Banks: unfair treatment or sourpuss?

[mageestout]

I really enjoy the first 2 LP's from YES and respect Bank's guitar work. I even own THE TWO SIDES OF PETER BANKS which I find to be an enjoyable LP too. However, after watching the new YES: Classic Artists DVD it seems to me that Banks is a grumpy old man (not the way Rick is- ha ha). Everything he says, even positive, seems to have a tinge of anger or resentment. He seems to be full of "backhanded compliments". Does anyone else see this?

[maninthemoon]

I haven't seen the dvd, I'll have to check it out. I also love the first two albums.

Bruford comes off with an attitude imo on yesyears. He seems to yake shot after shot at the group and the music. Still, I love his contribution.

[mageestout]

Bruford comes off with an attitude imo on yesyears. He seems to yake shot after shot at the group and the music. Still, I love his contribution.

I agree with you on both of those items. I do love on YESYEARS when he talks about Robert Fripp and adds the "bless his little heart" comment then gives an odd grin.

Speaking of YESYEARS, I think Rick comes off the best. He seemed to be, and usually always is, in a nice place. He was so positive about the UNION tour and not threatened by it. He seemed to see it as a positive experience (unlike some of the other lads).

[fovman]

The once was a man named Banks
Who never got credit nor thanks
The Yesmen agreed
He had to be freed
Compared to Steve Howe he wanks

[Ajay]

I think Peter Banks is a fine musician and was fantastic on the first 2 albums. He does seem very bitter about Yes though. Have you read his liner notes in the 'Something's Coming' collection. He makes negative comments about every member of the band, including Steve Howe. It's a shame. His departure from the group seemed to be farm from amicable and he was never credited for any of his work in the group. I get the impression he is maybe a bit jealous that he doesn't get the recognition he feels he deserves? He was great in 68-70 though.

[kmcpro615]

Everything he says, even positive, seems to have a tinge of anger or resentment. He seems to be full of "backhanded compliments". Does anyone else see this?

Yeah, but it's understandable. His departure wasn't voluntary, and he lost out on a small fortune because of it. I might have a tough time being philosophical about it myself at times.......

Forget Pete Banks.....Can you imagine how Pete Best must have felt and feels to this day? Yeesh and frickin A !!!!

KMCc:)

www.myspace.com/kurtmichaels1

[Imperatrix]

The once was a man named Banks
Who never got credit nor thanks
The Yesmen agreed
He had to be freed
Compared to Steve Howe he wanks

There was a guitarist named Banks
Who never got credit or thanks.
The Yesmen agreed
He had to be freed,
'Cause compared to Steve Howe, he wanks.

[Imperatrix]

There once was a drummer named Bill,
Who played with finesse and great skill;
One day, full of ire,
He cold-cocked Chris Squire
For being an insuff'rable pill.

[TZ_Keyz]

I think Peter Banks is a fine musician and was fantastic on the first 2 albums.

I thought he was INCREDIBLE with "Flash." TZ

[relayeire]

I really enjoy the first 2 LP's from YES and respect Bank's guitar work. I even own THE TWO SIDES OF PETER BANKS which I find to be an enjoyable LP too. However, after watching the new YES: Classic Artists DVD it seems to me that Banks is a grumpy old man (not the way Rick is- ha ha). Everything he says, even positive, seems to have a tinge of anger or resentment. He seems to be full of "backhanded compliments". Does anyone else see this?

I noticed this about him in the In Their Own Words book... the same goes for Horn and Offord... time seems to have softened the other two...

[luckeydoug1]

I own a copy of just about every project that Peter has been involved with since Yes, including a strange trio entitled Empire Mark I, II and III as well as a recent Harmony in Diversity. My favorites include Reduction (Fade to Blue is awesome) and Instinct. I truely love his work with early Yes and do, indeed, find him to be one of the two best guitar players to ever perform with YES, (along with Trevor Rabin).

I am thinking I would be grumpy, too, given the facts surrounding his original departure from YES, not to mention how he was excluded from the Union tour, literally minutes before one of the concerts.

Unfair treatment would be my observation.

[illusion]

They got rid of him for someone better. That's life. He should live with it!

[Jonah]

I have always preferred Pete's solo output to Steve Howe's. I think it's much more imaginative. And, if they ever do any more shows, I would recommend Harmony in Diversity - real edge of the seat stuff.

[Full Tilt Boogie]

I really enjoy the first 2 LP's from YES and respect Bank's guitar work. I even own THE TWO SIDES OF PETER BANKS which I find to be an enjoyable LP too. However, after watching the new YES: Classic Artists DVD it seems to me that Banks is a grumpy old man (not the way Rick is- ha ha). Everything he says, even positive, seems to have a tinge of anger or resentment. He seems to be full of "backhanded compliments". Does anyone else see this?

It's what they call 'damned by faint praise', and you're right. I got the same impression when watching it.

That said, along with EVERY OTHER former member of Yes, I'd like to see them take some part in the coming '40th Anniversary Tour' celebrations. When ever and if that might happen.

