Mind Drive?

[blitzjg]

Is this possibly the most under-rated/appreciated song by Yes? Let alone the fact that it is one of their few 18+ minute masterpieces I would think it would get tremendous revere.

Thoughts?

The all the songs on Keys 2 have great aspects to them of course.

[Steve Mahoney]

It is an absolute Juggernaut of Yes song.
I just love Mind Drive.

[HOTsunrise]

I think Mind Drive is a great YES "epic".

I'll never understand why the studio songs from Keys 1 & 2 weren't originally issued together as a new album. "Keystudio" was a little late, most YES fans already owned the songs by then. (it did have a cool cover though)

[90125yes]

min drive is fantastic is should be played in full on the next tour

[Mostly Harmless]

It's definitely an underrated song. I like it alot, and I thought what Rick did with the keyboard solo on Tsongas was brilliant.

[CybrKhatru]

I thought it improved in a live setting.

[TOBYSGRAPHICGOKART]

Mind Drive was quite simply the best Yessong they'd done in over a decade and a half.A real throw-back to the glory days.

[MINDRIVE]

Do I really have to make a statement?:beerchugr:
:appl[1]:

[drmrDave]

As for the "Keys" stuff, I actually LOVE "That,That Is". How did Heaven begin?, indeed.

[Steve Mahoney]

As for the "Keys" stuff, I actually LOVE "That,That Is". How did Heaven begin?, indeed.

That That Is , is a stunner also.

[tommyhawk]

It's hard to figure out the marketing decisions that went into the KTA releases.

Mind Drive is a great epic and stands up very well with anything they've done.

[TOBYSGRAPHICGOKART]

That That Is , is a stunner also.

Musically,yes.
A real shame about those lyrics though!

Overall,KTA was a great return to form.
Just what you'd expect of course from the classic line-up.

[maninthemoon]

Mind drive is quickly becoming a new favorite of mine. I only have had it for a few months having taken a Yes hiatus since the Union tour. For me, it's definitely a classic epic.

[crotale2112]

I love mind drive. Steve howe is an animal on that song and rick's keys are amazing in that funky zone of the tune. I love it almost as much as the moog solo on reveling science.

A good time in yes history if you are a fan of the epics like I am.

Crotale sending love...

Smile... think of alan white and his roasted peanuts on the tormoto tour.

[crotale2112]

Do I really have to make a statement?:beerchugr:
:appl[1]:
Well.... yes you do you driving mind you.:beerchugr: :beerchugr: :beerchugr:

[90125yes]

the orgins of mindrive are probably in the shortlived YYZ project

[Sharp on Attack]

Mind Drive WAS a riff XYZ tried out back then. I've heard an instrumental version. It was just the intro riff. I like it but it's a bit too long and repetitive. Could have been a great 12 minute song.

[samse]

Total overblown, cut and pasted drivel. All of that Keystudio stuff is just terrible. It's all mostly been forgotten, and deservedly so.

[Meng]

I love it. I wasn't aware of the XYZ connection - it always reminded me of the Bruford/White duet on the Union tour.

[maninthemoon]

Total overblown, cut and pasted drivel. All of that Keystudio stuff is just terrible. It's all mostly been forgotten, and deservedly so.

A bit harsh, no?

[samse]

A bit harsh, no?

I don't think so. .I don't think much of any "newer" YES material (from 1988 onwards). just my opinion.......

[The Baron]

I have to admit, I've been listening to the studio stuff from both Keys I and Keys II lately and really enjoy it. I really love the song Footprints. I think the studio stuff from the Keys disks is very underrated.

[BEE]

Total overblown, cut and pasted drivel. All of that Keystudio stuff is just terrible. It's all mostly been forgotten, and deservedly so.

Have you totally lost your Mind Drive samse? ;)

I had this conversation with Scottie just a few hours ago!
It is in my Top Ten YesFavs along with Be The One!
My wish is to hear MD and BTO in there glourious entirety!
Yes and all the rest of Keys also.....and That,That is all folks....Good Night!

[RickyG]

Total overblown, cut and pasted drivel. All of that Keystudio stuff is just terrible. It's all mostly been forgotten, and deservedly so.

Hmmm... forgotten?
Forgotten by who?
You can speak for yourself, maybe you've mostly forgotten it.

Yeah, a bit harsh is an understatement.
You certainly don't have to like it and can say so, but to say "deservedly so" is just uncalled for. Why would they deserve to have such work forgotten? If you have any awareness of music, and I am sure you do, you will be able to observe that quite a bit of effort went into creating the music on those albums. Certainly they weren't "selling out" and aiming for the pop hits! They could only have been trying to create some good YES music that meant something to them.

