how would you sub-divide the tracks?

[total mass retain]

The DJ version of TFTO arbitrarily divided the album into separate tracks for ease of use on radio play, but what I would like to ask is how would we divide up the songs and title the parts if requested to provide a broadcast version. Now I know this will be an anathema to most of us who would leave the work untouched, but it might have made the album a less daunting prospect for reluctant radio presenters in the 70s and perhaps led to fewer accusations of "pretentiousness" thrown around by lazy critics who couldn't be bothered to listen to all of the work. Besides, sub-dividing CTTE didn't do any harm, so here's my stab at it.

RSOG
0 - 4:44 Dawn of Light
4:44 - 8:49 This Moment
8:49 - 11:42 Starlight Movement
11:42 - 15:00 Rape the Forest
15:00 - 19:30 Through the Rhythm
19:30 - 22:20 First Sunset

REMEMBERING
0 - 7:43 The Awakening
7:43 - 14:40 Relayer
14:40 - 15:52 The Awakening (reprise)
15:52 - 17:39 The Topographic Ocean
17:39 - 20:38 Sunlight Riser

ANCIENT
0 - 4:40 Tribal past
4:40 - 8:25 The Sun God
8:25 - 12:30 Human Sacrifice
12:30 - 17:39 Leaves of Green
17:39 - 18:35 Remergence

RITUAL
0 - 4:02 Ceremony
4:02 - 11:10 Nous Sommes du Soleil
11:20 - 14:20 Dance of the Dusk
14:20 - 16:57 The Battle
16:57 - 21:37 Going Home?

I'm sure some of you can come up with better titles than that, and many would argue on the timings, so let's hear your opinion!!!

[Sharp on Attack]

I've no time to comment on the timings right now but I don't think Jon and Steve would have chosen Rape the Forest and Human Sacrifice as titles...

[total mass retain]

I've no time to comment on the timings right now but I don't think Jon and Steve would have chosen Rape the Forest and Human Sacrifice as titles...

You're right there, Rape the Forest is a lousy attempt at a title, but I quite like Human Sacrifice given the tribal and discordant nature of the music in this section!

[90125yes]

you would not subdivide the tracks

what a stupid suggestion

[YYY]

you would not subdivide the tracks

what a stupid suggestion

Ditto!

[Colors of Jade]

Maybe I'm wrong, but it's just my oppinion. I haven't heard much of topographic oceans, but no idea is stupid. I'm sorry if people get mad at me for posting my thoughts, but that's how I feel.

[YYY]

Maybe I'm wrong, but it's just my oppinion. I haven't heard much of topographic oceans, but no idea is stupid. I'm sorry if people get mad at me for posting my thoughts, but that's how I feel.


After reading your subdivisions I actually agree with you. Tales is a collections of musical ideas brilliantly edited together and I find some of your titles very interesting and descriptive.

[FishIntoWater]

I found useful to sub-divide every epic Yes song to learn to play it correctly, in the case of TFTO I need to divide it in many more pieces... but only to study it! ;)

Just my opinion to you total mass retain... don't let yourself be misguided by a DJ, their brains are trained to listen music on a 3 to 5 minutes boundaries basis... and the beauty of Yes music is not in the pieces but in the whole thing!... Moreover, Tales From Topographic Oceans is a whole masterpiece in four movements... likewise the classic symphonies.

[Colors of Jade]

I think it's awsome how you made song titles for each part of the album. Maybe this is my imagination, but the acoustic part is starship trooper, also could have a different title? Just a thought. Anyway, welcome to the site.

[90125yes]

After reading your subdivisions I actually agree with you. Tales is a collections of musical ideas brilliantly edited together and I find some of your titles very interesting and descriptive.

----

now come on whuch side of the fence are you ??

[CybrKhatru]

I have a copy of that "banded for airplay" TFTO.

Arbitrary is a good word to describe it. If memory serves, the bands come at very odd places.

Here's the thing though: the tracks are not edited/faded in any way. I'll have to listen where the supposed "breaks" are, to see if any of them actually make sense. I wonder who was responsible for coming up with the original ideas for this?

[AmyK]

Matt, You've got my curiosity going - I'm going to have to sit down with a stopwatch and see if these breaks make any sense. Maybe the Yesfans will have a chance to create new sub-acronyms for these sections, LOL.

[Bill Mocarsky]

I like the idea.........not for radio friendliness.......but more to break down the work.

[90125yes]

hmmm this thread needs some life in it .....


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[fovman]

In geometric order
An insulated border
In between the bright lights
And the far unlit unknown

[illusion]

I don't think it's a stupid idea at all.

They subdivided up many of their other songs; why not Tales?

[FishIntoWater]

I don't think it's a stupid idea at all.

They subdivided up many of their other songs; why not Tales?

I agree 100%, it's not a stupid idea at all... but... (I assume is my totally subjective point of view) for me -the song "Tales From Topographic Oceans" is already subdivided in "The Revealing Science of God (Dance of th Dawn)"; "The Remembering (High the Memory)"; "The Ancient (Giants Under the Sun)" and "Ritual (Nous Somes du Soleil)"- I may sound crazy but it's a possibility...

...the opposite would be...

... Tales is a collections of musical ideas brilliantly edited together...

We should ask the guys to know what they really wanted to do when tley did it. I don't know if there's an interview to one of them explaining this, maybe one of us at YesFans knows that.