[mageestout]

There once was a drummer named Bill,
Who played with finesse and great skill;
One day, full of ire,
He cold-cocked Chris Squire
For being an insuff'rable pill.

Love the limeRICKs

Here's one I recently tossed off in the Carribean

Tales made Wakeman want to choke
So for keys YES needed a new bloke
Relayer featured Pat
But nothing after that
Because no one understood when he spoke

[Yesguitarman]

Band politics aside, I always loved Peter Banks guitar play. If you listen closely, he used some very similar techniques to Steve Howe, particularly in the use of octaves. Of course, Peter didn't incorporate classical or finger styles into his play, but at the same time, he was a better straight ahead rock guitarist. His play on the first two FLASH albums contains some of my favorite guitar work (Chuildren Of The Universe and Small Beginnings). I would love to see Peter gather up FLASH and take it on tour.

[Olorin]

I think Banks is a very talented guitarist, at least based on his work on the first two Yes albums. For whatever reason, he got fired by them, and replaced with Howe, and the rest is history. I could certainly understand how he could be bitter.

HOWEVER, that happened almost 40 freakin' years ago! He just needs to let go of it and forget about Yes. There's a saying that the best revenge is a life lived well, and it's pretty hard to demonstrate to your (perceived) antagonists (or anyone else) that you are living your life well, if you're an unending fount of snarky comments.

[maninthemoon]

I agree with you on both of those items. I do love on YESYEARS when he talks about Robert Fripp and adds the "bless his little heart" comment then gives an odd grin.

Speaking of YESYEARS, I think Rick comes off the best. He seemed to be, and usually always is, in a nice place. He was so positive about the UNION tour and not threatened by it. He seemed to see it as a positive experience (unlike some of the other lads).

I agree with you there as well. Rick came off as the one who most loves what Yes is all about. And it was surprising to me.

[TheMiz]

His play on the first two FLASH albums contains some of my favorite guitar work (Chuildren Of The Universe and Small Beginnings). I would love to see Peter gather up FLASH and take it on tour.


This has been talked about over and over, and there always seems to be some bump in the road to reforming FLASH, It was so very close a couple years ago all was in place but the bass player said he wanted to play guitar in Flash and I don't think that helped. What did he want Banks to play? You would think some of them would have grown up by now!



Needless to say , timing is everything, all 3 of the Flash CD's as well as the
Two Sides Of Peter Banks were released in Japan on May 23rd. ( as a box set) and I think as single CD;s on June 3rd.


i bought a set off eBay and can say they are fantastic sounding, I don't now what it is with some of the cd's that come out of Japan they almost always sound better then what is out here in the states.

From what we are hearing there is some interest in Flash and that could be enough to get them to at least seriously sit down and talk again.

[Suntower Asking]

Hey lets not forget that Banks got screwed over with the SYN a few years back as well.

[TheMiz]

Hey lets not forget that Banks got screwed over with the SYN a few years back as well.




Banks and many others.

[bjlevine]

There must be some more to this story. I love Peter's work on the first two albums and the early live tracks. But Yes has had plenty of former members who have been featured on various band and solo projects since their departure, but nothing Yes related for Peter, including the infamous L.A. snubbing. Seeing as Steve has been able to work within Yes with other guitarists, there must be more to this story than has been made public.

[Roan's Lady]

There must be some more to this story. I love Peter's work on the first two albums and the early live tracks. But Yes has had plenty of former members who have been featured on various band and solo projects since their departure, but nothing Yes related for Peter, including the infamous L.A. snubbing. Seeing as Steve has been able to work within Yes with other guitarists, there must be more to this story than has been made public.

Nope, you know the whole story. Now shhh!!

[Full Tilt Boogie]

I don't know the complete history here, but as I understand it, the band left him.

The rest is opinion.

[smatt]

There once was a drummer named Bill,
Who played with finesse and great skill;
One day, full of ire,
He cold-cocked Chris Squire
For being an insuff'rable pill.


:dog: That's good Tas ;)

Alas, if you only really "knew" all those heros of your's :smurf: Your limric material would be vast :clap:

[smatt]

Let's not forget, there were no promises made on birth... There was no sign that said life would be fair.... Could Yes have been great with Peter, and no Howe..... Who knows..... Peter was and is a great player, and talent!

[Doctor Flang]

Hey lets not forget that Banks got screwed over with the SYN a few years back as well.

I just finished reading his autobiography "Beyond & Before" (highly recommended!) and he has every good reason to be bitter and grumpy. It's not just getting fired 40 years ago, but he was screwed quite badly by the music business for most of his life afterwards.
He says that years after he was sacked Yes changed his royalty rates so that got lesser than other members and Brian Lane. And sometimes he didn't even get those, like in case of "Yesterdays" of "Yesyears" compilations.

[bjlevine]

Yeah, but you still have to wonder what the real story was behind this, or was it really just a matter of the rest of the group wanting Steve Howe?