Yes, there is a fair amount of cut and paste and at times it suffers from that. The worst offender is "Bring Me To The Power".... unfortunate because to my ear it contains one of the best YES passages in ages. In the middle when they slow it down for a moment and go acoustic, and then the drums kick back in but it's the same nylon string guitar, the drums sound very natural, the mix is very open and spacious, multiple vocal, nice understated Rick strings. Truly a beautiful high ranking minute and a half or two of Yes-ish-ism-ness. And then they make that horrid arrangement decision to jump to what comes next... it's almost comical, Spinal Tapish satirical... yet nauseating (harsh?).....harsh to my ear in it's abrupt change of direction, and abrupt downgrade in depth, mood and tonal quality.... how they could have ever agreed that was a good musical decision is unfathomable to me!

But overall alot of excellent YES music on both Keys.
Steve's layered guitar intro to "That That Is" is also a magic moment... holds up with any classic YES.

[Billy Sherwood HQ]

Total overblown, cut and pasted drivel. All of that Keystudio stuff is just terrible. It's all mostly been forgotten, and deservedly so.

I recorded it, without edits, as one continuous flow... I can assure you it was not a "cut and paste" job http://www.yesfans.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Silent_wings]

I thought it improved in a live setting.
What Matt said

It was absolutly killer live

[90125yes]

Originally Posted by samse http://www.yesfans.com/bluefusion/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.yesfans.com/showthread.php?p=1640934#post1640934)
Total overblown, cut and pasted drivel. All of that Keystudio stuff is just terrible. It's all mostly been forgotten, and deservedly so

_________________

what a terrible comment

the music is fantastic and billy sherwood did a great job

[90125yes]

.so now that Sames's comment has been given the boot

____

keys studio tracks are probably the best classic YES material since GFTO

i love every track

the production is fantastic

i hope in the future that the classic YES line up perform more of it live ( or indeed the present one )

[booj]

:appl[1]: I don't think so. .I don't think much of any "newer" YES material (from 1988 onwards). just my opinion.......

[Whitefish]

I recorded it, without edits, as one continuous flow... I can assure you it was not a "cut and paste" job http://www.yesfans.com/images/icons/icon10.gif


I love all the songs on Keys To Ascension. You did a great job Billy!:beerchugr:

[Sharp on Attack]

RickyG I agree with you. that middle part in Bring Me To the Power is the best musical moment in the whole Keys project. I too wish they had managed to sustain and expand that moment. Though I love That That Is and part of MindDrive, I think that precise minute is the most magical point of Keys.

[Melissa]

Mind Drive definitely doesn't get the attention it deserves as a Yes epic. It's an incredible piece of music!

[Roadkill]

Mmm, I think we should be allowed to say we don't like the song with the same strength of delivery displayed by those who do like the song, no?

That said, I've just been listening to a recording of the song from a performance in 2004 (where they play a faultless South Side Of The Sky in the middle) and it reminded me of some moments on Tales From Topographic Oceans insofar as much of I couldn't connect with and then there would come a beautiful, uncluttered section with just Steve and Jon. So, that's what I think of Mind Drive: a couple of minutes of real beauty amidst the dross. It just seems to me an overt attempt to return to a more traditional way of doing things but without the inspiration that gave us such wonderful songs as Awaken, And You And I and Heart Of The Sunrise.

[erik_1099]

If making a Yes epic was easy, there would be more of them!

the KTA material was "key" to re-igniting my interest in what modern Yes was up to in the mid to later 90's. I discovered yes in the later 80's with the rabin material and then worked backward. But somehow I lost interest in what they were actually up to. KTA really got me excited again and I was glad to them live touring for OYE.

[rmig68]

I think Mind Drive is a great YES "epic".

I'll never understand why the studio songs from Keys 1 & 2 weren't originally issued together as a new album. "Keystudio" was a little late, most YES fans already owned the songs by then. (it did have a cool cover though)

Yeah, that was another mix up for Yes along the way. Why split, what would have been a decent album into two, with and again, more live stuff.

Is this just a question of someone over-thinking? One album with studio and another seperate album of SLO shows would seem to have been better. And it's not a hindsight thing either, I know, a bunch of people thought the same thing at the time.

By the way, Mind Drive "could've been a contendah," except for that there is a great deal of plodding in the middle of it. Let's go boys and tighten that up a bit. They go to the bridge part too much in my opinion, although it had a shot at greatness coming down the stretch. It's like, "C'mon guys, today."

