Info around Pat exiting Yes

[BlackBeltJones]

I read this interview today, made me a little sad :( I loved Relayer and Pat's contribution to it...

the whole thing is here: http://dmme.net/interviews/moraz.html

just a small excerpt:

"- Were you forced to leave or parting company was friendly?

Unfortunately, I was forced to leave. And even though, at the time, the split "was not made to appear acrimonious", I suffered extremely and extensively. To be "asked to leave" so suddenly put me in a lot of turmoil and disturbance. The fact is, I was never compensated for anything. I never ever got paid for any of my tour participation in the extremely successful and extensive YES Tour of 1976, which comprised about 65 concerts, many of them in front of sold-out audiences of more than 100,000 people. After all, as a member of the band, I was entitled to a 20% cut from what the band was getting.
I don't like to dwell into negatives, however, I can tell you that I had absolutely no desire to want to leave YES, at the time, in November of 1976. We had just finished the biggest tour YES had ever done, the "Bicentennial Tour", a huge, extremely successful tour for YES. Somehow, it had been decided that we would go and record, in my own country, Switzerland, what became the album "Going for the One", which we had extensively composed, developed and rehearsed during the course of 1976 (and even before that). There was no reason in the world for me to want to leave the band! Also, I understood, much later, that Rick was already in town, with his own crew, when I was still in the group, and I was still part of YES.
In addition, it was an extremely complicated and difficult situation for me to be stranded, on the street, with my baby daughter who was only one-month old and her mother, without any transport or money, in the cold winter of Switzerland. Then the fight for survival to stay alive, it all became surreal. "

[TJSlipperman]

Maybe rather than kick Pat out they could have had the two keyboardists work together and have 2 keys-men at once, like what Jethro Tull did with John Evan and D. Palmer around the same time. Who knows where that could have lead?

Anyway, that was a pretty neat and enlightening article to read...

Tim (aka the Slipperman)

[wolfhound]

I've heard Patrick Moraz is a good guy. Sorry to hear of that situation !

[smatt]

Ya Pat's talked about this before...... More Yes = Mess

I'm not all that sure about the money side of it... But it is what it is.. Seems he got Yes-ed :eeek:

[fovman]

Moraz got screwed by The Moody Blues also. He thought he was a full member of the band. I watched some of the trial on Court TV.

[True Believer]

Bummer - poor Pat.

[smatt]

Moraz got screwed by The Moody Blues also. He thought he was a full member of the band. I watched some of the trial on Court TV.


They had THAT on court T.V. Fovvy? Wow...

Ya, the music busines is well screwed.. Just like most others.. Unless you have the money for lawyers...

[AmyK]

This sounds really horrible. Before I think of it as a black eye to my favorite band ,I hope that someone in the know tells the other part of the story. Not that there is any obligation to do so or that anybody is owed an explanation but Patrick, but when a claim is made like this its pretty serious.

Was Patrick hired as a session musician for Relayer? Did he get royalties from it? Did he mismanage those funds so that by the end of the tour he was broke, even if temporarily? How could you record an album with a band signed to a major label and perform 65 concerts and never sign something that spoke in legalese about compensation ?

[Jackaranda]

Moraz got screwed by The Moody Blues also. He thought he was a full member of the band. I watched some of the trial on Court TV.

I've never forgiven Hayward and Lodge for kicking him out. I was a big Moodies fan when Pat was in the band.

[Write a punch line]

Honestly I'm not surprised at this or him finally just stating it.
Although the Gfto is Ricks territory to my ears, regardless of what Steve or Chris worked out melodically around Pat.

Yes has some great tunes, but bizarre baggage.

[DREAMER]

If that is true, and I can't see why Moraz would make it up, then it's disgraceful.

[90125yes]

Shame

Too much water has passed under the bridge now

[Whitefish]

This does not surprise me at all. Yes wanted Rick back and evidentally Jon especially did.

However, I get the feeling that Patrick is not on good terms with certain members of Yes. Steve did not even credit him for To Be Over on his solo album Natural Timbre, which he was credited on Relayer.

Also it has been mentioned that Patrick really wanted to be back in Yes in 1997 and offered them his services right before Igor joined, but "somebody" in the band did not want him back and that was that.

He is also barely mentioned in Bill's autobiography. Very scarcely. I don't know what's up with that!

[tardistraveler]

I'm sure there's many sides to this story . . . Yes is rife with personal difficulties . . . always has been . . .

[Melissa]

Weren't the rest of the band also getting screwed by management and the record company in those years?

I can't remember, I really can't, what I've read about money and those days.

Either way, it totally sux. He was an asset.

[Machine Pariah]

It's too bad that the band isn't interested in playing with Moraz anymore. He was my favorite of their keyboardists-the funkiest(!) and the most harmonically advanced.

Too bad that he didn't sue at the time of his dismissal. They certainly were raking it in in '76. This stinks of Brian Lane but, of course, the rest of the band had to have been complicit in some way.

I saw Pat perform a solo piano concert at a church in Long Island, presented by Yes Magazine, in the mid-late nineties. He seemed like a very nice guy, and did a long Q&A with the small audience afterwards. The depth of his musicality was staggering. Amazing how he's been marginalized, historically. He'd be a real shot in the arm to Yes, but it's never gonna happen.

[Machine Pariah]

I just read the interview.
I never knew that Pat was considered for GTR. Too bad that didn't happen.
The last photo in that article looks bizarre!

[slamsound]

This sounds really horrible. Before I think of it as a black eye to my favorite band ,I hope that someone in the know tells the other part of the story. Not that there is any obligation to do so or that anybody is owed an explanation but Patrick, but when a claim is made like this its pretty serious.

Was Patrick hired as a session musician for Relayer? Did he get royalties from it? Did he mismanage those funds so that by the end of the tour he was broke, even if temporarily? How could you record an album with a band signed to a major label and perform 65 concerts and never sign something that spoke in legalese about compensation ?

I thought the same thing....there HAD to be some big bucks floating around during that time.

I really miss him.....

[Sonny G]

if this is true I feel bad for Moraz, Relayer is my favorite YES album and Moraz's playing was a big part of that.

[kmcpro615]

If that is true, and I can't see why Moraz would make it up, then it's disgraceful.

The music biz is loaded with liars, thieves, con artists and every other type of ne'er do well you can think of. Then there's the bad guys.......

[Olorin]

Moraz got screwed by The Moody Blues also. He thought he was a full member of the band. I watched some of the trial on Court TV.