[Doctor Flang]

Yeah, but you still have to wonder what the real story was behind this, or was it really just a matter of the rest of the group wanting Steve Howe?

Bill Bruford says in Chris Welch's book:

"So Peter Banks had gone and the next thing you knew the keyboard player is going. Why? Because somebody has found this guy called Rick Wakeman. So...out with Tony Kaye!...If Mitch Mitchell had become available, i would probably have been history. It was like...get the best people in town."

I guess the answer is Yes.

[90125yes]

peter banks

good guitarist - but very negative on that YES dvd

i suppose he left and YES became big - not surprising that he is negative really

[90125yes]

YES would have not reached the stellar heights if banks had stayed

[Sharp on Attack]

Banks is just the original guitarist who simply couldn't improve much. he was at his creative peak during the early years of YES, the first 2 Flash albums are alright but the 3rd one and his solo album are really weak. Don't even get me started about Empire. He had given everything he had in 4 albums. I agree to what 90125yes just said. We wouldn't be talking here if YES had kept Banks and Kaye. I like their playing and I enjoy the early albums but these guys wouldn't have been able to cope creatively with works like Close To the Edge, Tales, Gates or Awaken.
Of course Banks is very bitter. He's always complaining about being fired.

[Sharp on Attack]

Just an afterthought, imagine if Deep Purple had kept Nick Simper and Rod Evans.

[Lifeseeker66]

Yeah I would say the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Is Banks bitter? It certainly seems so. I own his "Instinct" CD and the liner notes say that he decided not to have a singer "warbling" through his playing. Was this like his little way of getting back at Jon Anderson? LOL

But certainly his departure from the band could not have been the prettiest, as it wasn't even all that justifiable, except for the fact that Yes was beefing up it's musical prowess to the level of Squire/Bruford. The acquisitions of Wakeman and Howe definitely accomplished this.

[Lifeseeker66]

Unrelated question about Banks. I once read a music encyclopedia that seemed to be saying that Peter Banks belonged to a band called "After the Fire", who I thought at the time (1980's) put out the single Der Komissar. Can anyone confirm or disavow this?

[Lulu Mortice]

Unrelated question about Banks. I once read a music encyclopedia that seemed to be saying that Peter Banks belonged to a band called "After the Fire", who I thought at the time (1980's) put out the single Der Komissar. Can anyone confirm or disavow this?

Der Komissar was put out by some German guy called Falco.

[Sharp on Attack]

Der Komissar is a asong by German singer Falco. there may have been a lot of cover versions around the time of success for this song. I've never heard of Banks taking part to one of them. Does someone else know ?

[bjlevine]

Yeah I would say the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Is Banks bitter? It certainly seems so. I own his "Instinct" CD and the liner notes say that he decided not to have a singer "warbling" through his playing. Was this like his little way of getting back at Jon Anderson? LOL

But certainly his departure from the band could not have been the prettiest, as it wasn't even all that justifiable, except for the fact that Yes was beefing up it's musical prowess to the level of Squire/Bruford. The acquisitions of Wakeman and Howe definitely accomplished this.

Hard to nail down the issues with Banks. His work on the first two albums is very good (and his live playing was even better). He's not Steve Howe (though he seems to have a better voice). But he was unable to get along during The Syn reunion, and said some very derogatory things about them.

In short, I appreciate his history with the band, but I agree that Yes wouldn't have become what they are with him. As for Bill's comments, seeing as Yes didn't fire him, it speaks volumes that he was the best drummer available (and Jon and Chris continued to work with him, unlike with Peter Banks).

[TheMiz]

Unrelated question about Banks. I once read a music encyclopedia that seemed to be saying that Peter Banks belonged to a band called "After the Fire", who I thought at the time (1980's) put out the single Der Komissar. Can anyone confirm or disavow this?

That was a different Peter Banks.

[Lifeseeker66]

That was a different Peter Banks.

Get out! No wonder I was always confused about this! As to the others, I thought Falco was the "Puttin on the Ritz" guy? He couldn't have done a cool song like Der Komissar?

[TheMiz]

Get out! No wonder I was always confused about this! As to the others, I thought Falco was the "Puttin on the Ritz" guy? He couldn't have done a cool song like Der Komissar?


The PB in After the Fire changed his name to "Memory" Banks to not be confused with the ex-Yes guitarist.

[Billy Sherwood HQ]

I liked his gtr's for the first few YES records. I also thought he did a great job on the "Dark Side Of The Moon" tribute I did a few years back...

His signature on email is always the same. "the struggle continues". I wished he would change that to "I continue" who needs the struggling, life's too short.

[somissound]

Astral Traveler is a great Yes jam...

[profusion]

Banks is just the original guitarist who simply couldn't improve much.

