Coming Back to Topo

[Chudhole]

In the early 80's, I was all about Yes. And even some of their more "hard to swallow" material held appeal to me. I have to say in the 90's I kind of lost touch with this particular Yes album. It's not really the album's fault, I just moved on to other listening experiences.

Anyway, I've been listening to these four tracks, finding more and more little bits that I had forgotten about. I think it's too easy to say "I love the whole thing". I find I like the whole thing, but certain parts REALLY jump out. And it's occurred to me, that Topo and Relayer might be Steve Howe's best guitar writing and playing. Coming back to Yes has opened my eyes to just how much Steve Howe's playing has evolved. On the present tour I think he might be even still getting better.

Anyway, when listening to Topo I find myself focusing on Steve Howe's playing the most. I wanted to point out a few of my favorite little moments, and here perhaps what some other people's thoughts were...

The Ancient around 12:27 til the end. I'm not saying the first 12 minutes is filler. I just don't think it has the same breadthe of soundscape. Steve's accoustic guitar playing, Jon's melodic writing and performance are really nice. There's also a great piece at the beginning around the 3:15 Mark, with Rick and Jon having a nice little bit, tastefully accented by Steve and the band. I kind of find myself enjoying the "full band" moments of this track. When they veer into "King Crimson" instrumental playing I think is where Topo loses some of its focus. (No offense to KC of course!). On one hand I think Topo would have benefitted from a ruthless producer, who would have forced them to cut some of it. But to counterpoint myself, I simply don't know if they would have "got where they were going" if they chopped some stuff out.

The Revealing Science of God -I know "Ritual" seems to be the fan favorite, though I would argue that this track (Revealing) is the closest to being "Close to the Edge Part II. I also like that it seems more "killer" and less "filler". Steve and Rick have some REALLY nice moments on this. I really love the end, where it comes together and gets really big "What happened, to the song, we once knew so well"....Steve plays all these crazy little bits..it just sounds fanastic. Around the three minute mark it comes together fantastically. And the last five minutes or so are also really special.

The Remembering - Jon and Rick are a lot of fun at the beginning of this. I like how Steve is the "framework" and Rick has this really nice composed keyboard piece in the end. Some of this is a "little" fillary. But the song really pays off and becomes classic Yes at the 9 minute mark. Steve's guitar playing is fantastic. And Chris nicely holds it down by NOT over playing and just roots the accoustic guitar piece in place. Steve plays a really nice little guitar part at the end "Relayer", which of course this little bit of the song inspired the "Relayer" album. I have to say, this one, as I sit here listening to it, is pretty amazingly well crafted.

Ritual - The end of this, with Rick's piano playing, is some of Yes's best work. And Steve sounds like he is playing his Gibson over it. It's frankly really beautiful. And Chris just pops in and smoothes it out. Chris gets remembered (for good reason) for his melodic bombast, however, I always liked his tasty little smooth bits where he is not as noticiable. I've said it before and I will say it again: Chris Squire is Yes. He's the one guy that I don't think is replaceable. The only part of this track I could do without is the "battle drum sequence". It's just not my cup of tea. Its some of the same stuff that drags down "the ancient".



In Conclusion It's funny, sitting here listening to Topo and writing this. I think as a whole the work does stand up. I think I would perhaps have merged "The Ancient" with the other three. For me it's the weakest of the four. The whole thing is REALLY Steve Howe influenced. I could see where Rick would have gotten burned out at not having a lot of input on the writing side of things. They perhaps could have relased this as one single super AMAZING album. Or they might have been better off releasing this more akin to the format of Relayer and Close To The Edge. Who knows. I think Jon and Steve were fresh off of CTTE's success, and were confidant they could pull this off.

[Sharp on Attack]

I agree with most of what you said. Some of YES best moments are on this album as well as some of their "not so great" moments. I wish someone here with a good edit programme and the right skills would give us
1.The Ancient 15'
2.The Revealing 10/12'
3.The Remembering 10'
4. Ritual 20'
Come on let's someone do it !

[CybrKhatru]

The last four or so minutes of "The Remembering" are just gorgeous. I'd be loath to remove that! :D

[Chudhole]

The last four or so minutes of "The Remembering" are just gorgeous. I'd be loath to remove that! :D

I'm pretty much in agreement. The albums(s) as a whole are really inspired. I like the end of this one as well.