Seriously? I mean I know the Moodies never accorded him his due recognition as a member of the band, but did he actually sue them on Court TV?

[oliasdoug]

In the 35 years since RELAYER's release, I have wondered what the hell the deal WAS with Patrick leaving the band--this is the first that I've ever read (in his own alleged words) about what the situation actually was. Some YesFans I met with recently answered this for me in essence by telling me that the only reason Pat left was "because Rick wanted to come back to Yes," and therefore Pat had to be shown the door. I think that really sucks, but I WOULD like to hear the whole story...and as someone else posted, wouldn't it have been fantastic (if not just interesting) if egos could have been set aside & Pat could have been JOINED by Rick? 2 keyboardists of that calibre in the greatest prog band of all time? My God.....

I'm also of the belief that Pat's playing on RELAYER lifted the music of Yes to heights they'd never even APPROACHED before and made the album their crowning achievement. I was somewhat happy when I heard he'd joined the Moody Blues (while simultaneously heartbroken at Mike Pinder's departure), but was unaware until now that he'd been kicked out of THAT band as well. The world just doesn't seem to treat some hugely-talented people very well.

[gitsy]

He is also barely mentioned in Bill's autobiography. Very scarcely. I don't know what's up with that!

I agree that it seems odd to not read more about Pat in Bills book given that the made two albums together. Having said that Bill doesn't mention Fish Out Of Water to my surprise.

[gitsy]

Not sure about the personalities but isn't some of Ricks return about business. Ricks was a big name and his return was made for a great story. More bums on seats and more sales.

[rphheather]

This does not surprise me at all. Yes wanted Rick back and evidentally Jon especially did.

However, I get the feeling that Patrick is not on good terms with certain members of Yes. Steve did not even credit him for To Be Over on his solo album Natural Timbre, which he was credited on Relayer.

Also it has been mentioned that Patrick really wanted to be back in Yes in 1997 and offered them his services right before Igor joined, but "somebody" in the band did not want him back and that was that.

He is also barely mentioned in Bill's autobiography. Very scarcely. I don't know what's up with that!

This thread has got me bummed. I love Relayer and it pains me that Patrick got screwed (if that is in fact the case.) I always thought it would have been great if there was a "Relayer II" and reading that it might have happened if it weren't for personality conflicts is very disappointing.:neverlear

[90125yes]

as much as i admire pat's playing i much prefer rick's

similary as much as i like relayer , when compared to the GFTO album

the angular steel and frantic stuff on relayer is not as bright and as majestic as GFTO

i wonder how GFTO would have sounded if PAT was on it ?

[rphheather]

This thread has got me bummed. I love Relayer and it pains me that Patrick got screwed (if that is in fact the case.) I always thought it would have been great if there was a "Relayer II" and reading that it might have happened if it weren't for personality conflicts is very disappointing.:neverlear

as much as i admire pat's playing i much prefer rick's

similary as much as i like relayer , when compared to the GFTO album

the angular steel and frantic stuff on relayer is not as bright and as majestic as GFTO

i wonder how GFTO would have sounded if PAT was on it ?


While it is easy to romanticize what could have been, I wouldn't have traded GFTO for what is behind door number two.Maybe in a perfect Yes world there could have been Relayer II then GFTO.

But to clarify I was referring to the possibility of Patrick rejoining in '97.

[Meng]

Maybe in a perfect Yes world there could have been Relayer II then GFTO.
I would exchange that for the solo albums. I'd have loved Moraz to have done at least one more Yes album as a fully integrated member.

[90125yes]

While it is easy to romanticize what could have been, I wouldn't have traded GFTO for what is behind door number two.Maybe in a perfect Yes world there could have been Relayer II then GFTO.

But to clarify I was referring to the possibility of Patrick rejoining in '97.

---

yes - moraz returning to yes in 97 would have been interesting

but in the absense of rick i would have prefered tony kaye or geoff downes

[DramaRama]

I've never forgiven Hayward and Lodge for kicking him out. I was a big Moodies fan when Pat was in the band.

Also a big fan of Moraz!
I saw the Moddies w/Patrick. Then went to see them again not knowing Patrick had been kicked out, What a difference! They really took a BIG step backwards without him on keys! I won't go see the Moodies again after that!


and to think we could have had Moraz instead of Igor in 1997! UGH
the trials of being a YESfan!

[YESMAN90125]

My understanding is that his departure was mostly Jon and Chris's doing. Jon said in a few places that he came back from the tour "spaced out" when they were going into the studio and the had trouble with communication.
Chris Said that he thought Relayer was Patricks finest work anywhere with any band , but the seemed to be suddenly unable to communicate.
I've never heard Steve or Alan comment on it at all.
I have heard this story from Patrick many times (similar to tony kayes situation) that he did the work wrote the songs and was bounced without getting payed.
I suspect that the main thing was this strong desire to get back with Wakeman and Wakeman lobbying in the backround to return
If i were patrick I'd take the tapes he says he has and go to court
Tony did it and won why not patrick?

[90125yes]

is there any mileage in raking all this up after all this time ?

[pianozach]

is there any mileage in raking all this up after all this time ?

Mileage?

Well, no.

And yes.

No, in the sense that it is not "constructive", and that it creates bad feelings about something we here all love: The music.

But yes, in the sense that we love the music so much, we relish any and all information about the band that creates that music that we all love. We crave the understanding of the hows and whys. We love the gossip just as much as the folks at the supermarket checkout can't resist picking up a copy of People or the National Enquirer while we're waiting. We are fascinated by the machinations of the industry and its players just as much as history buffs love hearing the inside story of the JFK or FDR administrations.

Not all of us, of course.

And we can usually separate the music from the backstory. But not always. Take UNION, or ABWH, for example. While both are actually solid albums, UNION is slammed for its numerous not-Yes overdubs and corporate medling, while ABWH is slammed for being a Anderson-led solo project with former Yes sidemen, and for the absence of Squire.

And some folks actually don't like RELAYER that much, oftimes citing Wakey's absence as a primary reason. But it, too is a musically superb album.

You can still hear the echoes of Patrick on GftO . . .

As sMatt pointed out, Patrick wasn't the first nor last Yesman that has an "I've been screwed by Yes" story. Banks, Kaye, even Howe, Jobson, and Rabin could tell us stories. Perhaps even Jon and Billy as well. Some tell the stories, others just leave well enough alone.

such great music

so much drama . . .

[gathernear]

is there any mileage in raking all this up after all this time ?

This thread was dormant for nearly 2 months before you posted to it.