You couldn't be more wrong. Banks, in fact, is the Yes guitarist who has grown and improved the most all these years. He grew musically from project to project in the '70s. And he is now far, far beyond where he was in the '70s. His modern style is more akin to Holdsworth (though not quite at that level technically, but no one is) than it is to what he did in Yes or Flash. Technically, he could probably wipe the floor on electric with Howe these days and could even give Rabin a run for his money. I know this because I've seen him play in person--as in, in my apartment.

I was fortunate to get to know Peter well some years ago when we lived in the same apartment building in Los Angeles--pure randomness at work. I didn't even know much about the first two Yes albums when I met him, but we had a lot of great times just talking about this and that.

Trust me when I say that he doesn't sit around obsessing about Yes, and he's not nearly as bitter as most of us would be in his position. He has a classic English dry wit that can be mistaken for bitterness--not unlike Bruford, actually. But he's quite open to talking about Yes and won't sugarcoat anything or go out of his way to be diplomatic. Why should he? He got screwed over. His good friend Tony Kaye got screwed over. Pete will tell you what's what about these things, and what he finds objectionable or farcical about Yes as an organization. He was deeply hurt when Yes fired him, I think, but he's done and seen a lot of things since then, and it really isn't the first thing on his mind. If you don't bring it up, he certainly isn't going to.

One thing that impressed me about Peter when I was around him was the utter lack of nostalgia or desire to make music like "the old days." He's probably more in tune with the coolest music out there today than 70% of this board (myself included).

[Wakey's #1 Fan]

Der Komissar was put out by some German guy called Falco.

Der Komissar is a asong by German singer Falco. there may have been a lot of cover versions around the time of success for this song. I've never heard of Banks taking part to one of them. Does someone else know ?
no, no...Falco was Austrian, not German :nono:

[Ron Drummond]

Peter's great and I was delighted that Steve Howe chose "Astral Traveler" to play on this tour and that he paid sincere homage to Banks both in his spoken intro and in his playing on the song. Howe has always respected the guitarist he replaced.

[gitsy]

Peter's great and I was delighted that Steve Howe chose "Astral Traveler" to play on this tour and that he paid sincere homage to Banks both in his spoken intro and in his playing on the song. Howe has always respected the guitarist he replaced.
That's interesting what did he say?

[90125yes]

Banks .. hmmm

he did the first two YES albums , more jazz than prog

glad stewe howe replaced him

steve howe , trevor rabin and billy sherwood any day

[the greenman]

Banks .. hmmm

he did the first two YES albums , more jazz than prog



I've only really gone back beyond The Yes Album quite recently, being a 'fan' of Howe's guitar styling, & kind of thinking the Yes sound really came together on that album, only to be perfected on Fragile.

I was quite impressed - I thought what I heard was quite similar in approach to Howe & yes, he has said generous things about Banks & the early work. I'm not sure Astral Traveller would have been my pick from that era, but hey..

To me, that 'jazz' approach to rock is what defines the early period of Yes. Be nice to hear more of it, with the benefit of their added experience & improved playing techniques

[90125yes]

greenman

thank heavens YES got Howe and they turned into Prog instead of Humprey Littleton's sunday afternoon jazz five down the tearooms

[profusion]

thank heavens YES got Howe and they turned into Prog instead of Humprey Littleton's sunday afternoon jazz five down the tearooms

Nonsense.

Have a listen to some of the live tracks from Peter's era of the band. They rocked very hard. Banks was influenced by Pete Townshend, and you can hear it all over the live stuff he did with Yes. The first two albums are very tame, by comparison. That's a sad thing to me, that the excitement of Yes Mk. I on stage was not captured in the studio.

Yes with Peter Banks had a 'walking on the wire' quality that they never totally regained once he left. It probably wouldn't have translated as well to the big arenas of America in the '70s, and it certainly wasn't where Jon ultimately wanted to go, but it was a very exciting brand of music.

Oh, and if you think jazz is music for the "tearoom", I've got a few John Coltrane albums you really need to listen to...

[Sharp on Attack]

Profusion I see what you mean...I know that recently Peter Banks has been working in improvisation based bands but I've never heard anything from it. However I've heard the 3 Flash albums, his solo album, the 3 Empire collections (I even listen to them sometimes) and his come back Instinct CD so I think I am aware of a large chunk of his creative output after YES. And I repeat myself, in terms of songwriting and guitar playing, he didn't have what it takes anymore to cope creatively with works like CttE, GoD the Tales tracks or Awaken. Instinct was boring and nowhere near Allan Holdsworth (I have and cherish all his cds). All the words I've read from him in liner notes and reviews have been aggressive and bitter and he did call Tony Kaye a "tart"

[Jonah]

Yes with Peter Banks had a 'walking on the wire' quality that they never totally regained once he left.

Agreed - just take a listen to the BBC Sessions album. Really exciting stuff. I have been to see Peter a couple of times in the last year or so with his improvisation band, Harmony in Diversity and he has been excellent. I really wish that he would do something that more people would get to see - he is a very underrated guitarist.