[Chudhole]

I agree with most of what you said. Some of YES best moments are on this album as well as some of their "not so great" moments. I wish someone here with a good edit programme and the right skills would give us
1.The Ancient 15'
2.The Revealing 10/12'
3.The Remembering 10'
4. Ritual 20'
Come on let's someone do it !

That might be an interesting project. I have audacity and could give it a spin. Though I would be more likely to cut The Ancient to about ten and the Revealing down to 16. I would cut about four minutes out of ritual as well.

I think the real trick would be to somehow cut it without using fades. I'm not sure if I'm that good.

[9012-jive]

This is THE album to discuss for me. CTTE is so much more solid, there is nothing to discuss, LOL.

I've heard criticism of Topo, the nicest of which is 'self-indulgent.' I will have to agree with that. This is a break from 'chartbusting' songs completely. But the product is so superior, self-indulgence seems a positive quality here.

I need to listen to the various clips timed here, so I'll post more later. I like this album VERY much. I think it's so cool this was based of written text. This really grabbed me when I first became a Yesfan. Rock music is rock music. Some of it is really good, and musically awesome. But when you start talking about songs as ART, you are talking about rare air.

This album is fine art, whereas stuff like Fragile, CTTE, 90125 are great, and somewhat better, but not the same. They used to say that the great concert pianist Rachmaninov used to be insipred by some oil paintings when he wrote his 'etudes-tableaux.' Jon describes the themes based upon Hindu writings: that turns a simple song into a story. A story of what the artist was thinking about at the time he wrote it. I like that.

[Meng]

Personally, I wouldn't want to cut a moment of it. I also loved the recent addition of that couple of minutes at the beginning of RSOG.

[relayeire]

The Revealing Science of God -I know "Ritual" seems to be the fan favorite, though I would argue that this track (Revealing) is the closest to being "Close to the Edge Part II. I also like that it seems more "killer" and less "filler". Steve and Rick have some REALLY nice moments on this. I really love the end, where it comes together and gets really big "What happened, to the song, we once knew so well"....Steve plays all these crazy little bits..it just sounds fanastic. Around the three minute mark it comes together fantastically. And the last five minutes or so are also really special.


the live version of Ritual on Yesshows (and even Tsongas) is great, but as far as studio material goes, RSOG is about the best song on TFTO... Ritual isn't nearly as powerful on the original LP...

[9012-jive]

yeah, what's all this talk of cutting it all about?? BAD idea. Extend it! That's my suggestion.

[gathernear]

In the early 80's, I was all about Yes. And even some of their more "hard to swallow" material held appeal to me. I have to say in the 90's I kind of lost touch with this particular Yes album. It's not really the album's fault, I just moved on to other listening experiences.

Anyway, I've been listening to these four tracks, finding more and more little bits that I had forgotten about. I think it's too easy to say "I love the whole thing". I find I like the whole thing, but certain parts REALLY jump out. And it's occurred to me, that Topo and Relayer might be Steve Howe's best guitar writing and playing. Coming back to Yes has opened my eyes to just how much Steve Howe's playing has evolved. On the present tour I think he might be even still getting better.

Anyway, when listening to Topo I find myself focusing on Steve Howe's playing the most. I wanted to point out a few of my favorite little moments, and here perhaps what some other people's thoughts were...

The Ancient around 12:27 til the end. I'm not saying the first 12 minutes is filler. I just don't think it has the same breadthe of soundscape. Steve's accoustic guitar playing, Jon's melodic writing and performance are really nice. There's also a great piece at the beginning around the 3:15 Mark, with Rick and Jon having a nice little bit, tastefully accented by Steve and the band. I kind of find myself enjoying the "full band" moments of this track. When they veer into "King Crimson" instrumental playing I think is where Topo loses some of its focus. (No offense to KC of course!). On one hand I think Topo would have benefitted from a ruthless producer, who would have forced them to cut some of it. But to counterpoint myself, I simply don't know if they would have "got where they were going" if they chopped some stuff out.