[profusion]

Not sure about the personalities but isn't some of Ricks return about business. Ricks was a big name and his return was made for a great story. More bums on seats and more sales.

If you believe Chris Welch's account, Brian Lane wanted Wakeman back in the band, since he managed them both, and Rick's solo career took a serious commercial nosedive in 1976. The idea, I believe was that Rick's return would commercially benefit both Rick and Yes, since he was a bigger 'name' than Moraz but also could benefit from the exposure of being in Yes.

That doesn't foreclose the possibility of conflicts within the band. Just reading his interviews, I can imagine his strongly Gallic personality clashing with the more reserved nature of the English guys in the band.

As for his getting screwed over upon leaving the band, he was neither the first nor the last one to experience that. Yes, the business organization, can be a shady deal.

IMHO, Patrick is far and away the most talented keyboardist that Yes ever had. It's a shame that they never properly tapped into that talent on record, since Relayer was largely written before he joined. I can hear his influence all over GFTO, especially on "Awaken" and "Wondrous Stories."

[rmig68]

Someone here mentioned they'd like to hear more about this, and I agree. Hopefully to clear it up. But, wow, Rick high-tailed it out of there after a short time later, what a year or two?

Leaving someone like that with a baby daughter would really be a terrible thing and far from being spiritually positive, it would be rather disgusting.

Don't promote yourselves as having high ideals, when the latter may be true.

Too many of these stories, man. Sure, yeah, "it's like anybody getting fired." Sure, just don't write your music like you're anything more or less than a middle manager at some company then.

That sucks.

[Yes.2]

The other side of the story is missing?

He had to of done something really wrong to of soured the stew to the point that they dumped him to the curb as they did.

[neilius]

Wakey story of him rejoining Yes in '76 is pretty well known, so i won't recant it.

It seems to me that Moraz's departure was a set up.
After all, it's business at the end of the day is'nt it, Mr Lane?

[90125yes]

This thread was dormant for nearly 2 months before you posted to it.

---

i will take that as a rep then ??

:beerchugr:

[90125yes]

Wakey story of him rejoining Yes in '76 is pretty well known, so i won't recant it.

It seems to me that Moraz's departure was a set up.
After all, it's business at the end of the day is'nt it, Mr Lane?

---

wakeman put more colour into YES when he rejoined for GFTO

if you listen to the story of I by Moraz - you realise what is true style is

for me it is not for YES

[Earl Grey]

The other side of the story is missing?

He had to of done something really wrong to of soured the stew to the point that they dumped him to the curb as they did.

From what I've heard (And I've heard Pat's side FROM Pat, and Chris's side from Chris, albeit, to a lesser extent), was that Wakeman was simply considered more of an asset to the band. A bigger name, a bigger cape... Remember, Rick was, and is, a Superstar in his own right. He was a bigger draw than Moraz.

...And the fact that Wakey was British also played in Rick's favor.

No matter what anyone says, YES does consider themselves to be a 'British' band.

When Patrick joined YES, Wakeman had left on his own accord, and there was that whole fusion-jazz thing going on (Mahavishnu Orchestra/etc), so YES decided to play with that, to keep things fresh... It was seen as an area they hadn't explored yet, and Moraz is an excellent fusion player. So he was the right player, at the right time.

Patrick did tell me (In the Galaxy Theater Parking Lot, after the NAMM show, a few years ago) that he had indeed composed the 'Workings Of Man' portion of 'Awaken', and never received credit... The whole modulation-bit towards the end of the song. He also claimed to have written quite a bit of everything else that went on the GFTO album.

'Turn Of The Century' doesn't sound Moraz-ish to me at all though. Neither does the title track.

Hell, I don't know.

I've watched the rehearsal videos, and it seems as though the band had an idea where they were going, and were hammering-out the details, rather than writing the album from scratch. So there might be some credibility to what Patrick was saying, as to his role in composition.

Chris usually 'harumphs' when asked about Moraz... Even when I've mentioned how good he sounded with the band. Chris once mentioned a 'language barrier', but I thought Patrick's english was fine when I spoke with him.

That's all I know. Patrick sounded honest, and honestly hurt by the way things were handled, he was driving an old beaten-up car...

It was sad to hear what he had to say about his experience with the band, but then again, would we have ever heard of Moraz if he hadn't been on Relayer?

Maybe. Maybe things would have gone better for him if he hadn't had his stint with the band. Who knows? I couldn't imagine RELAYER without Patrick Moraz though... He really added to that album.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but Patrick seems more open to talking about it than Chris is, maybe that will change someday!

A personal observation: On old 'established' Yessongs, sometimes Patrick would take a lot of liberty in his solos, and even in opening bars of things like 'And You And I', which really require the notes that were originally written for the song to achieve the greatest impact.

I'm not sure if Moraz's tendency to improvise in that way had anything to do with his being dropped. But perhaps it did.

Patrick is the nicest guy, was thrilled that we recognized him, and were interested in what he did, and was doing. And he seemed happy. Which I guess is the most important thing. Happy to be playing in churches, and doing small gigs. Happy to be writing, and releasing his own CDs. He seemed very 'spiritually' minded.

Here's the thing about YES, they are always in flux, and you have to be careful about having favorite band members, because, as we've all seen, anyone in the band can be replaced!

I do get the feeling that if Rick Wakeman is available, YES is going to go with him. It's the old 'Classic Line-Up' thing again, which does add to the band's draw.

I'm going to get in trouble one of these days, writing this stuff. (NEVER!)

EarlieGee:yesbird:

[90125yes]

From what I've heard (And I've heard Pat's side FROM Pat, and Chris's side from Chris, albeit, to a lesser extent), was that Wakeman was simply considered more of an asset to the band. A bigger name, a bigger cape... Remember, Rick was, and is, a Superstar in his own right. He was a bigger draw than Moraz.

...And the fact that Wakey was British also played in Rick's favor.

No matter what anyone says, YES does consider themselves to be a 'British' band.

When Patrick joined YES, Wakeman had left on his own accord, and there was that whole fusion-jazz thing going on (Mahavishnu Orchestra/etc), so YES decided to play with that, to keep things fresh... It was seen as an area they hadn't explored yet, and Moraz is an excellent fusion player. So he was the right player, at the right time.

Patrick did tell me (In the Galaxy Theater Parking Lot, after the NAMM show, a few years ago) that he had indeed composed the 'Workings Of Man' portion of 'Awaken', and never received credit... The whole modulation-bit towards the end of the song. He also claimed to have written quite a bit of everything else that went on the GFTO album.