[profusion]

And I repeat myself, in terms of songwriting and guitar playing, he didn't have what it takes anymore to cope creatively with works like CttE, GoD the Tales tracks or Awaken. Instinct was boring and nowhere near Allan Holdsworth (I have and cherish all his cds). All the words I've read from him in liner notes and reviews have been aggressive and bitter and he did call Tony Kaye a "tart"

He was joking about Tony--they're very good friends, actually.

Fair enough about what you think of Pete's playing. Each to their own and all that. My comparison to Holdsworth was mainly to note Pete's move toward the legato, which was not a feature of his early playing. I prefer Instinct to any of Howe's solo albums, and I'd love to hear what Pete would do these days in a full band situation doing composed pieces. Supposedly he's been working to put something together along those lines. Harmony in Diversity does one of the Two Sides pieces, but I live on the wrong side of the pond to hear it. The HiD album is entirely improvised. Which is fine by me, actually--that's where my head's at these days anyway.

As for whether Pete could have handled the demands of playing the Yes epics, I think in terms of electric technique he could have. Howe doesn't do anything terribly frightening on electric, IMHO, at least technically. The thing with Howe is that his lines are so odd, that it takes some work to get your mind around them. The acoustic stuff is a different matter. Pete seems more interested in playing electric, and I don't know whether he ever really learned fingerstyle acoustic.

The composition question is an interesting one, but also a nonstarter. CTTE, Tales, Relayer, and GFTO would have been much different albums with Peter's creative input, obviously. Steve's guitar voice is, at its heart, not really a *rock* voice, while Pete's is fundamentally so. I think Pete would have pushed things in a more aggressive direction, which is probably why it never would have worked out. Jon's vision for Yes moved in a more ethereal direction, and I don't think they would have been compatible bandmates over the long term. And the singer usually gets his way... :D

[Sharp on Attack]

Hey, if Pete Banks ever releases an album with a full band, I'll probably buy it as I collect most things YES. But another instrumental album with backing synth and drum machines, like Instinct, no thanks.

[90125yes]

if banks was still in YES they would not have enjoyed the success they have had with the brilliant steve howe and trevor rabin and billy sherwood

he left after two records having made a great contribution and we are better leaving it at that

[90125yes]

Profusion

YES are YES not jazz

ok

[profusion]

Hey, if Pete Banks ever releases an album with a full band, I'll probably buy it as I collect most things YES. But another instrumental album with backing synth and drum machines, like Instinct, no thanks.

Have you heard his album with Harmony in Diversity, entitled Trying? It's an improvisational band. The recordings are a bit rough, to be honest, but very different than Pete's three 'home studio' albums. He shelved work years ago on what was to be the follow-up to Reduction, and he's focusing exclusively on band situations, though not in a traditional prog context. He's not really interested in revisiting old-school prog, AFAIK.

Profusion

YES are YES not jazz

ok

Yes was not jazz when Pete was in the band. And would not have turned into jazz had he remained in the band.

Interesting, though, that jazz music has influenced not just Banks, but also Howe, Bruford and Moraz. It's an important thread in the Yes sound.

[90125yes]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width="60%">Re: Banks: unfair treatment or sourpuss?
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Hey lets not forget that Banks got screwed over with the SYN a few years back as well.

______

he posted gripey notes on his website

i put banks down as a sourpuss

....

come on steve howe
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[TheMiz]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width="60%">Re: Banks: unfair treatment or sourpuss?
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Hey lets not forget that Banks got screwed over with the SYN a few years back as well.

______

he posted gripey notes on his website

i put banks down as a sourpuss

....

come on steve howe
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->




Which in time proved spot on.

[profusion]

Which in time proved spot on.

In fact, it appears that Peter got out of that mess relatively unscathed, compared to some of the others who got involved with Nardelli.

The new tracks on the Original Syn compilation do make me wish that Peter could get a proper band into the studio. He is criminally under-recorded.

[Sonny G]

I really like some of the stuff Banks did on the first two YES records. A band is a strange thing, if you butt heads and don't want to go along with the main core of the group then no matter how talented you are there will always be a parting of the ways. In YES the core has almost always been Jon and Chris, if your not able to have a pleasurable working relationship with them you better keep your bags packed.

[bjlevine]

It would have been interesting to live in an alternate universe (well, yeah...) and see what The Yes Album might have been like had Peter Banks still been the guitarist. No, I don't think he was at the same level as a musician or writer as Steve Howe, but he was head and shoulders above most other guitarists of his day in terms of creativity. And he was right in that Time and a Word would have been a much better record without the orchestrations (just listen to any of the live versions).