The Revealing Science of God -I know "Ritual" seems to be the fan favorite, though I would argue that this track (Revealing) is the closest to being "Close to the Edge Part II. I also like that it seems more "killer" and less "filler". Steve and Rick have some REALLY nice moments on this. I really love the end, where it comes together and gets really big "What happened, to the song, we once knew so well"....Steve plays all these crazy little bits..it just sounds fanastic. Around the three minute mark it comes together fantastically. And the last five minutes or so are also really special.

The Remembering - Jon and Rick are a lot of fun at the beginning of this. I like how Steve is the "framework" and Rick has this really nice composed keyboard piece in the end. Some of this is a "little" fillary. But the song really pays off and becomes classic Yes at the 9 minute mark. Steve's guitar playing is fantastic. And Chris nicely holds it down by NOT over playing and just roots the accoustic guitar piece in place. Steve plays a really nice little guitar part at the end "Relayer", which of course this little bit of the song inspired the "Relayer" album. I have to say, this one, as I sit here listening to it, is pretty amazingly well crafted.

Ritual - The end of this, with Rick's piano playing, is some of Yes's best work. And Steve sounds like he is playing his Gibson over it. It's frankly really beautiful. And Chris just pops in and smoothes it out. Chris gets remembered (for good reason) for his melodic bombast, however, I always liked his tasty little smooth bits where he is not as noticiable. I've said it before and I will say it again: Chris Squire is Yes. He's the one guy that I don't think is replaceable. The only part of this track I could do without is the "battle drum sequence". It's just not my cup of tea. Its some of the same stuff that drags down "the ancient".



In Conclusion It's funny, sitting here listening to Topo and writing this. I think as a whole the work does stand up. I think I would perhaps have merged "The Ancient" with the other three. For me it's the weakest of the four. The whole thing is REALLY Steve Howe influenced. I could see where Rick would have gotten burned out at not having a lot of input on the writing side of things. They perhaps could have relased this as one single super AMAZING album. Or they might have been better off releasing this more akin to the format of Relayer and Close To The Edge. Who knows. I think Jon and Steve were fresh off of CTTE's success, and were confidant they could pull this off.

Very nice post, Chudhole. I really like your take on the album. Tales is a major work, and I love getting lost in headphone drift, really letting it soak in.

[relayeire]

yeah, what's all this talk of cutting it all about?? BAD idea. Extend it! That's my suggestion.

Rhino did that! restored the original intro to RSOG, though this first appeared on the box set...

[AmyK]

yeah, what's all this talk of cutting it all about?? BAD idea. Extend it! That's my suggestion.

A three album Tales would have been quite a work :) Jon Anderson has suggested that he wanted to do a Yes musical work (concert) lasting several days at one point (not specifically Tales but a new work).

Why would anyone want to cut up Tales? CD's are cheap, but music of quality of the "filler" in Tales is rare these days. What is regarded as filler is parts of a whole and is necessary to the feel of the entire piece. For example, the building, deceptive cadences and fluorishes in classical music are necessary parts of the composition. I regard TOTC as a "Rock Symphony" of sorts, not a collection of songs.

[Albedo]

There are some of the most brilliant moments of Yes music in Tales. It seems to me that on the studio version, the momentum of RSOG and Remembering are not well sustained. Someone on this site once compared it to the ocean tides coming in and out. Maybe it was intentional but I find it a bit hard to get into, with all these great bits and I am just waiting to get to the next one. I'm not sure why, but on live weeds I've heard this seems much less evident even though they are playing essentially the same thing. I like the live shows better.

[Chudhole]

I agree with most of what you said. Some of YES best moments are on this album as well as some of their "not so great" moments. I wish someone here with a good edit programme and the right skills would give us
1.The Ancient 15'
2.The Revealing 10/12'
3.The Remembering 10'
4. Ritual 20'
Come on let's someone do it !

Ok so I have to much time on my hands. This took about two hours. I was able to cut "The Ancient" to a lean and mean 10:40. And I kept the entire accoustic ending intact. I'm pretty proud of it. There's only one edit that I think sounds "like an edit". The rest are pretty seamless.

I'm sure Steve Howe would NOT approve. So if he reads these forums please accept my apologies up front. Its all in fun!