'Turn Of The Century' doesn't sound Moraz-ish to me at all though. Neither does the title track.

Hell, I don't know.

I've watched the rehearsal videos, and it seems as though the band had an idea where they were going, and were hammering-out the details, rather than writing the album from scratch. So there might be some credibility to what Patrick was saying, as to his role in composition.

Chris usually 'harumphs' when asked about Moraz... Even when I've mentioned how good he sounded with the band. Chris once mentioned a 'language barrier', but I thought Patrick's english was fine when I spoke with him.

That's all I know. Patrick sounded honest, and honestly hurt by the way things were handled, he was driving an old beat-up car...

It was sad to hear what he had to say about his experience with the band, but then again, would we have ever heard of Moraz if he hadn't been on Relayer?

Maybe. Maybe things would have gone better for him if he hadn't had his stint with the band. Who knows?

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but Patrick seems more open to talking about it than Chris is, maybe that will change someday!

A personal observation: On old 'established' Yessongs, sometimes Patrick would take a lot of liberty in his solos. I'm not sure if that had anything to do with it. But perhaps it did. I've never been told by anyone in the band that this had anything to do with him being dropped so quickly...

Patrick is the nicest guy, was thrilled that we recognized him, and were interested in what he did, and was doing. And he seemed happy. Which I guess is the most important thing. Happy to be playing in churches, and doing small gigs. Happy to be writing, and releasing his own CDs. He seemed very 'spiritually' minded.

Here's the thing about YES, they are always in flux, and you have to be careful about having favorite band members, because, as we've all seen, anyone in the band can be replaced!

I do get the feeling that if Rick Wakeman is available, YES is going to go with him. It's the old 'Classic Line-Up' thing again, which does add to the band's draw.

I'm going to get in trouble one of these days, writing this stuff. (NEVER!)

EarlieGee:yesbird:

---

great post - thanks

the classic line up is indeed up for 2010

:beerchugr:

[Earl Grey]

---

great post - thanks

the classic line up is indeed up for 2010

:beerchugr:

Thank You!

:ele:...I was still editing myself when you quoted me! :lmao:

Ah well, it's difficult to talk about past members of the band. I don't want to sound like I'm dissing anyone, past or present.

I've met most of the guys, and they're all great players, and great people, all the way around.

So while I want to be as honest as possible, I don't want to diminish anyone's role in the band's history either.

Personally, I'm glad that Rick is on 'Going For The One'. He added a warmth that I think might have been a little trickier to achieve if Patrick had played on the album.

But don't get me wrong: Moraz is no slouch.

...Maybe if they had given him some composition credits, it wouldn't have been such a sting for Moraz.

But... This is YES we're talking about, and alas, the band can be pretty brutal at times.

I can totally run with another 'Classic Line-Up' tour, bye the way.

One thing for sure, YES is never 'predictable', and I think that that wild-card element adds to the charm of the band.

Earl:yesbird:

[90125yes]

Thank You!

:ele:...I was still editing myself when you quoted me! :lmao:

Ah well, it's difficult to talk about past members of the band. I don't want to sound like I'm dissing anyone, past or present.

I've met most of the guys, and they're all great players, and great people, all the way around.

So while I want to be as honest as possible, I don't want to diminish anyone's role in the band's history either.

Personally, I'm glad that Rick is on 'Going For The One'. He added a warmth that I think might have been a little trickier to achieve if Patrick had played on the album.

But don't get me wrong: Moraz is no slouch.

...Maybe if they had given him some composition credits, it wouldn't have been such a sting for Moraz.

But... This is YES we're talking about, and alas, the band can be pretty brutal at times.

I can totally run with another 'Classic Line-Up' tour, bye the way.

One thing for sure, YES is never 'predictable', and I think that that wild-card element adds to the charm of the band.

Earl:yesbird:

---

agreed - thanks again

i just wish YES would go for the union thing again and tour with as many of present previous players and put the appropriate lineup up on stage for each song they play

this would mend " old wounds " - for example bring in peter for astral traveller and patrick for gates

but would it ever happen ?

[happytheman]

If i were patrick I'd take the tapes he says he has and go to court
Tony did it and won why not patrick?
I must have missed a part of Yes' history, care to elaborate on the bit about Tony and "tapes"?

[rmig68]

We all understand the business side of wanting Rick back, and of course his playing. We all love Rick. What I have a huge problem with, is services rendered. When you cut through all the crap, a man still should be paid for what he's done.

That is dishonest and quite frankly, thievery.

Why, so Jon could run up his tab, go to Hawaii, and squander it.

Let's face it, that is far worse than just cutting someone.

Jeez, that's rotten and should be illegal.

I'm not sure if anyone's ever seen George Carlin's rant on The Ten Commandments. Basically he wittles them all down to one thing. One commandment we should follow:

"Thou Shall Not Be Dishonest."

Well, they were very dishonest if they didn't pay him.

[Earl Grey]

I must have missed a part of Yes' history, care to elaborate on the bit about Tony and "tapes"?

There are songs that Tony helped compose, that he never received credit for. He took the band to court, and he won his case, as he had tapes of the songs in-progress with which to prove his case with.

SOooOooooooo..... Tony was 'compensated', and we'll never see good 'Ol TK in YES again.

Which is just as well, as I LOVE hearing Tony playing in CIRCA:

He's appreciated in CIRCA:, and those guys would never EVER take credit for something TK had written. They actually appreciate him, as they should. Tony is a monster player, and a fantastic writer.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A bit more on Moraz: I'm sitting here right now, listening to Return To Forever's 'Romantic Warrior': God it sounds like parts of 'RELAYER'.

I think Pat Moraz was hired by the band to sound and do exactly what he sounded like and did.

BUT: When the guys went on to record Going For The One, they wanted warmth, a bit less 'pitch-blend bar', and maybe Patrick could have done that, but maybe not. And alas, we'll never know.

With Rick available again, and actually excited at the prospect of playing with YES (Rick mentioned how, ''YES were playing 'songs' again instead of extended epics..." al la 'TALES'), Moraz's fate was sealed.

In a perfect world, there would have been another fusion-inspired album, with Patrick Moraz, in between RELAYER and GFTO.

If I only had a time machine, and a gazillion £ contract for a second YES/Moraz album!

I'm working on the time machine. The gazillion pounds are pending, once I receive payment for the patent on the time machine. :lmao:

eegee:yesbird:

[YESOLA]

Patrick sounds like the nicest guy whenever I hear an interview with him. Very entertaining, engaging.