[David Speight]

I think, having had the opportunity to play alongside PB, I've been able to avoid discussion of his past, his technical ability, suitability for Yes, his comparative score on the "Steve Howe Scale", etc.) (Don't get me wrong, I understand where you're all coming from) I'm just saying that having 1st hand experience of hearing PB doing what he does so well, I can testify how litttle of his time is really spent on events of 40 years ago. I don't believe you'd find him being perpetually bitter, but you would see an excellent sense of humour, and the ability to pull something good out of thin air, something that you can't quite categorise...or compare with others.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
(Check out the "Pete Banks Live" audio clip: www.myspace.com/davidspeight (http://www.myspace.com/davidspeight) )<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
DS<o:p></o:p>

[TheMiz]

I think, having had the opportunity to play alongside PB, I've been able to avoid discussion of his past, his technical ability, suitability for Yes, his comparative score on the "Steve Howe Scale", etc.) (Don't get me wrong, I understand where you're all coming from) I'm just saying that having 1st hand experience of hearing PB doing what he does so well, I can testify how litttle of his time is really spent on events of 40 years ago. I don't believe you'd find him being perpetually bitter, but you would see an excellent sense of humour, and the ability to pull something good out of thin air, something that you can't quite categorise...or compare with others.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
(Check out the "Pete Banks Live" audio clip: www.myspace.com/davidspeight (http://www.myspace.com/davidspeight) )<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
DS<o:p></o:p>

Dave the color of the font sucks for us who use a white screen background.
But good to have you here.

There is also a live Harmony in Divisity track on
http://www.myspace.com/guitaristpeterbanks

It is track six

[Bo Locks]

If Yes hadn't gone through the process of the first two albums we would never have had The Yes Album. Very few bands of the time could walk into a studio and create a "classic" first time around. Peter must take full credit for being a founding member and for accelerating the band to the momentum that would carry them on through everything to the present.

How many forty year old bands do we have? The Stones, The Who, The Moodys, Krim Kingston? Not Floyd anymore.

[90125yes]

good comment there bo locks

[Whitefish]

Why was he not on the Union tour?

[profusion]

Why was he not on the Union tour?

Oh geez, here we go again... :)

Just kidding. The Union band was only a combo of the ABWH and YesWest lineups, so Peter wouldn't have been a part of that in any event. However, he was living in Los Angeles at the time and received an invitation to join the band on stage during the encore at the band's stop at the Forum in Inglewood. He showed up but was told at the last moment before the show that he couldn't go on stage. To this day, I don't believe he has received an explanation or any indication as to who in the band objected to his being on stage. The early rumors centered on Howe, but Steve has vehemently denied it. We'll probably never know exactly what happened.

More recently, the idea has been floated to do a one-off show, probably in London, featuring the entire Yes family together on stage at once. Given the scheduling nightmare that would involve, I doubt it will ever happen, unfortunately.

[90125yes]

Originally Posted by Whitefish http://www.yesfans.com/bluefusion/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.yesfans.com/showthread.php?p=1655372#post1655372)
Why was he not on the Union tour

___

he has not been in the band since 1970

sadly it would have never worked

[xlink_nz]

years back when I had a guitar tutor [who did pro session work] he rated Peter Banks as much as Steve Howe in regards to actual guitar playing in YES

[90125yes]

years back when I had a guitar tutor [who did pro session work] he rated Peter Banks as much as Steve Howe in regards to actual guitar playing in YES

____

obiously the guitar tutor had only heared the first two yes albums !!!

[bjlevine]

Not many people would rate Peter in the same league as Steve, though Peter is a terrific player and a better vocalist.

[xlink_nz]

obiously the guitar tutor had only heared the first two yes albums !!!

LOL obviously !

Not many people would rate Peter in the same league as Steve, though Peter is a terrific player and a better vocalist.

I think the comparision was one of actual [electric] guitar ability clearly Howe also brought considerable writing/composition skills [at least in the 70's] and versitility. We will never know the influence of Banks in contribution to writing etc

[90125yes]

... but in answer to this thread i don't think banks has been treated unfairly

it was all part of YES's development bringing steve in , bringing wakeman in , bringing moraz in etc etc

it would be good in the future if YES did do one or two one off reunion shows using previous members , if Banks could guest .. it would restore the balance and opinion of things ...

i hope it is possible

after all YES brought bruford and kaye back

so it would be nice for banks to guest at future live shows and do stuff off the first two albums .....

[luckeydoug1]

Not many people would rate Peter in the same league as Steve, though Peter is a terrific player and a better vocalist.I certainly do, and in fact, much prefer Peter's guitar playing.

[Doctor Flang]

... but in answer to this thread i don't think banks has been treated unfairly

it was all part of YES's development bringing steve in , bringing wakeman in , bringing moraz in etc etc

It was not that Peter was kicked out, but he was treated pretty unfairly afterwards. The business side of Yes must be quite strange place. For example Brian Lane managed to get royalties from the first two albums, whereas Peter Banks never got any until much later on. Tony Kaye had same kind of problems. And when Bill Bruford announced he was leaving he was forced to sign a document where he gave 50% of his royalties of Close to the Edge to Alan White.

[90125yes]

It was not that Peter was kicked out, but he was treated pretty unfairly afterwards. The business side of Yes must be quite strange place. For example Brian Lane managed to get royalties from the first two albums, whereas Peter Banks never got any until much later on. Tony Kaye had same kind of problems. And when Bill Bruford announced he was leaving he was forced to sign a document where he gave 50% of his royalties of Close to the Edge to Alan White.