Whatever the case, I don't see the point in make further subdivisions... I explain, the first time I listened to "Soon" was in the 9012 tour, it was a sweet piece with Jon's sweet voice, too short though, but I felt something was missing... not knowing what, but something... then, when I listened "Gates..." I knew that BIG something!... since then it makes perfect sense to me.

summarizing, there must be a reason why the guys didn't divide the tracks any further...
so, DJs, keep your hands off of one of my favourite masterpieces!!! :duel:

[The Ancient]

You're right, Yes usually subtitles epic works.
The reason they didn't do it this time is probably that Tales is not as structured as other Yes epics. It kind of floats all over the place. One of Wakeman's reasons for not being completely happy with the album.

I've learnt to like it as it is. I kind of like the anarchy of it all.

But the Idea of sub-dividing the track sounds fun and is a great way of studying the track. I'm going to give it a go. But it will take some time. Looking forward to the exercise. Just what a Yes fan needs while waiting for a new Yes album. Must hurry and do it in 6-7 years I guess :-)

[Sound_Chaser1989]

well, it would seem preposterous to sub-divide tracks that already seem subdivided. and TFTO was never meant for radio airplay because of the long track lengths. Raping of the Forests and Undiserved Sacrifices would sound better than just Rape the Forest and Human Sacrifice, i think.

[gathernear]

I would not sub-divide the tracks. Ever.

[90125yes]

I would not sub-divide the tracks. Ever.

----

agreed

[Sound_Chaser1989]

In my opinion, what started the whols sub-dividing of the tracks began with Close to The Edge, their previous album. The title song and the song And You & I had four parts that were sub-divided. So, the dj's all got together and decided to name parts of the songs in Tales based on what happened with CTTE. Could be true, have no idea though.

[denmac]

Subdivisions - conform or be cast out!

[kirklott]

The DJ version of TFTO arbitrarily divided the album into separate tracks for ease of use on radio play, but what I would like to ask is how would we divide up the songs and title the parts if requested to provide a broadcast version. Now I know this will be an anathema to most of us who would leave the work untouched, but it might have made the album a less daunting prospect for reluctant radio presenters in the 70s and perhaps led to fewer accusations of "pretentiousness" thrown around by lazy critics who couldn't be bothered to listen to all of the work. Besides, sub-dividing CTTE didn't do any harm, so here's my stab at it.

RSOG
0 - 4:44 Dawn of Light
4:44 - 8:49 This Moment
8:49 - 11:42 Starlight Movement
11:42 - 15:00 Rape the Forest
15:00 - 19:30 Through the Rhythm
19:30 - 22:20 First Sunset

REMEMBERING
0 - 7:43 The Awakening
7:43 - 14:40 Relayer
14:40 - 15:52 The Awakening (reprise)
15:52 - 17:39 The Topographic Ocean
17:39 - 20:38 Sunlight Riser

ANCIENT
0 - 4:40 Tribal past
4:40 - 8:25 The Sun God
8:25 - 12:30 Human Sacrifice
12:30 - 17:39 Leaves of Green
17:39 - 18:35 Remergence

RITUAL
0 - 4:02 Ceremony
4:02 - 11:10 Nous Sommes du Soleil
11:20 - 14:20 Dance of the Dusk
14:20 - 16:57 The Battle
16:57 - 21:37 Going Home?

I'm sure some of you can come up with better titles than that, and many would argue on the timings, so let's hear your opinion!!!

Truth be told, I've used Audacity software to make my own Topo excerpts, since I side with Rick and don't think Highly of the album.

I've got Dawn of Light, Starlight, Relayer: High the Memory, Leaves of Green, Ritual, and Nous Sommes du Soleil, parts 1 and 2.

[90125yes]

this thread is for trainspotters in old coats

why the need to do this ?? !!

[gathernear]

In my opinion, what started the whols sub-dividing of the tracks began with Close to The Edge, their previous album. The title song and the song And You & I had four parts that were sub-divided. So, the dj's all got together and decided to name parts of the songs in Tales based on what happened with CTTE. Could be true, have no idea though.

This post makes no sense at all.

[90125yes]

This post makes no sense at all.

----

agreed

:beerchugr:

[Michelle Johnston]

So why did they subdivide CTTE, Awaken, ABWH and That That is but not TFTO,Relayer and Mind Drive. Equally why did they not collect and present the 2nd side of BG into one piece and the three parts of the Africa Suite on the Ladder. The latter is easy, the record company did not want them to be projecting their reputation for long pieces it was seen as unfashionable.

The reason the first group was sectioned is because they emerged from the classic creative process where they weld genuine fragments together and turn them into a glorious complete piece with identifiable segments. The second group is much more complicated. At an artistic level Mind Drive feels like SK there are definite mood changes and segments but they do not amount to a section. That leaves you with TFTO and Relayer or more particular Gates. It is an interesting coincidence that these five pieces are the ones most criticised for losing their way and do not have clearly identifiable sections except those song segments Leaves are Green, Nous Sommes Du Soleil and Soon. In the end I conclude they don't have identifiable titles because they don't have really clearly identifiable sections with disciplined start stop points (Not sure if that is a fair critic of the Remembering). Its a whole different argument to say would the basic musical ideas have benefited from being presented in a more disciplined, structured way.