I will gladly share it with anyone if they can tell me HOW to post it somewhere for download.

[Chudhole]

the live version of Ritual on Yesshows (and even Tsongas) is great, but as far as studio material goes, RSOG is about the best song on TFTO... Ritual isn't nearly as powerful on the original LP...

I couldn't agree more. The live version of Ritual is fantastic. I'm not sure if I've heard a live version of Revealing Science. As far as TFTO is concerned I've listened to this track probably the most. In the 80's I would "headphone out" to this one.

I'm kind of personally trying to spend more time with the other three songs.

[Chudhole]

This is THE album to discuss for me. CTTE is so much more solid, there is nothing to discuss, LOL.

I've heard criticism of Topo, the nicest of which is 'self-indulgent.' I will have to agree with that. This is a break from 'chartbusting' songs completely. But the product is so superior, self-indulgence seems a positive quality here.

I need to listen to the various clips timed here, so I'll post more later. I like this album VERY much. I think it's so cool this was based of written text. This really grabbed me when I first became a Yesfan. Rock music is rock music. Some of it is really good, and musically awesome. But when you start talking about songs as ART, you are talking about rare air.

This album is fine art, whereas stuff like Fragile, CTTE, 90125 are great, and somewhat better, but not the same. They used to say that the great concert pianist Rachmaninov used to be insipred by some oil paintings when he wrote his 'etudes-tableaux.' Jon describes the themes based upon Hindu writings: that turns a simple song into a story. A story of what the artist was thinking about at the time he wrote it. I like that.

I'm a huge fan of Topo. It's got the same ambition as Relayer and CTTE, yet really they do push themselves with the writing. I think Jon and Steve should be proud of this record. Where it comes together for me is how singable the songs are. (Which is some of the more charming moments of CTTE).

Those lyrics at the end "Getting over overhanging trees" and "getting over wars we do not need" always struck me as beautiful, even if they are both silly and profound. There also seems to be a bit of Tolkien influence with the forest thing. (The environmental angle of LOTR was kinda dropped from the recent movies, but thats a different topic altogether).

[Chudhole]

A three album Tales would have been quite a work :) Jon Anderson has suggested that he wanted to do a Yes musical work (concert) lasting several days at one point (not specifically Tales but a new work).

Why would anyone want to cut up Tales? CD's are cheap, but music of quality of the "filler" in Tales is rare these days. What is regarded as filler is parts of a whole and is necessary to the feel of the entire piece. For example, the building, deceptive cadences and fluorishes in classical music are necessary parts of the composition. I regard TOTC as a "Rock Symphony" of sorts, not a collection of songs.

I don't disagree with you (and i noted as such in my original post). The musical path is a "journey" in itself. However, I am gifted with technology that allows me to perhaps take out some of the lest intrinsic parts. I've been listening to this on vinyl for over 20 years and I have come to realize in my heart of heats that I grew impatient with certain passages, waiting for the "good bits".

I know, I know, some would argue (myself included) that to remove parts is messing with the original intentions of the artist/creator. Though in the case of Topo, the band members themselves have stated that its intentions were noble, but perhaps they over did it certain parts. You could also argue that the sweet is sweeter for the contrast of the sour.

In my old age I have less patience for the sour!

[yesyadda]

Tales sails! :thumbs:

If I was allowed only one Yes album it would be Tales.

I devour every second of each song. There, I said it. :D

The only reason I don't listen to it often is that it leaves me emotionally drained.

[islandsofarabia]

To me, Tales from Topographic Oceans is a masterpiece, kind of like...

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/3295/monalisa1vg2.jpg

[90125yes]

a remix would be great

all the instruments are out of balance

it would sound much better if the classic lineup recorded the music again

you only have to look at the live stuff on keys to see the potential

[90125yes]

... if i was only allowed one yes album it would be CTTE not Tales - sorry

[Chudhole]

... if i was only allowed one yes album it would be CTTE not Tales - sorry


That's a tough one. I really don't know which one I would pick. There are days when each one seems extra special. For instance I am kinda stuck on topo at the moment. But there are other days when I get more into Tormato or Going For the One. I think I could sum it up by saying I am a fan of everything from The Yes Album to Drama. For me that is the critical series.