I don't think there is any question that he got a bit of the shaft in all this, probably for all of the reasons that Earl mentions. All I know is that his work with the band was terrific.

Yes wanted Wakeman back, pure and $$$imple.

[CosmicDebris]

I saw the court tv thing with Patrick V. the Moody Blues and honestly that whole thing was a joke. He and the lawyer he hired seemed more interested in starting drama that actually tanking the trial seriously and he was scolded by the judge at one point. In the end I think he got only a small fraction of what he was suing for.

[spoukeego]

i find it hard to believe he was never paid for the 76 tour.

[LJG]

It's rock and roll... and business.

The higher up on pedastools we set people... the farther there is to fall.

At the end of the day, I try to separate the music from the musician; the art from the artist; the book from the author.

I know with bands like Yes we may all feel this is harder to achieve... but I find it is the healthiest solution.

[profusion]

If I recall my Yes history correctly, Wakeman did GFTO as a session musician and hadn't intended to rejoin Yes. However, the band announced to Melody Maker that he had officially rejoined before they even bothered to ask him!

Brian Lane was apparently quite a 'character'--even Bruford admits to that in his generally favorable description of him. Unfortunately, such people are necessary to navigate through the shark-infested waters of the music business. But there's always a trail of bodies, isn't there?

Patrick is a very unique musician, and I still say it's a shame he never really got his day in the sun within Yes. It would have been very different, but also very interesting.

[PastPresentMover]

[QUOTE=Earl Grey;1833995]
BUT: When the guys went on to record Going For The One, they wanted warmth, a bit less 'pitch-blend bar', and maybe Patrick could have done that, but maybe not. And alas, we'll never know.

Well said, Earl (like always). I'm the biggest Moraz fan out there, but I couldn't possibly imagine "Awaken" without the mighty church organ. Patrick rocked the Relayer album, but I always thought that his church organ sound (live) missed the power of Mr. Wakeman. I totally agree with the "pitch blend bar" sound. A little too much of that.

[90125yes]

If I recall my Yes history correctly, Wakeman did GFTO as a session musician and hadn't intended to rejoin Yes. However, the band announced to Melody Maker that he had officially rejoined before they even bothered to ask him!

Brian Lane was apparently quite a 'character'--even Bruford admits to that in his generally favorable description of him. Unfortunately, such people are necessary to navigate through the shark-infested waters of the music business. But there's always a trail of bodies, isn't there?

Patrick is a very unique musician, and I still say it's a shame he never really got his day in the sun within Yes. It would have been very different, but also very interesting.

---

good post

ah the memories , i remember the cover of melody maker all too well

:beerchugr:

[Orbert]

Regarding Patrick's departure from Yes, we'll never know exactly why. I'm sure it's a combination of things mentioned here in this thread, and maybe even one or two things no one outside the band knows about.

What bothers me the most is the idea that he was never paid. I've been kicked out of bands, and I've been on the other side too, but you always pay someone for their work, regardless of the circumstances surrounding their departure (unless of course they stole from you or something, which obviously is not the case here).

[bjlevine]

Whatever the deal was then, he is still on good terms with the band. I saw him backstage at the concert in Clearwater, FL last year.

[happytheman]

There are songs that Tony helped compose, that he never received credit for. He took the band to court, and he won his case, as he had tapes of the songs in-progress with which to prove his case with.

SOooOooooooo..... Tony was 'compensated', and we'll never see good 'Ol TK in YES again.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A bit more on Moraz: I'm sitting here right now, listening to Return To Forever's 'Romantic Warrior': God it sounds like parts of 'RELAYER'.

I think Pat Moraz was hired by the band to sound and do exactly what he sounded like and did.

BUT: When the guys went on to record Going For The One, they wanted warmth, a bit less 'pitch-blend bar', and maybe Patrick could have done that, but maybe not. And alas, we'll never know.

With Rick available again, and actually excited at the prospect of playing with YES (Rick mentioned how, ''YES were playing 'songs' again instead of extended epics..." al la 'TALES'), Moraz's fate was sealed.

:yesbird:
Thanks for the "clarification". I thought maybe he was pulling a Peter Banks and saying he wrote some of the Fragile material and wanted compensation. Bruford covered this subject quite well when he discussed the ABWH "deal" where they simply credited everyone for the material. Obviously Bruford and Kaye must have missed out on $'s from material they contributed to on the first 3 albums.
Regarding Moraz..
Interesting take, he sure sounded "warm" to me on the Moody Blues releases in the 80's. Again it's all water under the bridge at this point. But Yes as a band has a long history of leaving people in their "wake". Jon can put it so politely when he talks of people "getting off the bus" and people getting "on the bus".
The truth is Howe and Anderson are very territorial.

[profusion]

What bothers me the most is the idea that he was never paid. I've been kicked out of bands, and I've been on the other side too, but you always pay someone for their work, regardless of the circumstances surrounding their departure (unless of course they stole from you or something, which obviously is not the case here).

Yes has a history of this.

Peter and Tony both had to sue Yes to recover money they believed they were owed.

Bruford actually had to pay money to Yes in order to leave the band in 1972!

Trevor Horn claims he was only paid $10,000 out of the £30,000 he was contractually owed for the 1980 U.S. tour, since the rest of the band had pissed away the tour proceeds by bringing their families over for the trip and living it up.

When a band gets to be big business, and especially a poorly run business like Yes Inc., things can get very nasty.

[90125yes]

wow this thread needs to lighten up

what yes song shall we all sing together ?

[Write a punch line]

I'm listening to A Venture. Seems good.

[90125yes]

I'm listening to A Venture. Seems good.

--

great record

much underated

:beerchugr:

[90125yes]

not to hideaway

sing along now now

[rmig68]

It's rock and roll... and business.

The higher up on pedastools we set people... the farther there is to fall.

At the end of the day, I try to separate the music from the musician; the art from the artist; the book from the author.

I know with bands like Yes we may all feel this is harder to achieve... but I find it is the healthiest solution.

Yeah, unfortunately you're right. There are a few sayings along those lines. "Separate the artist from the art," "You may not want to meet your heroes."
"Yes is larger than the sum of its parts."

The only Yes member I ever met was Steve, and he was very nice and signed an autograph...thankfully though, I wasn't wondering what my cut was or what my membership in the band was for the next tour and album.

Let's start a "Pay Patrick Moraz!" thread.

The other stuff, well, that's gonna happen.

[rmig68]

wow this thread needs to lighten up

what yes song shall we all sing together ?