____

interesting

i did not know all the detail of this

but one thing i do know i am glad that YES got steve howe

[Doctor Flang]

____

interesting

i did not know all the detail of this

but one thing i do know i am glad that YES got steve howe

Me too. But i also love Time and a Word and 90125. BTW i recommend Chris Welch's book Close to the Edge.

[Wil]

Strangely enough, Peter Banks is an ex-Yesser who, until a few short months ago, had never even entered my radar (apart from a single track on the Solo Family compliation). Then, while touring the net, I happened across some good reviews for his Reduction album and a 'so cheap they were almost giving it away' eBay purchase later I was absolutely hooked! His solo stuff is abso-blimmin'-loutely fantastic; full of imagination and energy. I went out and hunted down the Flash albums and they're great, too. What's the point of comparing him to Steve? They're both very different. In my fantasy line-up mind I'd have loved to hear both him and Steve going head-to-head on Sound Chaser. It would've been the cosmic guitar smash-up of all-time!

I couldn't give a damn about egos or temperament. In my mind Peter Banks now = great listening!

[profusion]

Strangely enough, Peter Banks is an ex-Yesser who, until a few short months ago, had never even entered my radar (apart from a single track on the Solo Family compliation). Then, while touring the net, I happened across some good reviews for his Reduction album and a 'so cheap they were almost giving it away' eBay purchase later I was absolutely hooked! His solo stuff is abso-blimmin'-loutely fantastic; full of imagination and energy. I went out and hunted down the Flash albums and they're great, too. What's the point of comparing him to Steve? They're both very different. In my fantasy line-up mind I'd have loved to hear both him and Steve going head-to-head on Sound Chaser. It would've been the cosmic guitar smash-up of all-time!

:beerchugr:

That's exactly it. It's basically pointless to speculate what various Yes albums would have sounded like with Pete playing on them, because his musical ideas are so diametrically opposed to Jon's, that his tenure couldn't possibly have lasted much longer than it did. The Yes Album and the Flash albums have a lot in common, but everything after that is very different than Peter's style. He's more of a 'rocker' and an improviser, and not so into the big epic thing.

[Bo Locks]

It's basically pointless to speculate...By a 'logical leap' some on this board are quite seriously capable of, it's basically pointless having this forum and yakking about stuff we can't change. Yes?

[nitram]

I love the live version of No Opp.Necessary..early Yes had some garage/punk like energy to it,like some of those jammin spots on Time & A Word..damn orchestra puts a damper on that album,needs a "Let It Be,Naked"-type release..I like Banks on Something's Coming,Astral Traveler,...i'll have to check out some of his solo stuff..what's the big deal with letting Peter on stage though,---- it's music,have fun,stop being uptight careerists.. didn't they once sing about Ego-Let Go or something like that?

[90125yes]

we have been asked a question


unfair treatment or sourpuss

answer : after all this time :

who cares

but we can form some opinion ??

banks was critical of YES around union when he did not perform
and he posted some unfair stuff about the syn reunion on his webiste at the time

all i hear is negative stuff from him

so can he be postive about anything to give us a different opinion ??

[gitsy]

Yes he did post an open letter re The Syn which you say was unfair stuff.

Was it unfair?

I don't know but I do know that that incarnation of The Syn ended up with all members leaving with only he who must not be mentioned on this site remaining. Even Chris Squire posted on his site to not buy Armistice Day as it was released against his wishes.

[90125yes]

Yes he did post an open letter re The Syn which you say was unfair stuff.

Was it unfair?

I don't know but I do know that that incarnation of The Syn ended up with all members leaving with only he who must not be mentioned on this site remaining. Even Chris Squire posted on his site to not buy Armistice Day as it was released against his wishes.

___

it was not about armistice day

it was an earlier posting on his website about getting the band together and there were problems etc etc

water under the bridge

[TheMiz]

we have been asked a question


unfair treatment or sourpuss

answer : after all this time :

who cares

but we can form some opinion ??


and he posted some unfair stuff about the syn reunion on his webiste at the time

all i hear is negative stuff from him

so can he be postive about anything to give us a different opinion ??

So what was unfair ?

[gitsy]

___

it was not about armistice day

it was an earlier posting on his website about getting the band together and there were problems etc etc

water under the bridge

Sorry for the confusion I meant that Squire was unhappy about armistice day. I know that Banks open letter was about the time the Syn got back together prior to Squire rejoining.

I was trying to make the point that a lot of people have moved on from the Syn with a negative point of view which included Banks. Therefore do we know what he was saying was unfair?

[90125yes]

my point is that my impression of banks is that he is negative towards YES rather that postive !!!

obiously the author of this thread sits on either side of the fence

either unfair or sourpuuss ???