[Orbert]

I love "Mind Drive". I can see why some of the Keys material might be called "cut and paste", as there are some sections that seem to repeat a few more times than necessary, but when you repeat things for emphasis, which I'm assuming the intention was, there's a fine line between successfully pushing it to the limit, and overdoing it. "Mind Drive" works for me, while "Footprints" (for example) does not.

To be honest, "That, That Is" doesn't work for me nearly as well. It's interesting that a lot of people seem to favor this one over "Mind Drive", which totally grabs me. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks.

[rmig68]

RickyG I agree with you. that middle part in Bring Me To the Power is the best musical moment in the whole Keys project. I too wish they had managed to sustain and expand that moment. Though I love That That Is and part of MindDrive, I think that precise minute is the most magical point of Keys.

I've written before that I thought "Bring Me to the Power" was the best piece of the "Keys" era. Sure, like a lot of later Yes stuff, it has a moment or so where you think, "OK, we didn't really need that..." but, overall, I love that song.

...Actually, a little edit here. I like "That, That Is" more, although I like a lot of BMTTP too.

[CybrKhatru]

I once did an edit of Mind Drive that I really liked....took the song down to about 12 minutes. I can't find it now! :crybby:

[rmig68]

And then they make that horrid arrangement decision to jump to what comes next... it's almost comical, Spinal Tapish satirical... yet nauseating (harsh?).....harsh to my ear in it's abrupt change of direction, and abrupt downgrade in depth, mood and tonal quality.... how they could have ever agreed that was a good musical decision is unfathomable to me!



Just when I think I'm being too critical, RickyG shows us that even the die-hards have uncomfortable Yes moments.

LMAO

Let's repeat the mantra. "We love Yes, but sometimes we describe things we don't. We love Yes, but sometimes we describe things we don't. We love Yes, but..."


...and let it out. Then let's take it up and inhale....and again, "We love Yes,...."

...exercise mat and gym bag optional :xolicon42:

[CybrKhatru]

You certainly don't have to like it and can say so, but to say "deservedly so" is just uncalled for. Why would they deserve to have such work forgotten? If you have any awareness of music, and I am sure you do, you will be able to observe that quite a bit of effort went into creating the music on those albums. Certainly they weren't "selling out" and aiming for the pop hits! They could only have been trying to create some good YES music that meant something to them.

Playing devil's advocate here (and please don't take this the wrong way)...

Couldn't the same thing be said for Open Your Eyes and The Ladder? I don't think that music deserves to be forgotten either.

I like the Keystudio music, but admittedly, a lot of it feels contrived to me, like the band said "We need to write some epics, and some longer songs." Some of it (to my ears) sounds decidedly like 1974 dressed up in 1997 technology.

Whereas the following two albums don't sound like they're anything but themselves...to my ears anyway. It doesn't sound like Yes is necessarily trying to "sound like Yes" on these albums, and maybe that's why I dig them.

I'm not overly fond of most of the Keys tracks, but, like you, I don't think they should be forgotten.

[Roadkill]

I agree. An obvious reference point for me is Genesis. Post-1977, the long songs became fewer but when they did stretch out the results were just as moving as some of their finest songs from the past and, more importantly, the efforts never sounded contrived. For example, Driving The Last Spike has a great feel to it: stripped down and dynamic; Home By The Sea also never outstays its welcome sounding both progressive and modern.

That said, I don't think that Yes's best years were behind them (although playing to ever diminishing crowds and enjoying less than stellar record sales did mean they relied heavily on their back catalogue when they went out on the road) and I think The Ladder in particular is a strong piece of work.

[bjlevine]

My take on the Keys tracks was always Yes getting back to being Yes. That, That Is always leaves me amazed, and the All In All part just magical. I like the way Mind Drive alternates between the driving part and the simple acoustic part that builds back up. Its what I love about Yes.

[kirklott]

I like the Keystudio music, but admittedly, a lot of it feels contrived to me, like the band said "We need to write some epics, and some longer songs." Some of it (to my ears) sounds decidedly like 1974 dressed up in 1997 technology.

I believe this is completely incorrect.

It is my impression that, for a brief fleeting moment, Yes made exactly the music it wanted to for the first time since Relayer. No capitulation to the music industry.

Sadly, management and the record company freaked, buried the Keys tracks with redundant live material, Rick bailed, and no wonder that few fans noticed.

Yes originally wanted to release the songs as a studio album - called "Know." And had that happened, Rick would have stayed, they would have toured, and we all could have enjoyed a golden era of Yes.

[soulshiner]

I recorded it, without edits, as one continuous flow... I can assure you it was not a "cut and paste" job http://www.yesfans.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Well, I think that conclusively puts that accusation out to pasture.