"Money" off YesYears:

"Money come, money go
Money high, money low..."

[90125yes]

"Money" off YesYears:

"Money come, money go
Money high, money low..."

---

good one

rick on vocals as well

:beerchugr:

[ariceffron]

Earl Grey

so tony won the case!! hell yeah!! i would love to read that case i bet its interesting about the making of 90125! so why do u correlate TK never being in yes again w/ winning the case? i dont get it....

[M-Class Planet]

Dont' forget that the management team made bill pay when he wanted to leave Yes - and quite a sum as well. so I don't think thay there was a lot of love etc in the admin side of Yes

Lane needed to get RW back in Yes as he was practicaly bankrupt after the big shows and a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge tax problem.

i cannot find fault in what Pat does on Relayer but the live recordings ive heard of him playing material from The Yes Album, fragile and close to the edge leave me cold.

[M-Class Planet]

Patrick did tell me (In the Galaxy Theater Parking Lot, after the NAMM show, a few years ago) that he had indeed composed the 'Workings Of Man' portion of 'Awaken', and never received credit... The whole modulation-bit towards the end of the song. He also claimed to have written quite a bit of everything else that went on the GFTO album.

EarlieGee:yesbird:

I don't doubt your word but i find that really hard to beleive as in a composition point of view the chord progressions and modulations in that segment reek of Rick Wakeman. Similer progression in Future times/Rejoice though obviously not as epic.

[Earl Grey]

I don't doubt your word but i find that really hard to beleive as in a composition point of view the chord progressions and modulations in that segment reek of Rick Wakeman. Similer progression in Future times/Rejoice though obviously not as epic.

Well, I don't know if it's true, as I wasn't there when they rehearsed what was to become Awaken.

But Patrick seems like a pretty straight-forward kind of a guy to me, nothing that he said seemed outrageous or unbelievable.

I have no problem believing that he wrote the modulation-bit of Awaken: It really doesn't sound like anything else that the band had recorded up to that point (although, yes: They did reiterate some of the same patterns in Future Times/Rejoice).

At this point, all we have to go on are the stories that past and present members of the band tell us about what happened, decades ago.

Patrick didn't sound as though he had an axe to grind. I simply asked him a question (as it had been rumored that he had a hand in some of the music which went-on to become the GFTO album), and he answered my question.

But there was no anger involved, he said that he was happy for the time he had spent in YES.

So why lie about something if there wasn't a motive?

Again, we're talking about an album that was recorded nearly thirty years ago. Memories get convoluted, and stories get embellished and tangled after so great a time-span.

There was an earnestness to Patrick when he spoke of writing that part of the song though, he's not suing anyone, and it wasn't as though he said he had written the entire album...

So I have no trouble in taking Patrick at his word on the subject.
~~~~~~~~~

Wakeman is such a strong player, and has such a distinct style, that whatever he puts his hand to becomes his own. Just look at his playing on 'America'. This was originally a song that Tony had played on (as witnessed on the 'In A Word: YES' CD).

Rick didn't really change anything Tony had done, yet the arrangement really sounds like something Rick had been part-of from inception.

'Awaken' went on to become a showcase number for Rick, but 'Workings Of Man' could have easily originated from Moraz.

All music comes from somewhere, and is the sum-total of what is around us, that which we have created, or have added to. If Moraz indeed wrote that part of the song, it doesn't diminish what Wakeman created.

It simply adds to the story of one of the greatest songs, perhaps the greatest song, that YES ever recorded.


Earl:yesbird::rightG:

[rjgtr]

Yes has always been about arranging ideas. If you hear Anderson's version of south side of the sky on acoustic guitar verses the Fragile version, there's a bit more chord changes etc. The whole piano thing in the middle wasn't Anderson after all, but obviously Wakeman. But still no credit for Wakeman.

So if you just go by the basic melodies and words, then Yes not crediting certain musicians with composition makes sense. But in some cases it's probably not fair, since substantial portions of a song were contributed to by the others.

I personally thought Pat in the Moody Blues was a mixed bag. He could be way too over the top. To me Mike Pinder is the ideal keyboard player for the Moody Blues. He was such a sympathetic player and a great orchestrator.

Yes is/was a brutal organization. The only ones to leave by their own will was Bruford, Anderson and Wakeman. That Bruford lost out was his own fault. He never should have let Brian Lane take his royalties. But then again, Crimson wasn't much better until the 80's version of the band on compensation.

[jpirard]

Dont' forget that the management team made bill pay when he wanted to leave Yes - and quite a sum as well. so I don't think thay there was a lot of love etc in the admin side of Yes

Lane needed to get RW back in Yes as he was practicaly bankrupt after the big shows and a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge tax problem.

i cannot find fault in what Pat does on Relayer but the live recordings ive heard of him playing material from The Yes Album, fragile and close to the edge leave me cold.

I wish I knew where exactly I read it recently, but for the record, WAKEMAN categorically denies he was bankrupt....

[jpirard]

Well, I don't know if it's true, as I wasn't there when they rehearsed what was to become Awaken.

But Patrick seems like a pretty straight-forward kind of a guy to me, nothing that he said seemed outrageous or unbelievable.

I have no problem believing that he wrote the modulation-bit of Awaken: It really doesn't sound like anything else that the band had recorded up to that point (although, yes: They did reiterate some of the same patterns in Future Times/Rejoice).

At this point, all we have to go on are the stories that past and present members of the band tell us about what happened, decades ago.

Patrick didn't sound as though he had an axe to grind. I simply asked him a question (as it had been rumored that he had a hand in some of the music which went-on to become the GFTO album), and he answered my question.

But there was no anger involved, he said that he was happy for the time he had spent in YES.

So why lie about something if there wasn't a motive?

Again, we're talking about an album that was recorded nearly thirty years ago. Memories get convoluted, and stories get embellished and tangled after so great a time-span.

There was an earnestness to Patrick when he spoke of writing that part of the song though, he's not suing anyone, and it wasn't as though he said he had written the entire album...

So I have no trouble in taking Patrick at his word on the subject.
~~~~~~~~~

Wakeman is such a strong player, and has such a distinct style, that whatever he puts his hand to becomes his own. Just look at his playing on 'America'. This was originally a song that Tony had played on (as witnessed on the 'In A Word: YES' CD).

Rick didn't really change anything Tony had done, yet the arrangement really sounds like something Rick had been part-of from inception.

'Awaken' went on to become a showcase number for Rick, but 'Workings Of Man' could have easily originated from Moraz.

