessongs and presented to Steve Howe. There are pictures of this somewhere! They could fix this and it would take about 3 weeks of eight hour days to tool up and do it. By the time you were done you would know it better than you ever want to! Remember the passion? </SPAN>

TwinArchers
03-01-2012, 08:25 AM
Thanks International for all the information. I am glad we have someone in the biz on this forum to help us understand the frustration that is Yes. Maybe we should start a collection fund for this project?

International
03-01-2012, 11:26 AM
We should start one, maybe on kickstarter,20 grand should get you there. If anyone is serious and can get the rights from YES Limited, I will make you a complete project list with industry jargon so you can run with the big dogs!</SPAN>

P.S. I will restore the tapes for you for free on this, any takers now?</SPAN>

relayeire
03-01-2012, 03:29 PM
We should start one, maybe on kickstarter,20 grand should get you there. If anyone is serious and can get the rights from YES Limited, I will make you a complete project list with industry jargon so you can run with the big dogs!

P.S. I will restore the tapes for you for free on this, any takers now?

They are stereo tapes, right? The chance to remix a Yesshow like that - especially after listening to awful audio for years - would be a dream come true for many of us.

International
03-01-2012, 04:16 PM
They are 2 24 track reel to reels the big pups or 48 tracks, so 2 24 track machines calibrated & biased and noise reduction (DBX or Dolby) synced up together and running at the same time off the same power supply. It would have to be mixed in Stereo, 5.1 & 7.1 in a studio suite that would have cinematic monitoring and bass frequency management. So imagine me turning up the glock on “To be over” but not too much or having to mask out the wind sound as it was out doors and fixing the bad note Jon sang on the end of gates of delirium and correcting the bad synth intro Moraz did on yours is no disgrace and all his out of tune mini moog playing or the buzz that Jon’s Melody maker had. Not bad for off the top of my head. I would do such a good job that they would want a live album out of it and would have it. Close and side four would be really good! Dreams.</SPAN>

International
03-01-2012, 04:48 PM
The track we have been listening to all these years is actually on the film as an sync up verification track to check & make sure the time code is running right that is why the mix is so bad and things come in and out, it was never meant to be the soundtrack and Eddie didn’t mix it that was front of house or what the audience heard which is not what you are hearing here. This is what is called a scratch track and not for public consumption as you can tell. </SPAN>

TwinArchers
03-02-2012, 11:14 AM
Sounds like a simple fix to me so for heavens sake why have they not fixed it all of these years. LaserDisc, VHS and now DVD. That represents many years and many dollars. First cover artwork was the "slate with color" and then the Roger Dean artwork. I guess with suckers like us there is no reason. Some one is having a laugh I think since they are available again for full price on Amazon.



The track we have been listening to all these years is actually on the film as an sync up verification track to check & make sure the time code is running right that is why the mix is so bad and things come in and out, it was never meant to be the soundtrack and Eddie didnít mix it that was front of house or what the audience heard which is not what you are hearing here. This is what is called a scratch track and not for public consumption as you can tell. </SPAN>

International
03-02-2012, 11:51 AM
The Q.P.R. film is a lark really as the band was never really paid for it & it was supposed to be broadcasted a few times and then destroyed. It was a Harvey Goldstein production so his office had to have approved it. The versions we are buying of this are really kind of legal bootlegs. YES Limited should reclaim it do a cease & desist then re-master it. To do it in HD would be about 20 thousand if you knew someone and got a deal. There is some great news on the analog tape front that would greatly affect the ability to restore & edit this and it is called CLASP

http://www.endlessanalog.com/what-is-clasp</SPAN> (http://www.endlessanalog.com/what-is-clasp)

And look at what tape machines it supports!

http://www.endlessanalog.com/supported-tape-machines</SPAN> (http://www.endlessanalog.com/supported-tape-machines)</SPAN>

relayeire
03-02-2012, 06:21 PM
The Q.P.R. film is a lark really as the band was never really paid for it & it was supposed to be broadcasted a few times and then destroyed. It was a Harvey Goldstein production so his office had to have approved it. The versions we are buying of this are really kind of legal bootlegs. YES Limited should reclaim it do a cease & desist then re-master it. To do it in HD would be about 20 thousand if you knew someone and got a deal. There is some great news on the analog tape front that would greatly affect the ability to restore & edit this and it is called CLASP

http://www.endlessanalog.com/what-is-clasp

And look at what tape machines it supports!

http://www.endlessanalog.com/supported-tape-machines


They should reclaim it, as the shame shoddy product has been put out for years and it reflects poorly on them. I got my laser disc copy 20 years ago this autumn.

International
03-05-2012, 10:30 AM
I hope they do or at least their kids, someday!