I agree with others who believe it was a return to the halcyon days of Yes and an overdue break from the pop stylings that had infiltrated the band during the Rabin era.

[90125yes]

Total overblown, cut and pasted drivel. All of that Keystudio stuff is just terrible. It's all mostly been forgotten, and deservedly so.

----


what planet are you on ?

[90125yes]

:<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Billy Sherwood HQ http://www.yesfans.com/bluefusion/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.yesfans.com/showthread.php?p=1650465#post1650465)
I recorded it, without edits, as one continuous flow... I can assure you it was not a "cut and paste" job http://www.yesfans.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

______


what a fantastic job billy sherwood did on the album

great stuff billy
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[chris21125150]

I love Mind Drive. I was also a late discoverer of the song, having dismissed the studio tracks on the Keys albums for years as 'typical new yes', which I used to have a bias against. But I so love Mind Drive especially, it's like a modern day 'classic YES' song. Watch me and Brad Gent perform excerpts from it at this link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNJwJKIIgbc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNJwJKIIgbc)

[CybrKhatru]

I believe this is completely incorrect.

It is my impression that, for a brief fleeting moment, Yes made exactly the music it wanted to for the first time since Relayer. No capitulation to the music industry.

Maybe it is incorrect. Maybe the band was making the music it wanted to make. Maybe the band was making the music it assumed its diehard 70s fans would want.

For whatever the reason, the majority of it did not click with me. Although it was very well-recorded and well-produced.. :D

[kirklott]

I think Mind Drive is a great YES "epic".

I'll never understand why the studio songs from Keys 1 & 2 weren't originally issued together as a new album. "Keystudio" was a little late, most YES fans already owned the songs by then. (it did have a cool cover though)

When the classic line up reunited in 1995, it wanted to release a studio album. The working title was "Know" (as in Yes Know).

Sadly, the recorded company dictated otherwise, which among other things is one reason why Wakey quit.

[Gemini]

It's definitely an underrated song. I like it alot, and I thought what Rick did with the keyboard solo on Tsongas was brilliant.
Isn't that the tour where they broke up Mind Drive with other pieces played in between?

[90125yes]

all the studio tracks on keys 1 & 2 are great

i prefer this music to the rabin era

classic yes any day

[TOBYSGRAPHICGOKART]

all the studio tracks on keys 1 & 2 are great

i prefer this music to the rabin era

classic yes any day
:appl[1]::appl[1]::appl[1]:

[Roadkill]

When the classic line up reunited in 1995, it wanted to release a studio album. The working title was "Know" (as in Yes Know).

Sadly, the recorded company dictated otherwise, which among other things is one reason why Wakey quit.

See, it's comments like this that really get my goat. The idea that a band has to cow-tow to the dictates of record company executives. Now, I know it might sound naive for me to get riled by this, but Genesis never had to answer to record company execs, neither did Floyd, or Crimson (well, as far as I know), so why Yes?

[kirklott]

See, it's comments like this that really get my goat. The idea that a band has to cow-tow to the dictates of record company executives. Now, I know it might sound naive for me to get riled by this, but Genesis never had to answer to record company execs, neither did Floyd, or Crimson (well, as far as I know), so why Yes?

This isn't comment, this is fact. Obviously you don't know your Yes history. This chapter has been covered ad infinitum in all sorts of sources.

But, to clue you in: the reunited Yes, with John Brewer as manager, in 1995 foolishly rejected an advance of roughly $700,000 from Atlantic.

The president of unknown label CMC International was a Yes fan, and wanted to hang with the band. Yes wanted to do a studio album, CMC wanted greatest hits live, so Keys was a compromise. CMC gave Yes roughly the same amount of money

You see, if you own a business like CMC, you have the power to say "this is our deal, take it or leave it."

I chuckle heartily at your comment that Genesis, Floyd and Crimson didn't bend to record company dictates; all 3 got much more commercial during the 80s.

As for Yes, Anderson has said record company pressure is why he left Yes in '80. And have you ever paid attention to the lyrics from the ABWH song "Themes"? And Ahmet Ertegun very clearly told Squire during the Cinema sessions that it was Squire's responsiblity to come up a hit single.

Another prime example is ELP's final album, "In the Hot Seat." Victory's Phil Carson (a former Yes champion) gave ELP a very specific list of do's and don'ts: no long tracks, no instrumentals, no Greg Lake acoustic solos, no intrepretations of classical music, etc.

So yeah, if you have the money, you call the shots. Sad but true. Now you're informed.