All music comes from somewhere, and is the sum-total of what is around us, that which we have created, or have added to. If Moraz indeed wrote that part of the song, it doesn't diminish what Wakeman created.

It simply adds to the story of one of the greatest songs, perhaps the greatest song, that YES ever recorded.


Earl:yesbird::rightG:

They do at least give 'special thanks' in the liner notes...

[happytheman]

Wakeman is such a strong player, and has such a distinct style, that whatever he puts his hand to becomes his own. Just look at his playing on 'America'. This was originally a song that Tony had played on (as witnessed on the 'In A Word: YES' CD).






Earl:yesbird::rightG:
Where did I read that Wakeman didn't play a note on that song.... Bill Bruford did the keyboard parts. Obviously Wakeman played it live but for whatever reason Wakeman didn't like the song and thus contributed nothing to the version that was released on Yesterdays.

[Meng]

Where did I read that Wakeman didn't play a note on that song.... Bill Bruford did the keyboard parts. Obviously Wakeman played it live but for whatever reason Wakeman didn't like the song and thus contributed nothing to the version that was released on Yesterdays.

I seem to remember reading that BB only played the Mellotron at the end.

[happytheman]

I seem to remember reading that BB only played the Mellotron at the end.
Could be, I'll check Yesstories today, I'm sure I read it somewhere.

[bjlevine]

I saw Patrick backstage in December at the Yes gig in Clearwater, so obviously, he is on reasonable terms with the current lineup.

I love Patrick's work on Relayer, but I have to admit to being less than thrilled with his interpretations of earlier Yes classics. His playing can be very loose on stage.

[9012-jive]

Ya Pat's talked about this before...... More Yes = Mess

I'm not all that sure about the money side of it... But it is what it is.. Seems he got Yes-ed :eeek:


I've still heard rumors that "it was smatt's fault" floating around ...

[Earl Grey]

I've still heard rumors that "it was smatt's fault" floating around ...

This is correct. It's ALL Smatt's fault!

...I heard they're even renaming the San Andreas Fault line the San Smatt Fault Line... So when California goes tumbling into the Pacific, we'll all know who's to blame!!!

:dog:

...Wish Smatt would come out of hiding, I'm calling him up today!

Earlie:rightG:

[Revolution9]

Patrick Moraz is coming to my house for Thanksgiving.

[YesFanOrlando]

---

i just wish YES would go for the union thing again and tour with as many of present previous players and put the appropriate lineup up on stage for each song they play

but would it ever happen ?

Do they even make stages that big? ;)

As far as Patrick goes, I thought he was a great asset, a change-up and maybe even a part of a recharge for the group. Relayer is my favorite, partly because they really stretched out into more aggressive stuff. Going For The One had its share as well; wonder how much if any of that was Patrick's influence or ideas rubbing off on the rest of the band?

It's always sad to hear not-so-flattering facts about your favorite artists. When i found out Marc Bolan had the other members of T. Rex on a pretty paltry salary when the band was making millions, it was indeed a bummer. Ya just never know, and I almost wish that I didn't sometimes.

[Soundchaser_413]

Both Pat and Peter Banks seem to have been victims of poor timing and bad luck. It's really a shame. THey should have started their own band together where they would be in charge and not be kicked out.

[shortexchanges]

Another spinal tap story of my favorite band. I worked as a roadie in my frat band in college and it shows no matter how inspirational and excellent the music yes produced, it was still created by mortal misicians with the attendent quirks therein.

I feel sorry for Pat but would like to believe apathy not malice was the unintended intent from the other band members.

Usually the managers do the financial screw jobs with knowledge or censent of the band.

Relayer to me is the continuation of Close to the Edge and I like Relayer more as it Rocks harder.

I am sorry that Mr Moraz got screwed.

[Orbert]

Patrick Moraz is coming to my house for Thanksgiving.

How was he? Did he hog all the mashed potatoes or anything, or was he a good guy?

[Jonk]

This does not surprise me at all. Yes wanted Rick back and evidentally Jon especially did.

However, I get the feeling that Patrick is not on good terms with certain members of Yes. Steve did not even credit him for To Be Over on his solo album Natural Timbre, which he was credited on Relayer.

Also it has been mentioned that Patrick really wanted to be back in Yes in 1997 and offered them his services right before Igor joined, but "somebody" in the band did not want him back and that was that.

He is also barely mentioned in Bill's autobiography. Very scarcely. I don't know what's up with that!

Geoff Downes was actually offered the job on the Open Your Eyes tour but turned it down due to the ongoing work with Asia who were about to release their first album for three years. Geoff did however play with yes when they played the Princes trust gig without Jon. By the way Patrick Moraz never made a definite offer to yes at the time he said "If you are stuck" but by that time Igor had already been hired.:headset:

[relayeire]

Geoff Downes was actually offered the job on the Open Your Eyes tour but turned it down due to the ongoing work with Asia who were about to release their first album for three years. Geoff did however play with yes when they played the Princes trust gig without Jon. By the way Patrick Moraz never made a definite offer to yes at the time he said "If you are stuck" but by that time Igor had already been hired.:headset:


Igor was a good player. But I was disappointed, after the "classic lineup" reunion faltered in '96(?) and things got delayed, that we didn't get someone like Moraz to make up for the loss of Wakeman.

[happytheman]

Igor was a good player.
I've recently got on an Igor kick and have listened to several boots from the tours he was with the band.
This guy was (is) impressive as hell. He nails every song. If he could have behaved himself better on tour, Magnification would have been a different story.
I still have not been able to find a copy of his first solo album.

[Jackaranda]

What is it about Patrick? The Moodies booted him also, claiming that he was merely a "side man" for all those years...that "side man" had as much to do with Long Distance Voyager becoming #1 and the Moodies impressive comeback in the 80's as anyone did.

[bjlevine]

Patrick was perfect on Relayer material, but his interpretation of earlier pieces often seemed sloppy, and occasionally inappropriate.

Thankful I got to see them with Rick again in 2002. One of the best shows ever.

[happytheman]

Patrick was perfect on Relayer material, but his interpretation of earlier pieces often seemed sloppy, and occasionally inappropriate.

Thankful I got to see them with Rick again in 2002. One of the best shows ever.
It seems to be hit or miss with Patrick with regards to his "interpretations". Several boots I have show a nice choice of "restraint". Others he is all over the place.
Ritual seemed to be his most consistent piece.