[rmig68]

I think it's a damn shame that he was never included, or for whatever reason, never made it to Union, or any incarnation of Yes more recently. Trying to gauge whether he is/was a sourpuss within Yes is almost unfair.

Seems to me that a lot of bands have a core making most decisions and in that context (even some of the piddly bands I've played in) it's so goddamn difficult to get an idea across. I can't even imagine it in the sh*tstorm that appears to be the creative process/ decision making branch within Yes at any given moment. Can you imagine (no pun intended) being in the middle during the Big Generator era? Trevor, Jon, Trevor, Chris. Cripes!

Anyway, ideas are shot down "just because." I shouldn't assume that, but I've seen it so much in my little world that it has to be an enormous wall at the level of Yes. Add in songwriting fees and naming rights and it's just too much, and while early in Yes it seemed to promote good writing, I just think all that slag over the years makes things unfocused and is actually a nasty barrier to getting great music created.

That sucks, but anyway, Peter, try to use a little bit of that Yes "in" and get with something that offers some kind of exposure. Seems he's always working in the shadows. Needs to network more or something, and get with some decent PR.

I've always liked his playing.

[Jonah]

Peter is never one to hold back on an opinion - I believe he is a truly a guy that says things as he sees them.

The important thing is that he is a fine guitar player and composer who really should be getting more exposure.

[90125yes]

Peter is never one to hold back on an opinion - I believe he is a truly a guy that says things as he sees them.

The important thing is that he is a fine guitar player and composer who really should be getting more exposure.

_____

well summed up

we also have a uk thread for yes fans - you will be welcome there

[bjlevine]

Like most things in life, each person involved will have a different perspective, with none of them being totally correct (save the goldfish). I know that Banks wasn't happy with the orchestrations added to Time and a Word, and after hearing the live versions of these songs, I have to agree with him. But I also think that Jon and Chris were determined to add Steve to the band. As for the regrouping of The Syn, from what I could gather, Peter just didn't feel that the other members were up to par (this is prior to Chris joining). Having heard the new track on Original Syn, I have to agree with him.

Suffice to say, I love Peter's work in early Yes, as well as other things he has done. It would've been nice to see him back at some point (the Union tour would've been nice). But its nearly 40 years later, and he and we all move on.

[BrianD]

I posted this as part of a post on another thread but its worth repeating here.

In a March 1973 interview in Australia Jon was asked about Peter Banks. He described Banks as being 'slightly lazy and a bit difficult to work with, as a band we thought that we shouldn't have to wait for different people's trips to get together. He was a bit silly about things like he would turn his back on you when you were trying to explain something about music. So we decided to get somebody else and we were very lucky to find Steve...'

[profusion]

my point is that my impression of banks is that he is negative towards YES rather that postive !!!

obiously the author of this thread sits on either side of the fence

either unfair or sourpuuss ???

What, exactly, in 2009 does Peter have to be positive about in regards to Yes? Memories of many a gig around London, to be sure. But beyond that, his Yes experience consisted of substantial poverty, a couple of poorly recorded albums that didn't do the band any justice, being discarded in a rude manner, and being denied proper payment for over 20 years.

He has often spoken fondly about the musical accomplishments of Yes during his tenure, but there really isn't much positive he could say beyond that from his perspective, is there? He didn't like the direction Yes went after he left, but he has spoken highly of both Drama and 90125.

As to Pete's open letter about the Syn, it might not have been the best PR move for him, but it was honest. Which is more than one can say about any other aspect of the Syn debacle. Pete believed the whole deal was supposed to be a pleasant little affair, sort of like a high-school reunion. Redo a couple of the old songs and have some fun with it. But then Nardelli started having delusions of grandeur, and we all saw where that led.

[90125yes]

an interesting read in the YES ina word boxset is that peter was left out of the union line up at the last minute

has anyone got any futher info on this ?

[90125yes]

By a 'logical leap' some on this board are quite seriously capable of, it's basically pointless having this forum and yakking about stuff we can't change. Yes?

____

can you not say anything constructive ??

[90125yes]

I posted this as part of a post on another thread but its worth repeating here.

In a March 1973 interview in Australia Jon was asked about Peter Banks. He described Banks as being 'slightly lazy and a bit difficult to work with, as a band we thought that we shouldn't have to wait for different people's trips to get together. He was a bit silly about things like he would turn his back on you when you were trying to explain something about music. So we decided to get somebody else and we were very lucky to find Steve...'

__

interesting points

[Doctor Flang]

an interesting read in the YES ina word boxset is that peter was left out of the union line up at the last minute

has anyone got any futher info on this ?

Peter was never going to be part of the Union live line up. But he was asked if he would like to play guitar on the encores on the Los Angeles gig. He turned up but was turned away at the last minute. There were rumours that Steve Howe didn't want him there but Steve has denied it.

[Whitefish]

Here is Peter's side of the story of the Union tour:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bAfZIIbgSE

[90125yes]

Here is Peter's side of the story of the Union tour:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bAfZIIbgSE

thanks - i will have a listen