Prog. and Punk ?

[smatt]

While fliipping channels today, I came to VH1 and they were doing a behind the music on Green Day. While watching something they said was very interesting to me. They started in San Fransisco punk scene. When they became succesful and signed with a major label they were called sellouts by there oldtime punk fan base. They said that it was the mainstream record business is what TRUE punks were against. The band on the other hand said hey, we're making music that we want to make we're having fun doing it, screw off. This being said, the interesting question that came to mind is that at least in the beggining prog. rock was built by people that were decidedly against commercialism. The control of the musical output of a person or band by record companies, producers, critics, ect. also the lack of so called hooks in the songs such as pop sounding guitar riffs or vocal lines. It appears that is exactly what punk is about with exception to punks anarchy attitude, the basis for the basis for the style of music is to be diferent or shocking. I do remeber, I think it was Malcolm Mclaren, or maybe John Lydon saying that what punk was really all about was a reaction to progs. pretentiousness. This is an interesting thing to me considering that they really seem to have a few things
in common. Individuality, total artist control, the screw the critics attitude, and we're making music that WE want to make, regardless of what anybody says or thinks!


Matt

[luckyseven]

I saw this episode today as well, and found it very interesting. Although to be fair, I like most of these shows. ;) What caught my ear was one guy who is part of the punk scene, I think he was a writer for a punk magazine, was critisizing teenagers who bought Dookie when it came out, saying something like these kids who don't know any better are defining punk by buying this album- where Dookie is probably the only "punk" album they own.

I remember buying this album when it came out, it sounded different and cool to me, and I liked it. At that point in time I was not particularly aware of all the different genres of music, so I was not getting the "wrong" idea of what punk was. I was not even aware that Green Day was punk. I just thought it sounded good. I'm guessing that many other youths were the same way.

[smatt]

That guy was a jerk! Who is he to say what punk is or isn't? That's what I thought was so interesting is that these guys are ripping on Green Day just for becoming succesful. So what they are saying is that you can't be punk and sell more than 25,000 album or eat anything but trash? That doesn't jibe, not long ago I rented documentry on the Sex Pistols, it was really interesting to hear what these guys had to say. I also saw them, believe it or not, a few yyears back on their reunion tour a friend worked for Capitol at the time and got free tickets. You talk about a diverse crowd wow. I guess alot of punks grew up, went on to college and got real jobs. That's alot more than I can say for alot of so called rockers. I also bought Dookie when it came out. It's not a bad album, sound awesome really loud when your really drunk!:cheers:

Something that really bothers me is the way music is classified into different genres. It caters to the attitude that just because you like one kind of music you can't like another. As far as Green Day being punk, it is pretty lite, but it never the less is a punk influenced. What really counts is if it makes you feel good when you listen to it, then:band:


Matt

[luckyseven]

Yes, that is exactly what I thought. The guy was definitely giving the impression that a punk band is not a Real punk band if they are successful. That is ridiculous. I think he wants the music to remain a private society. Green Day is punk lite perhaps, but so what right? It can rock.

I agree about classifying music. One good thing about music today I think, is many styles are beginning to meld together, or are a new sound completely, and it is getting harder to classify music into different established genres. :cool: But new ones will probably be invented just so the music can be classified. :rolleyes:

[haroldthebarrel]

Actually, I was into the Punk scene for years and helped put on shows and keep the scene alive in the twin cities. And I will say that if you think Green Day is Punk, you've never heard punk. Punk is such a subculture and no one knows about it. Right now Punk is pretty much dead because so many fakes are out there posing as punks to make $$$$. Punks first code of ethic is and always has been DIY. Do it yourself, therefore no record labels unless they are punk-owned or non-profit organizations. I'm serious.

Also, punk bands play in basements and small venues in order to make it all ages. The most anti-punk thing ever is a 21 and up show. Green Day played a garage in Savage MN one summer and they played the Civic center the next year. I don't know if they are definitely NOT Punk, but compard to what's out there on say Profane Existence records or Havoc Records, they are just as pop as Hanson. Same goes for Blink 182. You would all be VERY suprised at what the REAL punk scene is, squatters, mohawked gutter-punks, etc... Shows are giant parties that are always illegal, etc....To get a grasp, look into bands like:

Code 13
Destroy
Aus Rotten
Defiance
Police Bastard
Anarcrust
Mob 47
Anti-Cimex
Negative Approach
Minor Threat
State of Fear
Doom
Misfits (danzig era)
Assuck
Unhinged
Hiatus
Assrash
DRI (old stuff)
The Freeze
Infest

There are so many.
I got REALLY into the REAL punk scene for years and booked some bands that are now famous as sell-out metal bands and stuff, like Slipknot, Blink 182, Promise Ring, System of a down, etc...
I was constantly challeged with the DIY thing and the whole fact that every punker was just a lazy slob using anarchy as an excuse to not hold a job, and thats why I left this scene behind.

Plus they all hate Yes, so me being at a 'Man is the Bastard' show wearing a Yes shirt would NOT go over well. In many ways this scene is the last true music scene left, due to the spirit of the whole thing and the solodarity, but the majority of the bands suck and that's why I am not there anymore.
I guess you had to be there to understand, but it was an important part of my life for a while, so when I hear people tell me that Green Day and the like are punk, I laugh, because Green Day would be scared to even walk into a real punk-rock show. I know this for a fact. I could go on forever! So basically when you hear all that talk about what's punk or what's not or whtever, know that the people there are people that live their lives to put on Punk shows in thier basements, making flyers, shirts, etc... for no profit because they love the ideas of punk, and the music and the bands, where the famous bands do it for money.
Another point:
Hippies and Punks hate each other, but I notice so many similarities between the two, just as the prog connection was pointed out. I noticed alot of hippocrisy so that was another contributing factor to why I left......Oh yeah and me and my friends got drunk one night and started a riot that ended up injuring officers and destroying a little club that we were running, therefore, destroying the punk scene, it barely recovered, but we were kind of like....were outta here! SO there are MANY reasons I am now out of that scene, maturity has come to me a bit more, and so has knowledge of music, making Punk just plain boring to me these days...unless it's Samhain or the Misfits.

SOrry to ramble, but I can't hold back when people start theorizing about Punk-rock, because to REALLY know about it you have to be at these underground shows and stuff, because what you read or hear from Penelope Spheeris, or Billie-joe is not what it ever was or ever will be.
_joe

[smatt]

I don't think that Green Day is REAL punk. I do think it's influenced by punk though. The REAL punk scene has been dead for years. I had some pretty hard core friends here in the LA area back in the very early 80's. They were into bands like Dead Kennedys, Black Flag, Circle Jerks. Most of them eventually grew out of the whole anarchy thing though. Most of the punk thing is just a cop out anyway. It was a bunch of young kids frustrated with being told what to do, what to like and so on. They struck out in the most violent, attention getting way they possibly could. They did whatever they could to be different from the average person and whatever they could to piss off establisment. Kind of like socalled rockers. That was my whole point! There are so many things that both groups have in common, yet neither really see it. And, yes the punks did hate the rockers in the LA scene too and vise versa. Although I did attend a few shows in some little **** hole clubs in east LA, and at the time had very long hair, I never had any problems in fact alot of the time I had a blast. Your're right it was one big party!


Matt