[Orbert]

I've heard boots of Pat playing some of Rick's material, and I don't always agree with what he plays, but for that matter I don't always agree with what Rick plays on his own material. I just figure that Rick must get bored playing the same thing for years and years, so anything different is almost automatically "better". But I've heard some patch choices and embellishments that have made me wonder what he was thinking.

Pat doesn't seem to get the same pass from most Yesfans because he's reinterpreting someone else's work. Basically, all of the guys can get pretty "out there" in a live setting; Pat's extremes just don't seem to fit as well with the rest of the group.

[M-Class Planet]

I've heard boots of Pat playing some of Rick's material, and I don't always agree with what he plays, but for that matter I don't always agree with what Rick plays on his own material. I just figure that Rick must get bored playing the same thing for years and years, so anything different is almost automatically "better". But I've heard some patch choices and embellishments that have made me wonder what he was thinking.

Pat doesn't seem to get the same pass from most Yesfans because he's reinterpreting someone else's work. Basically, all of the guys can get pretty "out there" in a live setting; Pat's extremes just don't seem to fit as well with the rest of the group.


That's really interesting. I completely agree with you re- Wakeman. I don't think i've yet heard a live rendition of a piece that was anywhere near as good as his recorded work. his sound choices from the early eighties onward have been pretty questionable; those rubbish korgs. arghghghgh

Six wives is a perfect album to my ears; it doesn't need embelleshed.

You don't hear to much extra on Eine kleine Nachtmusik, just the artist impressing their personality into the confines of the music structure, not re-writing it.

[90125yes]

maybe no body could speak swiss and wear particks flaired trousers !!!

[90125yes]

I've heard boots of Pat playing some of Rick's material, and I don't always agree with what he plays, but for that matter I don't always agree with what Rick plays on his own material. I just figure that Rick must get bored playing the same thing for years and years, so anything different is almost automatically "better". But I've heard some patch choices and embellishments that have made me wonder what he was thinking.

Pat doesn't seem to get the same pass from most Yesfans because he's reinterpreting someone else's work. Basically, all of the guys can get pretty "out there" in a live setting; Pat's extremes just don't seem to fit as well with the rest of the group.

-----


the vote on CTTE live versions


Rick Wakeman = 10

Patrick Moraz = 1

[bjlevine]

Pat plays his style on Rick's material just as Rick plays his own style on Tony's material (listen to Time and a Word live). My bigger gripe with Pat is that he can get a bit loose live, which works better in jazz than in Yes music.

Frankly, my biggest gripes with Oliver is that he tends to not put his own spin on the music. Hopefully he will more and more as he gets comfortable with the material. One of the reasons I love Yes live is that they are always changing things up.

[Roadkill]

is there any mileage in raking all this up after all this time ?

"Let it go, Bill, it was a long time ago."

"Fine, then quit talking to me about Jesus. Seeing as we're talking shelf-life here."

[the_buehlers2001]

Coming from a fellow Swiss (and therefore not quite objective), Relayer is still the stand-out Yes album to me, although I've been a fan of Wakey's since 1974's Journey. Relayer and Yes is to me what Animals is for Floyd: an epiphany, coming out of nowhere and not to be repeated again. GFTO would have been a different record with Patrick, if it had happend at all. GFTO's texture is very different from Relayer, despite the two absolutely smashing long tracks. Relayer goes Jazz, where GFTO goes 'classic'. But just to blow everyone's mind, can you imagine a Patrick'd Tormato? On the silent wings of freedom with a Relayer-like middle part?
Finally, there are a few short live recordings of a very early Awaken-part (high vibration) from the end of the Relayer tour (Philly and Reading) where you can get a glimpse of Moraz' playing.

[relayeire]

Ritual seemed to be his most consistent piece.

I have to agree. Maybe because I've mainly heard the studio version from Rick, but his (Rick's) version lacks energy and originality to me. Perhaps a symptom of his disdain for the TFTO project?

The Yesshows version of "Ritual" is fantastic. Moraz makes it his own.

Pat plays his style on Rick's material just as Rick plays his own style on Tony's material (listen to Time and a Word live). My bigger gripe with Pat is that he can get a bit loose live, which works better in jazz than in Yes music.

Frankly, my biggest gripes with Oliver is that he tends to not put his own spin on the music. Hopefully he will more and more as he gets comfortable with the material. One of the reasons I love Yes live is that they are always changing things up.

I think Rick took TAAW live and made it a better track than the original; much as I credit Moraz on "Ritual" above. The rest of the band must've wanted something better from TAAW, too, as they seem to be even performing it in a new key (major?) in the late-70s version.

Not crazy about Rick's interpretations of Kaye parts in general, though. Always plays All Good People and Perpetual Change on organ when there's a perfectly good piano right there.

I like Oliver sticking close to the original material. As (or if) he grows with the band, I'd like to see him take more risks. Curious to hear studio work from him with Yes.

[Roadkill]

It makes me very sad to read this story of how Moraz's career with Yes ended. I'd always wondered, after such a breakthrough album like Relayer, why he went. Now I know. As much as I admire Wakeman's playing, I don't think he's the be all and end all and would much rather the band carried on with Patrick. After all, he'd been responsible for putting Parallels, Wonderous Stories and Awaken together and I think, as fantastic as GFTO is, it would have been even better with Patrick Moraz still in the band.

To get rid of such a gifted player simply because there was an opportunity to get an ex-member back in again is really shameful.

[Meng]

To get rid of such a gifted player simply because there was an opportunity to get an ex-member back in again is really shameful.

Agreed. I'd have loved at least one Yes album with a properly "bedded-in" Moraz on the keys.

Anyone with any doubts about this should listen to the Refugee album.

[fovman]

There once was a man called Moraz
When he played it sounded like jazz.
He smoked on Relayer
A talented player
But a poodle for a head he has

[Meng]

There once was a man called Moraz
Who played to the QPR mass
It is no fable
That he tripped on a cable
And almost fell on his azz!

[fovman]

new one:

There once was a man named Moraz
Who played with mucho pizazz
He got screwed by the Moodies
And did his Yes duties
But all he got was a razz

[Roadkill]

I'm sure I've seen his name linked with Phil Collins, y'know. Then again, who hasn't Phil played with over the years?

[kirklott]

Ya Pat's talked about this before...... More Yes = Mess

I'm not all that sure about the money side of it... But it is what it is.. Seems he got Yes-ed :eeek:,

My understanding is the Trevor Horn got paid $10,000 for his time in Yes. Ah, not a lot for the guy who basically produced Drama, and fronted the band at - among other things - sold out shows at MSG.